Freedom and democracy
 

I know a lot of you guys/girls believe you are living in a democratic country and you have a freedom of speech.

It would be very interesting to hear why do you think that your country is more democratic than another one(s) and what exactly do you mean by "freedom of speech"? Please explain it with examples. E.g: "In <put your country name here> I have more freedom than in <put another country name here> because I can..."

Thank you in advance!

In the United States I have more freedom than in many middle eastern countries because I can choose to not be religious and not have to fear for my life. My 16-year-old niece is allowed to drive a car and I don't have to worry about her being raped then her being thrown in jail for having sex outside of marriage while her rapist getting little or no punishment.

kane, thanks I've got your point. Unfortunately it applies to almost any country including communist China and even some Islamic countries.

Is there anything that makes your country more free and democratic comparing to the rest of the World or at least with its bigger part.

Freedom and Democracy are an illusion.

Some countries/people are enslaved by an ideology.
Some countries/people are enslaved by capitalism and debt.
Some countries/people are enslaved by extremists.
Some countries/people are enslaved by socialism/communism

In America,
We are free to consume
We are free to breathe
We are free to die

I have lived and worked in North America, Europe, North Africa, East Asia and Southeast Asia. I have seen the same story repeated again and again.

In 2013 the world is free to suffer fascism, the marriage of corporation and state.

This afternoon, my wife and I saw our first drone, for us, flying in from the Pacific and into the Inland Empire. I almost understood life in Afghanistan for a moment. Afghans never see the drones, they only suffer their cargo.

Freedom and Democracy are an illusion.

I can't say if this country is more free the world as a whole. I think in some areas citizens of the US have more freedoms and in others there are different countries that likely do it better than we do. For example, I have no freedom of choice when it comes to income taxes. I have to pay them or face stiff penalties while Qatar has no income tax. Their citizens only pay a 5% tax into social security and nothing more. So I think it would be fair to say when it comes to taxes the citizens of Qatar have more freedom than me.

Sure. However you won't argue that some countries are more free and democratic than others. E.g. the USA vs extreme Islamic countries like Saudi Arabia, as kane pointed above.

In my country (Russia) the tax rate is as low as 6% if you are registered as a private entrepreneur. Also if you get caught for tax evasion, you will be fined but not imprisoned. Personally I don't think it's correct to involve the tax system into the discussion about freedom and democracy. IMHO.

I think taxes are fair game when we are talking about freedom and democracy. In my state we voted in a law that said any major statewide tax changes had to be voted on by the public. Because of that we have, on a few occasions, voted down a suggested sales tax and we have voted down suggested increases in property taxes. At the same time we have voted for some other taxes that people thought were for a good use. To me that is the essence of a democracy. The people get to choose what their money is spent on and they are able to keep the government from taking their money whenever they want.

Now I see what you mean. Course if you have a right to affect the tax rates via direct voting, it's really the essence of a democracy.

That would be valid except Saudi was created by Brits with help from Euro countries to stem the flow of Ottomans. Since then its been run be sleazy royal family. They run all aspects. Saudi serves a purpose posing as an extremist country. Gives people here something to hate while its leadership whores, gambles, gets wasted on expensive alcohol and is fairly well involved in human trafficking. Not as much as US but.


Westerners are exposed to the news western governments want us to be exposed to.

You are missing the point of my post. Its all in the perspective. Anyway.

I currently live in California. Californians have no idea what their tax dollars are really spent on. Its a shell game here. Entirely. For example, with only 25 per cent actually following the sequester BS what kind of informed decisions are people really making? Next to Illinois, California is easily the most corrupted state in whats left of the union. There is no democracy. There is lip service and a going through the motions. .

At a national level we have a congressional committee meeting in secret to determine immigration overhaul. Democracy? Really?

Westerners who don't realize they have more freedom then other countries are total idiots. Talk to someone who lives in poverty and has no education or way out. Or a politically repressed country like North Korea.

The US and most of Europe hae the same thing in that you cam earn money pretty easily and it allows you to do what you want within the law. The complaint over and over about this and that shows how free you are.

The amount of protesters arrested in Russia and many other countries is a bit troubling.

Explain with examples please. And I don't think it's a good idea to compare any country with North Korea. Why don't compare Western World with Japan, South Korea, Taiwan etc. Also you can compare it with Eastern Europe, Australia etc..

This also needs to be bucked up with facts. I don't know anybody who has been arrested for protesting here in Russia. People gets arrested for disobeying/resisting police, but not just for protests. If you have some other information, please share.

Rights and freedoms are very important, and people fought and died for a lot of the rights and freedoms enjoyed in western countries. The right to strike, to publish, to demonstrate. Although when you try it you will find your self pepper sprayed !

As for democracy a question could be asked when has your voice been heard and change made by yourself?

What laws or change have you brought about?

Then we see that normal people are just bystanders and the rich control the show.

how are those teenage girls doing in prison anyway?

you know, the ones who sang a song in church?

