Tubes and the economy aren't the only thing we are up against.

[Shap]

For those of you that don't think Social Media and Online Gaming are cutting into our market share. Check this out

http://arstechnica.com/web/news/2010...ars?old=mobile

[BlackCrayon]

were the majority of these people ever surfing porn sites though?

[Paul Markham]

Maybe they should ban all other sites other than porn paysites so we can make a living. We don't seem bright enough to do it otherwise. </sarcasm>

Shap it's competitive world out there and you have to compete to survive. Porn paysites need to start adapting to the times and improving their members areas, if they're to win back customers.

[PR_Dave]

Takes most dudes 1-5 mins to jerk off so that leaves plenty of time for FaceBook and PartyPoker.

I think it has always been this way.

[Agent 488]

i agree. i check out babes on fb and pof all the time. i know dudes who twist one off to fb babes. this the popularity of gf sites.

[Agent 488]

email will move over to the asian model of usage, where texting will be the prime social use and email used for formal communication like a print letter.

[Pipecrew]

fortunately hornyness is a gift from mother nature that will never go away.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

were the majority of these people ever surfing porn sites though?

anything can happen

[Shap]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Maybe they should ban all other sites other than porn paysites so we can make a living. We don't seem bright enough to do it otherwise. </sarcasm>

Shap it's competitive world out there and you have to compete to survive. Porn paysites need to start adapting to the times and improving their members areas, if they're to win back customers.

i know that. I've been saying social media and online gaming has hurt our industry for some time. In fact tgps started to drop when they picked up (not when tubes picked up).

[Shap]

Originally Posted by PR_Dave

Takes most dudes 1-5 mins to jerk off so that leaves plenty of time for FaceBook and PartyPoker.

I think it has always been this way.

True but the other sites weren't around back then.

[Shap]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

were the majority of these people ever surfing porn sites though?

I think if you look at the demographics of those sites you'd be hard pressed to proof they weren't surfing porn sites.

[AlCapone]

In the "Golden Days" of adult, there simply wasn't as much to do online. Adult was first out of the gate, but I don't believe that the majority of people are "pervs" by nature and they were looking for other things to do online besides look at porn.

Social Networks, Games, Dating Sites, Blogs, Hulu etc... All of these things are just providing new things for the end-user to do. They aren't taking anything from adult. They are simply providing what the masses want. Something I think adult has long since forgotten. Who really wants to look at and pay for 20 porn site memberships at $29.95 from shady companies that are all pushing crappy Gonzo bullshit anyway?

Let's face it, adult is tired and has lost it's luster. Nobody seems to be trying to advance it anyhow. Adult used to push and lead technology, now, adult is just watching mainstream and trying to copy it.

Good luck to everyone!

[TheDoc]

Games without question suck people in, for endless hours... it takes minutes to drop a load in a shower and be back in time for the quest to start. Add in texting/social networks on the phone, they aren't on the pc Internet unless they're looking for something they already know they want. Just soooo much to do online today, it's not just porn anymore, they know exactly what they want and that's all they do.

[ottopottomouse]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Games without question suck people in, for endless hours...

anything that is strategy based and runs in real time can occupy your mind 24hours a day and if you are good at it is very hard to break away from (can I have my 3 years back? )

[xNetworx]

Seems like everybody under 25 thinks porn is free now

[CIVMatt]

Originally Posted by pimpporn

Seems like everybody under 25 thinks porn is free now

Because it is.. nobody cares about a girl simply showing her boobs anymore, get over it

[NewbieNudes]

Totally agree with Shap here.

I recall we even polled our members once, and it was clearly evident facebook was cutting into their NN surfing time.

Before Facebook and the like - there was nothing interesting on the net to do except watch porn.

It's a prefect storm..

Tubes
Facebook <- over an hour per day for most people.
GFC
Visa being pricks

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by Shap

For those of you that don't think Social Media and Online Gaming are cutting into our market share. Check this out

Not possible.

will76 said so in multiple thread to the contrary.

