Whoa! - UK Proposes All Paychecks Go to the State First - GoFuckYourself.com

iMind · 09-20-2010, 09:05 PM

Just wow.... I find myself wishing there was another planet to go to more and more lately.

The UK's tax collection agency is putting forth a proposal that all employers send employee paychecks to the government, after which the government would deduct what it deems as the appropriate tax and pay the employees by bank transfer.

Sharon Lorimer
The proposal by Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs (HMRC) stresses the need for employers to provide real-time information to the government so that it can monitor all payments and make a better assessment of whether the correct tax is being paid.

Currently employers withhold tax and pay the government, providing information at the end of the year, a system know as Pay as You Earn (PAYE). There is no option for those employees to refuse withholding and individually file a tax return at the end of the year.

If the real-time information plan works, it further proposes that employers hand over employee salaries to the government first.

"The next step could be to use (real-time) information as the basis for centralizing the calculation and deduction of tax," HMRC said in a July discussion paper.

HMRC described the plan as "radical" as it would be a huge change from the current system that has been largely unchanged for 66 years.

Even though the centralized deductions proposal would provide much-needed oversight, there are some major concerns, George Bull, head of Tax at Baker Tilly, told CNBC.com.

"If HMRC has direct access to employees' bank accounts and makes a mistake, people are going to feel very exposed and vulnerable," Bull said.

And the chance of widespread mistakes could be high, according to Bull. HMRC does not have a good track record of handling large computer systems and has suffered high-profile errors with data, he said.

The system would be massive in terms of data management, larger than a recent attempt to centralize the National Health Service's data, which was later scrapped, Bull said.

If there's a mistake and the HMRC collects too much money, the difficulty of getting it back could be high with repayments of tax taking weeks or months, he said.

"There has to be some very clear understanding of how quickly repayments were made if there was a mistake," Bull said.

HMRC estimated the potential savings to employers from the introduction of the concept would be about £500 million ($780 million).

But the cost of implementing the new system would be "phenomenal," Bull pointed out.

"It's very clear that the system does need to be modernized… It's outdated, it's outmoded," Emma Boon, campaigner manager at the Tax Payers' Alliance, told CNBC.com.

Boon said that the Tax Payers' Alliance was in favor of simplifying tax collection, but stressed that a new complex computer system would add infrastructure and administration costs at a time when the government is trying to reduce spending.

There is a further concern, according to Bull. The centralized storage of so much data poises a security risk as the system may be open to cyber crime.

As well as security issues, there's a huge issue of transparency, according to Boon.

Boon also questioned HMCR's ability to handle to the role effectively.

The Institute of Directors (IoD), a UK organization created to promote the business agenda of directors and entreprenuers, said in a press release it had major concerns about the proposal to allow employees' pay to be paid directly to HMRC.

The IoD said the shift to a real-time, centralized system could be positive as long as the burden on employers was not increased. But it added that the idea of wages being processed by HMRC was "completely unacceptable."

“This document contains a lot of good ideas. But the idea that HMRC should be trusted with the gross pay of employees is not one of them," Richard Baron, Head of Taxation at the IoD, said in the release.

A spokesperson for Chancellor of the Exchequer George Osborne was not immediately available for comment.

Agent 488 · 09-20-2010, 09:08 PM

17 καὶ ἵνα μή τις δύνηται ἀγοράσαι ἢ πωλῆσαι εἰ μὴ ὁ ἔχων τὸ χάραγμα, τὸ ὄνομα τοῦ θηρίου ἢ τὸν ἀριθμὸν τοῦ ὀνόματος αὐτοῦ. 18 ὧδε ἡ σοφία ἐστίν· ὁ ἔχων νοῦν ψηφισάτω τὸν ἀριθμὸν τοῦ θηρίου, ἀριθμὸς γὰρ ἀνθρώπου ἐστίν· καὶ ὁ ἀριθμὸς αὐτοῦ ἑξακόσιοι ἑξήκοντα ἕξ.

CYF · 09-20-2010, 09:13 PM

fuck that shit.

iMind · 09-20-2010, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agent 488

17 καὶ ἵνα μή τις δύνηται ἀγοράσαι ἢ πωλῆσαι εἰ μὴ ὁ ἔχων τὸ χάραγμα, τὸ ὄνομα τοῦ θηρίου ἢ τὸν ἀριθμὸν τοῦ ὀνόματος αὐτοῦ. 18 ὧδε ἡ σοφία ἐστίν· ὁ ἔχων νοῦν ψηφισάτω τὸν ἀριθμὸν τοῦ θηρίου, ἀριθμὸς γὰρ ἀνθρώπου ἐστίν· καὶ ὁ ἀριθμὸς αὐτοῦ ἑξακόσιοι ἑξήκοντα ἕξ.

