Barefootsies

True dat.

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beemk

as good as he knows his stuff when it comes to man-on-man action.

CunningStunt

He likes fat dicks, and knows them like no other (stop emailing me for more cock shots John, my wife is getting suspicious).

CarlosTheGaucho

It's gonna be sticky later on, let's give it some more love though

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Jdoughs

Hey there, great questions. I'll do my best to answer them for ya.

Some people are not interested in blogs built on free systems but in my opinion you'd have to be a fool to not incorporate them into your linking/network strategy. You can build them in less then an hour, or pay out someone to do bulk builds for you.

I do just as you mentioned, build out a handful of freeblogs with UNIQUE content, and utilize them for link trades, or flat out building pushing a few etc links to a money site.

Those old blogspot links are from my 'initial' gold mine I found of blogs blogs back in 04, most are deleted/cancelled now by blogspot, but a few still remain and still point strong links to the sites (as shown by you finding it to begin with). Thumblogger and SensualWriter are 2 adult friendly services that do have very strong trust/weight associated with them, and are great targets for this.

The thing with the free blogs (I'll use thumblogger as an example) is the domains often have massive 'weight' to them, and you can instantly bring yourself into competitive terms riding on that weight/trust that the entire domain shares. There is also several directories ran by them that you can get listed in, and give yourself and the blogs an initial 'boost' of spidering and Page Rank. (usually pr1-3), this comes into play in the big picture as we are going to get an 'average return link' equal to our 'average feeder sites value'.

About webmasters and if they actually trade with free blogs? Obviously not all do, but most will and especially if that site appears to be a handwrote, regularly updated one, and having a splash of page rank shows that they are at least several months old, and have a handful of links pointed at them. I usually let my free blogs 'sit' for a month or two after submitting to a handful of select directories I like, I'll explain why a little better below.

I like to use this as a rough estimate when figuring feeders/hardlinks. When I'm thinking about how many feeders I'll need to build to push 400-500 links to a money site, I use 20 hardlink trades per year, per feeder site. Now naturally over the course of a year, some of those trades will die, some will be removed, so we do check them and police them to a certain degree, removing weaker/dead ones allows us more room for fresh trades.

When starting fresh, or brand new on a network, I will build out something along these lines (Im actually a fan of less is more, it has greater long term results then building en masse with lesser quality, but for all intensive purposes here we will use a round number to begin).

100 sites/domains/blogs used as feeder sites, this should equal out to roughly 20 inbound links each, per year. Resulting in 2000 inbound links per year to our money site. These sites should have minimum 3-5 unique posts (pages) each, and be highly focused. You want to cover a broad depth of niches with them so you have a site that every webmaster looking will want a link on. These feeders aren't about building to match our niche, but to offer up as many relevant niches to webmasters looking for links or trades with us.

Build out these 100 sites with unique content, and get some initial links going to them all. If you do not have other sites or places to get these initial links, use directories. These 100 sites basically 'seed' until first page rank update. There is a BIG reason why we let these stew, if we throw up 10 pages today, and try to get trades on them, our possible traders are seeing a Grey Pr and then also seeing a blank cache of the site, and lose interest right away.

If they 'stew' or 'seed' for a couple months, they will acquire some Page Rank *from the directories, we've 'created' PR/Juice for free from them), they will get cached and have a handful of cached pages. They will just plain be much more desirable as a link trade to users looking for them. This way a guy hits your feeders, sees a pr2, sees it well cached, pages in the index, and unique relevant content. You won't have to ask him, he will want a link on it himself and most likely request such.

While your 100 feeders are stewing, you build out 2-3 target url's focusing on keyterms you want, and begin regular, consistent updates on your money sites. For the 1-3 months it takes for you to get all your feeders built, submitted, cached and indexed you should be doing regular consistent updates on your money sites. And keep them as focused as you can. Keep them very targeted to your keyterm, they should only be about one thing, your keyterm. You want google to have no question that they should be listed in results for their surfers.

Once you've got your 100 feeders (lets call these party planners) indexed and 'known', and you've got your 2-3 money sites built and being updated, you can start actively hunting out link trades at the tune of 20 per feeder, per year. You will see you don't really need to 'limit' any of the trades on these, but going over 20-25 will get you substantially less requests every week on them.

