The porn industry

[Carmen80]

I'm wondering about this porn industry you talk about. You pay over $30 PPS for a $1.5 trial. How does that work out for your customers? Are they satisfied?

I bet they never complain.

The pirates are the bad ones.

[chronig]

PPS is a dumb concept

Why wouldn't you want to take 50-60% revshare?

PPS is/was just a clusterfuck waiting to happen (that's already happened )

[signupdamnit]

I'm more than fine with 50/50 revshare and no "tricks" beyond normal rebilling with a clear cancel link.

[RyuLion]

To answer your question, it pays out if the member stays after the trial.
Say the member stays for 3 months
(PPS)
Program pays affiliate $30
Program gets $2 trial + $24.95 x3

[Vendzilla]

Scammers love PPS on trials

[2intense]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

Scammers love PPS on trials

[Angry Jew Cat - Banned for Life]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

Scammers love PPS on trials

that's why pps on trials shave like a son of a bitch. you gotta fuck the decent webmasters to cover the expense of the scams

how do programs make money on $50 pps to a $1 trial? simple. first you only pay out for maybe half of the leads webmasters send you. maybe. second you make damn sure you pull at least that $50 back with a boatload of prechecked or hidden cross sales. once you have successfuly banked on the x-sales, you make sure that your trial expires with 2-3 days and rebills instantly for full price. it helps if you make it next to impossible to cancel the membership. you really want to make sure that rebill comes through. hopefully they have forgotten about things by the next month so you can bill them again. if you get lucky they won't chargeback, but you've already covered your bases with those beautiful x-sales. even if you lose a few bucks, you should have managed to fuck enough to people to more than cover all the payouts you have to make to your webmasters on the small portion of leads you actually pay for...

i think that just about covers the pps business model. please sticky this educational post...

[AHarper]

Originally Posted by RyuLion

it pays out if the member stays after the trial

That's the point, IF. I've seen members areas with more 3rd party upsells than content. So why just be satisfied with 50% of $1.95 for referring a paying user while only the program owner makes money?

No problem with revshare as long as the members area is "clean" and has no or only less upsells (as long as the webmaster doesn't get a share).

[stocktrader23]

People, there are a lot of shady fuckers in this business but it's not 'retarded' or 'impossible' to pay $30-$50 on a trial. A legitimate business could use this as a good long term strategy and it's how EVERYTHING works in mainstream. It costs damn near $100 for a flower company to get the first order out of a customer, they make about $10 on the deal. They are still happy as fuck to get that customer for a $100 investment.

Sometimes I wonder what's wrong with you people. I know programs have fucked people over since the beginning but a PPS is not an OMG SCAM just because it's PPS.

PS, Clickcash paid out millions of dollars on free signups. I promise you it was a winning proposition.

[epitome]

Sites that actually retain can be quite profitable on a $30-35 PPS with a $1 trial. One easy-to-see pre-checked xsell is OK, IMHO. It is done in both adult and mainstream. I always look for them (and did before pushing porn) and assume that any halfway intelligent surfer does, too.

[epitome]

Originally Posted by Angry Jew Cat

that's why pps on trials shave like a son of a bitch. you gotta fuck the decent webmasters to cover the expense of the scams

how do programs make money on $50 pps to a $1 trial? simple. first you only pay out for maybe half of the leads webmasters send you. maybe. second you make damn sure you pull at least that $50 back with a boatload of prechecked or hidden cross sales. once you have successfuly banked on the x-sales, you make sure that your trial expires with 2-3 days and rebills instantly for full price. it helps if you make it next to impossible to cancel the membership. you really want to make sure that rebill comes through. hopefully they have forgotten about things by the next month so you can bill them again. if you get lucky they won't chargeback, but you've already covered your bases with those beautiful x-sales. even if you lose a few bucks, you should have managed to fuck enough to people to more than cover all the payouts you have to make to your webmasters on the small portion of leads you actually pay for...

i think that just about covers the pps business model. please sticky this educational post...

So you're saying that a PPS company like Bang Bros or Nasty Dollars where it is very easy to convert 1:150 is scamming the webmaster? I think not.

