Serious Matter. Is anyone else being SHAKED down for THOUSANDS by Jupiter Hosting?? - Page 6 - GoFuckYourself.com

boneprone · 12-20-2008, 09:44 AM

Example:

I signed in October of 2004. I can understand a host being mad if I left them a few months after signing and being with them. After they invested so much in technology for me to host with them in hardware, etc to leave them after only a few months would be understandable if they were mad. I think this is why hosts have contracts. I understand why... No problems there. They need to protect their investments.

But for these one year contracts to "auto renew" every year from the day you signed is what disturbs me. I informed them 3 years and 1 month after the day of signing I wanted to leave and would be leaving. To enforce this 1 year contract rule on me over 3 years later is nothing more than a shakedown.

Only to learn that if I had decided to leave them 3 weeks prior in October 2007 RATHER than November 2007 I would have saved $9000.00

DeanCapture · 12-20-2008, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim_Gunn

Reading this thread has got me thinking. I upgraded to a dedicated server with Phatservers earlier this year and I don't even recall signing a contract. I am quite happy with their service so I think that's a good thing now!

Here here.....Phatservers has always taken good care of me. I didn't sign a contract either

jmk · 12-20-2008, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boneprone

Example:

I signed in October of 2004. I can understand a host being mad if I left them a few months after signing and being with them. After they invested so much in technology for me to host with them in hardware, etc to leave them after only a few months would be understandable if they were mad. I think this is why hosts have contracts. I understand why... No problems there. They need to protect their investments.

But for these one year contracts to "auto renew" every year from the day you signed is what disturbs me. I informed them 3 years and 1 month after the day of signing I wanted to leave and would be leaving. To enforce this 1 year contract rule on me over 3 years later is nothing more than a shakedown.

Only to learn that if I had decided to leave them 3 weeks prior in October 2007 RATHER than November 2007 I would have saved $9000.00

If you have a paper trail and followed the termination clause you should be ok now, no?

Phil21 · 12-20-2008, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo

A default judgment is only if you are served with a lawsuit, told to appear in court on a specific day, and you don't show up. Have you been served with a lawsuit yet that tells you when to appear in court? If not, there is no way to get a default judgment.

Are you sure? Google pocket filing... I'm dealing with a much more minor similar issue in my home state, and found out about that rule. Basically it means any lawyer can completely and entirely circumvent the normal court process, win a default judgment without ever filing a single paper with the court, and go directly to garnishments/levy's/etc. without a judge ever so much as looking at the complaint. I got lucky, and did some research prior to just "ignoring it until you get a summons" and it saved my ass.

Depends very much on the state.

Many states do not require you to be served (via process server) for small claims court - service by first class (not even registered) mail is perfectly acceptable. Of course, it is in a debt collectors best interest to send this summons "accidentally" to an old address/etc.

You would be surprised at what happens out there, dealing my my minor little issue opened my eyes. You can very much fight back, but you need to *actively* pursue things. Ignoring it is the worst advice anyone could possibly give, and got me into the shit I'm in currently.

I would start by looking at the statute of limitations in both the state the contract was signed, and in your state of residence. I assume the contract has a choice of law provision in it, and it is California? If so, a quick google shows a 4 year SoL on written contracts. The SoL is generally considered to start from the "date of first default" - so depending on the judge either the day you sent in your cancellation notice, the date of your last payment, or the date that they show a past-due balance. Basically the last date you were "current" on the account. If your home state has longer SoL's it may be very difficult to get the attorney suing you (if he does) to agree that the CA law takes precedence - and there it is a fight, where a decent NACA attorney would be helpful. Don't just hand it off though, do your own research and come up with your own defenses - no attorney is going to spend much time on a case that may get them $1-2k total business, they'll do standard boilerplate responses and try to settle.

Basically, it sounds like you may just be out of the SoL. In which case, I'd wait until you receive any form of summons, and also watch your local small claims and district court dockets closely so they don't ninja-file on you with sewer summons. Their entire intent is a default judgment, because once they have that the merits of your defense are irrelevant - they won. Yes, you can file for a vacation of judgment citing sewer service, but that's just another knock against you to a judge.

Basically... The original merits of whether or not you legally or ethically owe the debt are somewhat meaningless at this point. Your entire focus should simply be treating this as a debt collector coming after you for a debt. Ignoring it is horrible advice, and will look bad to a judge if it ever gets that far. If you were able to come to court with certified mail receipts, stacks of responses to the old debt collectors disputing the debt/asking for validation/etc. it looks like you were trying to resolve it and the debt collectors were unwilling.

So.. You have defenses, but you are likely well beyond the point where you can make this simply "go away" by doing simple letter writing/phone calls. If it is indeed a real attorney, and he is indeed "trying to serve you" as you stated, expect to have to bring it to conclusion soon. The fact that it's right around where I would peg the SoL to be makes me think they may actually file, in order to beat it.

Either way.. good luck!

As for the contract itself.. You signed a year long contract in October 2004, and canceled in November 2004? If so, I can't see many judges not upholding the payment of the remainder of the contract out. If you meant you signed in October 2003, and canceled in November 2004, then what they did is absolutely beyond shady. Auto-renewal w/ defined cancellation notices have their place - this is not one of them.

