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-   -   re: hd video editing, will more RAM make up for a slightly under-powered processor? (https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=1026048)

dyna mo 06-10-2011 08:47 AM
re: hd video editing, will more RAM make up for a slightly under-powered processor?
 
my new video cam records in 1080/60P avchd format that requires a minimum i7 2.8GHz chip. my rig is a i7 2.67GHz and the playback in pp 5.5 is just slightly choppy. my current ram = 6g ddr3. if i double the ram will that make up for the slightly underpowered processor?

:)

AdultKing 06-10-2011 08:49 AM
More RAM always helps providing your OS can address it.

More RAM means bigger buffers. Slow hard disks will be the bane of your existence though so check their specs too.

MaDalton 06-10-2011 08:50 AM
no

just look at the task manager, you will see that probably not more than 1-2 gb are used by the editing program anyways

and yes, fast HDs help

Lace 06-10-2011 08:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaDalton (Post 18207038)
no

just look at the task manager, you will see that probably not more than 1-2 gb are used by the editing program anyways
+1

I've never had any issues with 4gb. I'm running a quadcore which does pretty damn good IMO.

dyna mo 06-10-2011 08:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdultKing (Post 18207030)
More RAM always helps providing your OS can address it.

More RAM means bigger buffers. Slow hard disks will be the bane of your existence though so check their specs too.
i have 3 1+TB drives on this box, one of them chatters constantly and takes about 8-10 seconds to access when i try to via windows explorer, it's not my main drive though, do you think that could impact overall performance?

dyna mo 06-10-2011 08:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaDalton (Post 18207038)
no

just look at the task manager, you will see that probably not more than 1-2 gb are used by the editing program anyways

and yes, fast HDs help
fuck, i'm only off by 1.33 GHz! new rig i guess.

facialfreak 06-10-2011 08:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 18207046)
i have 3 1+TB drives on this box, one of them chatters constantly and takes about 8-10 seconds to access when i try to via windows explorer, it's not my main drive though, do you think that could impact overall performance?
Check and make sure you have the IDE native role is set to Serial ATA in the BIOS ... not Automatic ...

it should NEVER take 8-10 seconds to read a modern hard drive ... :Oh crap

NoWhErE 06-10-2011 08:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 18207021)
my new video cam records in 1080/60P avchd format that requires a minimum i7 2.8GHz chip. my rig is a i7 2.67GHz and the playback in pp 5.5 is just slightly choppy. my current ram = 6g ddr3. if i double the ram will that make up for the slightly underpowered processor?

:)
No, your CPU isnt fast enough to process and swap all the information being sent from the video. With more RAM you can pre-render longer previews, work on bigger projects involving more clips, etc. But for actual playback, its all about CPU power and your video card.

Try decreasing playback resolution by right clicking on your playback monitor.

OR! Use Proxy Videos. Here is how to work with Proxy Videos :


Premiere Pro comes ready with Adobe Media Encoder, a handy little program for batch transcoding video. Drag your HD video files onto Adobe Media Encoder, select 640x480 as your video size, QuickTime as your file, and JPEG2000 or PNG as your codec while keeping your native framerate.

Why JPEG2000 or PNG? Both codecs are standard cross-platform QuickTime codecs, with JPEG being slightly lossy, and PNG being lossless. You'll end up with compact, high quality proxy videos that you can take between PC or MAC to edit in Premiere Pro.

Next, open up Adobe Premiere Pro and create a new project with a new sequence that matches your proxy video settings. Import all of the proxy videos into your project and go wild with editing. You'll notice your work area and effects previews all pre-render more quickly because your source videos are smaller.

Now here comes the fun part. In the same project, open a new sequence that matches your HD video settings. Return to your proxy sequence, select all of and copy your timeline, then paste the timeline into your HD sequence. All your cuts, effects, and transitions remain in tact.

In your project list, right click each proxy video and select 'Replace Footage' to replace your proxy video with your corresponding HD video file. Voila, you now have a full edit of your HD footage ready to be exported.