Thanks for your contribution Agent 488

TidalWave · 09-20-2010, 09:14 PM

By the time all the software, hardware, people, training, processes, procedures are all in place... you are looking at 10 years before its even begun.

iMind · 09-20-2010, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TidalWave

By the time all the software, hardware, people, training, processes, procedures are all in place... you are looking at 10 years before its even begun.

Oh, jeeze okay,... I thought it was tomorrow so it sorta scared me, ten years away is much much better

SallyRand · 09-20-2010, 09:25 PM

This sort of shit began in Britain a long time ago with The Madness of King George. Any wonder the American Colonies revolted?

Just sayin'.

Sally.

Alprazolam · 09-20-2010, 09:27 PM

haha i hope that the brits have a civil war.

LongBG · 09-20-2010, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alprazolam

haha i hope that the brits have a civil war.

Are you retarded?
Or just a fucking idiot?

Chosen · 09-20-2010, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agent 488

17 καὶ ἵνα μή τις δύνηται ἀγοράσαι ἢ πωλῆσαι εἰ μὴ ὁ ἔχων τὸ χάραγμα, τὸ ὄνομα τοῦ θηρίου ἢ τὸν ἀριθμὸν τοῦ ὀνόματος αὐτοῦ. 18 ὧδε ἡ σοφία ἐστίν· ὁ ἔχων νοῦν ψηφισάτω τὸν ἀριθμὸν τοῦ θηρίου, ἀριθμὸς γὰρ ἀνθρώπου ἐστίν· καὶ ὁ ἀριθμὸς αὐτοῦ ἑξακόσιοι ἑξήκοντα ἕξ.

Is it greek?

NaughtyRob · 09-20-2010, 09:50 PM

Pretty much why we became the USA right.

cambaby · 09-20-2010, 09:52 PM

Theres no way in hell thatll happen

rogueteens · 09-20-2010, 09:53 PM

It'll never happen

SallyRand · 09-20-2010, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alprazolam

haha i hope that the brits have a civil war.

Too many Muslims there now for that and what with British courts now enforcing Sharia law.........well, you know.

Just sayin'.

Sally.

bjlover · 09-21-2010, 12:22 AM

some of you are very stupid to believe this shit

very

babebuns · 09-21-2010, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SallyRand

Too many Muslims there now for that and what with British courts now enforcing Sharia law.........well, you know.

You're fucking retarded.

09-21-2010, 02:00 AM

Won't happen.
Blood tax man, quick enough to mug you when you underpay yet take there time when you overpay.

v4 media · 09-21-2010, 02:05 AM

Last time there were big tax changes, ended up in riots and the tax changes went away.

baddog · 09-21-2010, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TidalWave

By the time all the software, hardware, people, training, processes, procedures are all in place... you are looking at 10 years before its even begun.

This is not a problem because of your life expectancy or because the world ends in 2012?

redwhiteandblue · 09-21-2010, 02:15 AM

This is what happens when you've had a socialist government for too long, people start thinking that ideas like this are acceptable. Instead of making HMRC more powerful the current Conservatives would do better to make the tax system far more streamlined.

SimonScans · 09-21-2010, 02:29 AM

It probably won't happen, but thats not the point, it's the fact they think its OK to talk about it as a possibility that pisses me off. If you've ever had to deal with the UK tax authorities, especially the ones that collect VAT, then you'll know one of their favourite phrases is that it never was YOUR money it was always theirs.

If they want a cost saving merge National Insurance and Income Tax and just collect it once, instead of TWICE.

There will never be a civil war in the UK, or if there is it'll be fought with spoons, because anything vaguely pointy or shooty is illegal here.

This is the country where you need a license for a telly, and it was illegal to sell milk in shops not that long ago.

redwhiteandblue · 09-21-2010, 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SimonScans

If they want a cost saving merge National Insurance and Income Tax and just collect it once, instead of TWICE.

Indeed, only trouble with that is, the sheeple would wake up and realise the basic rate of income tax in the UK is actually 31% not 20% as the government would like them to believe.

BloodFart · 09-21-2010, 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cambaby

Theres no way in hell thatll happen

Quote:

Originally Posted by rogueteens

It'll never happen

The have to pay a yearly tax to even own a TV there. They have vans that drive around looking for signals from unlicensed tv's. if it could happen anywhere it's there.