Hope it helps

-Phil

JamesK · 12-20-2008, 09:59 AM

Boneprone you're getting softer by the page. Almost like someone put a gun to your head

They're fucking scammers and anyone who hooked you up with that shitty deal isn't a real friend. Even if it was a normal contract to protect the host, they should've told you the details. I say fuck 'em all, but if you wanna be soft and be forgiving and only blame the new owners for bad business ethics, that's your choice. I'd take it as a lesson to not trust anybody in the business.

Iron Fist · 12-20-2008, 10:32 AM

Welp good luck BP.

boneprone · 12-20-2008, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesK

Boneprone you're getting softer by the page. Almost like someone put a gun to your head

They're fucking scammers and anyone who hooked you up with that shitty deal isn't a real friend. Even if it was a normal contract to protect the host, they should've told you the details. I say fuck 'em all, but if you wanna be soft and be forgiving and only blame the new owners for bad business ethics, that's your choice. I'd take it as a lesson to not trust anybody in the business.

Trust me Im still pissed.
I dont feel like killing people anymore though. Im calm.

I want to deal with this new company and move on. Move on to letting everyone know to never do biz with these people.

Wheather you or anyone personally wants to do biz with ANY of the old Jupiter people is totally up to you.
I dont think ANY of them are around anymore in the biz. From the Top down.

I would be very intrested to hear of see if they were.

baddog · 12-20-2008, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil21

As for the contract itself.. You signed a year long contract in October 2004, and canceled in November 2004? If so, I can't see many judges not upholding the payment of the remainder of the contract out. If you meant you signed in October 2003, and canceled in November 2004, then what they did is absolutely beyond shady. Auto-renewal w/ defined cancellation notices have their place - this is not one of them.

Hope it helps

-Phil

Canceled in Nov 2007

boneprone · 12-20-2008, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

Canceled in Nov 2007

Yeah 2007. Im sure thats what he was meaning to write in his post.

directfiesta · 12-20-2008, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil21

Are you sure? Google pocket filing... I'm dealing with a much more minor similar issue in my home state, and found out about that rule. Basically it means any lawyer can completely and entirely circumvent the normal court process, win a default judgment without ever filing a single paper with the court, and go directly to garnishments/levy's/etc. without a judge ever so much as looking at the complaint. I got lucky, and did some research prior to just "ignoring it until you get a summons" and it saved my ass.

Depends very much on the state.

Many states do not require you to be served (via process server) for small claims court - service by first class (not even registered) mail is perfectly acceptable. Of course, it is in a debt collectors best interest to send this summons "accidentally" to an old address/etc.

You would be surprised at what happens out there, dealing my my minor little issue opened my eyes. You can very much fight back, but you need to *actively* pursue things. Ignoring it is the worst advice anyone could possibly give, and got me into the shit I'm in currently.

I would start by looking at the statute of limitations in both the state the contract was signed, and in your state of residence. I assume the contract has a choice of law provision in it, and it is California? If so, a quick google shows a 4 year SoL on written contracts. The SoL is generally considered to start from the "date of first default" - so depending on the judge either the day you sent in your cancellation notice, the date of your last payment, or the date that they show a past-due balance. Basically the last date you were "current" on the account. If your home state has longer SoL's it may be very difficult to get the attorney suing you (if he does) to agree that the CA law takes precedence - and there it is a fight, where a decent NACA attorney would be helpful. Don't just hand it off though, do your own research and come up with your own defenses - no attorney is going to spend much time on a case that may get them $1-2k total business, they'll do standard boilerplate responses and try to settle.

Basically, it sounds like you may just be out of the SoL. In which case, I'd wait until you receive any form of summons, and also watch your local small claims and district court dockets closely so they don't ninja-file on you with sewer summons. Their entire intent is a default judgment, because once they have that the merits of your defense are irrelevant - they won. Yes, you can file for a vacation of judgment citing sewer service, but that's just another knock against you to a judge.

Basically... The original merits of whether or not you legally or ethically owe the debt are somewhat meaningless at this point. Your entire focus should simply be treating this as a debt collector coming after you for a debt. Ignoring it is horrible advice, and will look bad to a judge if it ever gets that far. If you were able to come to court with certified mail receipts, stacks of responses to the old debt collectors disputing the debt/asking for validation/etc. it looks like you were trying to resolve it and the debt collectors were unwilling.

So.. You have defenses, but you are likely well beyond the point where you can make this simply "go away" by doing simple letter writing/phone calls. If it is indeed a real attorney, and he is indeed "trying to serve you" as you stated, expect to have to bring it to conclusion soon. The fact that it's right around where I would peg the SoL to be makes me think they may actually file, in order to beat it.

Either way.. good luck!

As for the contract itself.. You signed a year long contract in October 2004, and canceled in November 2004? If so, I can't see many judges not upholding the payment of the remainder of the contract out. If you meant you signed in October 2003, and canceled in November 2004, then what they did is absolutely beyond shady. Auto-renewal w/ defined cancellation notices have their place - this is not one of them.

