USA/America WILL NOT recover for the next 50 years+

[MetaMan]

The fact is Americans are not willing to do anything to help their own country. Everyone in the USA wants to be paid 80k for screwing car doors on.

Corporations are leaving in droves and anyone left with money will keep hiring less and less people as workers get more and more "rights".

They have been monitoring regular citizens and giving the excuse of terroism. Why? It is becuase of the per gun capita in the USA. And the leaders realized long ago what is happening and are taking measures to make sure there will not be a revolt.

Majority of americans do not know outside of their square block area and in a global economy that just does not cut it.

Also with the cost of labor and unions keeping it that way will basically get rid of any remaining jobs.

The fact is the USA is in massive trouble and its citizens refuse to work their way out of it. they will continue to borrow and foreign countries will continue to buy up everything.

the free ride is over. i feel really bad you guys dont even respect yourselves enough to stand up and do anything about it. back in the day america was proud and there would have been a revolt by now. now adays you guys would rather blame someone else instead of blaming yourselves.

just wait until they invade iran. then you are really screwed.

[Deej]

u jealous of our illegitimate superiority

Run n hide!!!

[MetaMan]

Originally Posted by Deej

u jealous of our illegitimate superiority

Run n hide!!!

I love the USA, my dad is a citizen. i love it more than most americans, but you guys refuse to help yourself.

i have personal interest in your country recovering and i would like to say i hope i am wrong but i am not.

the gap between rich and poor will be complete when sarah palin takes over office.

they are making the public school kids stupid on purpose. the only people who will be able to afford any real education will be the rich.

the fact that the majority of americans choose a "party" no matter what they do shows the lack of caring in your country. you would rather watch TV, eat chips and have someone else talk care of your problems. ie mommy state.

both sides long ago realized they made the regular population dumb enough that they can just continue to team up and rape the average man.

[Bill8]

there's an inherent contradiction in your rant.

you are arguing that americans will be better off by lowering their standard of living and accelerating the income gap.

maybe you are right, in that we americans will have to accept a lower standard of living, like it or not, as corporations move manufacturing and other well-paying lower-middle-class jobs to the cheap-as-slaves labor of the third world.

just like we have to accept income inequality from now on.

this is the new american dream - to be allowed to work at walmart or mcdonalds, because you aren't allowed to get a cushy government job with real benefits.

and we only need a tiny class to run wall street and the american offices of multinationals.

[MetaMan]

Originally Posted by Bill8

there's an inherent contradiction in your rant.

you are arguing that americans will be better off by lowering their standard of living and accelerating the income gap.

maybe you are right, in that we americans will have to accept a lower standard of living, like it or not, as corporations move manufacturing and other well-paying lower-middle-class jobs to the cheap-as-slaves labor of the third world.

just like we have to accept income inequality from now on.

this is the new american dream - to be allowed to work at walmart or mcdonalds, because you aren't allowed to get a cushy government job with real benefits.

and we only need a tiny class to run wall street and the american offices of multinationals.

this is not a rant, my dad was in manufacturing lost his job many times. this is not a cuss to america. i want you guys to recover but you refuse to stand up and do anything about it.

you guys have 25 news stations on cable in some places. constantly bombarding the public with spinning info. blinding the population from what is really going on. but instead of everyone turning off your tv set and going to work or do something about it you choose not too.

yes i do think that you do have to lower your standard of living.

lets get real the avg american thinks they are "too good" to work at mcdonalds NO MATTER WHAT THE CIRCUMSTANCES. majority of people would rather collect a govt check.

and lets get real about the "immigration problem". the problem is americans do not want these types of jobs. and it is immigrants who filled it.

how are you going to have a fruit farm and hire americans? everyone is extremely overweight.

how is a nation supposed to re build itself when they are too fat to do manual labor for more than 5 minutes at a time? this is not a joke. tell me how please if you have an answer.

[trevesty]

The US is one of the most backwards countries in the world.

But I live in the Midwest, so I'm surrounded by moronic Bible thumpers who think(wish) it was still 500A.D.

[billywatson]

Originally Posted by MetaMan

the free ride is over.

The free ride.

What free ride? You mean the part where we liberated the free world from tyranny and fascism?

That free ride?

If you think the Russians or the Japanese or the Germans would have won WWII they would have treated the rest of the world like the US has?

Look -- we ain't perfect. That's certain...but we're the best Super Power in the history of the world, which includes The Brits and The Spanish and The French.

Wait til it's over and China is running shit. Let's see how you're feeling then.

[trevesty]

Originally Posted by billywatson

The free ride.

What free ride? You mean the part where we liberated the free world from tyranny and fascism?

