AZ shooter Jared Lee Loughner was registered Independent, did not vote in 2010
 

Useful information - like many of us, Loughner was registered independent.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the...s-a-regis.html

Because of people like these John and Sarah didn't win what was rightfully theirs.

I don't think he did what he did because of politics. Let's face it, you've got to be fucking mentally insane to pull out a handgun in a crowd and start blowing people away. He was too young to be too interested in politics.

I can imagine it's tough for kids these days. They were raised with all of the good things in the life, and the moment they must provide for themselves - "get a job" - they discover they are in a recession and unemployment is double digits. Rejected from the military, he's depressed, unable to get by, unable to get a job, unable to provide for himself. All of the dreams and expectations a teenager had two years ago - right out the door.

A 22 year old political science major/grad knows more about politics than most adults. :2 cents:

fuck. how am i supposed to assign blame to the democrats or republicans now? i'm lost.

He picked Independent because he failed to see the "Crazed Lunatics Party" check box.

At least he isn't affiliated with the Rent is Too Damn High Party (my personal favorite).

Despite the claim in the memo leaked from DHS and published by Fox News, no sign of any connection with AmRen American Renaissance the anti-immigrant group.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plu...d_possibl.html

you can only fix the problem with our government from the inside out.

he was also crazy..so does it really matter?

How would that matter at all? What party was the guy who shot Regan How about the guy who shot Kennedy??

Does not matter. he was a guy with a gun who wanted to kill someone there.

it matters to the extent that his registration as independent makes it clear that he was not specifically republican or democrat.

thus making it less easy to use him as a pawn in the national blame game that has become the obsession of the two sides.

both sides were eagerly painting him as either a disgruntled republican or a disgruntled democrat.

now we know, he was a disgruntled independent.

I didn't know that.

However, it's s still a fact. When your 22 - no matter what you study in college - you haven't even begun to live yet. A 22 year old kid "thinks" he knows it all, but the truth is while he might think he knows what he wants or where he stands, that will change in the next ten years.

My favorite president is Ronald Reagan. Was he a Republican or a Democrat? Your wrong. He was both - originally a Democrat, and then once he ran he was a Republican.

Ummm, the guy IS anti-gov, that's pretty much without question. But I haven't heard any decent media sources (outside of lame blogs) accuse him of being a tea bagger..

What was said was the rhetoric is out of control. It wasn't the left that said it, it's the middle... the majority, and it's correct.

And what happened is the right took that as "only them" because they are the ones guilty of doing it the most, not alone - but damn sure the most.

Yesterday the right wing talk show hosts throughout the day said it was nobodies fault, not left, right, etc the guy was crazy - BUT - then they said, if we want to blame someone....and proceeded to lay blame onto others/life/country for various reasons.

THAT'S the rhetoric WE have issues with and exactly what feeds crazy assholes like like that.

fucking independents, the loose cannons of the political system:2 cents:

"registered independent" sounds like an oxymoron

it does, but many states use that system - you are either a member of the two parties, or relegated to the "independent" category.

into which are thrown the libertarians, greens, many tea partiers, and pretty much everybody else.

Perhaps his registrations are not so relevant. Perhaps what was important is the movements of his limbs.

It seems as though you are trying to lessen the seriousness of this attack.

The guy killed a 9 year old girl and all you can think about is if he was a democrat or
republican?


Damn.

People in Tucson are crazy and on drugs. End of story! The media is trying to play it off as Tucson is a great middle class suburbia, this is far from the case. Here in Phoenix we have a saying, the farther south you go from downtown Phoenix the worse it gets and its true, from South Phoenix, Casa Grande, Maricopa, Tucson.... These are major drug trafficking and addicted areas, Tucson has more ghetto areas then it does nice areas. It is a poorer community. Even UofA is aged and in need of many upgrades they can not afford. This guy was more then likely hyped up on something, pissed off b/c he isnt rich and most the people who are politicians are rich so when he finally snapped he SNAPPED!

My biggest question which the media has not touched on is simple... How in the fuck does 1 guy with 1 hand gun (regardless of size of clip) shoot 20 people and kill 6 without some kind of training? Gang members, terrorist, all types of crazy people have shot off sub machine guns in crowds larger then this crowd and only killed 1-2 people and injured a few others... This guy was either REAL lucky (which i doubt) or something else isn't being told if you ask me.

According to the article he voted in 2008, but not since then...