Hope it helps

-Phil

That is seizing before judgement. A court clerk will grant that if it is provable that there is a risk that judgement could not be executed because of the defendant having time to hide his asset.

It rarely stands in court.

I had that done on my property, because a lawyer decided that I was the so-called defendant ... It so happened that the defendant had the same name, lived on the same street ( he was at 350 , I was at 315 ) and roughly the same age. It was quashed within 24 hours, with all expenses to be paid by the demanding lawyer.

kenny · 12-20-2008, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by directfiesta

That is seizing before judgement. A court clerk will grant that if it is provable that there is a risk that judgement could not be executed because of the defendant having time to hide his asset.

It rarely stands in court.

I had that done on my property, because a lawyer decided that I was the so-called defendant ... It so happened that the defendant had the same name, lived on the same street ( he was at 350 , I was at 315 ) and roughly the same age. It was quashed within 24 hours, with all expenses to be paid by the demanding lawyer.

Correct its rare and only allowed in some places.

Pocket filing usually means serving a summmons without filing it with the Court first, this is more common and again can only happen in some places.

Anal Hobbit · 12-20-2008, 01:03 PM

Navisite will be Sponsoring the Internext Bukkake Party.

Anyone who has any comments towards them or who would like to say hello may do so at the Party.

SweetT · 12-20-2008, 01:09 PM

There are a few people in this thread offering you very sound advice, BP (Brad, Phil and a few others)....but there are still a few that think they know more than they really do and this is why you should seriously consult an attorney...not a criminal defense attorney but a corporate contract attorney.

My suggestion: Meet with an attorney and have them send a letter to NaviSite explaining that they have been retained to represent you in this matter and that any and all communication must now go through them. This will accomplish a few things...first, NaviSite will not be able to do ANYTHING in the court system without communicating with your attorney. Second, they will most likely stop harrasing you at all since they know that their scare tactics will not work on the attorney.

I think you are going to find that they look at your account and realize that it will not be worth taking to court over less than $10k and that will end your dealings with them. In addition, they have too many things that make this a bad case for them....first, the assumption of the contract by NaviSite is always questionable, secondly, most states do not allow for punitive damages, only liquidated damages, and they would be hard pressed to prove their liquidated damages in court for a contract that auto-renewed three times.

Probably the biggest downfall that they have right now is that they are hemorrhaging money and are probably going to lose a multi-million dollar judgment against a counter suit that started just like yours but for much, much, much more money. The entire company is only worth $10m, which is reportedly $5m LESS than they paid for Jupiter. These are the types of things that make you look at your situation and say "they probably have more important things to worry about than to come after a guy who has paid for the same server for 4 years"...but thats JMHO.

I would like to put one more thing out there for public consumption.....

Contracts are not as evil as some people would want you to believe. I dont do any business without a written contract. Contracts keep friends, friends. Where this gets into a bad area is when one friend assumes that since they are friends that they should not read the contract. I have contracts with MANY of my friends for projects that we are working on together...and every single time we would fight tooth and nail over every single point in the contract....but always with the same goal...to remain friends.

From a sheer hosting perspective, for years we never required agreements from our clients and we used the same reasoning that Brad used above...and I like doing business that way....but, as Brad eluded to in his post, once you reach a certain size that is simply not possible any longer. Once high end bankers, and credit facilities get involved then that all changes. That does not mean that the culture has to change...just the paperwork. I am happy to say that we have never, not once had a lawyer threaten anyone that signed a contract with us....and we dont plan to any time soon.

Good Luck, BP....and feel free to call me if I can be of any assistance to you.

--T

boneprone · 12-20-2008, 01:33 PM

Sweet T, Brad, Phil and Alex from Isprime, thank you all of you.
It is your insight that made this more clear.

Im done being a cry baby. Its time to be an adult and get this resolved.

SweetT thanks.

gideongallery · 12-20-2008, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boneprone

You would think.

LOL. I almost feel like a surfer. One who missed those small hidden pre-checked sales at signup.

i am sorry but that is dam funny
good to see you can laugh about it.

Brad Mitchell · 12-20-2008, 01:39 PM

Excellent post, Tony! I think that this thread serves as an excellent example of many things especially as you pointed out, as to what happens when good corporate culture 'exits' the stage.

Best,

Brad

CarlosTheGaucho · 12-20-2008, 02:17 PM

You should consult any contracts with a consigliere next time.

I'll do it for free.

boneprone · 12-20-2008, 02:29 PM

Hey people keep icqing me.

Im getting a nice little list of people having same issues with them.
Its alarming at the dollar amounts and how many of us there are.

We should see if we can do somekind of group thing. Not sure what, but im sure there is something.

At the very least a get a petition going and complain to the courts that they are price gouging.

Something....

Im suprised and shocked to hear some of the stories im hearing.

We really should group together some how. We are looking at TONS of money here.

boneprone · 12-20-2008, 02:30 PM

Im getting a lot of messages from customers and former customers...
Wow.

How was this quiet so long?

webair · 12-20-2008, 02:32 PM

I have seen several new clients coming to WEBAIR from Jupiter recently with the same complaint. you should get them together and start a petition. This seems like a classic example of price gouging. Granted the market for data center space has gone UP CONSIDERABLY in the past year or so. I'll look over the contract for you and see if there is anything we can pull out of it.