So now these 100 sites are ready to get you linked up from 2,000 separate, individually owned websites and get these return links to your money site. Now if we go back and revisit the 'Fat Dicks Party' analogy, what we have effectively done (or trying to do) is bring in a whole bunch of outside influence to this party, and get our money sites whispered in Googles ear repeatedly (by separately run, independent websites not in anyway linked to us).

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dropped9

what a write up.... Question for you... are these 100 feeders, 2-3 money sites... targeting just one keyword or key phrase? If so have you built out networks like above for each keyphrase you go after?

Second question... How do you figure in sponsors to the feeders and money sites? Like what is %%% of ads per type of site, etc etc? Or are we soley focused on just building inbound links?

Jdoughs

Money sites should be one term, and all content should evolve around it. It's quite easy to build a niche and keep it on topic, but while still taking care of the long tail terms at the same time. You build out a money site for 'HD Porn' and its quite easy to fill up and cover 'hd teen porn, hd blowjobs, hd anal movies' etc etc. But you want to focus that solely around one niche or theme, you want to be an authority on it.

Feeder sites is similar BUT we build out the 100 around as many different niches as we can. This is so when another webmaster is browsing your sites looking for links, for instance if he wants 'ebony porn' links, we have a few he will want links on (which gets us a link back to money site). IF we've done our job right, we've got 'ebony teen, black booty, black porn, big black cocks etc to offer him a 'niched link' on.


And the 2nd question about sponsors. While you are 'seeding' your feeders and waiting for them to get some initial spidering and Page Rank, you will notice (if you've built 100 feeders) that some of them actually will just 'take' in google, and you will then decide if you want to still offer links on them, or if you bounce them over to a 'semi money site' type list. The few sites that actually got some love and are getting sales, you just evaluate them as they become busier.

I do advertise the sponsors on the feeders, but the sole focus is NOT to sell, but to be quality enough to warrant other webmasters to request trades from me. The real money comes from putting your money site in the top 3 of serps for a term. So we are almost pitching webmasters good trades, instead of pitching solely to the surfer.

So generally, these feeders purpose is to trade. I've got many feeders (both freeblogs and sole domains) that just by fluke or luck of the draw, have floated up in results over the years, I just set them asside, stop getting links ON them, and start sending links TO them.

I would say you are good for a few sales off each feeder you do, if you have submitted it to directories, or linked it up from other places. If one gets lucky and bounces for a decent term, you can do a few a day off one.

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Jdoughs

Just to address that one on its own as well. No you don't need to do this for each keyterm.

If you build out 100 feeders for link purposes and do it right, and your money site ranks after 6-8 months, you still have several months of inbound links coming to you from these same feeders.

As long as we add a handful of feeders to seed every few months, we have a continual stream of incoming links from trades on them.

We basically set ourselves up for 'residual link requests' and start a cycle of XXX Monthly inbound links to point to a money site of our choosing.

When thunder-ball released a few years ago, I added 40-50 domains and took spots in serps like big dicks, blowjobs, classic porn, big ass, booty, squirting, and several other 'larger' volume (yet still targeted) with that small network of 50 feeders. I still have the sites ranked in more then half of those terms, but some of them just didn't pay enough to keep pursuing and pouring resources into, that's a whole other lesson in itself.

It's all about working smarter and getting the most out of your feeders. Most people can't get past the 'dont link to myself?' aspect and cannot figure out how not selling sponsors hard on feeders, and whoring out links to their own stuff, can make them money.

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dropped9

Thank you for the detailed response. Ive been using my whiteboard working on a small network map for future building here and your posts have added a ton to my plan. Thank you again. If you ever need anything hit me up. And yes I have signedup to linkspun. Great service!

myjah

Every weekend the main GFY Educational Series Thread is pinned. Sometimes we have bonus threads that get pinned overnight during the week, but the 'main' weekly post goes up on the weekends. Same thing we've been doing since we started this in January.

Is that sorted out enough for you?

John - this post is clearly terrific and I hope we hear from you again and can feature another article soon.

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Highest Def

Just want to pop back in here and say that Linkspun is great. I finally got my site ready and made some contacts. I really like the way you can communicate with trade partners. Very smart system. Username 'highestdef' if anyone wants to setup a trade.

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TeenSluts

people still trade links with thumblogger blogs?

Blazing

Hey Jdoughs... fantastic read my friend!!!!

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Agent 488

good system. just need more people to sign up and start trading links now. do it. some good trades there.

