I feel like speaking about the influx of recent program closures. - GoFuckYourself.com

amateurcanada · 07-20-2010, 09:54 PM

Yes, sales are down. Yes, some smaller processors seem to be paying just a little bit later then usual. Yes, recurring memberships are at a bigger decline. Yes, conversion ratios are unbelievable (and not in a good way).

From what i've seen, many closures are because the pay per sale math is completely out of balance. You cannot, with any reliability (in this economy), calculate how many members WILL occur, WILL upsell, WILL take on further debt with affiliated sites. Our customers are smarter. Paying an affiliate double/triple/quadruple the cost of a membership is risky business. You can have a few months of bad math and be busted and broke. I will not insult anyones intelligence in regards to how well their program does compared to mine. Programs like 'abbywinters' take an EXCELLENT approach to promotion. I was even declined by their process, however it proves a good point. If your hiring a sales staff to promote your brand you don't want to allow EVERYONE to plug you and perhaps tarnish the brand your trying to maintain, grow and establish. Traffic in the masses does not guarantee success.

Whats my point? Keeping legitimate sponsors in mind who roll with the punches, perhaps we should shift to a partner model - much like www.nichepartners.com has since day 1. If we make 30$ you get your share - you earned it - if your promoting to the right people, maintaining our brand, selling us in a way to promote retention, then we have a great partnership that will be profitable to us both. If I was to do pay per sale program now and offer triple the amount to you guys to lure you to my program and play that math game i'd be putting up a splash page of my failure to reasonably soon. Oh, and btw, with a list of angry people wanting cash to ;)

Maybe i've shot myself in the foot - but those of you who agree, you know where to find me

$5 submissions · 07-20-2010, 10:08 PM

Good post. PPS is on shaky ground but revshare might show some vulnerability as well. Specially if the recent "regulatory environment" in Washington re bank/credit practices translates to regulation of auto-rebills.

The Porn Nerd · 07-20-2010, 10:20 PM

PPS is the devil's playground.
Revshare remains.
Do the math.

Excellent post.

Barefootsies · 07-20-2010, 10:20 PM

Nice post and excellent read.

Thank ye fine sire.

Chosen · 07-21-2010, 12:36 AM

Good post, thanks

amateurcanada · 07-21-2010, 07:03 PM

Your right $5 submissions, this will make revshare harder, but will wipe out large pay per sale programs indeed.

goodsites · 07-21-2010, 07:08 PM

Nice quip, but the big boys don't do revshare. So if you want to waste your time with someone who just woke up and wants to start a turnkey redirection trick and sell 1000 web submission link software, by all means create a partner program. If you want the truckload of sales in a day, you better bust out your wallet, they dont do revshare

Sam - Mr. Skin · 07-21-2010, 07:55 PM

I couldn't agree more. Payouts that seem too good to be true are typically just that.

Sam Rakowski
ICQ: 564531991
Skype, Yahoo, AIM: samski1977
[email protected]

fatfoo · 07-21-2010, 11:05 PM

An open person shows his face
He must be king in human race
Sales are down is a common thread
To make more money win a bet
Increase revenue, decrease expense
Measure profit to the pence

D Ghost · 07-21-2010, 11:12 PM

I agree with your points

Rochard · 07-22-2010, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amateurcanada

You cannot, with any reliability (in this economy), calculate how many members WILL occur, WILL upsell, WILL take on further debt with affiliated sites.

You couldn't be more wrong. The equation is still the same, just the numbers have changed. If you look at your stats you'll see "X%" rebill each month. It changes from month to month, but when you compare them to prior months and then prior years a pattern emerges. Less members upsell and less members recur, but it still follows the laws of averages.

I do mostly blogs these days. I can tell you exactly what my sales will be. Every January traffic will dip slightly, and sales will drop - Christmas bills becoming due. Every summer traffic drops and sales drop - Starts in June, and comes back in September. However, this year surprised me - June was down, but July is turning out to be my best month ever. But this might be because I'm being rather aggressive about expanding my network.

Paul Markham · 07-22-2010, 03:47 AM

I agree with a lot of your pints amateurcanada. The buyer is wiser today and has more options. Getting the buyers today to support unrealistic payouts is getting harder and harder.

