Reagan?s budget director David Stockman on why taxes on the wealthy must be increased

[BFT3K]

Straight from the horse's mouth...



https://youtube.com/watch?v=tevt8_91_8w

http://markmaynard.com/?p=11244

[Agent 488]

yeah more strength to the state for endless wars and to imprison your neighbors for harmless activities, and to funnel into the pockets of the well connected. fuck the state. the modern left is a joke, and i am left leaning.

[directfiesta]

Noooooooo ... this must be photoshopped ... or it is under another Reagan ....

[DudeRick]

This is why they want to raise taxes...

[fatfoo]

It's like saying the strong should help the weak. Poor people pay less taxes. Disabled people may pay less taxes, because of a tax credit.

[will76]

Taxes on everyone, including the rich need to be increased unfortunately. Bush and Obama have dug us so deep in the hole (14 trillion in debt and growing every min) that we don't have many options to pay that off and get it under control. Revenue from Income tax is by far the biggest source of revenue for the govt. It's just common sense that they will have to raise taxes, for everyone. They also need to cut a lot of govt spending as well. We going to have to tough it out as a country for 5-10 years if we want to get a handle on this, if not it will sink us into a depression.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by Agent 488

yeah more strength to the state for endless wars and to imprison your neighbors for harmless activities, and to funnel into the pockets of the well connected. fuck the state. the modern left is a joke, and i am left leaning.

Your talking about Saddam, right? You know, the guy who started a ten year war with Iran, killing millions in the process, then invaded Kuwait and raping their land, and then creating the world's largest man made environmental disaster when he set file to all of the oil wells as he got his ass kicked all the way back to Bagdad.

Right?

[BFT3K]

Please WATCH the interview before posting in this thread.

This is an interview with REAGAN'S budget director.

He is a CONSERVATIVE.

[IllTestYourGirls]

Stop the spending then we can talk about higher taxes. He is talking about higher taxes to pay off the debt. Obama is talking about raising taxes to spend more and borrow more. There is a huge difference between what he is saying and what you want him to be saying.

Raising taxes with a president like Bush or Obama will do nothing to help.

[BFT3K]

Originally Posted by IllTestYourGirls

Stop the spending then we can talk about higher taxes. He is talking about higher taxes to pay off the debt. Obama is talking about raising taxes to spend more and borrow more. There is a huge difference between what he is saying and what you want him to be saying.

Raising taxes with a president like Bush or Obama will do nothing to help.

That is your spin on this. In the real world however, he is stating the FACT that the rich have become richer, without developing anything new, and not by adding to the country's wealth in any way.

The richest in the US were GIVEN AN UNPAID FUCKING GOVERNMENT HANDOUT that they did NOT deserve, that was NOT justified whatsoever, and has added greatly to the nation's debt, on the backs of the middle and lower class.

In other words - the FREE HANDOUTS TO THE RICH NEED TO BE TAKEN THE FUCK BACK!

Get it now?

BY the way, those of you who think you are THE RICH - wake up - YOU ARE NOT!

[Kingfish]

Unfortunately most of the spending is already done. We can?t get back what we borrowed and already spent to have wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. We can?t get back the lost revenue that went out the door for two tax cuts for the top 2% that are about to expire. We can?t get back what we spent on a prescription drug benefit for seniors where they government wasn?t allowed to negotiate prices they just had to pay whatever the pharmaceutical companies said. So a lot of stuff we are spending on now are things we already purchased and used, but haven?t paid for yet. You can?t cut interest payments on the national debt. Furthermore all I hear out of the conservatives are calls for more spending. They want to borrow 700 trillion to extend tax cuts to the top 2%, they want to borrow more money to increase Medicare spending and they want to borrow money to increase spending on defense.

Originally Posted by IllTestYourGirls

Stop the spending then we can talk about higher taxes. He is talking about higher taxes to pay off the debt. Obama is talking about raising taxes to spend more and borrow more. There is a huge difference between what he is saying and what you want him to be saying.

Raising taxes with a president like Bush or Obama will do nothing to help.

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by BFT3K

That is your spin on this. In the real world however, he is stating the FACT that the rich have become richer, without developing anything new, and not by adding to the country's wealth in any way.

The richest in the US were GIVEN AN UNPAID FUCKING GOVERNMENT HANDOUT that they did NOT deserve, that was NOT justified whatsoever, and has added greatly to the nation's debt, on the backs of the middle and lower class.