As for getting a lawyer, I don't think you need one at this point, you will only incur more cost than it's worth. I'm sure if you drag it out and let them pay for a lawyer the costs will far exceed what they are trying to collect. Not to mention they will settle for far less just to avoid the aggravation.

Happy Holidays! =)

Snake Doctor · 12-20-2008, 02:33 PM

Good advice here from Phil, Brad, and Sweet T.

Specifically the stuff from Phil....I didn't know someone could screw you like that without you ever getting a notice to appear in court. Crazy.

I'm interested to see how this turns out once Bone contacts an attorney. Sure there's a signed contract, but some stuff doesn't hold up in court even if both parties sign off on it in a contract. Even if you signed up to get screwed there is a limit to how much the court will let a corporation screw you.......for instance non-compete clauses in employment contracts get thrown out all the time even though the employee signed them when taking the job.

(I'm sure there's a latin legal term for that, but I dunno what it is)

hershie · 12-20-2008, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SweetT

That does not mean that the culture has to change...just the paperwork.
--T

Very nice perspective to doing biz.

nolongerexists · 12-20-2008, 03:03 PM

holy fuck.. and my contract is expiring in january.. already left them, so server is waiting to get canceled.. you say it's impossible to thank them for the business and move? wtf?

james_clickmemedia · 12-20-2008, 03:04 PM

Never hosted their myself however I know a couple of people who got a bill for breaking their contract with them..

seeric · 12-20-2008, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SweetT

There are a few people in this thread offering you very sound advice, BP (Brad, Phil and a few others)....but there are still a few that think they know more than they really do and this is why you should seriously consult an attorney...not a criminal defense attorney but a corporate contract attorney.

My suggestion: Meet with an attorney and have them send a letter to NaviSite explaining that they have been retained to represent you in this matter and that any and all communication must now go through them. This will accomplish a few things...first, NaviSite will not be able to do ANYTHING in the court system without communicating with your attorney. Second, they will most likely stop harrasing you at all since they know that their scare tactics will not work on the attorney.

I think you are going to find that they look at your account and realize that it will not be worth taking to court over less than $10k and that will end your dealings with them. In addition, they have too many things that make this a bad case for them....first, the assumption of the contract by NaviSite is always questionable, secondly, most states do not allow for punitive damages, only liquidated damages, and they would be hard pressed to prove their liquidated damages in court for a contract that auto-renewed three times.

Probably the biggest downfall that they have right now is that they are hemorrhaging money and are probably going to lose a multi-million dollar judgment against a counter suit that started just like yours but for much, much, much more money. The entire company is only worth $10m, which is reportedly $5m LESS than they paid for Jupiter. These are the types of things that make you look at your situation and say "they probably have more important things to worry about than to come after a guy who has paid for the same server for 4 years"...but thats JMHO.

I would like to put one more thing out there for public consumption.....

Contracts are not as evil as some people would want you to believe. I dont do any business without a written contract. Contracts keep friends, friends. Where this gets into a bad area is when one friend assumes that since they are friends that they should not read the contract. I have contracts with MANY of my friends for projects that we are working on together...and every single time we would fight tooth and nail over every single point in the contract....but always with the same goal...to remain friends.

From a sheer hosting perspective, for years we never required agreements from our clients and we used the same reasoning that Brad used above...and I like doing business that way....but, as Brad eluded to in his post, once you reach a certain size that is simply not possible any longer. Once high end bankers, and credit facilities get involved then that all changes. That does not mean that the culture has to change...just the paperwork. I am happy to say that we have never, not once had a lawyer threaten anyone that signed a contract with us....and we dont plan to any time soon.

Good Luck, BP....and feel free to call me if I can be of any assistance to you.

--T

Posts like this make me want to be more like you.

_Richard_ · 12-20-2008, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuzzyQ

Boneprone,
Did you get my message on ICQ?.. If not, here it is... Something to think about an have others on here throw in their 2 cents worth...

Does your contract say ANYTHING that the contract is between you and Jupiter hosting?. Does it say that the contract is valid between you and Jupiter hosting IN THE EVENT Jupiter is sold, your contract is valid with the new owners?. Thats the key point right their.

You have/had a contract with Jupiter hosting. Do you have a contract between you and Navisite?.

Do you see where we are going with this?. You had a contract with Jupiter not with Navisite. That *MIGHT* be a loophole for you...

Im courious what others think about this angle to work with and by all means, let me know about your thoughts...

was going to post that he should look into this with an attorney, obviously he's mad enough

V_RocKs · 12-20-2008, 03:35 PM

Stop, hey, what's that sound?
Everybody look, what's going down...

boneprone · 12-20-2008, 06:31 PM

Im hearing a lot of stories. A lot of people have it much much worse.

digifan · 12-20-2008, 07:08 PM

What's this world is coming too.. I am shocked.