PornMD · 09-21-2010, 02:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LongBG

Are you retarded?
Or just a fucking idiot?

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjlover

some of you are very stupid to believe this shit

very

Quote:

Originally Posted by babebuns

You're fucking retarded.

I'm seeing a trend.

Paul Markham · 09-21-2010, 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rogueteens

It'll never happen

Exactly. The tax man can come up with crazy schemes all day long, to keep people employed thinking up crazy schemes. Getting it past the electorate is another matter.

As for the saving of 500 million to employers, it'll add 1 billion to the cost of tax collection.

SGS · 09-21-2010, 02:52 AM

Amazing what some people believe.

Ethersync · 09-21-2010, 04:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjlover

some of you are very stupid to believe this shit

very

Quote:

Originally Posted by SGS

Amazing what some people believe.

Tell that to CNBC. They are reporting it...

SGS · 09-21-2010, 04:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethersync

Tell that to CNBC. They are reporting it...

And people believe it?

james_clickmemedia · 09-21-2010, 04:39 AM

The tax office can propose whatever they want however it will never get passed.

NinjaSteve · 09-21-2010, 05:04 AM

Does that mean Canada would have to send their checks to England? How does that work?

Sly · 09-21-2010, 05:10 AM

The UK has done such a bang-up job with the economy, pensions, and health care... it only makes sense to send them all money first.

rogueteens · 09-21-2010, 05:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BloodFart

The have to pay a yearly tax to even own a TV there. They have vans that drive around looking for signals from unlicensed tv's. if it could happen anywhere it's there.

EH! what are you on about? We pay a licence fee for the telly, yeah but it pays for the bbc and i'm glad we do. The beeb carries no advertising, many of the other channels are all but unwatchable now because of all the advertising interuptions.
And as i understand it, the advertising supported channels are still not half as bad as the american counterparts for interruptions.

v4 media · 09-21-2010, 05:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BloodFart

The have to pay a yearly tax to even own a TV there. They have vans that drive around looking for signals from unlicensed tv's. if it could happen anywhere it's there.

Pays for the BBC, well worth the money... in Italy you pay a tax but still get advertising on the state run channels.

Sly · 09-21-2010, 05:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rogueteens

EH! what are you on about? We pay a licence fee for the telly, yeah but it pays for the bbc and i'm glad we do. The beeb carries no advertising, many of the other channels are all but unwatchable now because of all the advertising interuptions.
And as i understand it, the advertising supported channels are still not half as bad as the american counterparts for interruptions.

We have free channels, too, quite a few of them. They do have advertising though.

ottopottomouse · 09-21-2010, 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SimonScans

There will never be a civil war in the UK, or if there is it'll be fought with spoons, because anything vaguely pointy or shooty is illegal here.

It's only a random idea document that has been produced by someone who's job is probably going to be having silly ideas all day.

Paul Markham · 09-21-2010, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ottopottomouse

It's only a random idea document that has been produced by someone who's job is probably going to be having silly ideas all day.

Someone???

Think whole departments.

Cyber Fucker · 09-21-2010, 06:24 AM

Wow... wtf...

woj · 09-21-2010, 06:25 AM

but that is pointless, they already know how much you earn, so what will this new system actually accomplish?

Sid70 · 09-21-2010, 06:32 AM

That shit is not new at all, been working in USSR for years.

Rochard · 09-21-2010, 06:50 AM

What I've never understood about taxes is why they don't just tax all and any money transfered. Any transaction, bam.

v4 media · 09-21-2010, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woj

but that is pointless, they already know how much you earn, so what will this new system actually accomplish?

3 reasons
They get their hands on the money 3 months earlier. makes the yearly accounts look good if you don't have to borrow for a qtr.

Only once a year is everything checked that its correct, so it could result in a large under/overpayments.

Companies go out of business owing the taxman money, this way it's impossible to owe more than 1 pay period in taxes.