That free ride?

If you think the Russians or the Japanese or the Germans would have won WWII they would have treated the rest of the world like the US has?

Look -- we ain't perfect. That's certain...but we're the best Super Power in the history of the world, which includes The Brits and The Spanish and The French.

Wait til it's over and China is running shit. Let's see how you're feeling then.

But the Russians did win WWII.

[Bill8]

we will however need a huge military to fullfill our manifest destiny as the world police for the multinationals.

we americans get to pay for the defense of the multinationals, but all the profits go to the shareholders. if you aren't a shareholder - well, thats your own fucking problem I guess.

it's the new american priviledge, lots of cushy government jobs in the military, policeing unruly workers and inconveinient populations getting uppity to the corporations.

[MetaMan]

Originally Posted by billywatson

The free ride.

What free ride? You mean the part where we liberated the free world from tyranny and fascism?

That free ride?

If you think the Russians or the Japanese or the Germans would have won WWII they would have treated the rest of the world like the US has?

Look -- we ain't perfect. That's certain...but we're the best Super Power in the history of the world, which includes The Brits and The Spanish and The French.

Wait til it's over and China is running shit. Let's see how you're feeling then.

you are the problem right there this is the year 2010. not 1945. why are you still waving your flag in my face about 1945?

you arent really that stupid to think that america would really ever go to war except to further their own interests are you?

let me tell you how it works. the americans go into countries who are unstable, choose a side. fund their weapons and tell the leader of that side. "if you back us after we back you you can be in power forever". then they loan these leaders money putting the "future country" into massive debt.

they then force these countries to re pay the debt that they knew they could not pay by taking things like natural resources or minerals from the country they "helped".

do you know who the Sha of Iran is? do you people have any idea about history? you are really convinced you went into WW2 to save the world? it is almost mind boggling.

Please stop believing the Americans go into places to help. it is mind boggling the stuff you people believe.

[MetaMan]

Originally Posted by Bill8

we will however need a huge military to fullfill our manifest destiny as the world police for the multinationals.

we americans get to pay for the defense of the multinationals, but all the profits go to the shareholders. if you aren't a shareholder - well, thats your own fucking problem I guess.

it's the new american priviledge, lots of cushy government jobs in the military, policeing unruly workers and inconveinient populations getting uppity to the corporations.

you arent going to have any corporations left to run. they are all being bought out by the chinese and india.

let me explain something. china back in the day was not stupid, they knew longterm that at the pace america was moving over manufacturing that they could never put the door back on the cage. the chinese had the americans pay them in USD on purpose knowing that what was left in the USA was going to crumble as the middle class got rotted away.

they then took americas money and re purchased your country at a fire sale rate compared to what it was built for. it is happening now.

[Bill8]

Originally Posted by MetaMan

how is a nation supposed to re build itself when they are too fat to do manual labor for more than 5 minutes at a time? this is not a joke. tell me how please if you have an answer.

all valid criticisms.

and I tend to agree with your suggestion that it would take 50 years to recover from the bad choices we made in the past thirty years.

I say "would", because you are leaving out a cluster of other factors that affect the problem, resource depletion and the inevitable rise in the real cost of energy being at the top of the list. these factors make a recovery even less likely.

we gave up our chance to transform into being the top producing economy in the world, choosing instead to live off our capital and debt.

There are things we could do, but we lack the political will and we won't do them.

[billywatson]

Originally Posted by MetaMan

you are the problem right there this is the year 2010. not 1945. why are you still waving your flag in my face about 1945?

you arent really that stupid to think that america would really ever go to war except to further their own interests are you?

let me tell you how it works. the americans go into countries who are unstable, choose a side. fund their weapons and tell the leader of that side. "if you back us after we back you you can be in power forever". then they loan these leaders money putting the "future country" into massive debt.

they then force these countries to re pay the debt that they knew they could not pay by taking things like natural resources or minerals from the country they "helped".

do you know who the Sha of Iran is? do you people have any idea about history? you are really convinced you went into WW2 to save the world? it is almost mind boggling.

Please stop believing the Americans go into places to help. it is mind boggling the stuff you people believe.

The conclusion of WWII was only the beginning.

Again, let's test your reading comprehension: America is not perfect.

Of course we protect our interest. Isn't that natural?

Look, bro, if you think America is bad, what do think would have happened if, say, Germany developed The Bomb first. Or Russia?

America is no different than the previous world powers our history has experienced; however, we're the best.

That's a fact.

So keep hating. Keep it up, Mr. Smart Guy. Cause you know it all, huh?

[dyna mo]

more wisdom from this guy, lolz. same guy who thinks the jews were behind 9/11 and *fuck the customer* is a viable business model.