The companies who closed due to the new rules good fucking riddance. The affiliates who were unpaid deserved what they did not get. Both made it harder for honest people to make a living.

mikesinner · 07-22-2010, 03:51 AM

I think closing your program to anyone is a bad idea. If you want to run it like that give people a lower percentage or payout until they reach so many sales per month and then bump them up. Seems fair and you can still advertise your regular payout.

amateurcanada · 07-26-2010, 10:51 PM

No closures here mikesinner, infact we have expanded and are releasing several new unique sites and retaining features to keep people interested. Porn is fun but we need to adjust how we sell - keep the math in check and reasonably profitable.

Raf1 · 07-26-2010, 11:00 PM

I agree with this too. Nice post, even with it's promo intentions ;)

amateurcanada · 07-27-2010, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raf1

I agree with this too. Nice post, even with it's promo intentions ;)

I know I know - useful info for a price lol. Nice movie exporter tool - I remember checking you out when we designed ours lol ;)

Mefo · 07-30-2010, 12:32 AM

Well the trend is definitely that the xsell programs are going to shit... good

more money for the real revshare deals

amateurcanada · 08-03-2010, 12:07 AM

I agree Mefo! :D

baddog · 08-03-2010, 12:13 AM

I'll stick with PPS. Lifetime revshare doesn't mean what it used to.

V_RocKs · 08-03-2010, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goodsites

Nice quip, but the big boys don't do revshare. So if you want to waste your time with someone who just woke up and wants to start a turnkey redirection trick and sell 1000 web submission link software, by all means create a partner program. If you want the truckload of sales in a day, you better bust out your wallet, they dont do revshare

Right, but this type of affiliate is someone you know WILL send X number of sales in a month or you can shitcan his ass. So you can write a budget based on 6 whales, 4 semi-whales and 20 that are grouped into being very consistent... Then gamble with the remaining 18% of your business.

So Mr Whale #1 can negotiate a PPS of $42 paid up front on 1,600 sales that month. The smaller guys can do revshare and when they can do 400 to 500 sales in a month consistently, they too can negotiate for something more lucrative.

Oh and Lexi's thumb is broken
http://www.cameltoecanada.com/index....OjI6Ng,0,0,0,0

amateurcanada · 08-10-2010, 09:50 PM

V Rocks:

Definately! We secretely negotiate PPS deals for high performers - but the ratio is finely tuned to ensure profitability. (thanks for the missing link on our discount site)

Baddog:

This of course is a good option - we carry more overhead etc. as we ship out free dvds and other fun ways to retain members - in the long term we do pay more but its all about how fast you want to get paid - BELIEVE me instant gratification has always won me over heh.

amateurcanada · 10-06-2010, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatfoo

An open person shows his face
He must be king in human race
Sales are down is a common thread
To make more money win a bet
Increase revenue, decrease expense
Measure profit to the pence

I like sales.

AzteK · 10-06-2010, 09:51 PM

As a webmasters stand point, unless I have a white-label where I'm building clients, it's too risky to do a rev share with a sponsor. I want my money now, I let you worry about the rest. The most I'll trust you with is 2 weeks of commissions. If you've run a program long enough you know your numbers and what you can pay per sign up. If a webmasters referrals are not meeting your baseline then you have the option to asking them to switch to a rev share. It's over all performance that you should care about anyways.

the indigo · 10-06-2010, 10:23 PM

How can you get any sales from a site such as cameltoecanada.com with a shitty old design and full of 404's images?

Konda · 10-06-2010, 10:46 PM

It's because they all relied on selling their xsales to third parties to be able to do pps. When the banks made stricter regulations about this and the biggest xsell buyers stopped taking them (and didn't payout the last months of xsales), exactly at the same time when they got tons of money frozen at Webmaster Checks they had no option but to close their affiliate programs.