In other words - the FREE HANDOUTS TO THE RICH NEED TO BE TAKEN THE FUCK BACK!

Get it now?

BY the way, those of you who think you are THE RICH - wake up - YOU ARE NOT!

Ahahaha!
Sure kid. Your betters got the government handout of paying for everything you currently enjoy.
I won't mind paying higher taxes if it's tied to the sterilization of the stupid and unaccomplished such as your self who weaken the system and drain resources.
The problem is not that your betters have accomplished so much, it's that your kind has accomplished so little

[BFT3K]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

Ahahaha!
Sure kid. Your betters got the government handout of paying for everything you currently enjoy.
I won't mind paying higher taxes if it's tied to the sterilization of the stupid and unaccomplished such as your self who weaken the system and drain resources.
The problem is not that your betters have accomplished so much, it's that your kind has accomplished so little

Once again, YOU, my LESSER, prove your totally brainwashed ignorance. Carry on loser!

[BFT3K]

Originally Posted by Kingfish

Unfortunately most of the spending is already done. We can?t get back what we borrowed and already spent to have wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. We can?t get back the lost revenue that went out the door for two tax cuts for the top 2% that are about to expire. We can?t get back what we spent on a prescription drug benefit for seniors where they government wasn?t allowed to negotiate prices they just had to pay whatever the pharmaceutical companies said. So a lot of stuff we are spending on now are things we already purchased and used, but haven?t paid for yet. You can?t cut interest payments on the national debt. Furthermore all I hear out of the conservatives are calls for more spending. They want to borrow 700 trillion to extend tax cuts to the top 2%, they want to borrow more money to increase Medicare spending and they want to borrow money to increase spending on defense.

Totally true! I am continuously amazed how many people buy into the right wing bullshit, and vote against their own interests, time and time again!

[will76]

Originally Posted by BFT3K

That is your spin on this. In the real world however, he is stating the FACT that the rich have become richer, without developing anything new, and not by adding to the country's wealth in any way.

The richest in the US were GIVEN AN UNPAID FUCKING GOVERNMENT HANDOUT that they did NOT deserve, that was NOT justified whatsoever, and has added greatly to the nation's debt, on the backs of the middle and lower class.

In other words - the FREE HANDOUTS TO THE RICH NEED TO BE TAKEN THE FUCK BACK!

Get it now?

BY the way, those of you who think you are THE RICH - wake up - YOU ARE NOT!

blah blah blah hate the rich blah blah blah hate the rich blah blah hate the rich because you are not rich blah blah blah.

[Bryan G]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

Ahahaha!
Sure kid. Your betters got the government handout of paying for everything you currently enjoy.
I won't mind paying higher taxes if it's tied to the sterilization of the stupid and unaccomplished such as your self who weaken the system and drain resources.
The problem is not that your betters have accomplished so much, it's that your kind has accomplished so little

[will76]

Originally Posted by Kingfish

Unfortunately most of the spending is already done. We can’t get back what we borrowed and already spent to have wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. We can’t get back the lost revenue that went out the door for two tax cuts for the top 2% that are about to expire. We can’t get back what we spent on a prescription drug benefit for seniors where they government wasn’t allowed to negotiate prices they just had to pay whatever the pharmaceutical companies said. So a lot of stuff we are spending on now are things we already purchased and used, but haven’t paid for yet. You can’t cut interest payments on the national debt. Furthermore all I hear out of the conservatives are calls for more spending. They want to borrow 700 trillion to extend tax cuts to the top 2%, they want to borrow more money to increase Medicare spending and they want to borrow money to increase spending on defense.

actually the republicans have a new angle now for "balanced budget" funny they didnt have this agenda when Bush was in office and racking up 11 trillion in debt.

Obama just wants to take money from the rich to pay more to the poor. He isn't going to get he debt down either. Obama has already taken us from 11 trillion to 14 trillion in debt over the last 2 years. It took bush 8 years to go 11 trillion in debt.

They both can suck my ass, and any of you that swing hard to the left or right are brainwashed monkies.

The only way to get the budget under control is to do something both parties doesn't want to do.... tax everyone, including the rich more and cut back on a lot of the benefits. Obama wants more benefits for people (poor) not less so that isn't going to fly either.

[BFT3K]

Originally Posted by will76

blah blah blah hate the rich blah blah blah hate the rich blah blah hate the rich because you are not rich blah blah blah.