MaDalton 06-10-2011 08:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 18207059)
fuck, i'm only off by 1.33 GHz! new rig i guess.
weird - i can edit HD video (1080i at least) on my 5 year old laptop - i guess it also depends on the program (which in my case is Ulead Media Studio Pro - which is not updated anymore unfortunately)

dyna mo 06-10-2011 09:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by facialfreak (Post 18207068)
Check and make sure you have the IDE native role is set to Serial ATA in the BIOS ... not Automatic ...

it should NEVER take 8-10 seconds to read a modern hard drive ... :Oh crap
i will reboot and check that, ty. :thumbsup
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoWhErE (Post 18207070)
No, your CPU isnt fast enough to process and swap all the information being sent from the video. With more RAM you can pre-render longer previews, work on bigger projects involving more clips, etc. But for actual playback, its all about CPU power and your video card.

Try decreasing playback resolution by right clicking on your playback monitor.

OR! Use Proxy Videos. Here is how to work with Proxy Videos :


Premiere Pro comes ready with Adobe Media Encoder, a handy little program for batch transcoding video. Drag your HD video files onto Adobe Media Encoder, select 640x480 as your video size, QuickTime as your file, and JPEG2000 or PNG as your codec while keeping your native framerate.

Why JPEG2000 or PNG? Both codecs are standard cross-platform QuickTime codecs, with JPEG being slightly lossy, and PNG being lossless. You'll end up with compact, high quality proxy videos that you can take between PC or MAC to edit in Premiere Pro.

Next, open up Adobe Premiere Pro and create a new project with a new sequence that matches your proxy video settings. Import all of the proxy videos into your project and go wild with editing. You'll notice your work area and effects previews all pre-render more quickly because your source videos are smaller.

Now here comes the fun part. In the same project, open a new sequence that matches your HD video settings. Return to your proxy sequence, select all of and copy your timeline, then paste the timeline into your HD sequence. All your cuts, effects, and transitions remain in tact.

In your project list, right click each proxy video and select 'Replace Footage' to replace your proxy video with your corresponding HD video file. Voila, you now have a full edit of your HD footage ready to be exported.

i will take a closer look at this, ty. re: proxy video, i had hoped cineform NEO would handle the AVCHD format but NEO doesn't even see a recording device when i hook up the new cam to the computer. i've got a trouble ticket in at cineform now to see what that issue is, i'm hoping that will work instead of having to get a new machine.

ty!

dyna mo 06-10-2011 09:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaDalton (Post 18207074)
weird - i can edit HD video (1080i at least) on my 5 year old laptop - i guess it also depends on the program (which in my case is Ulead Media Studio Pro - which is not updated anymore unfortunately)
1080/60p avchd is a different animal. i can edit & render 1080i all day.

NoWhErE 06-10-2011 09:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 18207080)
i will reboot and check that, ty. :thumbsup



i will take a closer look at this, ty. re: proxy video, i had hoped cineform NEO would handle the AVCHD format but NEO doesn't even see a recording device when i hook up the new cam to the computer. i've got a trouble ticket in at cineform now to see what that issue is, i'm hoping that will work instead of having to get a new machine.

ty!
I guarantee you don't need a new machine.

Phoenix 06-10-2011 09:05 AM
no i dont believe it will
your speed is probably hampered by the board it is on as well
so sometimes doubling up ram is a waste of money

dyna mo 06-10-2011 11:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoWhErE (Post 18207083)
I guarantee you don't need a new machine.
i would like to follow up on your guarantee eh. :winkwink: even the camera owner's manual states a min 2.8 i7 is required for smooth playback of 1080/60p avchd video.

munki 06-10-2011 11:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoWhErE (Post 18207070)
No, your CPU isnt fast enough to process and swap all the information being sent from the video. With more RAM you can pre-render longer previews, work on bigger projects involving more clips, etc. But for actual playback, its all about CPU power and your video card.

Try decreasing playback resolution by right clicking on your playback monitor.

OR! Use Proxy Videos. Here is how to work with Proxy Videos :


Premiere Pro comes ready with Adobe Media Encoder, a handy little program for batch transcoding video. Drag your HD video files onto Adobe Media Encoder, select 640x480 as your video size, QuickTime as your file, and JPEG2000 or PNG as your codec while keeping your native framerate.

