Do you think the country is better off than 4 years ago?

[Vendzilla]

Simple question, not looking for a debate
Democrats took control of the house and senate in 2006, everything collapsed in 2008 and here we are in 2010, are things getting better than 2006?

[epitome]

You're assuming politics and laws are in real time.

That is a mistake that too many otherwise intelligent people make.

We cannot even fully judge Bush's policies yet as there has not been enough time. We can pretty much judge Clinton on back.

[Carmen80]

I am not a US citizen, but I can say that the image of USA is much better than it was before. The rest of the world used to hate USA, but now we just think you are fucking retarded.

[epitome]

And to answer your question, in some ways it is and other ways it is not.

We're not as active in Iraq, which is good.
Personal savings rates are no longer negative, which is good.
Unemployment is sky high, which is bad.
We still have a war in Afghanistan, which is bad.

It's not black and white.

[iSpyCams]

in 2006 I grossed over 3 million. In 2009 I lost 200k.

No judgment, I just want my money.

[Adam_M]

Are we better off than in 2006? No, but did you notice the rest of the world is also worse off? Obama has done a good job in some very hard times IMO

[Bill8]

looking at your push poll option descriptions, clearly you are lying like a dog if you claim you are not looking for derbate.

since the illusion of money in 2006 was based on a fake economy, and the overpricing of houses and other classes of assets and the explosion of a consumer economy based on a fake form of easy credit, that required a correction that stripped 12 trillion in wealth from the books, by definition we are better off now, with things closer to their real value.

it hurts, but we are better off, because living that lie is behind us.

however, we let the corporations loot the american economy, strip the real wealth and sell it off, and move manufacturing and employment to other countries, and we will be paying the price for that for decades to come.

worse is yet to come.

[Bill8]

however, thanks for giving us a good example of simplistic thinking. a classic form of post hoc ergo propter hoc.

and please do win the next few cycles of elections. we need simplistic thinking in this country.

[MetaMan]

What country? There lies your problem in the USA.

[rogueteens]

Originally Posted by MetaMan

What country? There lies your problem in the USA.

You should know by now that americans seem to think that the net only covers one country.

[Brujah]

None of the answers really apply as they're all biased and ridiculous. I'll give my own answer. I don't think it's Bush's fault and I don't think Obama is the Messiah.

Do you think the country is better off than 4 years ago? No.

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by Bill8

looking at your push poll option descriptions, clearly you are lying like a dog if you claim you are not looking for derbate.

since the illusion of money in 2006 was based on a fake economy, and the overpricing of houses and other classes of assets and the explosion of a consumer economy based on a fake form of easy credit, that required a correction that stripped 12 trillion in wealth from the books, by definition we are better off now, with things closer to their real value.

it hurts, but we are better off, because living that lie is behind us.

however, we let the corporations loot the american economy, strip the real wealth and sell it off, and move manufacturing and employment to other countries, and we will be paying the price for that for decades to come.

worse is yet to come.

I own a house, same house since 2000, I saw it go way up and realized it wouldn't stay there, the people in charge, 545 of them didn't, I'm a simple webmaster, they run the country and didn't see it coming

Originally Posted by rogueteens

You should know by now that americans seem to think that the net only covers one country.

The world economy relies a lot on the US economy

Originally Posted by Brujah

None of the answers really apply as they're all biased and ridiculous. I'll give my own answer. I don't think it's Bush's fault and I don't think Obama is the Messiah.

Do you think the country is better off than 4 years ago? No.

So the correct answer is that it got worse under the democrats, it was under the Democrats for those 4 years and it got worse, right?

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by epitome

And to answer your question, in some ways it is and other ways it is not.

We're not as active in Iraq, which is good.

Still got 50,000 troops there

Personal savings rates are no longer negative, which is good.

Those that save in say CD's are getting screwed because of the lower interest rates

Unemployment is sky high, which is bad.
We still have a war in Afghanistan, which is bad.