I would LOVE to be in the top 1% or 2% tax bracket. I do not HATE the rich at all. I do however, hate the fact that those who need tax breaks and handouts the least, are given the most.

If you are in the top 2% tax bracket, you are wealthy beyond 99% of the planet, so if you can't get by, you can go fuck yourself.

Our country works best with a strong middle class. The way the wealth has shifted recently, puts us on track to becoming a fucking banana republic.

The rich do not deserve an extension on Bushs' ill-conceived, unnecessary, GOVERNMENT HANDOUT TO THE RICH... period!

[Due]

Originally Posted by BFT3K

That is your spin on this. In the real world however, he is stating the FACT that the rich have become richer, without developing anything new, and not by adding to the country's wealth in any way.

The richest in the US were GIVEN AN UNPAID FUCKING GOVERNMENT HANDOUT that they did NOT deserve, that was NOT justified whatsoever, and has added greatly to the nation's debt, on the backs of the middle and lower class.

In other words - the FREE HANDOUTS TO THE RICH NEED TO BE TAKEN THE FUCK BACK!

Get it now?

BY the way, those of you who think you are THE RICH - wake up - YOU ARE NOT!

Since you are confident about this can you name a couple of people who got richer without contributing anything to the society?

Just 1-2 names would be cool!

[IllTestYourGirls]

Originally Posted by BFT3K

BY the way, those of you who think you are THE RICH - wake up - YOU ARE NOT!

The income tax will be greater than 1% on the middle class and never more than 7% on the rich. I think you are the one that needs to wake up.

Please tell me the harm in letting someone keep their own money?

Damn right I am not rich. But I am EQUAL to the rich. They have the same right as me to keep their money.

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by BFT3K

The rich do not deserve an extension on Bushs' ill-conceived, unnecessary, GOVERNMENT HANDOUT TO THE RICH... period!

This about sums up how the uneducated trash look at their betters.

Tell me son, what do YOU, the unaccomplished societal leech DESERVE?

[Vendzilla]

I got to love liberal thinking, they think they are Robin Hood, taking from the rich and giving to the poor, taking a cut for themselves.

They have a 1.3 trillion budget deficit, I think they need to start there

[theking]

Originally Posted by will76

actually the republicans have a new angle now for "balanced budget" funny they didnt have this agenda when Bush was in office and racking up 11 trillion in debt.

Obama just wants to take money from the rich to pay more to the poor. He isn't going to get he debt down either. Obama has already taken us from 11 trillion to 14 trillion in debt over the last 2 years. It took bush 8 years to go 11 trillion in debt.

They both can suck my ass, and any of you that swing hard to the left or right are brainwashed monkies.

The only way to get the budget under control is to do something both parties doesn't want to do.... tax everyone, including the rich more and cut back on a lot of the benefits. Obama wants more benefits for people (poor) not less so that isn't going to fly either.

News flash for you...the Bush administration did not increase the National Debt by 11 trillion.

[theking]

It does not help much to raise taxes on anyone unless spending is froze for a minimum of ten years...and neither party is going to freeze spending...at this point in time.

[jesse_adultdatingdollars]

Originally Posted by DudeRick

This is why they want to raise taxes...

Thats pretty good LOL

[tony286]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

I got to love liberal thinking, they think they are Robin Hood, taking from the rich and giving to the poor, taking a cut for themselves.

They have a 1.3 trillion budget deficit, I think they need to start there

So vend they are talking one way to save money is to raise the cost to vets for the healthcare which they get for life. You gonna be for that as opposed to taking the tax break for the rich?

[BFT3K]

"Behold, my son, with what little wisdom the world is ruled." ~ Count Axel Gustafsson Oxenstierna

[theking]

Originally Posted by tony286

So vend they are talking one way to save money is to raise the cost to vets for the healthcare which they get for life. You gonna be for that as opposed to taking the tax break for the rich?

Who is "they" and what "cost" are "they" referring to?

[Minte]

Originally Posted by tony286

So vend they are talking one way to save money is to raise the cost to vets for the healthcare which they get for life. You gonna be for that as opposed to taking the tax break for the rich?

There certainly could be different levels of VA benefits. A combat veteran should be eligible for more than a noncombatant. I am a veteran and wouldn't have any problems with the VA taking a hard look at what they are doing.

[pornguy]

Cutting the care in the VA will only make a small dent in it all. Government over all needs to take a cut and I think the first start is with the First Family.. Lead by example.