[Bill8]

Originally Posted by MetaMan

you arent going to have any corporations left to run. they are all being bought out by the chinese and india.

I'm not saying we will be defending AMERICAN corporations.

we will be, as we are now, doing military services for the multinationals. it's the multinationals that are in charge of america now.

we don't even make decent movies and entertainment anymore, but we do still have the best weapons, altho their component parts are made in china.

[MetaMan]

Originally Posted by billywatson

The conclusion of WWII was only the beginning.

Again, let's test your reading comprehension: America is not perfect.

Of course we protect our interest. Isn't that natural?

Look, bro, if you think America is bad, what do think would have happened if, say, Germany developed The Bomb first. Or Russia?

America is no different than the previous world powers our history has experienced; however, we're the best.

That's a fact.

So keep hating. Keep it up, Mr. Smart Guy. Cause you know it all, huh?

Hmmmm see this is what I mean. I am bringing up valid points and all you can come up with is excuses about other countries. what does russia or germany have to do with the convo exactly?

or the bomb for that matter?

that is the entire point. you look to place blame on anywhere but yourselves. not everyone is like that.

this is not a hate on america thread. this is a please wake up you guys have a really great country but for some reason just do not want to save it it seems.

i do know alot. i read everyday multiple sources. i study on topics. not just read them in the newspaper and comment. just because i am right and you dont like it does not make me a "mr know it all".

this is the same thing your country does to the rich.

"o they are rich they never worked for it". i know things because i study them no other reason.

[TheDoc]

Shoot, we only need to stop wars, remove all aid, cut corp capital gains tax, close a majority of gov departments/reduce the size of them, reduce military size, put that money towards our vets! Give high income tax breaks who reinvest locally, regulate medical costs, criminalize hiring illegal immigrants, remove personal rights given to corps & political donations from them, criminalize lobbying and gifts, require every corp/state/city that has had a bailout/stimulus money to pay it back, remove the ability for Gov/States/Cities to invest money into Corporations & liquidate State investment funds to pay off debts and the rest to the citizens, drop the drinking age to 18 and increase the sin tax to pay for roads (why the drinking age is 21), remove the Feds power that regulates the States ability to buy/sell natural resources, open the fed reserve for audit-credit the payments back over history correctly-remove interest applied on our own money-credit that interest back to us to remove the deficit completely..... as you can see, just to start we only need a few minor adjustments and the ball will be moving perfectly fine.

[Socks]

For my life, I don't want to be part of a corporation as such. Vicious circle: Work hard, get a degree, take a minimum job, bust ass, ignore family, get a few promotions if you're lucky, hate your job after 3-5 years, go into deep depression because everything you worked for wasn't even worth it. Lose wife to another man who actually spends time with them.

Instead, I'll start my various projects for normal amounts of money, move to a country like Mexico where the government doesn't stand a chance of controlling their population, and do stuff like grow vegetables, learn to make sausages, read books, and spend time with my family.

Everyone really needs to ask themselves what they want to be doing when they're older... Then ask themselves seriously - why aren't they doing it already?

I don't see a good future in America or Canada. Every job that gets advertised is for a certain part of the machine now. It's rare to find a job that's creative, and EVERY intelligent worker wants that creative job, so good luck finding one.

When my dad applied to be a police officer here in the late 70's, he walked in unannounced, sat down with the chief, and he said "Son, I understand you want to be a police officer." My dad said he did. The chief asked why. He rambled on for a few minutes about helping people. Then the chief reached across the table, and said "Welcome to the force, son".

Times done changed.

[Kiopa_Matt]

Originally Posted by MetaMan

Everyone in the USA wants to be paid 80k for screwing car doors on.

Wouldn't go that far, but yes, many are complacent.

Originally Posted by MetaMan

Corporations are leaving in droves

Most of them left a long time ago.

Originally Posted by MetaMan

i feel really bad you guys dont even respect yourselves enough to stand up and do anything about it. back in the day america was proud and there would have been a revolt by now.

And who exactly would you like to revolt against? Sure, you can revolt, and even have a revolution that kills every current living politician in power. Still won't change fuck all. I guess you could revolt against China, but that probably wouldn't get you far. Piss them off too much, and they'll just dump their treasury bonds onto the market, putting every US citizen is a far worst position.

[BFT3K]

[notime]

Originally Posted by Bill8

I'm not saying we will be defending AMERICAN corporations.

we will be, as we are now, doing military services for the multinationals. it's the multinationals that are in charge of america now.

we don't even make decent movies and entertainment anymore, but we do still have the best weapons, altho their component parts are made in china.