Agreed

It's not black and white.

looks that way to me, we're fucked

[Bill8]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

I own a house, same house since 2000, I saw it go way up and realized it wouldn't stay there, the people in charge, 545 of them didn't, I'm a simple webmaster, they run the country and didn't see it coming

i've already said they should all be thrown out. especially that uncle tom.

i feel so strongly about that I want your side to win because i believe it's the short route to so much pain and anger that all the bums are removed, and every single one is investigated for corruption.

i'm even happy to see you using logical fallacies like post hoc ergo propter hoc to try to get your side elected, even tho it's sloppy on your part.

simplistic thinking will only make things worse. and I want them to get worse as fast as possible, so that we can destroy and recreate our government as fast as possible.

[beerptrol]

Sure we were better off 4 years ago but it wasn't what it appeared to be and ticking time bomb waiting to go off.
Kinda like meeting the girl of your dreams, once she removed her make up and clothes you find out she was really a dude. Sure you were better off when you thought you had the most beautiful girl, but in the end it wasn't what it appeared to be

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by Bill8

i've already said they should all be thrown out. especially that uncle tom.

i feel so strongly about that I want your side to win because i believe it's the short route to so much pain and anger that all the bums are removed, and every single one is investigated for corruption.

i'm even happy to see you using logical fallacies like post hoc ergo propter hoc to try to get your side elected, even tho it's sloppy on your part.

simplistic thinking will only make things worse. and I want them to get worse as fast as possible, so that we can destroy and recreate our government as fast as possible.

So you speak latin?

Right now people are pissed, and with good cause, the Tea Party is pissing off the GOP because it's helping to get rid of the same Ole same Ole incumbents, or are you not watching the news?
With that kind of wake up call, no job is safe train of thought, things could improve

In the last 2 years we have been piling on new laws and regulations that will not help the US.

corruptisima re publica plurimae leges

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by beerptrol

Sure we were better off 4 years ago but it wasn't what it appeared to be and ticking time bomb waiting to go off.
Kinda like meeting the girl of your dreams, once she removed her make up and clothes you find out she was really a dude. Sure you were better off when you thought you had the most beautiful girl, but in the end it wasn't what it appeared to be

And you know this from personal experience?

[fatfoo]

I don't know. The way things are going right now I would say 99% of success relies on the individual, not the country. If the person is not working, he/she is not getting any money.

[Bill8]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

So you speak latin?

Right now people are pissed, and with good cause, the Tea Party is pissing off the GOP because it's helping to get rid of the same Ole same Ole incumbents, or are you not watching the news?
With that kind of wake up call, no job is safe train of thought, things could improve

In the last 2 years we have been piling on new laws and regulations that will not help the US.

corruptisima re publica plurimae leges

only a bit of latin, but because logic and rhetoric were perfected by the romans, latin is often used to describe things like logical fallacies. It's a technical term in rhetoric. post hoc ergo propter hoc

because the corporations are "super-people", with all the privilidges of a real person, but few of the liabilities, and they cannot be imprisoned or executed for crimes like a real person, it's appropriate to regulate them, and we should regulate them far more than we do.

but we wont, because the corporations control the country now, so most "regulations" are really legal tricks to funnel them wealth and extra powers. the recent health care package, for example, was a sham, a way to relieve the corporations from health care costs by funneling tax money to other corporations. the corporations wanted that health care package so they could push health care costs off their books, and becaus ethey are in control, they got exactly the package they wanted.

pretty much exactly like what bush did with medicare part b.

if you think your side can control them or use them to your benefit, you are deluding yourself.

however, I believe that if your side wins the country will collapse even faster, and I want that, so please do win.

[Amputate Your Head]

you are a slave.
it makes no difference which side is "in power".
the country is exactly where it is supposed to be at this time by those who have determined its course.





please wake up.