Why JPEG2000 or PNG? Both codecs are standard cross-platform QuickTime codecs, with JPEG being slightly lossy, and PNG being lossless. You'll end up with compact, high quality proxy videos that you can take between PC or MAC to edit in Premiere Pro.

Next, open up Adobe Premiere Pro and create a new project with a new sequence that matches your proxy video settings. Import all of the proxy videos into your project and go wild with editing. You'll notice your work area and effects previews all pre-render more quickly because your source videos are smaller.

Now here comes the fun part. In the same project, open a new sequence that matches your HD video settings. Return to your proxy sequence, select all of and copy your timeline, then paste the timeline into your HD sequence. All your cuts, effects, and transitions remain in tact.

In your project list, right click each proxy video and select 'Replace Footage' to replace your proxy video with your corresponding HD video file. Voila, you now have a full edit of your HD footage ready to be exported.
Bit of a different approach to proxy videos, but same result eod using this method...

I typically setup my projects from source vid first, then dump source vids to proxy directly from Premier or After Effects... on test/display renders leave your "use proxy" setting on, for final dumps, turn off... Bit less tracking throughout the process, but same general end result.

MaDalton 06-10-2011 11:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 18207081)
1080/60p avchd is a different animal. i can edit & render 1080i all day.
i'm old fashioned :(

dyna mo 06-10-2011 11:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoWhErE (Post 18207070)
No, your CPU isnt fast enough to process and swap all the information being sent from the video. With more RAM you can pre-render longer previews, work on bigger projects involving more clips, etc. But for actual playback, its all about CPU power and your video card.

Try decreasing playback resolution by right clicking on your playback monitor.

OR! Use Proxy Videos. Here is how to work with Proxy Videos :


Premiere Pro comes ready with Adobe Media Encoder, a handy little program for batch transcoding video. Drag your HD video files onto Adobe Media Encoder, select 640x480 as your video size, QuickTime as your file, and JPEG2000 or PNG as your codec while keeping your native framerate.

Why JPEG2000 or PNG? Both codecs are standard cross-platform QuickTime codecs, with JPEG being slightly lossy, and PNG being lossless. You'll end up with compact, high quality proxy videos that you can take between PC or MAC to edit in Premiere Pro.

Next, open up Adobe Premiere Pro and create a new project with a new sequence that matches your proxy video settings. Import all of the proxy videos into your project and go wild with editing. You'll notice your work area and effects previews all pre-render more quickly because your source videos are smaller.

Now here comes the fun part. In the same project, open a new sequence that matches your HD video settings. Return to your proxy sequence, select all of and copy your timeline, then paste the timeline into your HD sequence. All your cuts, effects, and transitions remain in tact.

In your project list, right click each proxy video and select 'Replace Footage' to replace your proxy video with your corresponding HD video file. Voila, you now have a full edit of your HD footage ready to be exported.
trying this, 1st issue is PNG encodes the 1st frame as a static image.

pornguy 06-10-2011 11:38 AM
I am replacing mine with a new i7 turbo3.4 8 gigs of ram. Be careful how far you go with the ram as some i7 chips and mother boards wont take more than 8.

and you need a 64bit os.

NoWhErE 06-10-2011 11:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 18207457)
trying this, 1st issue is PNG encodes the 1st frame as a static image.
I usually use Quicktime - PHOTO JPG (or JPG2000).

Whatever you use, the point is to downgrade the quality to a 640x480 format and use that to make your edits, then replace those shitty quality videos with the HD files once you're done.

dyna mo 06-10-2011 11:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoWhErE (Post 18207070)
No, your CPU isnt fast enough to process and swap all the information being sent from the video. With more RAM you can pre-render longer previews, work on bigger projects involving more clips, etc. But for actual playback, its all about CPU power and your video card.

Try decreasing playback resolution by right clicking on your playback monitor.

OR! Use Proxy Videos. Here is how to work with Proxy Videos :


Premiere Pro comes ready with Adobe Media Encoder, a handy little program for batch transcoding video. Drag your HD video files onto Adobe Media Encoder, select 640x480 as your video size, QuickTime as your file, and JPEG2000 or PNG as your codec while keeping your native framerate.

