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US Government Told Piracy Losses Are Exaggerated
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http://torrentfreak.com/us-governmen...erated-100616/ Quote:
but because he actually backed it up with hard numbers unlike the wishy washy "potential lost sales" |
I'd still like to know how that studio who did The Hurt Locker put the $2,500 price tag on downloading the movie.
I didn't know you can just make up numbers out of thin air and sue people. |
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I have a feeling he's going to find a couple of college kids whose daddies have some pretty deep pockets. :2 cents: |
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who cares.
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Get rid of piracy? Release movies On Demand same day as they come out in theaters. Problem solved.
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Huh i think this is first thread where i actually agree with gg.They have been exaggerating since ages,for example when they shutdown some small unknown warez site and claim how they lost millions because of it.Like all those down loaders would buy software otherwise.
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Aye, been reading about the crap MPAA numbers for years on torrent freak as well..
The MPAA has been blowing the number god for years now.. It's simply crazy to try and say 1000 torrent downloads is equal to losing 1000 x $10 a movie ticket or so. That's just one gay way they try and fake the numbers. If the MPAA would put all this energy into moving towards new technologies they would have beaten piracy already. |
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If the sneaker industry was viewed as some out of control greed monster, you wouldn't see them running into Foot Locker and carrying armfuls of Reeboks down the street, because the cops would throw them in jail. They're not oppressed by the man, trying to create a new paradigm. They're assholes, and have probably never created anything -- so they put no value in anything that is created by someone else. |
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Piracy isn't stealing, if you make a copy of something for your own personal use, you're not going to jail for it. |
Stealing is stealing, a thief is a thief. It is illegal, period.
When stealing is legal let me know I hate buying groceries. . |
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Anyone remember how much of a pain in the ass it was to make copies of VHS tapes? Man I'm glad those days are over :1orglaugh
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Piracy will not end. The best way to combat it without directly suing people is to provide new content delivery systems that make stealing seem like more of a pain in the ass than it's worth. Example: Netflix instant streaming.
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Great writeup with some actual logical information being presented. Thanks for the link :)
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Offering a cheap, easy to use streaming service could help combat some of that. Especially with them now allowing you to use a wide range of devices to stream right to your TV. If you can spent a few dollars a month and get access to a ton of content there might be some people who would rather do that than take the time to find and download stuff. |
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It is like Repub/Dems wasting their time and money trying to 'convert' one site to the other. It isn't going to happen, election or otherwise. They simply need to concentrate their time and money on things that they CAN CHANGE. |
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and the movie was released on every medium at the same time the freebie people could still get it free on the commercial tv station the dvd/ondemand/movie theater/commercial tv/ release would happen on the same day no profits from extending the copyright monopoly to medium but 100% of the content distribution profits would still go to copyright holder. Which is what the law has always intended anyway. |
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Digital Piracy isn't criminal.. now it is criminal to profit on copyrighted items, knowingly stealing and duplicating and selling it as the org... but these guys aren't profiting from it or doing that. What they do won't land them in jail or even get them fined. It's not illegal. Now they could be sued, but that's very different. |
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If they released it simultaneously on DVD/pay-per-view/pay per download etc all at once it might cut some of it down, but I still think there are still a lot of people out there who would still not pay because they simply don't want to and think they are entitled to have it for free. If it were released in pay-per-view/DVD/paid download at the same time it were released in the theater just about everyone would have access to buy it in some way shape or form, but there would still be a lot of people who wouldn't. |
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:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh |
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Now go ahead and fuck up by not paying the fine or obeying a court order. In other words, put up content and get sued and have a judge tell you to take it down and ignore that. Copyright violation in most states is a civil offense, but give it another 10-20 years. There will be many studies done on the effects of the internet during this time and the result will be that piracy crippled too many enterprises. Those facts may be the cause to make it a criminal offense. It's already is criminal in some places : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyrig...minal_offences |
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The copyright laws will change, but not the direction you think... Fair use, "IS" the American Economy and technology/software and digital goods aren't slowing down. http://www.arl.org/bm~doc/ccia-fair-...-exec-summ.pdf "Revenue - In 2006, fair use industries generated revenue of $4.5 trillion, a 31 percent increase over 2002 revenue of $3.5 trillion. In percentage terms, the most significant growth occurred in electronic shopping, audio and video equipment manufacturing, Internet publishing and broadcasting, Internet service providers and web search portals, and other information services. Value Added - Value added equals a firm’s total output minus its purchases of intermediate inputs and is the best measurement of an industry’s economic contribution to national GDP. In 2006, fair use-related industry value added was $2.2 trillion, 16.6 percent of total U.S. current dollar GDP. Fair use industries also grew at a faster pace than the overall economy. From 2002 to 2006, the fair use industries contributed $507 billion to U.S. GDP growth, accounting for 18.3 percent of U.S. current dollar economic growth." No way Copyright, fair use, or piracy rules are going to change. |
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they are not giving away anything on tv. Quote:
A new fair use needs to be created to stop that abuse, once that happens movie producers will produce content that allows theaters to compete on a technological basis. RGBY filmed content which will look superior to anything you can see on your RGB tv at home. the technology would perculate down to the tv over time, and 60 trillion dollar / year (assuming the adoption speed of surround sound is consistent with the new technologies that come down the pike) of new technology would replace 350 million lost due to "piracy". Even if you were assuming that the fabricated piracy numbers currently declared by the MPAA is correct that a win for the US economy. Quote:
if access shifting were to come about, then the act of ignoring a medium would entitle someone who wanted to fill that need to fill that need. That would be a good thing (60 trillion dollar a year in new technology). |
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i thought your absurd statements about the minimum wage were bad. |
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Not to mention they would have to edit the movie for content if it rated above PG. Some might say that is a selling point, if you want the unedited version you can pay for it, but I don't think TV stations are going to want to pay a premium price for content that is edited and available still in theaters. As I said, this is never going to happen. First run movies will never be available on free TV on the same day they are released in theaters. Quote:
Broadcast TV stations might have made more by forcing you to watch reruns, but companies like HBO, Showtime and other premium pay services actually make more money with On Demand because it allows subscribers to watch the show whenever they want. For them it is different than regular TV because there are no advertisers to make happy, they just want people to keep paying the $15 a month for their channels. Quote:
You can have all the best equipment in the world and it won't stop people from downloading a movie for free. Many people who have the money to spend on high end AV gear want media that allows them to take advantage of it. They will pay for Blu Ray or for HD pay per view etc. This has no effect on the guy who has a normal TV and no surround sound who wants to download a copy of Iron Man 2 because he doesn't want to pay for it. Even if knew technology sales helped cover the cost of piracy losses they are often two different companies. Panasonic selling more TV's doesn't help Paramount recoup losses due to downloading. Quote:
Please explain. |
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then preventing it from being release on a medium would be just as legitimate at trying to prevent sony from making vcrs. The act of charging insane liciencing fees for tv distribution would allow the tv stations to air the content for free. They will make their money back from product placement/ etc. really big movies like iron man will not have a problem, the theaters would have it in 3d and be able to charge $20 the tv appearance would be an upsell to the "real" experience in the theater it would not be that hard to do if the theaters were a true technologically superior offering of the movie. Quote:
if the timeshifting fair use had never been established then these devices would not have been legal either. Quote:
people watching their favorite shows at non prime time times is what made the tv stations realize there was more programing time available ever increasing viewing times cause specialty channels to be created. Quote:
home sound systems did not exist movies needed special equipment to record /edit the multi channel sound signal you need to use editing software and equipement to downgrade multichannel signal into the single /stereo channel signal most people actually had that technology existed only in the movies and as cost came down it appeared in the home market, bringing new sales for the content producers (dvd,Blue ray, etc) same would happen in the case of access shifting Quote:
paramount is not entitled to money from the sale of panasonic tv etc just because they produced the content just like universal was not entitled to the profits from the sale of the vcr paramount would earn it profits from medium distribution of the content just like universal earned money from putting their movies on the tape cassette and selling it to the owners of the vcr. Quote:
shoot in six spectrum 8 bit color and downgrade their content to the lower mediums will survive those that hang on to the old 3 spectrum 8 bit color will die competition will breed the new income (see above). if theaters had 2^ 48 colors while regular tv only had 2^24 and the content was actually shot in 2^48 and downgraded to regular tv viewing you would have amazing effects in the theater that would
short term profits would drop as people would not want to see movies that are only marginally better because 256R256G was replaced with 256Y256Y but when the content is filmed in 6 spectrum color then you would add all the combinations of true yellow with all the other colors (ie 256R256Y) the picture in the theater would be so true to life it would be worth paying a premium to see. |
add things beside picture quality to the mix
like sound aromatics (timed release of smells with the movies) kenomatics (changes in temp, humidity etc timed to the movie) and you have tons of technology to perculate down to the home market each one creating new sales oppertunities to those that filmed at that level (see dvd, blue ray, widscreen etc) and edited down |
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music industry that lost all the money that went to content thieves in that report. What a crock of shit. That's like me stealing your car and then claiming that using the car as a taxi produced revenue of $50k and therefore stealing cars is good for the economy while ignoring that you got fired from your $50k job because you no longer had transportation, and subsequently defaulted on your $200k mortgage which forced the bank to sell it for $150k. |
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So are you suggesting that the movie studios simply share in the revenue brought in from the commercials sold on their broadcasts? If not how do you determine the value of a movie and how much to charge for a licensing fee? Quote:
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And who said they lost money? The MPAA? Please....the MPAA has been proven full of shit in Court, they can't provide how or where they got the numbers of "loss" from. That's because it's made up. Both the music and movie Industries have had record earnings, ticket sales, broke records all over the place last year - in America and around the World. Actually if anything, music has exploded... They didn't lose shit. I don't get your example.... whatever you think it is, it clearly it isn't. Fair use is very simple to understand, if Copyright was absolute, we would never progress forward in anything, period. |
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about copyright law. The issue with copyright is that people can't grasp the concept of theft unless they are stealing a tangible product. Fair use is just fine. Torrents, illegal tubes, content theft is only fair use in the mind of a fucking thief. |
changed my mind its not worth it.