Agent 488

curious does anyone know of anything like this for mainstream.

EthnicLover

Thanks for the detailed responses to my questions. I will be applying your advice (as I've started to do already inside of Link Spun). I look forward to learning more in this thread. Thanks!

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Max_PuZcash

so what about building sites with morphed feeds, are they almost useless because SE see that it's kind of morphed and not really original UNIQUE content?

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GJ_Servers

Awesome post! Thanks.

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Nicky

I do see some advantages in the SE traffic flow to feeders that use morphed feeds instead of static ones. None of them can even be compared to unique handwritten content though.

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Jdoughs

Thank you very much, it was my pleasure and helped remind me to get back to the basics. Maybe as a follow up I can do the other 3500 words I had to remove from this one as it was a little 'advanced' and didn't have the starter info as I've done here.. (lol)

Thumblogger.com is one of the top 1500-2000 sites on the internet, not sure how many other 'dominant' domains like this you can get links on, but its not something to blow off because of false assumptions of 'value or worth' to the links. There is very few of what I like to call 'super domains' in googles eyes that are adult, thumblogger is one of them. And quite possibly the ONLY one you can get links on/build pages on.

Thanks very much Mark, glad you enjoyed it!

Not really no, there is a few trade systems but all (to me) seem quite junky and whored out.

You are very welcome, good luck on the results, and I'll toss you a few trade requests this week to help spark it up.

I don't think they will be useless no. Basically if you are going to use rss content you want to focus LESS on uniquifying it, and more on becoming the authority for it. You can easily become the 'source' for content if you put your head (and links) into it. The advantage to building feeders with unique content is that you can add 3-4 posts/pages and have something unique, and finished, which will carry it for these purposes (webmasters will check, and 4-5 handwrote,unique pages outweighs 400 rss fed posts in most of their eyes).

I don't want to steer to far away from the topic of links and tools and branching into content and its importance is really a completely different (and large) topic to cover.

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CunningStunt

Absolutely

I was under the impression all GFY Edu series threads got stickied right away and you overlooked it for some reason. You have systems and procedures in place at GFY? Well there's a surprise, professionalism!

Rick Diculous

Most inrtersting thread I've read in week!! jdoughs is the man!

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See if Seo Linkvine is still open to new members.

TrainWreckContent

great read thanks!!

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Thomas007

Some questions:

1)
Is 4-5 posts on a feeder site really enough? I thought Google would deem the site dead as it don't update.

2)
If you have 100 feeder sites, do you spread them out on several hosts, or can you use only one and spread them out over several IPs in different C classes?

3)
Registrars:
I'm considering testing the concept with 100 different feeder sites which each shall have their own domain.
What do you think about using the same registrar and use their privacy service?

4)
Statistics:
How do you track the traffic on all the feeder sites? Using the same google account and analytics for all the domains does not sound like a good idea to me.


5)
Templates: If we do 100 feeder sites, should we use different templates on the worlpress blogs?

Maybe we should pay you to consult us on this project :-)

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Nicky

On a side note: The things you ask about and want to do seem to be build feeders for the purpose of linking them to your own sites, if this is the case you will want different hosts, different c's, whois privacy and not use same analytics etcetc. I would recommend doing as jdoughs says though and simply trade from your feeders with outside sites. That will take care of all the hassle above.

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Paging jdoughs.

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Jdoughs

Hey there, great sites you guys have I'll try to address each of your questions.

1. 4-5 posts is good for building the feeder site out. It's enough get it listed in your select directories as hand wrote blogs to help get them some initial spidering and page rank. If you are building out 100 sites, plan on 4-5 each to build them out, and then as PR and indexing starts to fall into place and they are complete, you can set up monthly updates on the sites you want.

Regular updates is not the end all be all. There is several 'informative, authoritative' sites that do not regularly update, and do just fine. To me, more important then regular updates is CONSISTENCY in the content, the updates, the link generation etc.

2. I do use a few different hosts, and have several IP's on each (few different c-classes on each as well) but I do NOT go through any extreme lengths to hide them. In this approach, we do not link ourselves up, or cross link any of the domains, and none of them have similar outbound link patterns, nor link to the same site. We don't need to 'pass the google checks' for ip,registrar, name servers etc.

This is what makes the strategy work so well and last so long, there is no footprints left to follow.