Just running the White house for a month costs an amazing amount.

[tony286]

Originally Posted by theking

Who is "they" and what "cost" are "they" referring to?

Tricare and gates is looking at because he stated the cost is killing them

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

This about sums up how the uneducated trash look at their betters.

Tell me son, what do YOU, the unaccomplished societal leech DESERVE?

No answer to my question?
No surprise!

[will76]

Originally Posted by BFT3K

I would LOVE to be in the top 1% or 2% tax bracket. I do not HATE the rich at all. I do however, hate the fact that those who need tax breaks and handouts the least, are given the most.

If you are in the top 2% tax bracket, you are wealthy beyond 99% of the planet, so if you can't get by, you can go fuck yourself.

Our country works best with a strong middle class. The way the wealth has shifted recently, puts us on track to becoming a fucking banana republic.

The rich do not deserve an extension on Bushs' ill-conceived, unnecessary, GOVERNMENT HANDOUT TO THE RICH... period!

if everyone was taxed at the same rate say 25% then yeah I would agree with you. But since the rich get rapped so bad I don't think it is a big deal that they get some breaks, they still getting rapped more than everyone else even with the breaks.

If you make 34K you are in the 15% tax bracket.
If you make over 373K you pay 35% on everything over that amount.

So lets say someone has to pay taxes on 1 million dollars which is by no means ubber rich. They would pay $219,450 JUST on what they made over 373K to 1M. All together they would owe about 320K in taxes.

The person who made 34K would likely have lots of tax breaks but lets just say they pay 10%-15% on 34K which would be about 5K.

So you have a "rich" person who made 1M and owes 320K in taxes.
You have someone who makes close to avg income making 34K and pays 5K in taxes.

So the rich person gets some tax breaks, lets say he only pays 250K in taxes then. And you bitching ???? he still pays 50x more than then an avg person. His tax bracket even with his tax brakes is still much much more than the person at 15% or even 20%. He is lucky to avg 25-30% with lots of tax breaks.

How is that fair. I understand the more you make the more you pay but the % should be the same. It should be a flat 20% or 25% and no tax breaks for anyone. But since they rape the rich by increasing the tax brackets how can you bitch if they give a little back, the net affect is that rich people still pay a bigger % of their income to taxes not to mention the shear amount of taxes they pay. In my example, the "rich" person pays the same amount in taxes as 50+ avg people. But yet that "rich" guy still gets the benefits from said taxes (roads, schools, defense, etc.) as 1 person but he pays 50x for it.

If you don't get all of this and you still bitch that the "rich" get some "breaks" then you are either stupid and don't get it or just a rich hater.

If someone took 3 dollars from you and took 10 dollars from me but gave me 2 back... im still getting screwed but you bitching because I got back a little something but you ignore the fact of how much more they took from me in the first place.

[will76]

Originally Posted by tony286

So vend they are talking one way to save money is to raise the cost to vets for the healthcare which they get for life. You gonna be for that as opposed to taking the tax break for the rich?

I would much much much rather our vets get taken care of before the general public, poor people, etc... The vets are the one place we should never cut.

In general a lot of funding needs to be cut and taxes need to go up. Its the only way we have a chance at getting out of debt unless we invent something that the world needs a lot of and we produce the hell out of it here. The only thing I can think of that we could do that with would be a new source of energy especially for cars, but i just don't see us doing it and why others couldn't copy us and do it themselves cheaper. In the past we sold off our raw materials or products that were created from something that was grown or extracted from here. But the liberals damn near put a stop to just about everything so now instead exporting we importing a lot of that stuff.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by BFT3K

That is your spin on this. In the real world however, he is stating the FACT that the rich have become richer, without developing anything new, and not by adding to the country's wealth in any way.

The richest in the US were GIVEN AN UNPAID FUCKING GOVERNMENT HANDOUT that they did NOT deserve, that was NOT justified whatsoever, and has added greatly to the nation's debt, on the backs of the middle and lower class.

In other words - the FREE HANDOUTS TO THE RICH NEED TO BE TAKEN THE FUCK BACK!

Get it now?

BY the way, those of you who think you are THE RICH - wake up - YOU ARE NOT!

The thing I disagree with you on is this: Why is it a bad thing for rich people to get richer? It's not my money, it's not your money, it's not the govts. money...it's their money. Also how is it a "handout" when it's the person's money to begin with? It doesn't belong to the govt. to "handout"...they are taking it from people.