07-20-2010, 10:08 PM	#2
$5 submissions I help you SUCCEED Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The Pearl of the Orient Seas Posts: 32,195	Good post. PPS is on shaky ground but revshare might show some vulnerability as well. Specially if the recent "regulatory environment" in Washington re bank/credit practices translates to regulation of auto-rebills. __________________ Need a NON-ADULT income stream? We build your YOUTUBE CHANNEL for only $20 per video! For Hire: $3/hour or $400 per month Marketing Specialist Virtual Assistants

07-20-2010, 10:20 PM	#3
The Porn Nerd Living The Dream Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Inside a Monitor Posts: 19,496	PPS is the devil's playground. Revshare remains. Do the math. Excellent post. __________________ My Affiliate Programs: Porn Nerd Cash \| Porn Showcase \| Aggressive Gold Over 90 paysites to promote! Skype: peabodymedia

07-20-2010, 10:20 PM	#4
Barefootsies Choice is an Illusion Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Land of Obama Posts: 42,635	Nice post and excellent read. Thank ye fine sire. __________________ Should You Email Your Members? Link1 \| Link2 \| Link3 Enough Said. "Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

07-21-2010, 07:03 PM	#6
amateurcanada Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 3,766	Your right $5 submissions, this will make revshare harder, but will wipe out large pay per sale programs indeed. __________________ be our partner - join nichepartners today will.assum.producer @ AmateurCanada.com / icq: 30146166 / facebook.com/will.assum / #amateurcanada

07-21-2010, 11:05 PM	#9
fatfoo ICQ:649699063 Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 27,763	An open person shows his face He must be king in human race Sales are down is a common thread To make more money win a bet Increase revenue, decrease expense Measure profit to the pence __________________ Send me an email: [email protected]

07-20-2010, 09:54 PM	#1
amateurcanada Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 3,766	I feel like speaking about the influx of recent program closures. Yes, sales are down. Yes, some smaller processors seem to be paying just a little bit later then usual. Yes, recurring memberships are at a bigger decline. Yes, conversion ratios are unbelievable (and not in a good way). From what i've seen, many closures are because the pay per sale math is completely out of balance. You cannot, with any reliability (in this economy), calculate how many members WILL occur, WILL upsell, WILL take on further debt with affiliated sites. Our customers are smarter. Paying an affiliate double/triple/quadruple the cost of a membership is risky business. You can have a few months of bad math and be busted and broke. I will not insult anyones intelligence in regards to how well their program does compared to mine. Programs like 'abbywinters' take an EXCELLENT approach to promotion. I was even declined by their process, however it proves a good point. If your hiring a sales staff to promote your brand you don't want to allow EVERYONE to plug you and perhaps tarnish the brand your trying to maintain, grow and establish. Traffic in the masses does not guarantee success. Whats my point? Keeping legitimate sponsors in mind who roll with the punches, perhaps we should shift to a partner model - much like www.nichepartners.com has since day 1. If we make 30$ you get your share - you earned it - if your promoting to the right people, maintaining our brand, selling us in a way to promote retention, then we have a great partnership that will be profitable to us both. If I was to do pay per sale program now and offer triple the amount to you guys to lure you to my program and play that math game i'd be putting up a splash page of my failure to reasonably soon. Oh, and btw, with a list of angry people wanting cash to ;) Maybe i've shot myself in the foot - but those of you who agree, you know where to find me __________________ be our partner - join nichepartners today will.assum.producer @ AmateurCanada.com / icq: 30146166 / facebook.com/will.assum / #amateurcanada

07-21-2010, 12:36 AM	#5
Chosen VIPPay.com \| AdultWebSponsors.com Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 63,151	Good post, thanks

07-21-2010, 07:08 PM	#7
goodsites Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Over the rainbows Posts: 538	Nice quip, but the big boys don't do revshare. So if you want to waste your time with someone who just woke up and wants to start a turnkey redirection trick and sell 1000 web submission link software, by all means create a partner program. If you want the truckload of sales in a day, you better bust out your wallet, they dont do revshare

07-21-2010, 07:55 PM	#8
Sam - Mr. Skin Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,688	I couldn't agree more. Payouts that seem too good to be true are typically just that. Sam Rakowski ICQ: 564531991 Skype, Yahoo, AIM: samski1977 [email protected]

07-21-2010, 11:12 PM	#10
D Ghost null Industry Role: Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 9,820	I agree with your points