Why JPEG2000 or PNG? Both codecs are standard cross-platform QuickTime codecs, with JPEG being slightly lossy, and PNG being lossless. You'll end up with compact, high quality proxy videos that you can take between PC or MAC to edit in Premiere Pro.

Next, open up Adobe Premiere Pro and create a new project with a new sequence that matches your proxy video settings. Import all of the proxy videos into your project and go wild with editing. You'll notice your work area and effects previews all pre-render more quickly because your source videos are smaller.

Now here comes the fun part. In the same project, open a new sequence that matches your HD video settings. Return to your proxy sequence, select all of and copy your timeline, then paste the timeline into your HD sequence. All your cuts, effects, and transitions remain in tact.

In your project list, right click each proxy video and select 'Replace Footage' to replace your proxy video with your corresponding HD video file. Voila, you now have a full edit of your HD footage ready to be exported.

i just encoded the file in uncompressed avi and edited the proxy video, now i set-up the second sequence and all, right clicked to replace video and only get a *replace clip-->from bin. there's nothing there, nothing happens, that doesn't work. :-(

NoWhErE 06-10-2011 11:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 18207504)
i just encoded the file in uncompressed avi and edited the proxy video, now i set-up the second sequence and all, right clicked to replace video and only get a *replace clip-->from bin. there's nothing there, nothing happens, that doesn't work. :-(
Then you're doing something wrong. I used to do this on a daily basis when HD first came out.



1 - Take all your HD clips in the bin and throw them into media encoder. Make low resolution version of them.

2 - Make a timeline with the low resolution settings (example : 640x480). Edit the video using the low res files that are now in your bin.

3 - Once done, create a new timeline with HD settings (HDV 1080i60 for example).

4 - Copy and paste the clips from the low-res timeline into the new High-res Timeline. Everything will be exactly the same.

5 - Go to your bin, right click on the low-res files and select REPLACE FOOTAGE. Select the corresponding HD file from your harddrive.

6 - Do that for every low-res clip you have in your bin. Voilą You should now have a fully edited HD timeline. No lag or hiccups while editing.

dyna mo 06-10-2011 11:51 AM
screencap, i click *from bin* and nothing happens. :-(

http://oi55.tinypic.com/2q1e1ad.jpg

NoWhErE 06-10-2011 12:06 PM
You're not clicking on the clip IN THE BIN

see image for what I mean :)

http://www.jasonrouleau.com/bin.jpg

dyna mo 06-10-2011 12:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoWhErE (Post 18207519)
Then you're doing something wrong. I used to do this on a daily basis when HD first came out.
i understand that. i am not challenging you, nevertheless, i am not able to duplicate your suggestion.

i've transcoded the original into playable avi, edited that, copied it into a 2nd sequence, loaded the original vid into the source screen, right clicked the timeline and selected replace footage with video from source screen, it just jams in to the shorter timeline the same timeline and just clips off the end.

NoWhErE 06-10-2011 12:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 18207547)
i understand that. i am not challenging you, nevertheless, i am not able to duplicate your suggestion.

i've transcoded the original into playable avi, edited that, copied it into a 2nd sequence, loaded the original vid into the source screen, right clicked the timeline and selected replace footage with video from source screen, it just jams in to the shorter timeline the same timeline and just clips off the end.
I know you're not challenging me, I'm just saying I used this method alot :)


Ok, this is what you're doing wrong : loaded the original vid into the source screen, right clicked the timeline and selected replace footage with video from source screen


Actually, you don't need to load the original vid into the source screen.

Once you've copied the low-res timeline into the High-Res Timeline, go to your BIN (the window at the far left where your low res clips are stored) and right click on the video file in the bin. A menu will popup with the option to REPLACE FOOTAGE.

Click that. A browser window will popup, go find your HD video. Select it.

Boom. You're low res file is now replaced with its high res version.

dyna mo 06-10-2011 12:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoWhErE (Post 18207557)
I know you're not challenging me, I'm just saying I used this method alot :)


Ok, this is what you're doing wrong : loaded the original vid into the source screen, right clicked the timeline and selected replace footage with video from source screen


Actually, you don't need to load the original vid into the source screen.