Perhaps he was disillusioned by the candidates / results of the 2008 Presidential election and figured fuck it, voting doesn't matter. Many people feel that way...

And to some extent, they're right, such as in the 2008 Presidential election ... basically, given how the U.S. political system is setup, the only real choice was McCain and Obama. For some that was adequate, but for many others, those two candidates were essentially no choice at all - it's likely Loughner was felt that way.

As for what Loughner's political beliefs were ... very difficult to pin it down and doesn't appear to fit any simple left-right labels. He seems more of a lost person trying to find his way and constantly hitting road blocks...

I'll go out on a limb and theorize that his drug arrest (probably for cannabis "pot") likely further alienated him; furthering his distrust of the legal-political system.

The drug war, in large part, is based on lies, and moreover, is a way for the government to control people - his YouTube videos are off the deep end, but the underlying premise the government seeks to control people every way it can is sound nevertheless ... ie. buying traditional light bulbs will soon be illegal; the Feds already dictate the type of toilets one can legally install.

Anyways, him getting caught up in the drug war by getting arrested for drug possession, may have further precipitated his anger; seeking out revenge on "the system".

Getting back to Giffords, the shooting leads some to ponder whether all U.S. House members will eventually need security details...

Keep in mind the U.S. population has greatly grown in the past 50 years and yet the number of U.S. House representatives is still 435; averaged out across the entire U.S. population, each one of them represents 700,000+ people - that implies each of them has a lot of power - Giffords sitting outside at a table in public with no visible security protection could be, in part, why Loughner singled her out.

Ron

the point is to examine the partisan blame frenzy. and to point out that this event may not have been as partisan as was originally claimed by both sides.

in what way does looking at that issue lesson "seriousness"?

altho, I am probably not as shocked as you are claiming to be about the killing of a child. much worse is coming over the next few decades.

This ain't about who the loon voted for, over-the-top political rhetoric, Palin's goofy target posters or even gun control.

The perp was crazier than a squirrel on ecstasy. He worshiped a skull he kept in his backyard for crying out loud.

Im really sorry but I disagree with everything you stated in this. And if you have any real sources for your info posted in your reply i will be more then happy to give them some real thought. However to say the drug war at the border of AZ is based on lies is very ignorant and if you base it off any content you have come across it is based off false content. Yes all politicians lie to pass laws they want passed, however this law had very real merritt that all people in AZ have to deal with every day.

[Anyways, him getting caught up in the drug war by getting arrested for drug possession, may have further precipitated his anger; seeking out revenge on "the system".] I agree with this, he had some serious issues.

Our drug/border war and the kidnappings, rapes, home invasions, killings, and everything else that we and Mexicans at the North End of the Mexican boarder have had to deal with has been off the charts. This boarder in the most part since it has been a boarder has been the most laxed boarder of any Super Power Country. Between the 60's till now the under ground drug trade has rivaled the US stock market in profits earned for its investors. 80% of this drug trade involves marijuana, since you do not need a lab for pot it will always stay this way. We basically give cartels a thriving market with no US competition on a large scale, and then we leave our boarders open for them to use... You do the math on that one lol. (BTW I am not saying coke or meth are not profitable from mexico or south america, nor should they be legal and they will always stay an underground trade same with heroin)

and I also hope either incandescent light bulbs are made illegal, or better yet coal and oil electricity become illegal. Either way both are a huge waste when so many other real ideas have been presented and until oil and coil cant make any money they will out weigh the small guys trying to change things.

Tucson might not be the safest place on earth, but shit this isn't LA, Detroit, or some giant crime infested community. Any city anywhere in America has it's problems, Phoenix included! To sit here and say everyone in Tucson is on drugs is ridiculous. Your theory of him being pissed off because he isn't rich and decided to snap on a politician is nearly comical. Like ok, I'm poor so the best thing to do is shoot a Congress member? That will once and for all show these rich politicians not to mess with me! This guy is obviously crazy but your comments make me question your sanity as well.

What you're referring to is the effect of the drug war - you're spot on regarding the violence, money, etc.

However, in regards to "lies", what I was referring to is the faulty reasoning used for outlawing various plants / substances, in particular, cannabis (pot) to begin with.

Ron

All this and other post just sound like excuses to me.

The guy didn't shoot a 7-11 store clerk, he shot a politician.

He knew who he was going after and it was politically motivated.

Denying that is just bullshit.

It's not like the guy ran outside his home and started shooting wildly and a
politician was accidentally hit. He went after her with a grudge.