This is a porn board.
Post titties and naked women please

[Bill8]

Originally Posted by notime

This is a porn board.
Post titties and naked women please

porn is work for me, I debate politics and economics for entertainment.

it's perverse, I know.

I got hard drives full of pics of cute girls getting fucked, I must be crazy to get pleasure from thinking about rhetoric and rants.

[Rochard]

I disagree. I've been working my ass off and I've been well paid. Although I'm tired of 12 hour days for the past ten years.

The problem the world is getting smaller and smaller. Thirty years ago if you wanted to create a new product from scratch - say a bottle opener or a lighter - you had to do it locally. Flying to China to find someone to do it at one fifth the price of what it can be done in the US wasn't really possible then. Now with the Internet you don't even have to leave your house and you can line up everything within a few hours.

Same thing with call centers. I used to be a telephone operator making $70k a year, which I thought was funny because we were so over paid. Now you pick up the phone and your getting someone in India. Work as an accountant? Same thing. Pretty soon you won't hire an accountant in the US, you'll hire someone from India.

In the near future, any job that can be done online or in another country will be done in another country. Accounting, programming, any kind of customer support, etc... The only businesses that will survive in the US will be the kinds of trades that can only be done in the US - such as building houses, repair work, etc.

We are so fucked.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by billywatson

The free ride.

What free ride? You mean the part where we liberated the free world from tyranny and fascism?

That free ride?

If you think the Russians or the Japanese or the Germans would have won WWII they would have treated the rest of the world like the US has?

Look -- we ain't perfect. That's certain...but we're the best Super Power in the history of the world, which includes The Brits and The Spanish and The French.

Wait til it's over and China is running shit. Let's see how you're feeling then.

the romans had 200 years of peace.

[notime]

Originally Posted by Bill8

porn is work for me, I debate politics and economics for entertainment.

it's perverse, I know.

I got hard drives full of pics of cute girls getting fucked, I must be crazy to get pleasure from thinking about rhetoric and rants.

Post some titties
You can do it !

[howardzinn]

He's arguing for the collapse of the middle class. Yup when the middle class is gone and you just have a ultra wealthy 3% and a poor as dirt 97% the manufacturing industries might come back from China ad pay you $3 per hour.

Problem with the western paradigm of globalisation is that the corporations send their manufacturing industries overseas, sure you get cheap ass big screen TVs, but when a country makes nothing (and most of the wealth is financial market gambling) it's easy to fall into a deep hole with unemployment and spiraling debt.

The govt gave corporations tax cuts as they sent work overseas. Now the middle class is shrinking but corporate profits are higher than ever and the disparity of wealth is higher than ever.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by howardzinn

He's arguing for the collapse of the middle class. Yup when the middle class is gone and you just have a ultra wealthy 3% and a poor as dirt 97% the manufacturing industries might come back from China ad pay you $3 per hour.

Problem with the western paradigm of globalisation is that the corporations send their manufacturing industries overseas, sure you get cheap ass big screen TVs, but when a country makes nothing (and most of the wealth is financial market gambling) it's easy to fall into a deep hole with unemployment and spiraling debt.

The govt gave corporations tax cuts as they sent work overseas. Now the middle class is shrinking but corporate profits are higher than ever and the disparity of wealth is higher than ever.

but, they were just being competitive! in a market they controlled for x amount of years....

[Deej]

Originally Posted by MetaMan

I love the USA, my dad is a citizen. i love it more than most americans, but you guys refuse to help yourself.

i have personal interest in your country recovering and i would like to say i hope i am wrong but i am not.

the gap between rich and poor will be complete when sarah palin takes over office.

they are making the public school kids stupid on purpose. the only people who will be able to afford any real education will be the rich.

the fact that the majority of americans choose a "party" no matter what they do shows the lack of caring in your country. you would rather watch TV, eat chips and have someone else talk care of your problems. ie mommy state.

both sides long ago realized they made the regular population dumb enough that they can just continue to team up and rape the average man.

I agree with these words...

I do not choose because neither is right nor truthful yet holding their own alternate agendas.

Its all bullshit and I have been screaming revolution since I was 12 and have been trying to figure out this resurrection thing and bring back jefferson and adams to instill some honesty and hope in this nation.

But I am yet one man. I know a guy, my age, that would be a great voice to reason with. He would do good. You cant just pick a guy out and prove to the world that he is a leader and some one to follow. This is not the America that it once was. This is not the world that it once was.

Anyway, this nation as a whole is too far gone and dumbened that I too see no change any time soon.