That always blows my mind when talk turns to "government handouts to the rich" The government isn't handing out anything. They are just stealing LESS from people.

Anyway, that's my take on it. I paid almost $100,000 in taxes this last year and I'm very unhappy about doing that. Especially in these hard economic times. I need every penny that I earn. And I don't need to be sending it out to the U.S. govt. to waste.

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by tony286

So vend they are talking one way to save money is to raise the cost to vets for the healthcare which they get for life. You gonna be for that as opposed to taking the tax break for the rich?

You're not going to find a blanket approach to this that everyone is going to like, I say cut 10% off everything, forcing every department to cut waste to meet their budgets, that would be a start, then there are all the redundant expenditures. Cutting foreign aid should happen before any veteran cuts

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by Minte

There certainly could be different levels of VA benefits. A combat veteran should be eligible for more than a noncombatant. I am a veteran and wouldn't have any problems with the VA taking a hard look at what they are doing.

Not for separateing veterans, sorry

[Kingfish]

Just to point out the flaws in your logic
1. Your millionaire would quit paying social security taxes after his first $106,800 in income.

Assuming both your millionaire and average guy are self employed your millionaire would pay $13,243 in social security taxes or 1.3% of his income in SS Taxes. Your 34k a year guy would pay $4,216 in social security taxes or 12.4% of his income. So basically what you?re left with is the 34k a year guy?s last dollar tax rate is actually 27.4%. Now that doesn?t even count other regressive federal taxes such as the gasoline tax. Your 34k guy could easily end up paying another 1-2% of his income into Federal government taxes depending on his daily commute. Meaning the millionaire?s effective top rate is really only around 5% more than someone making 34k.

Now let?s have a little more fun with this let?s take a guy who makes 40k instead of 34k his total last dollar federal tax rate would be 25% +12.4% = 37.4% or higher than that of your millionaires 35% +1.3% =36.3% but yet the 40k a year guy gets none of the special beaks you advocate for the millionaires.

2. Your other flaw is you assume that a 35% rate is a 35% rate on all income it is not. Both the millionaire and the guy making 34k pay the same rate on their first 34k of income 15%.

Originally Posted by will76

if everyone was taxed at the same rate say 25% then yeah I would agree with you. But since the rich get rapped so bad I don't think it is a big deal that they get some breaks, they still getting rapped more than everyone else even with the breaks.

If you make 34K you are in the 15% tax bracket.
If you make over 373K you pay 35% on everything over that amount.

So lets say someone has to pay taxes on 1 million dollars which is by no means ubber rich. They would pay $219,450 JUST on what they made over 373K to 1M. All together they would owe about 320K in taxes.

The person who made 34K would likely have lots of tax breaks but lets just say they pay 10%-15% on 34K which would be about 5K.

So you have a "rich" person who made 1M and owes 320K in taxes.
You have someone who makes close to avg income making 34K and pays 5K in taxes.

So the rich person gets some tax breaks, lets say he only pays 250K in taxes then. And you bitching ???? he still pays 50x more than then an avg person. His tax bracket even with his tax brakes is still much much more than the person at 15% or even 20%. He is lucky to avg 25-30% with lots of tax breaks.

How is that fair. I understand the more you make the more you pay but the % should be the same. It should be a flat 20% or 25% and no tax breaks for anyone. But since they rape the rich by increasing the tax brackets how can you bitch if they give a little back, the net affect is that rich people still pay a bigger % of their income to taxes not to mention the shear amount of taxes they pay. In my example, the "rich" person pays the same amount in taxes as 50+ avg people. But yet that "rich" guy still gets the benefits from said taxes (roads, schools, defense, etc.) as 1 person but he pays 50x for it.

If you don't get all of this and you still bitch that the "rich" get some "breaks" then you are either stupid and don't get it or just a rich hater.

If someone took 3 dollars from you and took 10 dollars from me but gave me 2 back... im still getting screwed but you bitching because I got back a little something but you ignore the fact of how much more they took from me in the first place.

[IllTestYourGirls]

Originally Posted by Robbie

The thing I disagree with you on is this: Why is it a bad thing for rich people to get richer? It's not my money, it's not your money, it's not the govts. money...it's their money. Also how is it a "handout" when it's the person's money to begin with? It doesn't belong to the govt. to "handout"...they are taking it from people.