Why · 12-20-2008, 08:07 PM

yes, the fuckers at jupiter have tried to shake me down in the past, trying to enforce a contract that is a) not enforceable where they are trying to, and b) they backed out of it, not me.

i know KC was a good guy, but i dont know who is still there are jupiter anymore, but i can tell you they never saw a dime of their shake down funds, refusing to pay even though its in collections, and they will put it into collections. life goes on, dont use jupiter hosting.

Snake Doctor · 12-20-2008, 08:26 PM

It's a pretty sad state of affairs when you're business is failing and the strategy for getting back in the black is suing the customers who are leaving you rather than retaining those customers while trying to obtain new ones.

boneprone · 12-20-2008, 08:35 PM

GFY still hosts at Jupiter/Navisite.

Out of respect to those who have been burned by this new company I would like to be the first to demand that GFY leave Jupiter and tells them to Go Fuck Themselves.

I realize it is an unfair request. But from all the stories I have been hearing I think it would make a strong statement.

Break the contract.

Join the family.

Klen · 12-20-2008, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boneprone

Hey guys. Lets make something clear here about contracts. Just becasue a host has customers sign contracts it does not make them a bad company. It does not make you the customer a fool for signing one and it does not mean the company is out to get you.

Im learning now that a lot of companies do use contracts. A lot dont. There is no good or bad guy here if they do or dont use one. The contracts are used to protect the company. The intent of them isnt to trick customers or use them for shakedowns. The old Jupiter or any host for that matter didnt seek out to shake people down.

What Navisite is doing here to me and what I have learned in the last 12 hours they are doing to MANY other people in our biz is special.
And to do this to me over a single 10mpbs server becasue I told them I wanted to leave and it was 3 weeks after this auto renewing contract is really just an assholeish move in there part. Nothing less. Sure Biz is Biz. Contracts are contracts but this is an abuse of the fact.

And for those of you saying well if they are going to charge you for it keep the server, take note that I closed the server back in NOV of 2007. Thats 2007. We are now over 1 year after the fact. I wasnt presented with this huge fine until March I believe it was.

Yes many companys use contracts,but as i previously said,i would never go with company no matter what service it provide and how good they are it if they require contract.Contracts are simply bad things generaly beacuse there is good chance you will have xyz line which will allow to fuck you in ass as in your case and which you wont notice it.Happened to me once,since then i am very careful what i sign.

boneprone · 12-20-2008, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Why

yes, the fuckers at jupiter have tried to shake me down in the past, trying to enforce a contract that is a) not enforceable where they are trying to, and b) they backed out of it, not me.

i know KC was a good guy, but i dont know who is still there are jupiter anymore, but i can tell you they never saw a dime of their shake down funds, refusing to pay even though its in collections, and they will put it into collections. life goes on, dont use jupiter hosting.

I dont think they have forgotten about you.

EthnicLover · 12-21-2008, 12:15 AM

This is some serious business. I hope it doesn't cross my path in the future.

jscott · 12-21-2008, 06:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

It's a pretty sad state of affairs when you're business is failing and the strategy for getting back in the black is suing the customers who are leaving you rather than retaining those customers while trying to obtain new ones.

EXACTLY! I didnt leave Jupiter/Navisite just for the hell of it, or for fun, I left them because their services sucked, support tickets went untouched and then closed without any reply, my promised DDoS protection was never delivered to me like they claimed etc etc, I wish we could've had a long happy relationship, but plain and simple, if you want to have a successful business without hassle and without lies and deception, do NOT go with their hosting

Heiko · 12-21-2008, 06:40 AM

Is it even legal for contracts to auto-renew indefinitely?

You would think that after an intial term the billing would change to month-to-month, the same way as a cell phone contract.

nolongerexists · 12-21-2008, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jscott

EXACTLY! I didnt leave Jupiter/Navisite just for the hell of it, or for fun, I left them because their services sucked, support tickets went untouched and then closed without any reply, my promised DDoS protection was never delivered to me like they claimed etc etc, I wish we could've had a long happy relationship, but plain and simple, if you want to have a successful business without hassle and without lies and deception, do NOT go with their hosting

Reading your story about copying domains one by one via FTP made me fucking glad I ran away to NatNet... I noticed some time ago that it's not the Jupiter Hosting it used to be before acquisition.

baddog · 12-21-2008, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heiko

Is it even legal for contracts to auto-renew indefinitely?

You would think that after an intial term the billing would change to month-to-month, the same way as a cell phone contract.

Your cell phone contract is month to month? What carrier does that?

DeanCapture · 12-21-2008, 10:37 AM

Well, it's a good thing that Lensman is not here anymore. If he were, all you guys talking shit about Jupiter would be banned....that's just the kind of guy he was

GTS Mark · 12-21-2008, 11:06 AM

I think SweetT offered some great advice.

Sorry to hear about your situation BP.

Snake Doctor · 12-21-2008, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

Your cell phone contract is month to month? What carrier does that?

He said after the initial contract expires (two years usually) it goes month-to-month.

As far as I know, all the major carriers do that.

dank · 12-21-2008, 12:44 PM

Boneprone,

You were with Jupiter longer than October 2004. I remember it was well before that.
And I know you had a bunch of servers with them. What became of all those? You keep mentioning 1 server. Sounds like this was the smallest one.