[SomeCreep]

In 2006, I looked like this:



In 2010, now I look like this:

[PornMD]

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

you are a slave.
it makes no difference which side is "in power".
the country is exactly where it is supposed to be at this time by those who have determined its course.

please wake up.

On one hand you say things like this (which I agree with) - on the other hand you're one of the biggest defenders of certain politicians when just about all the politicians being discussed on this board (with maybe the exception of Ron Paul) are bought and paid to serve the huge corporations dead set on fucking all of us for their gain while shepherding the public to get their vote again each election. I don't get it.

To answer Vend, the housing shit started long long ago and is the ultimate cause of all of this, between the mortgage companies directly involved in creating the bubble, the investment firms and banks that invested in that bubble and did what they could to keep it alive and growing, and the government who didn't stop it when it could have been stopped. On that last note, Dems in power in 2006 would have been trying to stop a freight train with a zebra...everything was in motion well before that.

Having worked intimately with a number of mortgage companies from 2004 to 2007, I saw firsthand the absolutely ruthless tactics they would use to make sure a loan went through whether it should have or not. Paying off appraisers to boost home values, threatening appraisal companies to give them values they wanted whether they were true values of the homes, promising the world to homeowners and then doing every underhanded tactic they could think of to deliver a mirage of that world, etc. Some huge companies were involved in this, some of which since got reamed by the govt for it, but as an afterthought when the damage had already been done. Inflated appraisals caused inflated sales which caused further inflated appraisals, etc.

Certainly it wasn't just the companies themselves either - with all the investment firms and banks investing in those mortgages, politicians were likely getting gobs of money to let the problem continue (which yes likely included Dems in 2006 but by then again it was too late anyways - homes were already far too inflated). Ultimately, the people that couldn't afford the homes they were buying trusted these banks and politicians when they should have been looking at the big picture and asking what was wrong with that picture, though some of them probably simply couldn't avoid it due to timing.

I was one of those...I myself bought a home in 2007 because I had to move out, it was either that or rent, I could afford the mortgage payments and could get a fixed rate loan with at the time a ridiculously low rate vs. the irresponsible ARM/interest only, and all my life I was told the best investment one can make is in real estate. I can still afford the mortgage payments on my home that is now worth less than 60% what it was then and I have no intention of moving any time soon, so it's hard to say it was a BAD decision, but I got to feel what it's like to see tens of thousands of dollars in down payment vanish into thin air and it's a brutal feeling. The huge mass of people that bought in 06-07 were buying hugely inflated houses in a "good" economy and many with ARMs allowing for low payments they could afford, only to soon find their home worth far less, the economy all of a sudden sucking ass, and that mortgage payment much more monstrous either literally or figuratively.

[suesheboy]

For sure we are on a better track. Sad everyone won't work together or we would be doing way better.

[BFT3K]

Originally Posted by SomeCreep

In 2006, I looked like this:


In 2010, now I look like this:

I like the new look!

[BFT3K]

Originally Posted by suesheboy

For sure we are on a better track. Sad everyone won't work together or we would be doing way better.

No doubt!

[Amputate Your Head]

Originally Posted by PornMD

On one hand you say things like this (which I agree with) - on the other hand you're one of the biggest defenders of certain politicians when just about all the politicians being discussed on this board (with maybe the exception of Ron Paul) are bought and paid to serve the huge corporations dead set on fucking all of us for their gain while shepherding the public to get their vote again each election. I don't get it.

to get a feel for the mentality of the board population, one must choose a side. by choosing a side, one may observe reactions by all sides.

it is rare when i expose my true state.

[Serge Litehead]

national debt is on steroids, nothing to debate. both parties are the same.

[The Porn Nerd]

Define "better".

[Pics Traffic]

Yes. Much better.

