What Are Best Data Rates for Streaming Video in H.264 using mp4 format?

[AsianDivaGirlsWebDude]

I'm planning to start streaming my videos using H.264 mp4 files, and I am trying to determine what would be the best data rates (Kbps) to use for the web (High/Low) and for mobile devices (iPhone, iPod, X-Box, etc)?

Any advice which might help is appreciated.

ADG

[Loch]

Depends on your system, servers, how good your player is, how advanced your members are and where they are from etc

We do this for a lot of companies and almost all of them have different setups.
Its a tough one to answer ADG

[AsianDivaGirlsWebDude]

This isn't exactly rocket surgery - some ballpark figures would be nice, or whatever anyone else is currently using is all that I need. I can tweak it from there.

I have a fast system, edit in FCP 7, use Compressor 2, can add servers as necessary, will be using the Mansion Productions MAS CMS with a Wowza Media Server 2 to stream, with the JW Player Pro 5.2 as the player.

ADG

[munki]

With standard formats it's absolutely not rocket science, with the intricacies allowed for within the mp4 codec there are a lot of things to take into account, which I prefer to A/B/C test for each implementation setup before laying down templates for all content.

Which level vs data rate vs screen size is going to give you best results given your server setup? Do you need to use a 2 pass encode, or are your raws clean off that it's wasted render time? Is a lower level, higher resolution encode giving you better stream times and bandwidth savings vs a higher level, lower resolution?

Love to help you through some testing if you want to get a hold of me, but with mp4 format especially I would be wary of broad stroke calculations.

[MaDalton]

i use 800 kbit/s to stream - would not go over 1000

http://www.fuckthosemoms.com/join.html

too many bottlenecks between your server and the surfer for streaming HD - even when you use CDN.

[munki]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

i use 800 kbit/s to stream - would not go over 1000

http://www.fuckthosemoms.com/join.html

too many bottlenecks between your server and the surfer for streaming HD - even when you use CDN.

Could be wrong here, but your setup appears to be using php pseudo streaming... which would throw more bottlenecks into the picture, if ADG plans on moving forward and using Wowza for delivery, he will have a lot more play room with higher bandwidth delivery without similar problems.

[Tempest]

Depends on the resolution of the video... After MUCH testing etc. I've setup people with 640x360, 25fps, 1200kbs.

Youtube has:
H264, 480x270 @ 400kb
h264, 640x360 (360p) @ 650kb
H264, 854x480 (480p) @ 1000kb
H264, 1280x720 @ 2022kb
H264, 1920×1080 is being "tested".

Can't remember what the default is for sure but I think it's one of the first 2 as opposed to the legacy FLV they still have as well

Course they're also encoding videos in VP8 now for the HTML5 beta version of the site.

[MaDalton]

Originally Posted by munki

Could be wrong here, but your setup appears to be using php pseudo streaming... which would throw more bottlenecks into the picture, if ADG plans on moving forward and using Wowza for delivery, he will have a lot more play room with higher bandwidth delivery without similar problems.

there's some truth in that, but we (the webmasters) are used to have much faster internet connections than the regular folks. and you want to avoid frustration, so i would always start with a bitrate that for sure works with the big majority. then maybe let them choose a higher bitrate themselves if they think they can handle it

[munki]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

there's some truth in that, but we (the webmasters) are used to have much faster internet connections than the regular folks. and you want to avoid frustration, so i would always start with a bitrate that for sure works with the big majority. then maybe let them choose a higher bitrate themselves if they think they can handle it

I'm anal... I like making decisions for people... I tend to push for setups that detect a speed range, then deliver optimally directly to them.

[AsianDivaGirlsWebDude]

Originally Posted by munki

With standard formats it's absolutely not rocket science, with the intricacies allowed for within the mp4 codec there are a lot of things to take into account, which I prefer to A/B/C test for each implementation setup before laying down templates for all content.

Which level vs data rate vs screen size is going to give you best results given your server setup? Do you need to use a 2 pass encode, or are your raws clean off that it's wasted render time? Is a lower level, higher resolution encode giving you better stream times and bandwidth savings vs a higher level, lower resolution?

Love to help you through some testing if you want to get a hold of me, but with mp4 format especially I would be wary of broad stroke calculations.

Thanks for the info.

I'm planning to use a standard size player for the web (720x480/405 or 854x480), and 320x240 for slow connections and mobile devices.

Render time is not an issue, since I have dedicated machines for that, so I will stick with 2 pass encoding.

I'll run a few tests and then maybe hit you up for a critique and advice.

Originally Posted by MaDalton

i use 800 kbit/s to stream - would not go over 1000

http://www.fuckthosemoms.com/join.html

too many bottlenecks between your server and the surfer for streaming HD - even when you use CDN.

Thanks. Nice trailer there.

Originally Posted by Tempest

Depends on the resolution of the video... After MUCH testing etc. I've setup people with 640x360, 25fps, 1200kbs.

Youtube has:
H264, 480x270 @ 400kb
h264, 640x360 (360p) @ 650kb
H264, 854x480 (480p) @ 1000kb
H264, 1280x720 @ 2022kb
H264, 1920×1080 is being "tested".

Can't remember what the default is for sure but I think it's one of the first 2 as opposed to the legacy FLV they still have as well

Course they're also encoding videos in VP8 now for the HTML5 beta version of the site.

Thanks, I appreciate the info.

ADG

[AsianDivaGirlsWebDude]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

there's some truth in that, but we (the webmasters) are used to have much faster internet connections than the regular folks. and you want to avoid frustration, so i would always start with a bitrate that for sure works with the big majority. then maybe let them choose a higher bitrate themselves if they think they can handle it

Originally Posted by munki

I'm anal... I like making decisions for people... I tend to push for setups that detect a speed range, then deliver optimally directly to them.

The JW Player allows for bitrate switching, which can dynamically adjust video quality based on the performance of the user's internet connection, so I may use that and then just come up with a good quality base setting for those that have a good DSL connection.

ADG