Once you've copied the low-res timeline into the High-Res Timeline, go to your BIN (the window at the far left where your low res clips are stored) and right click on the video file in the bin. A menu will popup with the option to REPLACE FOOTAGE.

Click that. A browser window will popup, go find your HD video. Select it.

Boom. You're low res file is now replaced with its high res version.

i appreciate the help but same result.

the edit i did to the avi was clip out several minutes from the middle, i then used that timeline in the new sequence #2, highlighted it, went to the bin, selected it, right clicked, replace footage, found the original avchd file and clicked it, it clipped the end of the video off to make it fit, it did not clip out the middle section as it was edited.

datatank 06-10-2011 12:24 PM
I always found that having the operating system on a seperate HDD than the video sped things up. Be sure to get a super fast HDD too.

dyna mo 06-10-2011 12:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoWhErE (Post 18207557)
I know you're not challenging me, I'm just saying I used this method alot :)


Ok, this is what you're doing wrong : loaded the original vid into the source screen, right clicked the timeline and selected replace footage with video from source screen


Actually, you don't need to load the original vid into the source screen.

Once you've copied the low-res timeline into the High-Res Timeline, go to your BIN (the window at the far left where your low res clips are stored) and right click on the video file in the bin. A menu will popup with the option to REPLACE FOOTAGE.

Click that. A browser window will popup, go find your HD video. Select it.

Boom. You're low res file is now replaced with its high res version.
ok, i got it, finally! fuck. thank you.. this should work well.

:thumbsup

munki 06-10-2011 12:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 18207568)
i appreciate the help but same result.

the edit i did to the avi was clip out several minutes from the middle, i then used that timeline in the new sequence #2, highlighted it, went to the bin, selected it, right clicked, replace footage, found the original avchd file and clicked it, it clipped the end of the video off to make it fit, it did not clip out the middle section as it was edited.
Built for AE, but same general process in Premiere... this is the flow I have been using for years.

NoWhErE 06-10-2011 12:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 18207580)
ok, i got it, finally! fuck. thank you.. this should work well.

:thumbsup
No problem, now go promote CrakCash :)

dyna mo 06-10-2011 12:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by munki (Post 18207582)
Built for AE, but same general process in Premiere... this is the flow I have been using for years.
yeah, i was messing up by exporting a complete timeline after the edits then using that.


thanks for the help everyone and nowhere especially. :)

dyna mo 06-10-2011 12:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoWhErE (Post 18207598)
No problem, now go promote CrakCash :)
as long as there are no naked pics of jman involved! :1orglaugh

NoWhErE 06-10-2011 12:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 18207608)
as long as there are no naked pics of jman involved! :1orglaugh
Sorry, I can't promise that.

PornoMonster 06-10-2011 01:46 PM
From my experience, get the BEST Video card you can.
Then again you should have the fastest CPU out also, but if not, the better the video card the more it helps.
The computer I use for video editing is also only used for that, so it is almost Never on the internet.
Thus, I can remove ALL BS running programs including all Anti Virus.

Adding more ram can never be a bad thing. Yes some people will say Video only uses 2 gig or something, but let me tell you, when I doubled mine, it sure did help.
Not sure if it helped with the bottle necking or whatever but it helps.

Also YES dissable that slow ass HD you have.
Also have fast Hard drives to write to, helps..

Keep in mind every little bit helps......

PornoMonster 06-10-2011 01:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by datatank (Post 18207579)
I always found that having the operating system on a seperate HDD than the video sped things up. Be sure to get a super fast HDD too.
YEP YEP
And no extra External drives running.

munki 06-10-2011 01:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PornoMonster (Post 18207951)
YEP YEP
And no extra External drives running.
Or have the right externals... I run a RAID external connected through esata... just as fast as anyones internals outside off SSD

DirtyDanza 06-10-2011 02:33 PM
no matter what you do it will never edit like a mac sorry :(

sell it get the new macpro and final cut and call it a day


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