[Bill8]

it would be hard to point to much that the dems have done to make it better.

it might be interesting to generate two lists.

one list of things dems have done, in some arbitrary past period, to make things better. and the other list of things republicans have done to make things better.

lets see, is there anything I would put on that list?

well, I dont think the credit card regulations have been bad. i never had any probs with credit cards, but it's nice to know they can't fuck me quite so easily. however, it hasn't been long enough to see what unintded consequences follow.

health care - well I'm suspicious of it, but we simply can't know what that bill will do until we see it in action, and that's what, like 2014 or something?

anybody have any ideas for things republicans did to make things better?

[christianrod30]

I think is a little bit better but Obama lost too many time with health care and few with economy. I do not see any Republican to win 2012. I think Republican center and right are fighting to control the party and many things can happen but they might come back only 2016 or later.

[DaddyHalbucks]

Originally Posted by Carmen80

I am not a US citizen, but I can say that the image of USA is much better than it was before. The rest of the world used to hate USA, but now we just think you are fucking retarded.

As I have been saying, many foreigners want the USA to be weak, so of course they love B. Hussein Obama.

[tony286]

I think the right should win back control of it all. when it still sucks or is worse. We wont hear a word. All throw in alot of them are big jesus people they should just love porn. lol

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by tony299

I think the right should win back control of it all. when it still sucks or is worse. We wont hear a word. All throw in alot of them are big jesus people they should just love porn. lol

One of the things that's been seen on the GOP side is a return to conservative ideals. That's whats being pushed by the Tea Party candidates and they are the ones that are winning. If they keep their momentum, then things could actually improve by doing exactly whats on the core values of the Tea Party. Yeah I know that scares everyone, but taking down Porn is not on the list.
Less regulations helps business expands, because the fear about whats next goes away and they can plan, smaller government means less money is needed to pay for it, less taxes. And the biggest thing, just because you're the party favorite, doesn't mean you're going to make the cut, that's been proven a lot in the primaries. People are getting tired of the party bullshit and they are speaking up with their votes, we can only hope this trend continues.
Right now is the closest to a revolution we've had in a long time

[Bryan G]

Another day another Obama hate thread from Vendzilla

We get it dude

[TylerBang]

Looks like one of those FOX 'news' Polls.

Is the U.S. Economy doing badly because...

1. Obama is Satan
2. Dems Blame Bush!
3. Dems control both houses
4. Clinton did it

Please respond to my unbiased poll.

Where is the 'effects of 9-11' in this poll?

[tony286]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

One of the things that's been seen on the GOP side is a return to conservative ideals. That's whats being pushed by the Tea Party candidates and they are the ones that are winning. If they keep their momentum, then things could actually improve by doing exactly whats on the core values of the Tea Party. Yeah I know that scares everyone, but taking down Porn is not on the list.
Less regulations helps business expands, because the fear about whats next goes away and they can plan, smaller government means less money is needed to pay for it, less taxes. And the biggest thing, just because you're the party favorite, doesn't mean you're going to make the cut, that's been proven a lot in the primaries. People are getting tired of the party bullshit and they are speaking up with their votes, we can only hope this trend continues.
Right now is the closest to a revolution we've had in a long time

Less regs like what happened with wall street? thats a great idea. Listen those jobs arent coming back, when in china they can pay 30 cents an hour to make iphones. If it wasnt for cheap credit ,we would have been feeling this along time ago. During bush only 1 million jobs were credited in 8 yrs. You need at least 1.2 million a year.Jobs have been sent offshore in bulk all during bush, so this shit isnt new just acelerated. You are all kidding yours selves really.

[tony286]

Originally Posted by TylerBang

Looks like one of those FOX 'news' Polls.

Is the U.S. Economy doing badly because...

1. Obama is Satan
2. Dems Blame Bush!
3. Dems control both houses
4. Clinton did it

Please respond to my unbiased poll.

[_Richard_]

funny the poll choices

just a little reminder of the missile shield and the nuclear weapons you guys would have gotten pointed at our ally.

just a little reminder.