[halfpint]

Originally Posted by AlCapone

In the "Golden Days" of adult, there simply wasn't as much to do online. Adult was first out of the gate, but I don't believe that the majority of people are "pervs" by nature and they were looking for other things to do online besides look at porn.

Social Networks, Games, Dating Sites, Blogs, Hulu etc... All of these things are just providing new things for the end-user to do. They aren't taking anything from adult. They are simply providing what the masses want. Something I think adult has long since forgotten. Who really wants to look at and pay for 20 porn site memberships at $29.95 from shady companies that are all pushing crappy Gonzo bullshit anyway?

Let's face it, adult is tired and has lost it's luster. Nobody seems to be trying to advance it anyhow. Adult used to push and lead technology, now, adult is just watching mainstream and trying to copy it.

Good luck to everyone!

Gotta agree with that

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by Shap

For those of you that don't think Social Media and Online Gaming are cutting into our market share. Check this out

http://arstechnica.com/web/news/2010...ars?old=mobile

Like most stats...that takes into account ALL people. Including kids and teenagers. When you have teenagers that spend 8 to 10 hours a day at facebook, chat rooms, and playing games and then you average that time in with a guy jerking off in 5 minutes on a porn site...it tends to skew the numbers.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Not possible.

will76 said so in multiple thread to the contrary.

[crazytrini85]

It all chips away at us. It's not any one thing, it's everything. We've not been attacked by just one or two bees, we're being attacked by the entire nest and every nest in the surrounding area.

Social media + all the free porn you could ever want + the sense of entitlement to free porn (and free everything else online) + piracy + slow economy + everything is saturated + loss of millions of credit cards + online games + online dating + shitty porn sites + fucking your members around + carding + anything else you want to add to it = SERIOUS DECLINE OF THE PORN BUSINESS.

I don't know whats going to happen but I know most of us here wont be here when the dust settles. There is no light at the end of this tunnel for most of us.

[crazytrini85]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

...and improving their members areas, if they're to win back customers.

It's over. You've lost them. They are not coming back. You can not close Pandora's box once it's been opened, and no cats are going back into The Bag.

It's hold on, adapt however you can and try to morph into something that will allow you to continue to profit.

[xNetworx]

Originally Posted by CIVMatt

Because it is.. nobody cares about a girl simply showing her boobs anymore, get over it

Get over what? I was stating an observation. Whats with that avatar? U shit urself?

[PR_Glen]

social networking and gaming sites are like network tv... we are not in competition with them. People get bored of watching friends and CSI then they want to see someone like Rachel naked and fucking.... or maybe David Caruso? That's when they change it to the porn network or load up one of our sites. ;)

[Mutt]

Paul seriously shut up about members areas - you're out of touch, you're referring to the crappy members areas the big PPS programs had years and years ago. it's not relevant anymore, members areas these days for the most part are top notch, most big programs with exclusive content offer their entire network of exclusive content sites for one price.
people aren't staying away because of shitty members areas. the shady billing practices for 15 years have definitely sworn many people off joining another adult site. who would join an adult paysite after experimenting with a 'free trial - your credit card will never be billed' and then ending up with 300 dollars on your credit card statement.

there is absolutely nothing anybody can do with a members area to get 20 something's to pay for porn, or anything else for that matter online, short of sending porn stars directly to their homes to fuck them.

i'm glad i'm in a niche that appeals to old bastards, there's still some life left in it because of that.

[gleem]

Originally Posted by NewbieNudes

Totally agree with Shap here.

Tubes
Facebook <- over an hour per day for most people.
GFC
Visa being pricks

Good list, lemme mod:

Tubes
Facebook <- over an hour per day for most people.
GFC
Visa being pricks <-- really kicked off the free porn craze when they killed the AVS model.

[FetishWeb]

Originally Posted by pimpporn

Seems like everybody under 25 thinks porn is free now

I'd say its more like everybody under 30.