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it an insanely stupid arguement to say that the same thing methodology could not be uses for simalcast movies. Quote:
and millions of the people who downloaded it went to the theater to see the commercial version avatar had the same effect (cam vs 3d version) if crappy 3d with stupid glasses made that much of a difference image what 3d generated by such a gradient differences in color without crapy glasses would do. or add experiences like the smells of the rain forrest, wind, changes in temp, and 12 surround sound. if the movie was reasonably good in the context of story, and i was told about all the extra stuff i could get in the theater i would definately pay $20 to see it again. Quote:
the equipement to upgrade the theaters the equipment to film at the higher level the pre production cost (people to run, training etc) to utilize the equipement post production to downgrade to dvd/tv quality the sale of all the tvs that would need to be upgraded when that technology becomes more afforable (3 stages, early adopter, influencers, mass market) the sale price of the playing equipment support cost of the new technology (installing, repair, delivering, etc) repeat with the new technology (since when it hit mass market the theaters would need to implement a new technology to create the justification to see it in the theater) Quote:
ok let assume that some how your right, and the common practise of being able to resell the content in a better remastered version magically disappears from the standard technological upgrade cycle (vcr -> dvd-> blue ray) so what why should the fact that content producers lose out because an abuse of their monopoly is eliminated justify letting that abuse continue. we are talking about 60 trillion dollars of jobs to protect 300 million in jobs. Real world physical goods have way more jobs created then digital content. physical things have to be delivered, they have to be fixed they have to be installed. Those jobs are local so they don't get outsourced to foreign countries. internally created they benefit the countries economy more then content creation. Quote:
when the difference is great (3d vs non 3d or work print vs full movie) the number prove people will go and see the "real" version your arguement basically proves the point i am making, you don't care because for most movies the difference isn't worth going to the theater to see. create a technological superiority for the theaters and you go back to the days when we went to see star wars multiple times because the sound of the ships flying by actually seemed to move back right to front left (4 point vs standard stereo) when the movie was an immersive experience. |
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I think the number of people who would be willing to pay $20 for a movie is pretty slim. Where I live we have a theater (well it is actually about 25 miles from where I live) that offers a huge buffet of food, giant reclining chairs (like you would have in your living room) all digital screens and the promise of no kids in any movie that is meant for adults. They charge $20 per ticket because they are a "premium" service. I went there once and it was pretty cool. The place was at about 75% capacity on a Saturday night. They tried to open up a second location and it failed because they found out that one location is a novelty and something a lot of people were willing to do on occasion, two locations were too many and couldn't compete with the other theaters that cost half as much. There are people who would pay $20 for a movie if it really was a great experience, but there are many more who would pay $10, but skip it if it cost $20. Here is a perfect example. I paid the extra couple of bucks and saw Avatar in 3D. I liked it a lot and told my friends about it. Both of them decided not to go see it because their kids wanted to see it and they didn't want to pay the extra money for all of them. So they waited until it was out on DVD. If you have a spouse and 2 kids and you want to go to a movie, $40 is a lot of money, $80 is outrageous. Quote:
This also doesn't address the problem of lost revenue for the the content producer. They are the ones who suffer from piracy. All the increased sales of A/V gear in the world doesn't help them recoup their losses to pirates. Quote:
Also, all the great A/V gear in the world isn't worth a pile of shit if you have nothing to play on it. As piracy continues to grow we could see fewer and fewer movies being made. Fewer big budget movies being made and more lower budget, less risky movies made. People complain that there is only crap coming out of Hollywood now. Wait until they start losing more money to piracy and see what they make. The less chance for them to make money that they have the fewer risks they are going to take and the more mundane the crap is going to get. That aside, I still want to see proof as to how this increase in home theater technology is going to fuel a 60 trillion dollar/ year industry. Quote:
There are always going to be event movies that will do well no matter if they have large numbers of downloads or not. The movies that benefit the most from a theatrical release are movies like The Hangover. This movie did a lot better than anyone thought it would at the box office. Because of this they sold a lot more DVDs, had a ton more pay-per-view buys and I'm sure they got a pretty handsome price to sell the rights to HBO and other TV/cable providers. Had they released it to all channels at once that very well may not have happened. I have said all along that you get what you pay for. As you devalue content and treat it like it is filler or garbage to be used and tossed away at your whim, eventually you will get what you pay and chances are you won't like it. |
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it somehow impossible for the same methodology to be use for movies. Quote:
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remember that each technological advancement in components spures other industry and technologies mp3 commercialized solid state disk, reducing the price of solid state disk from $5/mb to $5/gb creating trillions of dollars worth of new technology, cell phones, pda, game machines etc all would not exist in their current form if solid state disk had not been commercialized. your obviously ignoring all of that technological advancement. but for the sake of arguement let ignore all of that say you only uses the hard statistics from the vcr days , the jobs created within the country for the sale of hard goods at the time 5 jobs were created selling vcr for every job lost making content. And here is the key vcr created a new sales channel for th content movies that were only sold in the theaters were sold on video cassette Quote:
only if your a world class moron who doesn't realize that each new medium provides another sales channel fact when people upgrade their vcr to dvd players they rebought their favorite movies they did the same thing when they upgraded to blue ray. http://www.amazon.com/Wall-Street-Bl.../dp/B000Y9Q59W wall street a movie released originally on video cassette is being sold on blue ray if your arguement had any validity then the sales of such a release would have to be zero. Quote:
let say it only as good as history has already proven use the old vcr numbers 5 jobs were gained for every job that was claimed to be lost none of those jobs were actually lost because studios started selling the movies to the people that bought the vcr (creating the greatest revenue greater than all other sources combined) Quote:
just one documented record that proves that capital investment in movie production has decreased. movie budgets have grown year after year, actors salaries have grown profits are up, more movies are being release Quote:
if your going to ignore all the spawned technologies that could exist by the commercialization of component technologies (ie all the industries/consumer devices that were created because solid state disk dropped from 5/mb to 5/gb) then yes it would be hard to see how it would be that great. for the sake of arguement let just pretend none of that exists. physical goods have massive LOCAL job creation in the support of those items the vcr created 5 jobs for every job "suspected" of being lost every dollar "suspected" of being lost was replaced with even more money when the platform was embraced. So none of those so called losses actually ever existed. Quote:
fact physical goods provide for the local economy when your dvr/pvr breaks you don't ship it all the way to china to get fixed you get it fixed at the local level fact content production and editing is continually being outsourced to cheap labor countries. even if the income loss balanced out perfectly protecting fair use would be good for a countries economy. Fact the vcr historical records proved for every one job projected to be lost in entertainment industry 5 jobs were created common sense supporting a physcial good creates more jobs than supporting a digital one. how many people do you think it takes to "deliver" a bunch of streamed content. how many people does it take to "deliver" a pallet lot of pvr/vcr etc. so this arguement basically comes down, because of a potential loss that only occurs for a small group of entertainment we should destroy all the jobs that would be created. jobs that history has repeatedly proven have been created every time we have had this dispute for "Suspected" income losses, and a dooms day senerio that has never happened even though it has been predicted time and time again. i have a simple question why should we believe that this dooms day senerio will happen this time given the fact that every previous time it has been predicted it never happened. |
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if all oil companies who controlled gasoline decided to only sell super unlead the first week of the month, uleaded the second week and regualar the last 2 weeks they could jack the price up of the premium grades a lot more than normal people who would be perfectly happy with regular gas in their car would be forced to pay $3/litre. but that extra money would be an abuse of the monopoly. When you point to the hangover and state that would not make the same amount of money if they let the mediums compete against each other fairly you are proving the point that i am making. All that extra money, is from artifically extending the monopoly on content distribution to medium selection. if the copyright holder liciences all the content to all the mediums at the same time they get all the money still. they just don't get revenue from forcing people to use a MEDIUM they don't want to use. look back at every fair use vcr = universal tried to force people to use a medium for timeshifting ( re runs) mp3= sony tried to force people to use a medium for playing (CD) the new medium was better, consumers prefered them because they had competitive advantages over the one that the copyright holder was attempting to force people to use. The copyright holder made more money by forcing such a medium choice, but fair use invalid that act, because the copyright monopoly is only supposed to protect the income from the distribution of the content, and not the income generated by abusing that monopoly to make an inferior medium superior. amazingly every single time that happened, more money was made by the content creators. |
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Yes when the VCR came into being they made more money. Why? Simple. They released the movie in theaters and built up word of mouth and built up anticipation then they sold the movie on tape. They use the theater as much as a form of marketing as they do a form of income and they should be allowed to use that tool as a way to sell their product. |
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