[Bill8]

Originally Posted by notime

Post some titties
You can do it !

that _is_ funny.

but if I post from one of my domains its trivial to get my real name, and since my business isn't based on providing services to other webmasters, I prefer to keep enough practical anonymity to preserve the illusion of internet anonymity.

especially now that the biz is declining - a big percentage of webmasters are wisely going into "conserve what you got" mode, waiting to see what the next stable business model will be. I am, for sure. that includes the illusion of practical anonymity.

and I ain't gonna start a pic hosting account anywhere to post porn to a pornbiz board. any pic I got somebody else also has. you, probably.

[notime]

Originally Posted by howardzinn

He's arguing for the collapse of the middle class. Yup when the middle class is gone and you just have a ultra wealthy 3% and a poor as dirt 97% the manufacturing industries might come back from China ad pay you $3 per hour.

Problem with the western paradigm of globalisation is that the corporations send their manufacturing industries overseas, sure you get cheap ass big screen TVs, but when a country makes nothing (and most of the wealth is financial market gambling) it's easy to fall into a deep hole with unemployment and spiraling debt.

The govt gave corporations tax cuts as they sent work overseas. Now the middle class is shrinking but corporate profits are higher than ever and the disparity of wealth is higher than ever.

China and october 3rd seem to be important somehow for Nostradamus' predictions:

At the great battle of Armageddon
Shall join the crusade through rows totally attached
The pertanious army of God against the army of the evil Serpent
The Dragon shall be loosened on October third

source: http://www.crystalinks.com/quatrains...retations.html

Which I found thru http://www.gfy.com/fucking-around-and-business-discussion/38665-prediction.html due to a typo in a search.

Weird I tell you.

[rogueteens]

Originally Posted by billywatson

The free ride.

What free ride? You mean the part where we liberated the free world from tyranny and fascism?

That free ride?

If you think the Russians or the Japanese or the Germans would have won WWII they would have treated the rest of the world like the US has?

Look -- we ain't perfect. That's certain...but we're the best Super Power in the history of the world, which includes The Brits and The Spanish and The French.

Wait til it's over and China is running shit. Let's see how you're feeling then.

LOL, Best post ever! What a way to go on proving that american education is substandard! :D

[rogueteens]

Originally Posted by billywatson

The free ride.

What free ride? You mean the part where we liberated the free world from tyranny and fascism?

That free ride?

No you didnt, there was MANY other countries involved on the allied side, and anyway, america only joined in once it ensured that it would be very well paid for it's involvement.

Originally Posted by billywatson

If you think the Russians or the Japanese or the Germans would have won WWII they would have treated the rest of the world like the US has?

Russia did win!!

Originally Posted by billywatson

Look -- we ain't perfect. That's certain...but we're the best Super Power in the history of the world, which includes The Brits and The Spanish and The French.

Wait til it's over and China is running shit. Let's see how you're feeling then.

Err! No, the British Empire is the largest the world has ever seen, under ALL criteria's (size, population, ect ..) The British Empire is the biggest and most powerful superpower the world has seen.

[notime]

Originally Posted by Bill8

that _is_ funny.

but if I post from one of my domains its trivial to get my real name, and since my business isn't based on providing services to other webmasters, I prefer to keep enough practical anonymity to preserve the illusion of internet anonymity.

especially now that the biz is declining - a big percentage of webmasters are wisely going into "conserve what you got" mode, waiting to see what the next stable business model will be. I am, for sure. that includes the illusion of practical anonymity.

and I ain't gonna start a pic hosting account anywhere to post porn to a pornbiz board. any pic I got somebody else also has. you, probably.

I apologise. I was not trying to be funny or have you post actual pictures.

The "illusion of practical anonymity" regarding, I quote: "Now that the biz is declining - a big percentage of webmasters are wisely going into "conserve what you got" mode, waiting to see what the next stable business model will be".

The fear and people being insecure part I understand but the "The illusion of practical anonymity" needs more detailed explaining for me to understand what you mean.

[Bill8]

Originally Posted by notime

The fear and people being insecure part I understand but the "The illusion of practical anonymity" needs more detailed explaining for me to understand what you mean.

I mean that it's an illusion that we have anonymity on the internet. you can take some practical steps to control the information about yourself you reveal, like knowing that anybody can use whois to get your real name if you are not paying for privacy, and can at least figure out where you host, look at your sponsor IDs, see how you run your business.

so we have "practical anonymity" if we practice basic net hygeine; but really, if somebody seriously wanted to find out who was behind a nick, there's a decent chance they could.

and for sure the government could. probably most corporations easily could. privacy is an illusion.