07-22-2010, 03:47 AM	#12
Paul Markham Too old to care Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: On the sofa, watching TV or doing my jigsaws. Posts: 52,943	I agree with a lot of your pints amateurcanada. The buyer is wiser today and has more options. Getting the buyers today to support unrealistic payouts is getting harder and harder. The companies who closed due to the new rules good fucking riddance. The affiliates who were unpaid deserved what they did not get. Both made it harder for honest people to make a living. __________________ Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500. PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

07-22-2010, 03:51 AM	#13
mikesinner Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 5,646	I think closing your program to anyone is a bad idea. If you want to run it like that give people a lower percentage or payout until they reach so many sales per month and then bump them up. Seems fair and you can still advertise your regular payout. __________________ My Best Sponsors MPl l Camsl CUMSHOTSl LESBIANSl FETISHl BJ RACESl TEEN BJl BSDMl VODl USE YOUR PC TO CURE CANCER

07-26-2010, 10:51 PM	#14
amateurcanada Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 3,766	No closures here mikesinner, infact we have expanded and are releasing several new unique sites and retaining features to keep people interested. Porn is fun but we need to adjust how we sell - keep the math in check and reasonably profitable. __________________ be our partner - join nichepartners today will.assum.producer @ AmateurCanada.com / icq: 30146166 / facebook.com/will.assum / #amateurcanada

07-26-2010, 11:00 PM	#15
Raf1 Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Writer for hire :) Gallery descriptions, articles, blog posts etc. ICQ: 209 356 106 Posts: 12,117	I agree with this too. Nice post, even with it's promo intentions ;) __________________ 80% Revshare or 30$ PPS on $1 trials: 200 Niches = Vidz.com Galleries / FLVs / Embeds 3 & 5mins FLVs \| RSS & Tube Feeds \| Matching Thumbs \| FLV Browser & Exporter \| No Prechecked Xsales >> Mobile Redirection Script: mobile.vidz.com also paying 80% net Lifetime << ICQ: 198-394-557

07-30-2010, 12:32 AM	#17
Mefo Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 6,169	Well the trend is definitely that the xsell programs are going to shit... good more money for the real revshare deals __________________

08-03-2010, 12:07 AM	#18
amateurcanada Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 3,766	I agree Mefo! :D __________________ be our partner - join nichepartners today will.assum.producer @ AmateurCanada.com / icq: 30146166 / facebook.com/will.assum / #amateurcanada

08-03-2010, 12:13 AM	#19
baddog So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: the beach, SoCal Posts: 107,090	I'll stick with PPS. Lifetime revshare doesn't mean what it used to.

08-10-2010, 09:50 PM	#21
amateurcanada Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 3,766	V Rocks: Definately! We secretely negotiate PPS deals for high performers - but the ratio is finely tuned to ensure profitability. (thanks for the missing link on our discount site) Baddog: This of course is a good option - we carry more overhead etc. as we ship out free dvds and other fun ways to retain members - in the long term we do pay more but its all about how fast you want to get paid - BELIEVE me instant gratification has always won me over heh. __________________ be our partner - join nichepartners today will.assum.producer @ AmateurCanada.com / icq: 30146166 / facebook.com/will.assum / #amateurcanada

10-06-2010, 09:51 PM	#23
AzteK Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Northern Cali, USA Posts: 3,439	As a webmasters stand point, unless I have a white-label where I'm building clients, it's too risky to do a rev share with a sponsor. I want my money now, I let you worry about the rest. The most I'll trust you with is 2 weeks of commissions. If you've run a program long enough you know your numbers and what you can pay per sign up. If a webmasters referrals are not meeting your baseline then you have the option to asking them to switch to a rev share. It's over all performance that you should care about anyways.

10-06-2010, 10:23 PM	#24
the indigo Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: North America Posts: 2,016	How can you get any sales from a site such as cameltoecanada.com with a shitty old design and full of 404's images? __________________ "There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die." -Hunter S. Thompson

10-06-2010, 10:46 PM	#25
Konda ... Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 2,280	It's because they all relied on selling their xsales to third parties to be able to do pps. When the banks made stricter regulations about this and the biggest xsell buyers stopped taking them (and didn't payout the last months of xsales), exactly at the same time when they got tons of money frozen at Webmaster Checks they had no option but to close their affiliate programs.