But speaking more to this point, IMHO, the sheer amount of "homemade" or self made porn online now created by this "online" generation is a far bigger threat to the perceived value of porn than anything else.

Call me an old dinosaur but I never thought people would stop paying to see drop dead gorgeous models get their asses turned inside out and pro-lapsed for coke money.

People now seem more likely to pay to see the 5/10 girl nextdoor give a bad blowjob (ie, ex-gf sites clips4sale, etc).

Strange times.

[$5 submissions]

Interesting you mention this article. Last week, my own network and my largest clients' networks reached a new milestone: Most traffic now comes from FACEBOOK's "like" and "share" function.

[$5 submissions]

If anyone needs Facebook "likes" hit me up

[Relentless]

Measuring time spent will never give you a useful metric. Videogamers download whole sites in the background using a download manager while playing video games in the active window and then look through the videos after their relic raids end. Bandwidth connections are now so vast that consumers rarely access only one kind of content at a time. I'm downloading a song from iTunes as I type this btw...

A comparison of dollars spent per category would be a lot more helpful.

[mynameisjim]

We had this argument a while back in a several page thread.

Nobody is jerking off to pictures on Facebook, and if they are they are such a hopeless pervert they must also be jerking off to real porn almost non-stop. So I don't buy that argument.

Not to mention, it doesn't take into account the dwindling amount of time people spend watching TV and also that most time spent on Facebook is done during work hours, when people get home they do their more unsavory surfing.

Also, the average time spent on Facebook is 14 minutes per day. That leaves plenty of time for virtually anything else. There is no doubt Facebook is popular and I use it everyday, but the notion that people spend hours on it is just not true. People log in from their computer or phone, check it for several minutes, click "like" then move on.

[FetishWeb]

Originally Posted by $5 submissions

Interesting you mention this article. Last week, my own network and my largest clients' networks reached a new milestone: Most traffic now comes from FACEBOOK's "like" and "share" function.

With all the new programming languages, online tools, compelling open source software, all the cheap server CPU/bandwidth the success of an online endeavor seems to completely rely on endlessly spamming facebook and/or twitter.

Seems like the polar opposite of adaptation.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Shap

i know that. I've been saying social media and online gaming has hurt our industry for some time. In fact tgps started to drop when they picked up (not when tubes picked up).

IMO Sharky said it all in his online interview.

It's about providing a user experience the buyers will respond to and keep him coming back.. If you're going after the 10 minute jerk off market you're fucked today. And if paysites charging $30 can't provide a way superior user experience for $30 a month than a free site provides.

THAT'S THE FAULT OF THE PAYSITES AND NO ONE ELSE.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Mutt

Paul seriously shut up about members areas - you're out of touch, you're referring to the crappy members areas the big PPS programs had years and years ago. it's not relevant anymore, members areas these days for the most part are top notch, most big programs with exclusive content offer their entire network of exclusive content sites for one price.
people aren't staying away because of shitty members areas. the shady billing practices for 15 years have definitely sworn many people off joining another adult site. who would join an adult paysite after experimenting with a 'free trial - your credit card will never be billed' and then ending up with 300 dollars on your credit card statement.

there is absolutely nothing anybody can do with a members area to get 20 something's to pay for porn, or anything else for that matter online, short of sending porn stars directly to their homes to fuck them.

i'm glad i'm in a niche that appeals to old bastards, there's still some life left in it because of that.

Originally Posted by crazytrini85

It's over. You've lost them. They are not coming back. You can not close Pandora's box once it's been opened, and no cats are going back into The Bag.

It's hold on, adapt however you can and try to morph into something that will allow you to continue to profit.

If the online industry is to prosper it needs people who can think beyond members areas as a place to download videos. No matter how good the quality of the video is the Tubes have proved it does not matter to those who spend money. And it's those who spend money that pay for Tubes. Not free surfers.