[notime]

Originally Posted by Bill8

I mean that it's an illusion that we have anonymity on the internet. you can take some practical steps to control the information about yourself you reveal, like knowing that anybody can use whois to get your real name if you are not paying for privacy, and can at least figure out where you host, look at your sponsor IDs, see how you run your business.

so we have "practical anonymity" if we practice basic net hygeine; but really, if somebody seriously wanted to find out who was behind a nick, there's a decent chance they could.

and for sure the government could. probably most corporations easily could. privacy is an illusion.

I don't have a problem with goverment or anybody else to know what I do and how I look or what I think. I do nothing wrong and pay all taxes.
My pic is me, my email is me, the whois is me too.
Being open & public creates more trust then it creates threats is my believe.
Know your customer I hear a lot but know your supplier nobody speaks off.

[billywatson]

Originally Posted by rogueteens

LOL, Best post ever! What a way to go on proving that american education is substandard! :D

Uh huh.

Substandard.

[billywatson]

Originally Posted by rogueteens

No you didnt, there was MANY other countries involved on the allied side, and anyway, america only joined in once it ensured that it would be very well paid for it's involvement.



Russia did win!!




Err! No, the British Empire is the largest the world has ever seen, under ALL criteria's (size, population, ect ..) The British Empire is the biggest and most powerful superpower the world has seen.

Russia is lucky the US didn't behave like the Russians -- or Germans -- would have behaved if they discovered the Bomb. Hitler would have bombed the Russians into oblivion and wouldn't have taken a second to make that decision.

If Russia got the bomb, we'd all be living under a Communist Regime, wearing the same state-issued clothes and sitting on the same state-issued furniture and watching one of three state-run TV channels. And none of us would be in adult, cause we would have been executed...or at the least imprisoned.

Some argue the US's biggest mistake wasn't continuing through Berlin to Moscow and taken Russia as well. With 25 million plus Russian casualties and a worn-out army, the US the only country to have a nuclear arsenal...it would have been a cake walk.

So yea, uh huh...the Russians won.

Gosh you're smart.

If only I had your education. (In the mean time, brush up on your grammar and punctuation, dumb ass).

[The Demon]

Originally Posted by Bill8

there's an inherent contradiction in your rant.

you are arguing that americans will be better off by lowering their standard of living and accelerating the income gap.

What America would be better off doing is decreasing outsourcing even at the expense of corporate profits. The economy fares much better when there is little unemployment because little unemployment=more manufacturing=more exports=less trade deficit=more consumers spending.


But we won't get rid of our debt as long as mainstream economists still exist with their keynesian bullshit. No, we'll end up defaulting on our debt, collapsing, and starting fresh.

[Phoenix66]

Originally Posted by howardzinn

The govt gave corporations tax cuts as they sent work overseas. Now the middle class is shrinking but corporate profits are higher than ever and the disparity of wealth is higher than ever.

Well, let me ask you - what are the corporations? What holds them from going to China completely? You do realize, that those several very rich people who make all decisions in corporations can very well move to any other country and incorporate there, thus not paying any US taxes at all? Does it really make a difference where you live when you are rich as king?

[Bill8]

Originally Posted by notime

I don't have a problem with goverment or anybody else to know what I do and how I look or what I think. I do nothing wrong and pay all taxes.
My pic is me, my email is me, the whois is me too.
Being open & public creates more trust then it creates threats is my believe.
Know your customer I hear a lot but know your supplier nobody speaks off.

you are northwestern euro, a pretty civilized place, affording all the protections of an old less sexually repressed society.

I live in the american country, hundreds of kilometers from the nearest big city.

understand that I believe that here, the illision of anonymity is a business asset.

and you probably don't face political upheaval, gun waving lower class boomers, and a police state mentality any time soon. probably.

[theking]

Originally Posted by MetaMan

The fact is Americans are not willing to do anything to help their own country. Everyone in the USA wants to be paid 80k for screwing car doors on.

Corporations are leaving in droves and anyone left with money will keep hiring less and less people as workers get more and more "rights".

They have been monitoring regular citizens and giving the excuse of terroism. Why? It is becuase of the per gun capita in the USA. And the leaders realized long ago what is happening and are taking measures to make sure there will not be a revolt.

Majority of americans do not know outside of their square block area and in a global economy that just does not cut it.

Also with the cost of labor and unions keeping it that way will basically get rid of any remaining jobs.

The fact is the USA is in massive trouble and its citizens refuse to work their way out of it. they will continue to borrow and foreign countries will continue to buy up everything.

the free ride is over. i feel really bad you guys dont even respect yourselves enough to stand up and do anything about it. back in the day america was proud and there would have been a revolt by now. now adays you guys would rather blame someone else instead of blaming yourselves.

just wait until they invade iran. then you are really screwed.