EonBlue · 09-21-2010, 07:47 AM

09-20-2010, 09:05 PM	#1
iMind Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 937	Whoa! - UK Proposes All Paychecks Go to the State First Just wow.... I find myself wishing there was another planet to go to more and more lately. The UK's tax collection agency is putting forth a proposal that all employers send employee paychecks to the government, after which the government would deduct what it deems as the appropriate tax and pay the employees by bank transfer. Sharon Lorimer The proposal by Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs (HMRC) stresses the need for employers to provide real-time information to the government so that it can monitor all payments and make a better assessment of whether the correct tax is being paid. Currently employers withhold tax and pay the government, providing information at the end of the year, a system know as Pay as You Earn (PAYE). There is no option for those employees to refuse withholding and individually file a tax return at the end of the year. If the real-time information plan works, it further proposes that employers hand over employee salaries to the government first. "The next step could be to use (real-time) information as the basis for centralizing the calculation and deduction of tax," HMRC said in a July discussion paper. HMRC described the plan as "radical" as it would be a huge change from the current system that has been largely unchanged for 66 years. Even though the centralized deductions proposal would provide much-needed oversight, there are some major concerns, George Bull, head of Tax at Baker Tilly, told CNBC.com. "If HMRC has direct access to employees' bank accounts and makes a mistake, people are going to feel very exposed and vulnerable," Bull said. And the chance of widespread mistakes could be high, according to Bull. HMRC does not have a good track record of handling large computer systems and has suffered high-profile errors with data, he said. The system would be massive in terms of data management, larger than a recent attempt to centralize the National Health Service's data, which was later scrapped, Bull said. If there's a mistake and the HMRC collects too much money, the difficulty of getting it back could be high with repayments of tax taking weeks or months, he said. "There has to be some very clear understanding of how quickly repayments were made if there was a mistake," Bull said. HMRC estimated the potential savings to employers from the introduction of the concept would be about £500 million ($780 million). But the cost of implementing the new system would be "phenomenal," Bull pointed out. "It's very clear that the system does need to be modernized… It's outdated, it's outmoded," Emma Boon, campaigner manager at the Tax Payers' Alliance, told CNBC.com. Boon said that the Tax Payers' Alliance was in favor of simplifying tax collection, but stressed that a new complex computer system would add infrastructure and administration costs at a time when the government is trying to reduce spending. There is a further concern, according to Bull. The centralized storage of so much data poises a security risk as the system may be open to cyber crime. As well as security issues, there's a huge issue of transparency, according to Boon. Boon also questioned HMCR's ability to handle to the role effectively. The Institute of Directors (IoD), a UK organization created to promote the business agenda of directors and entreprenuers, said in a press release it had major concerns about the proposal to allow employees' pay to be paid directly to HMRC. The IoD said the shift to a real-time, centralized system could be positive as long as the burden on employers was not increased. But it added that the idea of wages being processed by HMRC was "completely unacceptable." “This document contains a lot of good ideas. But the idea that HMRC should be trusted with the gross pay of employees is not one of them," Richard Baron, Head of Taxation at the IoD, said in the release. A spokesperson for Chancellor of the Exchequer George Osborne was not immediately available for comment.

09-20-2010, 09:13 PM	#3
CYF Coupon Guru Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 10,973	fuck that shit. __________________ Webmaster Coupons Coupons and discounts for hosting, domains, SSL Certs, and more! AmeriNOC Coupons \| Certified Hosting Coupons \| Hosting Coupons \| Domain Name Coupons

09-20-2010, 09:14 PM	#5
TidalWave Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 2,706	By the time all the software, hardware, people, training, processes, procedures are all in place... you are looking at 10 years before its even begun. __________________ www.SwiftNode.com

09-20-2010, 09:50 PM	#11
NaughtyRob Two fresh affiliate progs Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Inside teen pussy Posts: 29,602	Pretty much why we became the USA right. __________________ [email protected] Skype: 17026955414 Vacares Web Hosting - Protect Your Ass with Included Daily Backups

09-20-2010, 09:53 PM	#13
rogueteens So fucking bland Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: England Posts: 8,005	It'll never happen __________________ Free traffic and backlinks from one of the fastest growing adult pinsites on the net - SAUCY PICTURES! Easily my best performing webcam sponsor - CLICK HERE!!

09-20-2010, 09:08 PM	#2
Agent 488 Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 22,511	17 καὶ ἵνα μή τις δύνηται ἀγοράσαι ἢ πωλῆσαι εἰ μὴ ὁ ἔχων τὸ χάραγμα, τὸ ὄνομα τοῦ θηρίου ἢ τὸν ἀριθμὸν τοῦ ὀνόματος αὐτοῦ. 18 ὧδε ἡ σοφία ἐστίν· ὁ ἔχων νοῦν ψηφισάτω τὸν ἀριθμὸν τοῦ θηρίου, ἀριθμὸς γὰρ ἀνθρώπου ἐστίν· καὶ ὁ ἀριθμὸς αὐτοῦ ἑξακόσιοι ἑξήκοντα ἕξ.