3. Same as above really, I use a few registrars and register domains at all of them, I do NOT use any extra privacy settings. If you do all these things that black hatters (or anyone trying to hide) do to 'hide' themselves you have to imagine that would be a dead giveaway that something is up with the domains.

4. I don't use google analytics, for any tracking on any of my sites. I will use server stats to track the traffic. Have also used PIWIK on a few and like it if server load isn't an issue on the feeder box.

5. Templates, yes indeed you want to use several, you don't want to have 25 identical sites for other webmasters to see when they check your list, or when you offer them a link trade. I usually don't like to use a theme more then 2-3 times on my own stuff, mostly out of 'creative habit' and I also like to 'change up' the way I post my text and images/videos.

Change it up, use different length blog posts, themes, layouts, approach, sales text etc. (100 sites with 5 posts, that each have exactly 200 words, linking to the same sponsor, with images hotlinked from same domain, well you get that picture..lol)

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Jdoughs

Exactly Nicky, you understand what I'm saying.

You don't need to go overboard hiding these from anyone, you aren't doing anything wrong or sketchy with them. This is not really black or white, its just common sense and smart application of it.

The links are all coming hand picked from webmasters you trade with and from unique IP's, nameservers, chucks of the web. You want to build quality sites and still do some due diligence on how they are built and hosted, and not put them all on 1 IP but not because they will fail google checks, but because other webmasters will see it and say "no thanks, I've already got a link on that IP/Network/etc".

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Nicky

Bump, we need more www.linkspun.com users. I sat up another 7 trades today

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Thomas007

Thank you for the answers.

I forgot to add a question.

6)
What directories do you recommend to submit the feeders to?


Nicky, my intention is not to interlink the feeders or from the feeders to the money sites.

I think we will try the concept explained here and the ultimate goal is to get links to the review sites.

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EthnicLover

Here are a few more questions:

1) Do you recommend using .info, .us or .biz for these feeder sites? Are there any inherent negatives in the eyes of search engines, or webmasters for that matter, regarding these domains?

2) Is writing 4-5 bog posts and submitting to say 10 directories enough to actually get PR? While having the pages indexed is clearly important it still seems that PR is one of the big factors in attracting link trades and determining a site's importance/authority.

3) Will using Google Analytics negatively affect these sites or do you just prefer using server stats?

So far Link Spun webmasters have been very responsive. I hope this continues and many more webmasters join.

Thanks a lot for all of your advice.

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Hello? Anyone there?

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Jdoughs

Hey sorry about not answering for some time. The directories you chose to submit to should be picked on a couple things, how active the categories are, how relevant it is, and how much weight you suspect to get from it.

If I posted the 8-10 I like to use for the most part they would become not so good very quickly.

The best answer is really to look around and pick out a handful of 10-12 and randomly submit to 8-9 of them. Just so the feeders/initial blogs aren't all linking to the exact same few places.

Hey, I wouldn't use .info's or .biz's, at least not solely, having a few tossed in the mix isn't bad as long as they aren't too spammy.

4-5 hand wrote posts and a handful of (good) directory submissions is enough to warrant some initial page rank, I have a few smaller ones that rank for small terms off of directory submits alone.

I use server stats, it may be old school or old fashioned to be paranoid about google and their practices but they are secretive about their own operations for a reason, I see no reason to give them my entire business plan through any of their tools, be it gmail, analytics, adwords/adsense or their doc service. Seems quite counter productive to tell the source of the traffic how you are going about getting it.

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sandiegoman

Thanks for all teh info! Really like these posts!

Veggetto

Thanks you guys are geniuses.

EVERESS

An Excellent Post Mr.Doughs!

I've been doing SE Campaigns for Adult Clients for a while so I thought it was about time to get a start here at GFY and say Hello Everyone! This thread seemed like a good place to start.


I would like to add my view on the Domain Trust / Domain Age areas - which have been a bullet point on Most SEO consultants top list for years. I would also point out that bullet points on SEOs lists age badly. 1 for example would be the KeyWord Meta Tag which has so little value we don't even put it on anymore ( well sometimes we do... but you get my drift ). But, some SEOs will still have you put that on TOP Priority!