"Also with the cost of labor and unions keeping it that way will basically get rid of any remaining jobs."

Hmm...in 1945 private sector union jobs was at 33.9% and in 2009...it was at 7.2%.

So how is it the fault of the unions?

[woj]

Originally Posted by Phoenix66

Well, let me ask you - what are the corporations? What holds them from going to China completely? You do realize, that those several very rich people who make all decisions in corporations can very well move to any other country and incorporate there, thus not paying any US taxes at all? Does it really make a difference where you live when you are rich as king?

surprising that more people don't realize that...

[Bill8]

Originally Posted by The Demon

What America would be better off doing is decreasing outsourcing even at the expense of corporate profits. The economy fares much better when there is little unemployment because little unemployment=more manufacturing=more exports=less trade deficit=more consumers spending.


But we won't get rid of our debt as long as mainstream economists still exist with their keynesian bullshit. No, we'll end up defaulting on our debt, collapsing, and starting fresh.

I agree generally with your first argument, altho I think you need to state the "how it's done" more clearly, cuz that's the trick. and your last sentence is more philosophical and editorial than practical. but who among us doesn't editorialize?

you may or may not have read what I said in posts to vendzilla, in which I suggested that the government should declare keeping a manufacturing base a national security priority, and take steps to make sure a next generation of manufacturing industries, and the infrastructure to support them, is built inside this country. I prposed funding this with money that is now spent on our military empire.

of course there are obvious problems with that. still, it has the advantage of being potentially doable, politically. it neatly yokes together nationalism and managed economy.

---

economists are servants who say what they are paid to say, to justify the current business models of their time. blaming the economists is a pleasure, but economists are not the cause of any of this.

so, you need to be more explicit about what you actually mean, about what the _economy_, which is all of us collectively, is doing wrong.

and what can be done, practically speaking, about it.

right now, we are being beaten economically by other more managed economies that are arguably more keynesian than we are - so it's not centrally managed fiat currency alone which is doing us in.

thats the global question - will government managed economies defeat invisible hand economies?

[notime]

Originally Posted by Bill8

you are northwestern euro, a pretty civilized place, affording all the protections of an old less sexually repressed society.

I live in the american country, hundreds of kilometers from the nearest big city.

understand that I believe that here, the illision of anonymity is a business asset.

and you probably don't face political upheaval, gun waving lower class boomers, and a police state mentality any time soon. probably.

The beauty of democracy is the freedom of speech. Use it in the good way.

Pay taxes so the elderly have a decent live and do contribute to the world overall.

My grandparents are in a good retirement home after I moved them from a standard one. Standard is just awfull. I am happy to chip in to take care of my family and the elderly who brought us democracy, freedom and a real chance thru blood, sweat and tears.

I don't need a rolex, a yacht or a bugatti veyron ego trip. I want my (grand)parents to be taken care off by my government and not just have one shower per week or get shitty food.

[Phoenix66]

Originally Posted by billywatson

Russia is lucky the US didn't behave like the Russians -- or Germans -- would have behaved if they discovered the Bomb. Hitler would have bombed the Russians into oblivion, and wouldn't have taken a second to make that decision.

Some argue the US's biggest mistake wasn't continuing through Berlin to Moscow and taken Russia as well. With 25 million plus Russian casualties and the US the only country to have a nuclear arsenal, it would have been a cake walk.

This could not happen. Those bombs were experimental and hard to make yet their destructive power was not as big as you imagine. It was quite impressive to blow up a couple of cities with mostly wooden buildings, but it would not cause much casualties to the armies, spread out and mostly covered.

For example, in Hiroshima 70'000 people died from the explosion and 60'000 from radiation poisoning after. But they did not know what to expect, they did not take shelters from just one plane. And during the bombing of Dresden where only conventional weapons were used about 25'000 people were killed. Obviously most of the population took shelters then. In other words - atomic bombs did not give that huge advantage over conventional weapons then, except for their demoralizing effect.

Effective radius of 20kt a-bomb is about 1km. In the field you can wipe out one military division with that, but there will be plenty left.

And at the end of war soviet army was well equipped (for essential part it was thanks to USA, I give you that) and very experienced. I doubt USA could win over them considering they were fighting overseas and would have to bring everything into Europe at large expenses.