09-20-2010, 09:25 PM	#7
SallyRand So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: In A Galaxie Far, Far Away! Posts: 3,487	This sort of shit began in Britain a long time ago with The Madness of King George. Any wonder the American Colonies revolted? Just sayin'. Sally.

09-20-2010, 09:27 PM	#8
Alprazolam So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 864	haha i hope that the brits have a civil war.

09-20-2010, 09:52 PM	#12
cambaby So Fucking Banned Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: CR Posts: 3,141	Theres no way in hell thatll happen

09-21-2010, 12:22 AM	#15
bjlover Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 514	some of you are very stupid to believe this shit very __________________ Arsewithclass has models who claim he wont pay them. Read his pathetic excuse here http://www.gfy.com/showpost.php?p=17...&postcount=102

09-21-2010, 02:00 AM	#17
Altwebdesign Guest Posts: n/a	Won't happen. Blood tax man, quick enough to mug you when you underpay yet take there time when you overpay.

09-21-2010, 02:05 AM	#18
v4 media Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Spain Posts: 2,934	Last time there were big tax changes, ended up in riots and the tax changes went away.

09-21-2010, 02:15 AM	#20
redwhiteandblue Bollocks Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Bollocks Posts: 2,792	This is what happens when you've had a socialist government for too long, people start thinking that ideas like this are acceptable. Instead of making HMRC more powerful the current Conservatives would do better to make the tax system far more streamlined. __________________ Interserver unmanaged AMD Ryzen servers from $73.00

09-21-2010, 02:29 AM	#21
SimonScans Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 342	It probably won't happen, but thats not the point, it's the fact they think its OK to talk about it as a possibility that pisses me off. If you've ever had to deal with the UK tax authorities, especially the ones that collect VAT, then you'll know one of their favourite phrases is that it never was YOUR money it was always theirs. If they want a cost saving merge National Insurance and Income Tax and just collect it once, instead of TWICE. There will never be a civil war in the UK, or if there is it'll be fought with spoons, because anything vaguely pointy or shooty is illegal here. This is the country where you need a license for a telly, and it was illegal to sell milk in shops not that long ago.

09-21-2010, 02:52 AM	#26
SGS Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mallorca - Nottingham Posts: 5,176	Amazing what some people believe. __________________ See sig...

09-21-2010, 04:39 AM	#29
james_clickmemedia Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Texas / London Posts: 2,204	The tax office can propose whatever they want however it will never get passed. __________________ $ CLICKMEMEDIA.COM $ CONVERTING ETHNIC TRAFFIC SINCE 1998 ~ $30+PPS BLACK-X.COM - NEW BLACK EX-GF SITE CLICKMEMEDIA.COM ~ ICQ - 8788771

09-21-2010, 05:04 AM	#30
NinjaSteve Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 11,089	Does that mean Canada would have to send their checks to England? How does that work? __________________ ...

09-21-2010, 05:10 AM	#31
Sly Let's do some business! Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 31,289	The UK has done such a bang-up job with the economy, pensions, and health care... it only makes sense to send them all money first. __________________ Vacares - Web Hosting, Domains, O365, Security & More - Paxum and BTC Accepted Wanted: CCBill pay sites for sale

09-21-2010, 06:24 AM	#37
Cyber Fucker Hmm Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: On an endless road around the world for rock and roll. Posts: 12,642	Wow... wtf... __________________

09-21-2010, 06:25 AM	#38
woj <&(©¿©)&> Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 47,882	but that is pointless, they already know how much you earn, so what will this new system actually accomplish? __________________ Custom Software Development, email: woj#at#wojfun#.#com to discuss details or skype: wojl2000 or gchat: wojfun or telegram: wojl2000 Affiliate program tools: Hosted Galleries Manager Banner Manager Video Manager Wordpress Affiliate Plugin Pic/Movie of the Day Fansign Generator Zip Manager

09-21-2010, 06:32 AM	#39
Sid70 Downshifter Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Road trip Posts: 16,413	That shit is not new at all, been working in USSR for years. __________________ Русня, идите нахуй!

09-21-2010, 06:50 AM	#40
Rochard Jägermeister Test Pilot Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NORCAL Posts: 72,826	What I've never understood about taxes is why they don't just tax all and any money transfered. Any transaction, bam. __________________ “The choice is no longer between right or left. The choice is between normal and crazy.” - Sarah Huckabee Sanders YNOT MAIL \| THE BEST ADULT MAILING SOLUTION

09-21-2010, 07:47 AM	#42
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