Most SEOs associate Domain Trust with Domain Age. But let's look a little further into that. Look at how quickly TUBE sites took over and continue to dominate. Some are hardly 2 years old and did an Absolute VERTICAL on the traffic charts. So, the whole "Aged Domain Theory" is in the trash right there. The success of these often hated Tube Sites was caused by - The Popular Vote (and I'll get to that more later).


SEO Links:

I like to relate Links for SEO as to Club Fliers where as each Link Google detects is a flier inviting GoogleBot to a Night Club. In the traditional analogy Google decides which Club to go to based on how much it Trusts the person it got the Flier/Link from. But that traditional analogy is too human as it applies human limitations to the situation.

A human can only go to 1 or a few different places... where as GoogleBot can go to all of them (GoogleBot GETS Shit Faced Every NIGHT!!). Since GoogleBot can go to all of the parties and clubs... Why would it Matter how much it Trusts the person it got the Link/Club Flier from or how long it has know that person. GoogleBots Job is to find everything everywhere.

It is a FACT that GoogleBot follows every link no matter who it got it from. So Authority and/or Trust do not influence GoogleBot when it comes to that.


How much Relevant Value Google assigns to a Link and it's Anchor Text - IS where the origin Domain's Authority is factored in. But, that is only applied when an End User does a Google Search.

I think everyone knows that all searches (Google or not) are based on Relevance and Relevance ALONE. But, even here Authority and Trust are Not as influential as Most would have you believe.

For example. Lets say you have 100 of what people think are MEGA AUTHORITY DOMAINS that are as old as the internet. And they all link to porn.com with link text "Hot Girls" (and slight variations of course). Well, now we know where all the Hot Girls are at right?? We know for sure... LETS GO!!!!

But what happens when the End User/Web Surfer gets there... and it's all GAY Guys??


Now, we know that 100 Authority Domains would not make that kind of link mistake ... but just stick with me here for a moment. What I'm leading up to is what I see very few people talking about CLEARLY when it comes to SEO stuff. My people call it - The Popular Vote.

The Popular Vote (as we refer to it) - Has Dominating Control (about 93%) over your Search engine Rankings. In short ... the Popular Vote of Every Visitor To A Site.

This is a subject for a totally different post. But, so as to not leave you empty handed with just my theory thrown about. Let's pick on DMOZ for example (something my people have been mocking since it's inception).


When you do a Search on Google for "Cars". On 1 hand Google has the Link Vote from say 100 Authority Domains... and in the other hand Google Has The Popular Vote(The Vote of Millions of internet Surfers).

Which vote do you think is going to determine who comes up high on the SERPs??

Do you think the vote of 10,000 people at DMOZ (The Authority Domain) will out rank the vote of millions of users on the Net?

It goes deeper than this of course but this is all I have time for at the moment.



JR.McLaren

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Sexgenoten

Very informative reading. Thanks for that.

As im a little new to this all ( understatement of the year i guess ), i am a little behind on the jargon.

'Money site' = the site that provides the link where ppl can sign up for a membership? Where you have the content you got as an affiliate?

To stay in the spirate of the article, i think i should use the following setup. ( pls correct me if im (dead) wrong ).

My money site will be a TGP site. From there i will provide links to the membership site.

I will have to create some feeders sites with a few good directory listings. The feeder sites should have original written content with posts and after initial setup be update on a regular basis. ( wich could be once or twice a month ).

The feeder sites are best used for link trading with other webmasters, who will send their traffic to your money site.

With this setup you can have all domains registered to the same company/person without having problems with google.

Anything i missed or any further suggestions?

lauralace

Thanks for an awesome post J! While I'm at it, thanks for linkspun too :D I've made some awesome trades there both adult and mainstream.

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relyx

When creating the feeder sites, at what point should you start putting links on them that point to your money site? Right away when you create them, or after you let them "stew" for a month or two?

also, what is a page rank update, do they occur at some kind of static intervals? If I create several feeder blogs on thumblogger, write 5 original, relevant posts, submit them each to adult blog directories and wait 1-2 months, can I really expect them to hit pr1 or 2?

thanks for the great post I have read it and re-read it several times there is so much valuable information here!

*edit* crap I forgot one thing - is it okay to create all the feeder sites under the same thumblogger account?

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relyx

sorry to post again but it won't let me edit my prior post a second time, and I realized I forgot another 2 questions I have been mulling over...