[chronig]

The bottom line is - no company is ever going to pay you more than 50-60%. So you only have the chance to make _less_ money on PPS, not more.

"Well let's see here, we did some number crunching and it appears your trials aren't converting well enough for our you-are-a-dumb-faggot PPS program, therefore we have converted you to revshare. Thanks for your business."


Edit:

BUT - if your trials convert like a motherfucker into long rebilling members - companies will be happy to pay you your measily 35$ PPS beer money to take your year long rebilling conversions

[stocktrader23]

Originally Posted by chronig

The bottom line is - no company is ever going to pay you more than 50-60%. So you only have the chance to make _less_ money on PPS, not more.

"Well let's see here, we did some number crunching and it appears your trials aren't converting well enough for our you-are-a-dumb-faggot PPS program, therefore we have converted you to revshare. Thanks for your business."

It's not stupid to take less money up front than you would get in the long term. Companies can close up shop, stop paying or get epass fucked and you can often make more money with the $30 now than you would have made extra by waiting on your cash.

Do you use your brain at all or just get angry and spout bullshit?

[signupdamnit]

Originally Posted by epitome

So you're saying that a PPS company like Bang Bros or Nasty Dollars where it is very easy to convert 1:150 is scamming the webmaster? I think not.

Make sure to look at all aspects of the stats or the picture isn't complete. 1:150 is raw hits? uniques? join page hits? How many raw hits are you REALLY sending. I'm not saying anything specific to the programs you mentioned but in general.

[signupdamnit]

Originally Posted by Angry Jew Cat

that's why pps on trials shave like a son of a bitch. you gotta fuck the decent webmasters to cover the expense of the scams

how do programs make money on $50 pps to a $1 trial? simple. first you only pay out for maybe half of the leads webmasters send you. maybe.

I don't think it's ever acceptable to outright shave webmasters. And the problem is also why merely do it for PPS. Why not revshare too if you can get away with it? I'd rather work with honest sponsors who have a lot of ethical resistance to scamming me rather than trying to second guess what I feel you will put my shave percentage at this month.

Besides there are already plenty of methods of "soft shaving" affiliates without resorting to "hard shaving". Large urls on banners and videos, secondary processors who do not grant credit to affiliates, ridiculously small cookie life, Leaks to other non-credited programs or products, etc.

[chronig]

Originally Posted by stocktrader23

It's not stupid to take less money up front than you would get in the long term.

If you have the ability to do both - yes it is.

Originally Posted by stocktrader23

Companies can close up shop, stop paying or get epass fucked and you can often make more money with the $30 now than you would have made extra by waiting on your cash.

So basically your business plan is banking on the idea that the companies you're promoting will soon close up shop and fuck you over... nice business

Originally Posted by stocktrader23

Do you use your brain at all or just get angry and spout bullshit?

It's already a known FACT that PPS is associated with shady bullshit, along with the clusterfuck of card banging, cross sales, and chat sales --- don't get defensive because you are a lowly PPS promoting clown

[stocktrader23]

Originally Posted by chronig

If you have the ability to do both - yes it is.



So basically your business plan is banking on the idea that the companies you're promoting will soon close up shop and fuck you over... nice business




It's already a known FACT that PPS is associated with shady bullshit, along with the clusterfuck of card banging, cross sales, and chat sales --- don't get defensive because you are a lowly PPS promoting clown

Honestly guy,

You are a fucking idiot.

[chronig]

Originally Posted by stocktrader23

Honestly guy,

You are a fucking idiot.

It would blow your fucking mind how many customers rebill / etc if you weren't only on the affiliate side of things taking your 30$ per sale.



I still have people rebilling on sites that haven't been updated in 6 months/1 year/2 years

Funny thing about the chargebacks - they're all from a PPS/chat traffic campaign ran over a couple months time, one that I still profited from even after the chargebacks, but funny none the less.

[stocktrader23]

Originally Posted by chronig

It would blow your fucking mind how many customers rebill / etc if you weren't only on the affiliate side of things taking your 30$ per sale.



I still have people rebilling on sites that haven't been updated in 6 months/1 year/2 years

Funny thing about the chargebacks - they're all from a PPS/chat traffic campaign ran over a couple months time, one that I still profited from even after the chargebacks, but funny none the less.