Even big sites with members areas stuffed full of HD videos are suffering and will continue to suffer until the industry adapts to 2010.

Yes shady billing practices are hurting us. Yes crappy members areas in the past and today hurt us.

But the biggest thing to hurt us is we are still stuck with the idea customers will pay to download videos like they did in the past. Free video content is here to stay and someone selling only video content is fighting an uphill battle.

Pointing a finger at the problems don't make them go away.

Coming up with solutions does.

[Brad Mitchell]

Good link, no doubt that is accurate information on consumer time and $ spent online. It's quite amazing to me that the bulk of the game logic (outside of the socially dynamic aspect) isn't a whole lot different now on these popular FaceBook games than it was in 1989 with originals like SimCity and Wizardry.

[PR_Glen]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

It's about providing a user experience the buyers will respond to and keep him coming back.. If you're going after the 10 minute jerk off market you're fucked today. And if paysites charging $30 can't provide a way superior user experience for $30 a month than a free site provides.

THAT'S THE FAULT OF THE PAYSITES AND NO ONE ELSE.

it's a fucking impulse buy!!!! we're not selling cars or newspapers!!

do you give a shit if your chocolate bar has enough nuts and caramel in it? do you care if what kind of milk they are using? FUCK NO! You buy it because you are hungry and you need something to tide you over... that's what we are selling here... They come to our sites, spend their 'ten minutes' then leave, when they want more they come back. If our business was revolved around ONLY people who want to spend hours on our sites instead sales would be a bit lower i'm sure ;)

[Mutt]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

If the online industry is to prosper it needs people who can think beyond members areas as a place to download videos. No matter how good the quality of the video is the Tubes have proved it does not matter to those who spend money. And it's those who spend money that pay for Tubes. Not free surfers.

Even big sites with members areas stuffed full of HD videos are suffering and will continue to suffer until the industry adapts to 2010.

Yes shady billing practices are hurting us. Yes crappy members areas in the past and today hurt us.

But the biggest thing to hurt us is we are still stuck with the idea customers will pay to download videos like they did in the past. Free video content is here to stay and someone selling only video content is fighting an uphill battle.

Pointing a finger at the problems don't make them go away.

Coming up with solutions does.

there's a limit to what we can offer people, porn is porn - pictures and movies of naked people, pictures and movies of people fucking each other. been this way since the first cavemen hammered a drawing of some tits on a cave wall, dirty French postcards, dirty novels, nudie magazines, 16mm stag films/loops, 35mm triple x theaters, VHS brought it into the privacy of people's homes, the biggest boomtime in porn history, 15 years later the Interent, another huge boom. but it's always been the same. we have added the live component with cam sites where losers can pay to chat with a livenaked girl. how people watch porn changes but porn doesn't really, penis and vagina hasn't changed in thousands of years!

i don't know what you think we're missing out on. like a Facebook community where there are 500 hot girls naked all day long just to chat and have cybersex with any loser with a credit card?

virtual reality sex will come, sex with lifelike robots - but we're not there yet. and in the end the average joe will keep spanking it to pictures and movies of naked people. he just doesn't have to pay for it anymore and that sucks. your fantasy that there's some way of offering these guys something so good that they will pay for it is just that - a fantasy.

there are some community type porn sites - Suicide Girls i guess would be the best example, a member joins and has 1000 models who really do participate, interact and become friends with members. yet i hear SuicideGirls' traffic and sales are way down too.

here's the challenge for porn - and i'm not talking about the thieves who run tube sites - people who still produce porn, is there a way of making a good return on your investment by giving away your content for free. tube sites do it BUT easy for them when they're not spending a dime on anything but hosting and programming. Could Pornhub turn a profit spending 2 or 3 million a year to produce the kind of content that they now steal? i'm gonna guess NO.

we all can't run live cam sites and i'm sure the cam biz isnt having record years either now.

[Agent 488]

porn sales have collapsed due to a 30 dollar price point. lower it and it's magically 1999 again.