And they are coming after you for that? What about the others?

topnotch, standup guy · 12-21-2008, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeanCapture

Well, it's a good thing that Lensman is not here anymore. If he were, all you guys talking shit about Jupiter would be banned....that's just the kind of guy he was

Woe to thee whom blasphemy the gods!!

jmk · 12-21-2008, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heiko

Is it even legal for contracts to auto-renew indefinitely?

You would think that after an intial term the billing would change to month-to-month, the same way as a cell phone contract.

As far as I know, yes, as long as that is what is stated in the contract and is signed and there is a termination clause of course. But I am no lawyer

baddog · 12-21-2008, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

He said after the initial contract expires (two years usually) it goes month-to-month.

As far as I know, all the major carriers do that.

Okay, missed that, however, that contract said it auto renewed as I recall.

andy83 · 12-21-2008, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boneprone

GFY still hosts at Jupiter/Navisite.

Out of respect to those who have been burned by this new company I would like to be the first to demand that GFY leave Jupiter and tells them to Go Fuck Themselves.

I realize it is an unfair request. But from all the stories I have been hearing I think it would make a strong statement.

Break the contract.

Join the family.

it'll be really funny if jupiter/navisite gives GFY a bill for breaking their contract

Bake · 12-21-2008, 03:05 PM

Oh the Irony when Mutt posted the other day why dosent Boneprone have his own board.

Snake Doctor · 12-21-2008, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

Okay, missed that, however, that contract said it auto renewed as I recall.

Yeah it did have that in there....although I think there would be a limit to how many times that could happen and still be enforceable, depending on what State we're talking about.

I'm no expert, but like I was saying before, just because it's in a signed contract doesn't mean it's enforceable. Consumers have rights that they aren't allowed to sign away even if they want to.

Oh, and 300 shakedowns, and 300 years of auto-renewing contracts, and 300 soon to be bankrupt hosting companies.

V_RocKs · 12-22-2008, 07:14 AM

Congrats to all the winners!

12-20-2008, 09:44 AM	#251
boneprone Hall Of Fame Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Portland Oregon USA Posts: 34,407	Example: I signed in October of 2004. I can understand a host being mad if I left them a few months after signing and being with them. After they invested so much in technology for me to host with them in hardware, etc to leave them after only a few months would be understandable if they were mad. I think this is why hosts have contracts. I understand why... No problems there. They need to protect their investments. But for these one year contracts to "auto renew" every year from the day you signed is what disturbs me. I informed them 3 years and 1 month after the day of signing I wanted to leave and would be leaving. To enforce this 1 year contract rule on me over 3 years later is nothing more than a shakedown. Only to learn that if I had decided to leave them 3 weeks prior in October 2007 RATHER than November 2007 I would have saved $9000.00 __________________ Industry Hall Of Fame Legend Mike Jones Bow to the Power - Still BP4L http://gfyawards.com/hall-of-fame Learn about it kids. Last edited by boneprone; 12-20-2008 at 09:46 AM..

12-20-2008, 09:59 AM	#255
JamesK hi Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 16,731	Boneprone you're getting softer by the page. Almost like someone put a gun to your head They're fucking scammers and anyone who hooked you up with that shitty deal isn't a real friend. Even if it was a normal contract to protect the host, they should've told you the details. I say fuck 'em all, but if you wanna be soft and be forgiving and only blame the new owners for bad business ethics, that's your choice. I'd take it as a lesson to not trust anybody in the business. __________________ M3Server - NATS Hosting

12-20-2008, 10:32 AM	#256
Iron Fist Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 23,400	Welp good luck BP. __________________ i like waffles

12-20-2008, 01:33 PM	#264
boneprone Hall Of Fame Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Portland Oregon USA Posts: 34,407	Sweet T, Brad, Phil and Alex from Isprime, thank you all of you. It is your insight that made this more clear. Im done being a cry baby. Its time to be an adult and get this resolved. SweetT thanks. __________________ Industry Hall Of Fame Legend Mike Jones Bow to the Power - Still BP4L http://gfyawards.com/hall-of-fame Learn about it kids.

12-20-2008, 01:39 PM	#266
Brad Mitchell Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Southfield, MI Posts: 9,728	Excellent post, Tony! I think that this thread serves as an excellent example of many things especially as you pointed out, as to what happens when good corporate culture 'exits' the stage. Best, Brad __________________ President at MojoHost \| brad at mojohost dot com \| Skype MojoHostBrad 69 industry awards for hosting and professional excellence since 1999

12-20-2008, 01:03 PM	#262
Anal Hobbit So Fucking Banned Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Old Skool GFY Negro Posts: 2,308	Navisite will be Sponsoring the Internext Bukkake Party. Anyone who has any comments towards them or who would like to say hello may do so at the Party.

