Immigration [VIDEO]

[Emil]

[eroticsexxx]

Originally Posted by Emil

Extremely interesting.

[AzteK]

Who says immigration is to put a dent world poverty? That's just an assumption he makes at the beginning at his demo.

[DBS.US]

The new world order wants to eat the gumballs and shit them out.

[eroticsexxx]

Originally Posted by AzteK

Who says immigration is to put a dent world poverty? That's just an assumption he makes at the beginning at his demo.

No, it isn't a mere assumption. There are those within the US (and other developed nations) who are using that very argument in their efforts to pry open the floodgates of immigration.

As shown in the example, what ends up happening in present times is the ongoing brain drain of the best and the brightest from those impoverished countries; Persons who, if they stayed, would be the ones to actually help those impoverished countries improve their social and economic conditions.

[Maxi]

Jerry! Jerry! Jerry!

[$5 submissions]

Immigration isn't the answer. Raising everyone's economies through markets and trade is the only solution that has worked so far. Look at China. Since opening its economy in 1979, MILLIONS have been lifted out of poverty. Look at India. Since dismantling parts of its oligopolic economy in the early 1990s, India's GDP has been zooming.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by $5 submissions

Immigration isn't the answer. Raising everyone's economies through markets and trade is the only solution that has worked so far. Look at China. Since opening its economy in 1979, MILLIONS have been lifted out of poverty. Look at India. Since dismantling parts of its oligopolic economy in the early 1990s, India's GDP has been zooming.

the main issues as I see it is the 'moral hazard' thriving in most 3rd world economies. there is no possible resolution from our end for that.

[howardzinn]

Originally Posted by AzteK

Who says immigration is to put a dent world poverty? That's just an assumption he makes at the beginning at his demo.

Yup. Without immigration the USA wouldn't be the wealthy place it is and would have have lost WW2. All of those italian, african, irish, mexican immigrants have made the US prosper.

This kind of simplistic gumball argument is designed to simply validate the existing views of xenophobes who want to cut immigration. It completely ignores the fact that immigrants from poor backgrounds usually send money back to their home countries. So that 1 guy from somalia working in the US is supporting his family of 10 back in somalia with US currency.

Simple arguments only work with simpletons. The 99% white audience would have eaten that simple minded
shit up.

As for free markets being the answer, IF it is a fair trade free market then yes. But in 2010 we have situations like our old computer parts going to china/india for 7 year old kids to disassemble and get mercury or lead poisoning and brain damage. I saw a doco last week in china with a woman burning computer parts plastic with a lighter and smelling it to determine what kind of plastic it is for recycling. No labor laws or education to protect her, imagine burning and smelling 5000 pieces of plastic a day, again brain damage. Or sweatshops in haiti where kids work on clothes instead of getting an education.

Some cities in China have rivers that are so polluted they can no longer be used to irrigate crops, they have cities that are grey because of the pollution of 50 coal fired power plants.

Free markets won't fix those problems, they exacerbate them Abusing labor in third world countries, and destroying the environments of third world countries so the people in western countries can get a new flat screen TV every 3 years for a cheap price. Corporations don't give a shit, they just want big returns for shareholders. Free markets combined with labor laws and environmental regulations can work, but it takes intelligent and informed decisions by consumers, which corporate America doesn't want..

Also don't forget that 10% unemployment in the USA is a bi-product of globalisation of trade. Wealth is flowing out of the US middle and lower class. The US high end benefit from globalisation of trade, for the middle and lower, it means less jobs, and the destruction of many sectors of manufacturing.

[eroticsexxx]

Originally Posted by howardzinn

Yup. Without immigration the USA wouldn't be the wealthy place it is and would have have lost WW2. All of those italian, african, irish, mexican immigrants have made the US prosper.

This assertion is correct, but is not applicable in 2010. This is the 21 century and the US is not a developing nation that needs cheap immigrant labor to sustain itself.

Times have changed.

Originally Posted by howardzinn

This kind of simplistic gumball argument is designed to simply validate the existing views of xenophobes who want to cut immigration. It completely ignores the fact that immigrants from poor backgrounds usually send money back to their home countries. So that 1 guy from somalia working in the US is supporting his family of 10 back in somalia with US currency.

That 1 guy supporting his family of 10 in Somalia could do so much more in that country by implementing change within that territory.

It is interesting that whenever citizens speak about controlling immigration, the next word that comes up is xenophobia. Is the US xenophobic? Absolutely not. The US is one of the largest melting pots of people in the world. Immigrants are embraced from every corner of the globe as long as they follow the immigration process properly and according to the laws of the USA.

Originally Posted by howardzinn

Simple arguments only work with simpletons. The 99% white audience would have eaten that simple minded shit up.

It sounds like you have a racial chip on your shoulder because as far as I know, not only white persons would benefit from proper immigration procedures and policies.

Unhindered immigration that allows persons to enter the borders of the United States without being properly documented is a dangerous practice. Surely you are not advocating that the laws of the United States not apply to immigrants at all. Are you saying that those who protect the borders of the US should simply let anyone and everyone into the nation without a background check and without regard to the resulting effect on the US' resources?

Originally Posted by howardzinn

As for free markets being the answer, IF it is a fair trade free market then yes. But in 2010 we have situations like our old computer parts going to china/india for 7 year old kids to disassemble and get mercury or lead poisoning and brain damage. Or sweatshops in haiti where kids work on clothes instead of getting an education. Some cities in China have rivers that are so polluted they can no longer be used to irrigate crops, they have cities that are grey because of the pollution of 50 coal fired power plants.

Free markets won't fix those problems, they exacerbate them Abusing labor in third world countries, and destroying the environments of third world countries so the people in western countries can get a new flat screen TV every 3 years for a cheap price. Free markets combined with labor laws and environmental regulations can work though..

Sounds like the problem that you have lies squarely with the governments in those developing countries.

But we can forget about have the best and the brightest running those governments and implementing change because the best and the brightest would prefer to chase the American dream in the US, instead of assisting in building a future in their own country.

Originally Posted by howardzinn

Also don't forget that 10% unemployment in the USA is a bi-product of globalisation of trade. Wealth is flowing out of the US middle and lower class. The US high end benefit from globalisation of trade, for the middle and lower, it means less jobs, and the destruction of many sectors of manufacturing.

Wait a sec. Didn't you just support the US immigrant from Somalia sending money out of the US to support a family of 10 in Somalia? From what you appeared to imply earlier, we should not be "xenophobic" and should allow the Somalian immigrant to work in the US. We should do this despite the fact that he will work at a lower wage, thus driving the labor wages down a notch AND the fact that he is taking a job from an American citizen.

How nationalistic of you indeed.

Immigration is not a simple concept in the least, but the argument proposed in the video is quite clear. I'll tell you a secret, I'm from a very small developing nation and the problem we have here in this nation is that the thousands of students who leave to attend university in the US often do not come back.

I almost didn't come back, in fact. I lived in the US for almost a decade and when I returned was appalled at the skill levels of persons we have left to run the country. The PRIMARY reason that developing nations have so much trouble avoiding corruption and incompetence is that our citizens tend to prefer to leave, thus chasing the American dream or that of whatever first-world nation they choose. The brain drain is hurting us in a big way.

Again, times have changed. It is a fair argument to say that immigration in its more prevalent form in modern day society is more detrimental than helpful.

[Emil]

Originally Posted by eroticsexxx

Extremely interesting.

I thought you were ironic at first but I guess not.

[Sid70]

So he never said if the US opens its borders to everyone it will finally become same well balanced shit hole as the rest of the world.