A political grudge.

The reality behind your post is very simple :

You will feel better about yourself if the guy is not a republican.
You don't feel shit for the victims, which pretty much makes you a republican.

End of story.

You know as ludicrous as it sounds you are exactly on my point. And I am in no way saying it is like LA at all. However Tucson does have some serious drug issues due to its location. Alot of meth, coke, pot, and humans come to tucson giving it one hell of an underground commerce that even business owners are getting involved in to help pay there bills in these hard times. And why not? The government isnt helping at all so why listen when you are about to lose everything? Is everyone in Tucson on drugs, no, but they have a very high capita rating of middle class users and pushers. My statement was mearly to reflect that the idea this was fully motivated by a sober mind is just as insane and fucked up as the guy who did this.

Read up on "energy density" - that's the prime reason oil and coal are still the primary energy source for many things.

The quantity of potential power contained in a small quantity of coal or a gallon of gasoline is quite large and difficult to match with solar or wind. Hydro is a viable alternative, but is of very limited availability; productive dams are few and far between.

Nuclear is about the only real alternative for large-scale power generation, but obviously comes with numerous drawbacks, such as disposal and security (they're related to each other in regards to why there's so much nuclear waste generated from U.S. reactors).

Small-scale power generation is another path, and is about the only place where solar, in particular, can be viable, but as of now, the costs of panels is still very high; externalized costs, since it takes a lot of energy to make solar panels and related components, such as batteries.

Ron

that would be an interesting argument.

if I were a republican. i am strongly anti-republican.

i regard republicans as laughably stupid at best, malicious traitors to this country at worst, and all profoundly incapable of understanding what is happening to this country.

democrats are not much better - i would say they are less malicious and less treasonous, but often just as stupid. and while they are more capable of understanding what is happening, they stupidly refuse to do so. which arguably makes them more blameworthy than republicans, who are too stupid even to begin to look at root causes.

---

clearly the shooting was politically motivated. it was an assassination.

and the only people talking about shooting and violent overthrow of the government and the blood of patriots are the republicans, and fox news.

the kid was crazy or half crazy, a weak mind enflamed with violent rhetoric, who killed a democratic female jewish congressperson.

it does not get much more obvious than that.

True.. he did worship a skull or.. whatever, and that's pretty whack. Hehe

It seems people like Loughner, feed on fear in odd ways and directions, created from the information they take in. And overall our Media today, all around... spews miss information, the use half/false suggestive topics, twist topics to slant views, and then each of them are doing it. Our mainstream news is filled with fear, end of days, money/gold subjects, president, local issues, it's all bad...it's all twisted... before we get into political shows, radio, etc - which twist it again, no mater what side they appear to be on - everything is fucked beyond repair.

At that politicians have, and many even on this forum have said it's time to rise up and take back the country, use our guns if you would. It's not all one party...but mostly it is.

All this crap does is feed the fear machine.. and all that does is set off crazy people.

Your statement and idea still doesn't make sense to me. All you are doing by suggesting that this guy was under the influence of whatever is making an excuse for him and taking us away from the real issue. Jared Loughner is the real problem, not a drug or some sort of minuet influence in his life. The dude is SICK, not because of drugs. If you have been following the story closely you would know that this wasn't an incident that was thought up the morning of the event, its not like he smoked some crack and thought "ok this is it, it's time". From both his myspace and youtube account it's clear that he has been wanting to make an attack like this for quite some time. There is also interviews from his friends who claim he was obsessed with "conscience dreaming" and thought he could control his dreams, become someone else, fly, and even kept a year long journal of his dreams. Now does that seem like someone who snapped because he was mad at a politician because they are rich? Or because he woke up that morning and did a line that caused him to go on a shooting spree? I don't think so. I guess my point is that there will ALWAYS be shit like this that happens, it's unfortunate but true. There aren't any gun laws or drug restrictions that will prevent stuff like this. Some people (like JLL) are just FUCKED IN THE HEAD, and unless there is someone brave enough or smart enough to predict someone doing something like this it's just something that will be part of our society. BTW, no hard feelings, not trying to personally attack you. Just giving my :2 cents:

I understand energy density and the power of coil and oil. However the long term effect of these products is not worth it in my opinion. And studies are in, global warming is in fact real.