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by Bryan G

Another day another Obama hate thread from Vendzilla

We get it dude

With the exception of the poll answers, where did I even mention Obama?

Originally Posted by tony299

Less regs like what happened with wall street? thats a great idea. Listen those jobs arent coming back, when in china they can pay 30 cents an hour to make iphones. If it wasnt for cheap credit ,we would have been feeling this along time ago. During bush only 1 million jobs were credited in 8 yrs. You need at least 1.2 million a year.Jobs have been sent offshore in bulk all during bush, so this shit isnt new just acelerated. You are all kidding yours selves really.

How many jobs were created since the democrats took office in 06?

[cwd]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

One of the things that's been seen on the GOP side is a return to conservative ideals. That's whats being pushed by the Tea Party candidates and they are the ones that are winning. If they keep their momentum, then things could actually improve by doing exactly whats on the core values of the Tea Party. Yeah I know that scares everyone, but taking down Porn is not on the list.
Less regulations helps business expands, because the fear about whats next goes away and they can plan, smaller government means less money is needed to pay for it, less taxes. And the biggest thing, just because you're the party favorite, doesn't mean you're going to make the cut, that's been proven a lot in the primaries. People are getting tired of the party bullshit and they are speaking up with their votes, we can only hope this trend continues.
Right now is the closest to a revolution we've had in a long time

It is interesting to hear some of the things the Tea Party candidates are talking about, although to say that they would improve things in office I am not so sure of.

Christine O'Donnell, Republican Senatorial Candidate
"We sit there and scratch our heads and wonder why sexual harassment is out of control in this country. It is because we are setting a precedent through our pop culture, through the songs that penetrate the airwaves and the sitcoms that are on television that are just saturated with sexual themes, that respect no boundaries," she said. "We need to just do a U-Haul of our pop culture. I think legislators, Hollywood film producers all need to reevaluate why they are doing what they are doing... We end up feeding a demon, feeding a monster and we are feeding this appetite so much that our generation is going to self-destruct quite honestly."

Sharon Angle, Republican Senatorial Candidate
From the "the beginning," Angle has described her campaign as divinely inspired, and said in July that she believed God had called on her to run for the U.S. Senate. She has also repeatedly made clear her positions on abortion -- that it shouldn't be accepted even in the cases of rape or incest -- and has expressed skepticism over the true necessity for a separation of church and state. Earlier this month, Angle painted the Democratic agenda as a "violation of the First Commandment," because it supposedly created idolatry in making the "government our God" with entitlement programs. Just a day later, she filled out a questionnaire of her religious views that uncovered her dislike of gay adoption, her support for the clergy taking part in politics, and a promise not to take money from any PAC or corporation that supported gay rights.

Rand Paul, Republican Senatorial Candidate
In an interview, Paul said that if elected, he will quickly propose balancing the budget in a single year without raising taxes. It's a sweeping pledge, considering the government is projected to spend about $3.8 trillion in the next budget year, with a deficit of about $1.4 trillion. The result would be a cut of about 37 cents out of every dollar on programs as diverse as defense, the Pentagon, Social Security, farm payments and more.
It's the type of rhetoric that made him a tea party favorite.
Yet moments later, the hedging begins.
Paul favors eliminating the Department of Education. But when asked about its funding, he recommends, "send it back to the states," leaving unclear how that would reduce federal deficits.
Asked about Title I, the government program to help local school districts educate disadvantaged children, he said, "That might be a federal function," suggesting it remain in place.
Asked to clarify, he said, "I've never thought about it. I don't know my position on that."

[Bill8]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

Less regulations helps business expands, because the fear about whats next goes away and they can plan, smaller government means less money is needed to pay for it, less taxes. And the biggest thing, just because you're the party favorite, doesn't mean you're going to make the cut, that's been proven a lot in the primaries. People are getting tired of the party bullshit and they are speaking up with their votes, we can only hope this trend continues.