12-20-2008, 01:09 PM	#263
SweetT Shank-A-Potamus Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Atlanta, Georgia USA Posts: 1,756	There are a few people in this thread offering you very sound advice, BP (Brad, Phil and a few others)....but there are still a few that think they know more than they really do and this is why you should seriously consult an attorney...not a criminal defense attorney but a corporate contract attorney. My suggestion: Meet with an attorney and have them send a letter to NaviSite explaining that they have been retained to represent you in this matter and that any and all communication must now go through them. This will accomplish a few things...first, NaviSite will not be able to do ANYTHING in the court system without communicating with your attorney. Second, they will most likely stop harrasing you at all since they know that their scare tactics will not work on the attorney. I think you are going to find that they look at your account and realize that it will not be worth taking to court over less than $10k and that will end your dealings with them. In addition, they have too many things that make this a bad case for them....first, the assumption of the contract by NaviSite is always questionable, secondly, most states do not allow for punitive damages, only liquidated damages, and they would be hard pressed to prove their liquidated damages in court for a contract that auto-renewed three times. Probably the biggest downfall that they have right now is that they are hemorrhaging money and are probably going to lose a multi-million dollar judgment against a counter suit that started just like yours but for much, much, much more money. The entire company is only worth $10m, which is reportedly $5m LESS than they paid for Jupiter. These are the types of things that make you look at your situation and say "they probably have more important things to worry about than to come after a guy who has paid for the same server for 4 years"...but thats JMHO. I would like to put one more thing out there for public consumption..... Contracts are not as evil as some people would want you to believe. I dont do any business without a written contract. Contracts keep friends, friends. Where this gets into a bad area is when one friend assumes that since they are friends that they should not read the contract. I have contracts with MANY of my friends for projects that we are working on together...and every single time we would fight tooth and nail over every single point in the contract....but always with the same goal...to remain friends. From a sheer hosting perspective, for years we never required agreements from our clients and we used the same reasoning that Brad used above...and I like doing business that way....but, as Brad eluded to in his post, once you reach a certain size that is simply not possible any longer. Once high end bankers, and credit facilities get involved then that all changes. That does not mean that the culture has to change...just the paperwork. I am happy to say that we have never, not once had a lawyer threaten anyone that signed a contract with us....and we dont plan to any time soon. Good Luck, BP....and feel free to call me if I can be of any assistance to you. --T

12-20-2008, 02:17 PM	#267
CarlosTheGaucho Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 9,502	You should consult any contracts with a consigliere next time. I'll do it for free. __________________ CTG Media \| skype: carlosprague \| cb \|at\| ctgmedia \|dot\| net \| Want to make more with your Dating Traffic? \| Read My Educational Series \| Read my Adult Biz Chronicles \| Did your ad revenue drop by 40 pct. or more last year? Last edited by CarlosTheGaucho; 12-20-2008 at 02:18 PM..

12-20-2008, 02:29 PM	#268
boneprone Hall Of Fame Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Portland Oregon USA Posts: 34,407	Hey people keep icqing me. Im getting a nice little list of people having same issues with them. Its alarming at the dollar amounts and how many of us there are. We should see if we can do somekind of group thing. Not sure what, but im sure there is something. At the very least a get a petition going and complain to the courts that they are price gouging. Something.... Im suprised and shocked to hear some of the stories im hearing. We really should group together some how. We are looking at TONS of money here. __________________ Industry Hall Of Fame Legend Mike Jones Bow to the Power - Still BP4L http://gfyawards.com/hall-of-fame Learn about it kids.

12-20-2008, 02:30 PM	#269
boneprone Hall Of Fame Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Portland Oregon USA Posts: 34,407	Im getting a lot of messages from customers and former customers... Wow. How was this quiet so long? __________________ Industry Hall Of Fame Legend Mike Jones Bow to the Power - Still BP4L http://gfyawards.com/hall-of-fame Learn about it kids.

12-20-2008, 02:32 PM	#270
webair Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: NYC, NY Posts: 8,531	I have seen several new clients coming to WEBAIR from Jupiter recently with the same complaint. you should get them together and start a petition. This seems like a classic example of price gouging. Granted the market for data center space has gone UP CONSIDERABLY in the past year or so. I'll look over the contract for you and see if there is anything we can pull out of it. As for getting a lawyer, I don't think you need one at this point, you will only incur more cost than it's worth. I'm sure if you drag it out and let them pay for a lawyer the costs will far exceed what they are trying to collect. Not to mention they will settle for far less just to avoid the aggravation. Happy Holidays! =) __________________ ~ Webair Dedicated Cloud Servers™ ~ WEBAIR VSYS™ Virtual Hosting Platform ~ Superior CDN Network ~ ~ Managed Dedicated hosting Specialists ~ DISCOUNT DOMAIN NAMES! ~ WEBAIR FUSION IO MANAGED CLOUD SERVERS! ~ *ICQ:* 243116321 - *TWITTER* - @WEBAIRINC - E-Mail: [email protected]

12-20-2008, 02:33 PM	#271
Snake Doctor I'm Lenny2 Bitch Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: On top of my soapbox Posts: 13,449	Good advice here from Phil, Brad, and Sweet T. Specifically the stuff from Phil....I didn't know someone could screw you like that without you ever getting a notice to appear in court. Crazy. I'm interested to see how this turns out once Bone contacts an attorney. Sure there's a signed contract, but some stuff doesn't hold up in court even if both parties sign off on it in a contract. Even if you signed up to get screwed there is a limit to how much the court will let a corporation screw you.......for instance non-compete clauses in employment contracts get thrown out all the time even though the employee signed them when taking the job. (I'm sure there's a latin legal term for that, but I dunno what it is) __________________ sig too big