Fact is, oil, coil, nuclear, and solar all do the same thing... Make steam to move a gear shaft. Dams do the same thing just without the steam. Wind also moves gear shafts... Focused solar arays can also create similar amounts of steam pressure as coil plants, they just take up more land rather then mining a product.

Here is one point that nearly every engineer on the planet has agreed on. Hydrogen fuel cells are the future. We make enough green power to create plenty of hydrogen to fuel our homes, cars and any needs. Add a few green aspects to your life like new light bulbs, new toilets, power saving electronics... it would start to add up in a huge amounts. They just need more money put into them to make there cost more feasible for the regular person. Right now the fuel cell alone costs $65k-150k

Basically my point is there are alot of ideas on the table, and instead of money going to them they go to oil investors pockets, cleaning up the oil spills, basically everywhere else but the ideas on the table.

I dont mean to be political at all, but I am one who wants my grand children to have a planet to live on.

hahaha you and Smokie are cracking me up comparing a sand shit hole like Tucson to LA...favorably?

no your missing my point, i dont think it was isolated, i know he was intelligent, in college, and had a point to make. What I am saying is from his pics I seen they showed for a timeline from high school till now, he is in fact on something. Its not an excuse at all, but drugs like meth can cause a brilliant person to completely lose it and go off the deep end. I really think this is the case here, he has some features on his face that show heavy drug use for atleast 1 year.

Im just giving my point of view based off the pics i have seen of teh guy and the reports I have seen. I have been watching it closely since it first started.

Oh it's common knowledge that LA has less crime then Tucson? Sorry I was unaware. Go back to your other thread.

im not comparing them, however most of LAs drugs that come from mexico come thru the AZ boarder and Tucson more then the Cali boarder and San Diego. Just look at the extremely raised security on the I-8 just west of Yuma...

Well Smokie we agree to disagree, oh well.

What does it matter? The powers that be want Americans disarmed before the SHTF. This event will be played politically to provide the leverage they need to go much further in that pursuit.

Congress readies new gun-control bills after Gabrielle Giffords shooting

..limiting the number of rounds in a clip, and banning guns within 1,000 feet government officials is (IMO) just the starting point of the proposed new gun control bills. It will be interesting to see how far they are permitted to go, and how much they end up getting away with.

OR, it could lead to politicians and staff petitions to carry conceal weapons. :winkwink:

Maybe all of a sudden the right to bare arms will seem relevant to people who are
actually being gunned down instead of sitting at the computer fantasizing about
how safe life is.

Regular people are getting robbed, raped, murdered and shot at everyday and that's
why they want guns.

Any crook with half a brain can make a "gun" from things bought at a hardware
store. Banning guns just means that more shitty guns will be made. :1orglaugh

https://youtube.com/watch?v=QNXkUA0KFNY


Go to 1:50 of the video :
HAHAHA!!!
HAHAHA!!!
HAHAHA!!!
HAHAHA!!!

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh - Crazy fuckers!

here's an example of how willfully and maliciously stupid republicans are.

even tho they fully well know better, they blame the weed.

http://www.nerve.com/news/current-ev...izona-shooting

cue the republicans here to line up in agreement...

Funny you mention this, I was watching some news coverage, either Fox or CNN. And this group of like 4 to 5 guys are sitting around the news desk talking about the shooting. One of them goes on to say something a long the lines of "yeah ya know when you have kids like this that just sit around and smoke pot all day, stuff like this is bound happen". I seriously started laughing, I mean really... did you just say that on national TV you dumb piece of shit. It wasn't the guy you listed here and I wish I could find the video, what a dumbass though seriously. Luckily everyone around him realized how dumb the comment was and quickly jumped in, stating that this was obviously a larger issue then some teen who just gets high. It's just crazy to think about what some people allow to spew out of their mouths, actually believing that's its the truth. Idiots. :disgust

Nothing is more entertaining then watching a group of stupid porn peddlers look at a minority of a party and then claim the whole party is retarded. Good show Bill8:)

it's just a statement of personal opinion.

not a claim of truth.

I do have hopes that your side will eventually look at root causes and start thinking more clearly. I just wish your side was really conservative, and not fraudulent.

altho, perhaps you are thinking clearly, and the problems will all be solved by bibles and covertly raising taxes. I am always open to the possibility that I am wrong.

arguably, as I said, I despise the democrats more, because they are less stupid, and therefore more responsible for the criminally negligent actions of dem politicians and policies.

some day you and I will have a discussion about the differences between what the republicans claim they are doing and what they actually do.