Right now is the closest to a revolution we've had in a long time

you have to admit he sounds a lot like the mirror image of the obamanuts. people were saying similar "hopey changey" things about obama back in 2008, even tho every single speech obama gave was packed to the brim with clintonian style rightist-centrist rhetoric, and obama was CLEARLY not a progressive in policy.

vend has the same kind of baseless hope. he probably sincerely believes that the tea party actually has a policy, and really intends, and much more importantly, has the power, to cut back government.

what they will actually do is carry on the contruction of the police state the corporations, using clinton, bush, and obama as tools, have been building. they will start some new wars, including what ever the next war on drugs will be (I figure a war on porn is top of the list, with a war on abortion and a war on white female childlessness being likely as well), and do a HUGE amount of police crackdowns, and they will increase gov spending to do this.

but the corporations wont let them cut any significant amount out of the aid spending, because the corporations all end up getting that money when the poor and needy spend.

it would be so funny to see them try to cut entitlements lol.

let them do it. obama has betrayed us, the dems have betrayed us, fuck them all.

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by Bill8

you have to admit he sounds a lot like the mirror image of the obamanuts. people were saying similar "hopey changey" things about obama back in 2008, even tho every single speech obama gave was packed to the brim with clintonian style rightist-centrist rhetoric, and obama was CLEARLY not a progressive in policy.

vend has the same kind of baseless hope. he probably sincerely believes that the tea party actually has a policy, and really intends, and much more importantly, has the power, to cut back government.

what they will actually do is carry on the contruction of the police state the corporations, using clinton, bush, and obama as tools, have been building. they will start some new wars, including what ever the next war on drugs will be (I figure a war on porn is top of the list, with a war on abortion and a war on white female childlessness being likely as well), and do a HUGE amount of police crackdowns, and they will increase gov spending to do this.

but the corporations wont let them cut any significant amount out of the aid spending, because the corporations all end up getting that money when the poor and needy spend.

it would be so funny to see them try to cut entitlements lol.

let them do it. obama has betrayed us, the dems have betrayed us, fuck them all.

I don't have baseless hope, I don't really have any hope at all, but anytime a political movement can invoke any change at all, I'm interested

[BFT3K]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

Less regulations helps business expands, because the fear about whats next goes away and they can plan, smaller government means less money is needed to pay for it, less taxes. And the biggest thing, just because you're the party favorite, doesn't mean you're going to make the cut, that's been proven a lot in the primaries. People are getting tired of the party bullshit and they are speaking up with their votes, we can only hope this trend continues.

Right now is the closest to a revolution we've had in a long time

You are the Koch Brothers' bitch - and Dick Armey's play toy too!

[Bill8]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

I don't have baseless hope, I don't really have any hope at all, but anytime a political movement can invoke any change at all, I'm interested

a wise statement reflecting self awareness and a reasonable consciousness of the realities of our situation.

however, like all of us, the virus of rhetoric does often enough infect your thought process and is revealed in your writing.

the virus of rhetoric infects all of us - thats what rhetoric does, that's how it works, it exploits vulnerabilities in brain and mind and actually manipulates brain chemistry.

unfortunately, thats part of the problem - we are easily trapped and used by the people who have the money and media access to propagate viral rhetoric.

it would be interesting to see you struggle with the problems of policy. HOW COULD this new movement actually make changes, as opposed to merely being the latest in a string of sockpuppets for the corporations?

[michael.kickass]

It'll probably just get worse guys.

[Dvae]

Originally Posted by Adam_WildCash

Obama has done a good job in some very hard times IMO

Let me have some of whatever you are smoking.

[Penthouse Tony]

a yes or no question with 4 ways to answer it (3 positive 1 negative). I guess that's gfy polls.

[OneHungLo]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

With the exception of the poll answers, where did I even mention Obama?



How many jobs were created since the democrats took office in 06?

If Republicans were in control it wouldn't have made any difference. This mess was already in the making many years before the Dems got control.