That always blows my mind when talk turns to "government handouts to the rich" The government isn't handing out anything. They are just stealing LESS from people.

Anyway, that's my take on it. I paid almost $100,000 in taxes this last year and I'm very unhappy about doing that. Especially in these hard economic times. I need every penny that I earn. And I don't need to be sending it out to the U.S. govt. to waste.

Robbie puts down the harmer, nice job

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by Kingfish

Just to point out the flaws in your logic
1. Your millionaire would quit paying social security taxes after his first $106,800 in income.

Assuming both your millionaire and average guy are self employed your millionaire would pay $13,243 in social security taxes or 1.3% of his income in SS Taxes. Your 34k a year guy would pay $4,216 in social security taxes or 12.4% of his income. So basically what you?re left with is the 34k a year guy?s last dollar tax rate is actually 27.4%. Now that doesn?t even count other regressive federal taxes such as the gasoline tax. Your 34k guy could easily end up paying another 1-2% of his income into Federal government taxes depending on his daily commute. Meaning the millionaire?s effective top rate is really only around 5% more than someone making 34k.

Now let?s have a little more fun with this let?s take a guy who makes 40k instead of 34k his total last dollar federal tax rate would be 25% +12.4% = 37.4% or higher than that of your millionaires 35% +1.3% =36.3% but yet the 40k a year guy gets none of the special beaks you advocate for the millionaires.

2. Your other flaw is you assume that a 35% rate is a 35% rate on all income it is not. Both the millionaire and the guy making 34k pay the same rate on their first 34k of income 15%.

The flaw in your logic is thinking a rich guy should pay more $$$ for the same services half the country gets for free.
At the end of the day, the millionaire is paying about 100 times more for the exact same services the 40k a year guy is getting.
Spin it how you want, that's the bottom line and you ungrateful cocksuckers still think it's not enough.

[epitome]

+ This Guy
+ Warren Buffet
+ Bill Gates

Let's just do a flat 10% to 20% spending tax (so that people/companies are not penalized for saving) and call it a day.

[PornMD]

The truth: It's not taking from the rich and giving to the poor. It's taking from some of the rich and giving to some others of the rich, whether it's Congress/senate/president figuring out how to help rich buddies and companies who lobby them or whether it's paying down the debt, which puts more in the pockets of the wealthy in China etc.

The poor and middle class are completely screwed in the long run no matter how you slice it. Ultimately thanks to presidents like the current and previous ones, the people that are ultimately going to be fist fucked are our children and their children. Rich people's children will of course "get by".

[theking]

Originally Posted by tony286

Tricare and gates is looking at because he stated the cost is killing them

Tricare is not for vets per se...the VA is for vets.

[Kingfish]

Nope, I am just showing the heaviest federal taxes as a % of income are on the middle class not the rich. Hey but if you want the rich guy to pay the same % we can start with uncapping social security taxes. That way you’d pay the same 12.4% if you made a $1 or $100 million dollars.
Of course that is the great con conservatives are trying to pull they want a flat income tax, but they want to keep the regressive social security tax and federal gasoline taxes as they are. For those of you not familiar with regressive taxes they are taxes where the taxation rate goes up as you make less money.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by Kingfish

Hey but if you want the rich guy to pay the same % we can start with uncapping social security taxes.

But that's NOT what Social Security is supposed to be. Theoretically...I pay in a certain amount over the years and then I GET IT BACK WHEN I RETIRE. Every penny of it.

Of course that does NOT happen. Not at all. My grandfather made millions of dollars over the years in the citrus industry in Fla. He paid in the maximum in social security every year for decades. He died last year...living in a fucking nursing home because my family didn't have enough money to take care of him the way he needed (90 years old with several strokes)

He NEVER got back what he put in. And since he outlived my grandmother by 8 years...they lost out big time.

That's not the way it's THEORETICALLY supposed to be. Social Security was supposed to be a retirement fund for the individual. Not another way to steal money from people for Washington D.C. to squander.

Why do so many people on this board seem to think it's okay to just take people's money? I do not understand that at all. I work hard for my money and the govt. just takes it.

Let's see....sales tax on everything I buy, gasoline tax when I try to put some fuel in my vehicle, property tax, state tax (until I moved to Nevada 2 years ago), and here in Nevada "Fees" that replace the tax (such as thousands of dollars to get your car registration each year)...and then federal income tax and social security.