Is that supposed to impress me?

Whether you make $2 / month or $2,000,000 you're still a fucking idiot.

[chronig]

Originally Posted by stocktrader23

Is that supposed to impress me?

Whether you make $2 / month or $2,000,000 you're still a fucking idiot.

Nothing to do with that, it's the % of rebills vs regular signups

PPS is a shitty fucking concept plain and simple if you're an affiliate. Program owner will always benefit more from it.

Goes back to what I originally said:

No program owner is going to pay you more than 50-60% - but by being on PPS you could potentially make less than 50-60%.

Not to mention the shady business that can typically be associated with PPS payouts.

I'm not a fucking idiot for knocking your PPS clown business model.

[stocktrader23]

Originally Posted by chronig

Nothing to do with that, it's the % of rebills vs regular signups

PPS is a shitty fucking concept plain and simple if you're an affiliate. Program owner will always benefit more from it.

Goes back to what I originally said:

No program owner is going to pay you more than 50-60% - but by being on PPS you could potentially make less than 50-60%.

Not to mention the shady business that can typically be associated with PPS payouts.

I'm not a fucking idiot for knocking your PPS clown business model.

I currently promote zero PPS programs, I was calling you out for being an idiot not for offending me.

[chronig]

Originally Posted by stocktrader23

I currently promote zero PPS programs, I was calling you out for being an idiot not for offending me.

I think you currently promote zero PPS programs and currently promote/do ZERO anything else either. Makes even more sense now.

[epitome]

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

Make sure to look at all aspects of the stats or the picture isn't complete. 1:150 is raw hits? uniques? join page hits? How many raw hits are you REALLY sending. I'm not saying anything specific to the programs you mentioned but in general.

I pay close attention to two things. Unique visitors and $ per unique click. I do not factor in join page hits. I look at the individual surfer across the board. On a paysite it doesn't matter to me if a the surfer clicks 1 or 100 times, I can only make the same amount of money from that visitor on that site.

[will76]

Originally Posted by stocktrader23

PS, Clickcash paid out millions of dollars on free signups. I promise you it was a winning proposition.

they'ev paid out millions of dollars just to me


PPS if done right is fine. If it is a cookie cutter site with the sole purpose of cross sales/ banging cards then its a scam. But if a company has a really good product that updates often creating good retention rates, they maximize / monetize their traffic effectively and generate upsells or other sales out of the customer that the customer wants and doesn't piss them off, etc... then the company can benefit really well by offer PPS vs Revshare as they will make more in the long run off of the customer by paying the affiliate a lump some upfront and then keeping 100% of everything else.

[InfinityOscar]

and some pays $100 PPS

[epitome]

On the affiliate side of things I want PPS.

My job is to sell, not to retain (aside from getting bookmarkers, of course). I can do more with $35 PPS today than I can with $14 that I may or may not make spread over three months with revshare.

If I can sell a new membership today, I can sell another one again tomorrow, IMHO. That is my job as an affiliate.

As an affiliate, my job will always be to sell.

As a paysite owner, my job is to sell and retain.

That is my personal take and preference on things. I know that this varies by the person which is why both options are offered, so don't jump on me for my opinion and for running my business as I see fit for me.

[will76]

Originally Posted by epitome

On the affiliate side of things I want PPS.

My job is to sell, not to retain (aside from getting bookmarkers, of course). I can do more with $35 PPS today than I can with $14 that I may or may not make spread over three months with revshare.

If I can sell a new membership today, I can sell another one again tomorrow, IMHO. That is my job as an affiliate.

As an affiliate, my job will always be to sell.

As a paysite owner, my job is to sell and retain.

That is my personal take and preference on things. I know that this varies by the person which is why both options are offered, so don't jump on me for my opinion and for running my business as I see fit for me.

i agree with that 100%

[izzynew]

Revshare is good as long as the surfer's bank pays the rebills. But some rebills are not going through.
In that case, getting 30 dollars for a pps trial is better for the affiliate and sucks for the sponsor.

[Ca$h]

Originally Posted by Carmen80

I'm wondering about this porn industry you talk about. You pay over $30 PPS for a $1.5 trial. How does that work out for your customers? Are they satisfied?