1.) Does it matter if the theme of the 100 feeders are related to each other, or even the "money site" they all link to? ie could you have like a black teen girl feeder site and a latina blowjob feeder site and a bbw feeder site, and they all link to a handjob site which is your money site? (I am just using random examples for the sake of understanding the concept)

2.) You mentioned that you will succeed more when you realize that you shouldn't pollute your feeders with a ton of affiliate links. Should I not have ANY links to the affiliate pages on my feeder sites at all? Because you did mention that some of the feeder sites will generate the occasional sale...

thanks!!

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ilovenaps

Interesting read. Could you explain the value of bounce rate and time on page? Do these factors help determine if the search engine returned the correct results and help solidify or increase your ranking?

relyx

paging jdoughs =)

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Jdoughs

Sorry Relyx I just noticed the questions now, I'll answer these in a few hours later this morning after a couple coffees when I'm seeing straight.

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Jdoughs

I think you are on the right track for sure, and while it does make it look less like a structured plan when you get your inbound links like this, you still want to be careful, use a few dif registrars, hosts (if you can) and IP's, but don't stress about it, just be smart.

And about money sites, yes that is the end target, where you want to make your money from, you mention the tgp but then also mention a paysite ahead of it (if that paysite is yours, then that would be the real money site, with the tgp feeding that). If you do know the tgp game fairly well, you can build a monster and certainly consider it a money site.

Thanks very much Laura!

Using the same thumblogger account is fine, that won't matter at all. Page Rank updates (although the last one took a year) used to be done in fairly static intervals, it looks like they've shifted to more of an 'on the fly' routine.

I don't really link my feeder sites to my money site, if I built 50 feeders and linked them to myself I'd have 50 sites (from my own shit) linking into me. If I work the sites (have ads etc like normal) but don't link them to myself, and offer out/do link trades, I'll end up with 20 per each of those 50 which is 1,000 links (and from all over the web).

Thumblogger is just an example, many get hung up on the fact that I use it as an example, it is just that, a method, one way. It does have its benefits and weaknesses but that's entirely a separate discussion.

I would use different themes, you gain nothing by using the same one and it's just another thing that can give away that you are all of the same network. Plus traders looking at your sites will turn away if all 50 have same themes.

And I don't think the niche matching is as important, in fact, since we're generating links and link power, we want to spread out our niches and have better matches for trading partners. We may not have a BBW site, but dozens of guys may be looking for BBW links today/tomorrow, so we'll have what they want, which gets us a link back to the money site.

If building and just pushing all the juice to your main sites, and not trading, then you'll want to be fairly specific, but cover all facets of the niche. So if you got a BJ money site, build milf blowjobs, ebony blowjobs, hd blowjobs, etc. You can pretty much tie any 2 niches together and build sites for it. You can find BJ content from every niche site out there most likely if you look.


I think it's pretty evident that load times and bounce rate are a factor in todays algorythm, but it just fits in with the other hundreds of things they look at. I don't believe its as important as title tags or backlinks.

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Raven Porn Reviews

This was most informative. I wish I had read this before joining LinkSpun. My biggest complaint about LinkSpun was that there is no information I could find on how to use the site let alone strategies on how to get the best out of link trading. I'm afraid I made a bunch of embarrassing nubie mistakes. After reading this I am inspired to try again and get it done right this time.

Thanks for the Post!

strinom

JDough, thanks for sharing this information.

How many posts should each feeder site have? Should I keep updating the feeder sites?

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camsvipdotcom

Damn good thread! A lot of so-called seo experts should read it too!

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relyx

update: I tried this out about 2 months ago, and made 15 feeder sites on thumblogger. I put a lot of time into doing each site right, each one has decent hand-written posts not spammy trash, and (in my opinion) good content (high quality images). I created about 5-7 posts on each site over a few weeks, and added each site to 8-10 adult blog directories (I changed up which directories I listed each site with, from a pool of about 20 directories, so my feeder sites don't all have the same links.)

So far, I have not seen 1 sale and I have not seen any of these sites hit pr1 so they are pretty much useless for bartering abc link trades at the moment. Traffic is pretty low. So, I don't know if too many people have done this and ruined it, or if it is just not that effective, or maybe it just takes a lot of time before they start to grow, but I just wanted to post my sobering results here and let people know this is not quite as easy as it sounds! Maybe they will pick up some steam in a month or two, I will come back here and post an update either way.

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chief_wolfinjo

Very nice post. I am going to readi it now.