When it's all said and done and you've paid all these taxes all around you every day...how much of money you made from YOUR work is actually left for you to enjoy for you and your family?

Not a whole lot. They fool most of the general public with the payroll tax. So people get used to bringing home a certain paycheck and then getting a "refund" every year. And when they get that "refund" check they think it's a good thing!

Well, when you own your own business...and you have some success with it and start writing those big quarterly checks to the fucking govt. then your perspective changes.

You think to yourself: "I COULD have bought my mom a car with that"
Or: "I COULD have secured my kids futures with that"

But instead you empty the fucking bank accounts to write checks to the govt.
It's the biggest expense I have as a business owner.

And people want me to pay more? I don't get it.

[theking]

Originally Posted by Robbie

But that's NOT what Social Security is supposed to be. Theoretically...I pay in a certain amount over the years and then I GET IT BACK WHEN I RETIRE. Every penny of it.

Of course that does NOT happen. Not at all. My grandfather made millions of dollars over the years in the citrus industry in Fla. He paid in the maximum in social security every year for decades. He died last year...living in a fucking nursing home because my family didn't have enough money to take care of him the way he needed (90 years old with several strokes)

He NEVER got back what he put in. And since he outlived my grandmother by 8 years...they lost out big time.

That's not the way it's THEORETICALLY supposed to be. Social Security was supposed to be a retirement fund for the individual. Not another way to steal money from people for Washington D.C. to squander.

Why do so many people on this board seem to think it's okay to just take people's money? I do not understand that at all. I work hard for my money and the govt. just takes it.

Let's see....sales tax on everything I buy, gasoline tax when I try to put some fuel in my vehicle, property tax, state tax (until I moved to Nevada 2 years ago), and here in Nevada "Fees" that replace the tax (such as thousands of dollars to get your car registration each year)...and then federal income tax and social security.

When it's all said and done and you've paid all these taxes all around you every day...how much of money you made from YOUR work is actually left for you to enjoy for you and your family?

Not a whole lot. They fool most of the general public with the payroll tax. So people get used to bringing home a certain paycheck and then getting a "refund" every year. And when they get that "refund" check they think it's a good thing!

Well, when you own your own business...and you have some success with it and start writing those big quarterly checks to the fucking govt. then your perspective changes.

You think to yourself: "I COULD have bought my mom a car with that"
Or: "I COULD have secured my kids futures with that"

But instead you empty the fucking bank accounts to write checks to the govt.
It's the biggest expense I have as a business owner.

And people want me to pay more? I don't get it.

Originally Social Security was intended to subsidize your personal retirement savings and/or private retirement from companies or unions...and not be the sole source of your retirement and when it was established the average SSA recipient lived for 18 months after retirement.

I assure you that your grandfather...at the age of 90...assuming he retired at 65 drew out what he had paid into Social Security several times over.

As for taxes...if I am allowed to keep $1.00 for every $2.00 earned...I am O.K. with that...though I am not pleased with much of what the government spends taxes on. But having said that it is still a great country to live in and if I liked any other country better than the U.S. that is where I would be living.

[will76]

Originally Posted by PornMD

The poor and middle class are completely screwed in the long run no matter how you slice it. Ultimately thanks to presidents like the current and previous ones, the people that are ultimately going to be fist fucked are our children and their children. Rich people's children will of course "get by".

Rich people's children will get by because in the vast majority of cases someone in that family earned the money. There is nothing wrong with that. If the middle class people want their kids to do better in life then they need to make more to leave them or support and encourage them to get a better education so they will have a better opportunity to achieve wealth.

Why are the poor and middle class screwed?? because they aren't getting enough hand outs from the govt? The poor and middle class proportionally and cumulatively pay a lot less in taxes than the upper class. How are they getting screwed, is the "man" keeping them down. Or is it just the simple fact that they are not very successful. Maybe they didn't go to med school and become a doctor making half million a year, or they didn't learn the business skills to become a CEO to make millions or they didn't go to law school and excel in their profession, or they didn't save up and start their own business and excel at it. We see millionaires in our own industry, some posting here. I just never understand the hate for successful/rich people other than jealousy.

The only reason the poor or middle class is screwed is because they screwed themselves because they didn't succeed. In most cases (exception of inheritance) the middle class and poor had every opportunity to become rich. In some cases it may have been a little harder for some of them to achieve but the potential was there for EVERYONE. When people want to blame and bash the rich they should take a long look in the mirror and blame themselves for not making more money or being more successful. Don't blame others for being successful, blame yourself for not. Jealousy is a bitch.