I bet they never complain.

The pirates are the bad ones.

heh, still young, still young, you have so much to learn about this industry.

[chronig]

Originally Posted by epitome

On the affiliate side of things I want PPS.

My job is to sell, not to retain (aside from getting bookmarkers, of course). I can do more with $35 PPS today than I can with $14 that I may or may not make spread over three months with revshare.

If I can sell a new membership today, I can sell another one again tomorrow, IMHO. That is my job as an affiliate.

As an affiliate, my job will always be to sell.

As a paysite owner, my job is to sell and retain.

That is my personal take and preference on things. I know that this varies by the person which is why both options are offered, so don't jump on me for my opinion and for running my business as I see fit for me.

I've also favored upfront money by selling a couple of my sites for lump sums vs. a long term return (which will easily turn out to be more money) but as I said if you have the ABILITY to do one or the other, and don't need the money immediately, revshare is always the better option (for the affiliate).

You simply will not make more money on PPS - a program owner simply won't allow it. They all state quite clearly that if your traffic quality falls below a certain criteria, they'll convert you to revshare.

Even crazy 100-200$ PPS promos are calculated wins for the companies - you get 100-200$ for 1 month, and then you get 30$ or whatever it is for each month thereafter, while they reap the benefits of the part of the industry with probably the most recurring sales than any other part - LIVE CAM SHOWS.

[signupdamnit]

Originally Posted by epitome

I pay close attention to two things. Unique visitors and $ per unique click. I do not factor in join page hits. I look at the individual surfer across the board. On a paysite it doesn't matter to me if a the surfer clicks 1 or 100 times, I can only make the same amount of money from that visitor on that site.

I agree. All I meant was that you are better off using your own traffic stats and not the sponsor's as many people do. Some programs might show "150 raws" in their stat display but for whatever reason my own tracking might show "1000 raws" actually being sent to them. It makes a big difference obviously.

[signupdamnit]

Originally Posted by epitome

On the affiliate side of things I want PPS.

My job is to sell, not to retain (aside from getting bookmarkers, of course). I can do more with $35 PPS today than I can with $14 that I may or may not make spread over three months with revshare.

If I can sell a new membership today, I can sell another one again tomorrow, IMHO. That is my job as an affiliate.

As an affiliate, my job will always be to sell.

As a paysite owner, my job is to sell and retain.

That is my personal take and preference on things. I know that this varies by the person which is why both options are offered, so don't jump on me for my opinion and for running my business as I see fit for me.

Agreed again. But be careful because some have such a high price point set (say $39.95) that if you were to get 50% revshare that would be $20 for one month alone. Then the sponsor might have some non-recurring options such as 3 month, 6 months, and one year.
Last month I got a $100 (my cut) sale from one program for example which is far better than $35 PPS (or $25 - $30 PPS which is more common these days). A certain percentage of surfers will choose those options. In some cases (traffic and program dependent) I shit you not, you can actually make more upfront from Rev share than PPS. It will depend...

[signupdamnit]

Originally Posted by izzynew

Revshare is good as long as the surfer's bank pays the rebills. But some rebills are not going through.
In that case, getting 30 dollars for a pps trial is better for the affiliate and sucks for the sponsor.

An increasing problem. Plus it seems expiration dates on credit cards might not be as long as they used to be? Then you also have to worry about the sponsor shaving that rebill or closing up shop, etc. OTOH after about 3 months you would have usually broke even with that surfer anyway on revshare so your effective loss is limited when compared to PPS. Any surfer rebelling past 3 months is all gravy anyway.

[ArsewithClass]

Originally Posted by Carmen80

I'm wondering about this porn industry you talk about. You pay over $30 PPS for a $1.5 trial. How does that work out for your customers? Are they satisfied?

I bet they never complain.

The pirates are the bad ones.

We only pay $25 pps but do not charge for trials, only $29.95 a month recurring & upwards.... We find many members stay recurring. Most affiliates would probably be best working on 50%.

I put good traffic affiliates on more, Im happy to go as far as 70%

We dont scam our members with added sales, we give what it says on the lid