1) They are not teenagers a long time ago :)))))

2) And you are totally right they got the prison time for their punk action in the church. They haven't been imprisoned for protesting. They've been punished for "hooliganism which caused defamation of religions, religious and ideological associations". There is a penalty for it in Russian criminal code which has analogs in Western countries too (e.g. Defamation of religions, religious and ideological associations in Germany). Personally I don't support such a punishment and always was against of it but the law is the law.

3) Whey already did a very similar feminist anti-Putin protest punk action right on the Red Square and they were not punished for it, because they did it legal way. See this video:



So the conclusion is: you can protest against anything you want in Russia but please don't break the law (don't punch policemen, don't defame churches or other religious or ideological associations etc) This rule works not just for Russia but for Western countries too. Hope you've got that I'm talking about.

in a democratic society there is a separation of church and state

so if i were to break into a catholic church here and sing a song about.. the devil

know what would happen?

i wouldn't go to jail.

they'd probably clap

but your religious types, are so serious and defensive about their faith, if another person represents their faith in a different way, that person goes to prison utilizing state powers

you live in a theocrazy. thanks for the update

So Germany is not a democracy anymore, right? Did you read the German Criminal Code? What about other countries? Click the links, read and then reply please.

You are welcome. English is not my mother language so sometimes I need to do some revision of my posts to make them more readable for you, Sir.

_Richard_, you're a Canadian guy. Is that correct? If so, please explain WTF is that then: https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=1102609 ???

I really can't believe that could happen in a free and a democratic country, because it looks like a crazy circus of absurd. In my country (you say it's called "theocrazy", right?) you can speak/write in ANY language you want and of course you can use any language in you operating system. Nobody will give a single fuck about it as long as your OS is obtained by legal ways (piracy is illegal).

replied!

8char

yes im canadian, and no, i can't explain that

however, languages have nothing to do with religion or state.. so.

Ivan, I thought you were well programmed by Pooteen but it seems like you're having doubts now and looking to find a proof for yourself. Poor fella.

thats a provincial (state) problem, not a federal one.

Not giving a fuck is a Russian motto.

http://demotivation.me/images/20110225/3rmfh6h0y94x.jpg

The Russian and German codes have nothing to do with religion either. Please read the link careful. The German Criminal Code is written in your own mother language. You should be able to understand it.

As about the "language police", you are right again. It has nothing to do with religion or state because it's just a pure essence of freedom. If you forgot, we are talking only about freedom and democracy here.

So it have nothing to do with freedom? Do you mean that only "federal problems" really matter?

well man you are typical example of US naivety - USA is 1 big example of massive controlled propaganda - it has nothing to do with freedom. You are not free cowboys.
Anyway makind gave up the freedom voluntary - thee is no freedom anymore and most funny is that people dont want it.
And democracy is simply the system which doesn't work - its just lobby , corruption and propaganda from pressure groups.The most of the poeple are just slaves.
I can say for myself that I am disspointed - but maybe I am just getting too old for this shit.

yes, and as a french province they have the freedom to set forth laws stating 'french is required to be the main language'

they don't have laws saying "french only".. while that happens obviously, IF there were 'french only laws', that would be against 'freedom and democracy' as you are understanding it

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

i am free

take it from me

please stop quoting german laws when it comes to that, the maximum what would have happened to the pussy riot girls in germany would have been a fine.

but for sure no labor camp

and if you're not convinced please show one single case where someone went to jail for that in Germany - you would have to burn that fucking church down including people in there before it comes to that

saw a nice documentary recently - gay protest in Moscow

neonazis beat up the gays, police stepped in, beat up the gays some more and then high fived the nazis.

but i'm sure it's the gay peoples fault somehow

U think you are :pimp

yes, the one and only requirement

now do you?

well in your country can you go out in the street and say the president is an idiot without getting arrested?

Stefan, this is the LAW. You can agree with it or not, but you can't break it. I know that the Pussy Riot's punishment was unfair and I'm not a Putin's fan and I'm also fear for the girls (they don't deserve it). However they have agreed to play this game and they gave a formal reason the Putin's system to punish them according the LAW. Yes, is was a formal thing, but they had all chances to avoid the problems like they already did it on the Red Square. They wanted to go further and they got that they were for...

Exactly :2 cents:

do you believe you are free?

How can any1 be free with all those cams , cells phone trackings , bugging , aiport checks , records and I don't what
I am pretty far from being free - but at least I don't pretend to be.

Yes of course:

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...dPVWRjnCQuc1ZS

http://nationalpostnews.files.wordpr...test.jpg?w=620

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/...rs-mar-007.jpg

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/i...Sq1pGpc4QIPWoP
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/...r-to-p-007.jpg

http://www.globalpost.com/sites/defa..._3_10_2012.jpg

http://image.shutterstock.com/displa...a-94332640.jpg

http://cdn.theguardian.tv/brightcove...on_5895044.jpg

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/...t-stre-008.jpg

http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim/201...17_620x350.jpg

http://d4493f2df0d1b95cfc62-773cd17a...s_original.jpg

Everything you see above you are allowed to do. The only thing is that you must not beat and resist police. Otherwise you may have some real troubles.