[will76]

Originally Posted by Robbie

But that's NOT what Social Security is supposed to be. Theoretically...I pay in a certain amount over the years and then I GET IT BACK WHEN I RETIRE. Every penny of it.

Of course that does NOT happen. Not at all. My grandfather made millions of dollars over the years in the citrus industry in Fla. He paid in the maximum in social security every year for decades. He died last year...living in a fucking nursing home because my family didn't have enough money to take care of him the way he needed (90 years old with several strokes)

He NEVER got back what he put in. And since he outlived my grandmother by 8 years...they lost out big time.

That's not the way it's THEORETICALLY supposed to be. Social Security was supposed to be a retirement fund for the individual. Not another way to steal money from people for Washington D.C. to squander.

Why do so many people on this board seem to think it's okay to just take people's money? I do not understand that at all. I work hard for my money and the govt. just takes it.

Let's see....sales tax on everything I buy, gasoline tax when I try to put some fuel in my vehicle, property tax, state tax (until I moved to Nevada 2 years ago), and here in Nevada "Fees" that replace the tax (such as thousands of dollars to get your car registration each year)...and then federal income tax and social security.

When it's all said and done and you've paid all these taxes all around you every day...how much of money you made from YOUR work is actually left for you to enjoy for you and your family?

Not a whole lot. They fool most of the general public with the payroll tax. So people get used to bringing home a certain paycheck and then getting a "refund" every year. And when they get that "refund" check they think it's a good thing!

Well, when you own your own business...and you have some success with it and start writing those big quarterly checks to the fucking govt. then your perspective changes.

You think to yourself: "I COULD have bought my mom a car with that"
Or: "I COULD have secured my kids futures with that"

But instead you empty the fucking bank accounts to write checks to the govt.
It's the biggest expense I have as a business owner.

And people want me to pay more? I don't get it.

what most people don't understand is their employer pays (matches) the same amount that the govt takes out of the employee's check. So if you get a check for $2,000 and $500 went to the govt, your employer also had to send in $500 to the govt because of you working there. When you work for yourself and cut yourself a salary you get taxed twice, once as the owner and again as the worker. Btw, I hope you know you can take up to a certain amount in "draws" which you don't have to pay SS and payroll tax on. I believe my accountant who handles my books and cuts my checks said it is like 60% of what you pay yourself for the year. If you not already taking some draws to pay yourself vs 100% payroll checks you need to look into that.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by will76

what most people don't understand is their employer pays (matches) the same amount that the govt takes out of the employee's check.

That is true. Which again...leaves folks like me paying in more than I'll ever get back.
I pay my own s.s. and then I pay matching funds for my employees too. I'm just a small business, and that alone takes money right out of my pocket. Money I'll never see.

And theking said: "I assure you that your grandfather...at the age of 90...assuming he retired at 65 drew out what he had paid into Social Security several times over."

Well, my grandfather ran his company until well into his 80's when he had so many strokes he couldn't talk right anymore. And by that time the citrus industry in Fla. had been hit by some bad freezes and then blight and bug infestations that combined with new competition from South America really hurt the citrus industry.

He couldn't stop working because he owned millions of acres of groves that all had bank notes to pay and when the fruit was hurt on those years there was no money coming in...but the groves still had to be tended and payroll to a few hundred people still had to be made. He was literally signing away his home trying to keep above water (and of course TAXES were still coming at him from the "good" year right before the big freeze years)

Anyway...thanks for "assuring" me of what happened with my grandfather. But since he and I were extremely close and my aunt did all his taxes (cpa), I think I might be in a better position to tell you that "NO" he did not collect all that he had put in. He put in the max every year from the late 1950's until the mid 1990's. And before that he had worked for the railroad in the late 1930's through the 1940's and paid in.

If you think he got that money back you're dead wrong. And of course as I said earlier, since my grandmother passed first...she wasn't able to get any of the "benefits" either.

So when he died...he was penniless. Even though he had millions in CD's and retirement funds up until the 1990's. He never got to use them. He cashed every bit of it in trying in vain to save the business he had built his entire life.

That's the way shit goes in real life. But the government doesn't seem to care. Just keep taxing!

[Splendorous_Male]

This place is packed with millionaires.