12-20-2008, 03:03 PM	#273
nolongerexists Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 1,096	holy fuck.. and my contract is expiring in january.. already left them, so server is waiting to get canceled.. you say it's impossible to thank them for the business and move? wtf? __________________ work smart not hard ;)

12-20-2008, 03:04 PM	#274
james_clickmemedia Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Texas / London Posts: 2,204	Never hosted their myself however I know a couple of people who got a bill for breaking their contract with them.. __________________ $ CLICKMEMEDIA.COM $ CONVERTING ETHNIC TRAFFIC SINCE 1998 ~ $30+PPS BLACK-X.COM - NEW BLACK EX-GF SITE CLICKMEMEDIA.COM ~ ICQ - 8788771

12-20-2008, 03:35 PM	#277
V_RocKs Damn Right I Kiss Ass! Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Cowtown, USA Posts: 32,303	Stop, hey, what's that sound? Everybody look, what's going down...

12-20-2008, 06:31 PM	#278
boneprone Hall Of Fame Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Portland Oregon USA Posts: 34,407	Im hearing a lot of stories. A lot of people have it much much worse. __________________ Industry Hall Of Fame Legend Mike Jones Bow to the Power - Still BP4L http://gfyawards.com/hall-of-fame Learn about it kids.

12-20-2008, 07:08 PM	#279
digifan The Profiler Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: ICQ 76281726 and I'm female Posts: 14,618	What's this world is coming too.. I am shocked. __________________ [email protected] Webair Rocks

12-20-2008, 08:07 PM	#280
Why MFBA Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: PNW Posts: 7,230	yes, the fuckers at jupiter have tried to shake me down in the past, trying to enforce a contract that is a) not enforceable where they are trying to, and b) they backed out of it, not me. i know KC was a good guy, but i dont know who is still there are jupiter anymore, but i can tell you they never saw a dime of their shake down funds, refusing to pay even though its in collections, and they will put it into collections. life goes on, dont use jupiter hosting.

12-20-2008, 08:26 PM	#281
Snake Doctor I'm Lenny2 Bitch Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: On top of my soapbox Posts: 13,449	It's a pretty sad state of affairs when you're business is failing and the strategy for getting back in the black is suing the customers who are leaving you rather than retaining those customers while trying to obtain new ones. __________________ sig too big

12-20-2008, 08:35 PM	#282
boneprone Hall Of Fame Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Portland Oregon USA Posts: 34,407	GFY still hosts at Jupiter/Navisite. Out of respect to those who have been burned by this new company I would like to be the first to demand that GFY leave Jupiter and tells them to Go Fuck Themselves. I realize it is an unfair request. But from all the stories I have been hearing I think it would make a strong statement. Break the contract. Join the family. __________________ Industry Hall Of Fame Legend Mike Jones Bow to the Power - Still BP4L http://gfyawards.com/hall-of-fame Learn about it kids.

12-21-2008, 12:15 AM	#285
EthnicLover Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: S. California Posts: 1,584	This is some serious business. I hope it doesn't cross my path in the future. __________________ Honest adult reviews? - Adult Reviews Ethnic paysite owners? - Get reviewed Follow me? - Twitter Porn

12-21-2008, 06:40 AM	#287
Heiko Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Kansas City Posts: 84	Is it even legal for contracts to auto-renew indefinitely? You would think that after an intial term the billing would change to month-to-month, the same way as a cell phone contract.

12-21-2008, 10:37 AM	#290
DeanCapture Haters & Trolls SUCK! Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 9,275	Well, it's a good thing that Lensman is not here anymore. If he were, all you guys talking shit about Jupiter would be banned....that's just the kind of guy he was __________________ Twitter: @DeanCapture Instagram: @TheDeanCapture DeanCapture "at" Gmail.com

12-21-2008, 11:06 AM	#291
GTS Mark Formerly known as DH! :) Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 20,911	I think SweetT offered some great advice. Sorry to hear about your situation BP. __________________ Looking For Gay, Dating, Mobile, Banner, Hardlinks, IM Ads Or Popunder Traffic? ICQ 5191566 / E-mail: [email protected] Follow Us On Twitter. Also Sign Up For Our Newsletter For Updated Weekly Traffic Inventory

12-21-2008, 12:44 PM	#293
dank Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 1,674	Boneprone, You were with Jupiter longer than October 2004. I remember it was well before that. And I know you had a bunch of servers with them. What became of all those? You keep mentioning 1 server. Sounds like this was the smallest one. And they are coming after you for that? What about the others?

12-21-2008, 03:05 PM	#298
Bake Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Outback of bumfuck Aussie Posts: 4,215	Oh the Irony when Mutt posted the other day why dosent Boneprone have his own board. __________________ Buy great domains from drunken burned out old webmaster CHEAP bullseyeporn.com art-met.com and more. Learn how to make a easy extra $500 per week

12-22-2008, 07:14 AM	#300
V_RocKs Damn Right I Kiss Ass! Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Cowtown, USA Posts: 32,303	Congrats to all the winners!