[RogerV]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Shoot, we only need to stop wars, remove all aid, cut corp capital gains tax, close a majority of gov departments/reduce the size of them, reduce military size, put that money towards our vets! Give high income tax breaks who reinvest locally, regulate medical costs, criminalize hiring illegal immigrants, remove personal rights given to corps & political donations from them, criminalize lobbying and gifts, require every corp/state/city that has had a bailout/stimulus money to pay it back, remove the ability for Gov/States/Cities to invest money into Corporations & liquidate State investment funds to pay off debts and the rest to the citizens, drop the drinking age to 18 and increase the sin tax to pay for roads (why the drinking age is 21), remove the Feds power that regulates the States ability to buy/sell natural resources, open the fed reserve for audit-credit the payments back over history correctly-remove interest applied on our own money-credit that interest back to us to remove the deficit completely..... as you can see, just to start we only need a few minor adjustments and the ball will be moving perfectly fine.

lmao. so true

[notime]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Shoot, we only need to stop wars, remove all aid, cut corp capital gains tax, close a majority of gov departments/reduce the size of them, reduce military size, put that money towards our vets! Give high income tax breaks who reinvest locally, regulate medical costs, criminalize hiring illegal immigrants, remove personal rights given to corps & political donations from them, criminalize lobbying and gifts, require every corp/state/city that has had a bailout/stimulus money to pay it back, remove the ability for Gov/States/Cities to invest money into Corporations & liquidate State investment funds to pay off debts and the rest to the citizens, drop the drinking age to 18 and increase the sin tax to pay for roads (why the drinking age is 21), remove the Feds power that regulates the States ability to buy/sell natural resources, open the fed reserve for audit-credit the payments back over history correctly-remove interest applied on our own money-credit that interest back to us to remove the deficit completely..... as you can see, just to start we only need a few minor adjustments and the ball will be moving perfectly fine.

Today's new Dutch goverment plans seem to be exact coherent and match with your words in most cases.

[rogueteens]

Originally Posted by billywatson

Russia is lucky the US didn't behave like the Russians -- or Germans -- would have behaved if they discovered the Bomb. Hitler would have bombed the Russians into oblivion and wouldn't have taken a second to make that decision.

If Russia got the bomb, we'd all be living under a Communist Regime, wearing the same state-issued clothes and sitting on the same state-issued furniture and watching one of three state-run TV channels. And none of us would be in adult, cause we would have been executed...or at the least imprisoned.

Some argue the US's biggest mistake wasn't continuing through Berlin to Moscow and taken Russia as well. With 25 million plus Russian casualties and a worn-out army, the US the only country to have a nuclear arsenal...it would have been a cake walk.

So yea, uh huh...the Russians won.

Gosh you're smart.

If only I had your education. (In the mean time, brush up on your grammar and punctuation, dumb ass).

fuck me, where did you get your history lessons? First off the atom bomb was bult by a us/UK/Canadian coalition. The us took the bomb way and refused to play ball from the rest of the allies. And as for the american army taking on the Red Army? Get real! The only reason why they went as far as they did as because THEY WERE PAID TO. Lets be honest here, in 1945 the Russians would have decimated the american army. Russia may have had lower quality armaments but that didnt stop them beating the Germans who had the best of the best in that area. Russia had numbers on their side and would have had the home advantage. No contest there.

The trouble with you americans is you watch and believe the horribly basic and one-sided History Channel programmes.

[tony286]

The russians lost over 10 million fighters in ww2. If they werent fighting hitler there is a good chance all of europe would be speaking german. Also at the time they were our allies.

[The Demon]

Originally Posted by Bill8

I agree generally with your first argument, altho I think you need to state the "how it's done" more clearly, cuz that's the trick. and your last sentence is more philosophical and editorial than practical. but who among us doesn't editorialize?

you may or may not have read what I said in posts to vendzilla, in which I suggested that the government should declare keeping a manufacturing base a national security priority, and take steps to make sure a next generation of manufacturing industries, and the infrastructure to support them, is built inside this country. I prposed funding this with money that is now spent on our military empire.

of course there are obvious problems with that. still, it has the advantage of being potentially doable, politically. it neatly yokes together nationalism and managed economy.

---

economists are servants who say what they are paid to say, to justify the current business models of their time. blaming the economists is a pleasure, but economists are not the cause of any of this.

so, you need to be more explicit about what you actually mean, about what the _economy_, which is all of us collectively, is doing wrong.

and what can be done, practically speaking, about it.

right now, we are being beaten economically by other more managed economies that are arguably more keynesian than we are - so it's not centrally managed fiat currency alone which is doing us in.

thats the global question - will government managed economies defeat invisible hand economies?

Hmm what's wrong with mainstream economics? Well, Keynesian economics is predicated on the consumer spending model and posits that stimulus spending would increase consumer spending. This is THE fundamental flaw with keynesian economics. What those economists don't understand is that for their scenario to be remotely possible, the government should be running a budget surplus or a trade surplus. When we are running deficits, keynesian principles tend to send the economy into a downward spiral.