Piracy - some thoughts...
 

Hi Guys!

I've been lurking on here for a few weeks monitoring the posts regarding piracy and DMCA laws. It's obviously a major problem for the industry, I have my entire site's content made available but a group of cunts on a DC++ hub. From there the users pick up the new content - within days of an update where upon they post it and earn their affiliate dollars.

So far a number of us (in our niche) have been applying pressure on the file uploading sites. Some have given us a login so we can manually delete files instantly via a console although this took a LOT of pressure - basically bug the fuck out of them until they relent. We've also chased some hosts who have kicked forums from their servers. The problem is that they just run to the next host and will continue to do so until they end up in some fart flung like North Korea.

We're now getting to the stage where we are looking at legal action - you can delete only so many files before it dawns upon you that things are beyond a joke and something really does have to be done.

Why do Webmasters not group together in an attempt to bring about an action - surely the shared costs will make it affordable and we cannot lose can we? I do wonder how sites like pornbb continue to exist - why have none of the big studios taken action?

The good news is the efforts of the pirates will only expediate the development of a secure platform from which to server content up (although someone will make a lot of money out of us in the process) without making it freely available.

Interested to hear your thought re: legal action.

Regards,

The Fight Back!

good post, welcome and I am interested for thoughts as well.

Theres more to it than that but I am all ears. And you can count me in any legal action taken against pirates.

The main problem with that is that the pirates remain out of our jurisdiction.

ryan @ solorevenue dot com

My thoughts were to go after the file upload/download providers.

If you have evidence of repeated content being posted is this not enough to build a case. These guys are key to the 'business model' so if we can take a few out and the rest baulk it may make a difference!

pornbb exists because DMCA laws do not apply to them and the owners operate outside north america, as does the hosting, etc.

However there might be a way to get to them via oron.com (which has some connection to the united states)

i'd contribute under the right circumstances.

i wish i had fuck you money, i'd be suing Oron right now.

You can put pressure on the hosts, yes. You can pressure them into enforcing their rules on repeat infringers, which they currently do not. Especially oron.com

As nethorse posted in the past pornbb thread:

http://torrentfreak.com/hotfile-1000...awsuit-110118/

http://torrentfreak.com/hotfile-goes...ingers-110219/

Check out the last thread regarding oron/pornbb:

https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=1026...ghlight=pornbb

It's because there are posts and announcements like this every few months going back to the end of adult industry time. When you are trying to broker some sort of adult industry consortium - 9 times out of 10 there is at least several (if not many) people who have been fucked, scammed, cheated, ripped, (etc) by other people in the biz wanting in on the same thing. It's like the middle-east peace effort... everybody is on guard (from the past and rightfully so) and so nothing ever gets done. :2 cents:

You couldn't get a group from here to agree on where to eat lunch, never mind organizing and funding a legal effort. That's why nothing has happened so far.

.

Maybe not the regular posters.

per my previous post. I had Hong Kong counsel just within reach to take Oron on. However (just as history proves time and time again) another asian studio screwed over this counsel with non-payment. Now he wants nothing to do with anything adult. I know there are plenty of attorneys out there but case and point. :disgust

This is inspirational stuff - a long read but worth it!

www [dot] wp-board [dot]com

You're new dude... everything you are posting has been brought up before. It's nothing new.. search these forums and you will see.

Doesn't hurt to continue bringing it up. Some unmotivated webmasters have left the business and some new ones have began lurking here. Or maybe some of the posters here have been immediately effected by piracy recently so I say, keep the posts coming.

Maybe thefightback is infact willing to act. I wouldn't discredit anybody without knowing too much. So ill continue to be all ears to each of them.

Ok, let's say me, you and a third guy are going to take action.

My company does $3,000 a month.
Your company does $50,000 a month.
Guy three does $250,000 a month.

Do we equally fund this project? Do we pro-rate the cost? What do we base contributions of time and money on to be fair to everyone? Now add 20 more people with various levels of sales and profitably.

.

News for you. Some motivated webmasters have left the business as well. I am not discrediting anyone here... BRO.

I edited my post before I saw this incase you took my post wrong, i wasn't suggesting you were, i was suggesting i wouldn't. And not sure why you added a BRO to the end of your post?

Take it easy. Jesus, some people are so used to the trolls on this board that they just look for hostility

And I know some have left the business also, my point is that there are new people to this industry everyday

Who here remembers A1REK !!! This sounds very familiar !!

Alot of companies have joined together in class action law suit in history, most of which probably had more or less money than the other. I am not a lawyer and I would look to my lawyer and the other companies lawyers to answer that question in more detail. I figure it wouldn't be that hard to work something out

He's very much still here and deeply involved in biz.

I'm just saying a formula would need to be in place since the benefits to each company will vary. Agreeing on this alone will probably be a deal breaker with this group.

.

Might go to the FSC and ask about their Anti-Piracy Action Program.:thumbsup

Link to APAP site.

Good to hear :thumbsup

Perhaps my own case is unique in that my primary aim is to go for the hub owner who is pretty much laughing in my face - rather than a faceless 'business'. I know there are several other webmasters who will jump at the chance to get involved.

I'm just pissed off with more and more of my time being taken up with this bullshit, I see a lot of people bitching and moaning online so thought I would try and do something about it. If we all act we might just make progress.

Getting access to a console to delete files directly is a start and so is getting forum kicked off hosts so the action is being rewarded slowly.

Something else I forgot to mention was applying pressure to the payment providers - again if they can't get paid they can't operate. Paypal love to kick an account for selling topless calendars but are slower to respond to the big clients activites!

Oh definitely, well I can only assume that if anything was agreed upon and a group did infact file a lawsuit that it would most likely end in a settlement considering almost all of them do. And yes, how much an individual put towards the case would determine what they were returned. I don't think that would necessarily be the the hardest obstacle to overcome when it comes to the agreement among the parties

Like I said, going after that individual would be a waste of your time, sadly. Jurisdiction is one of the main reasons people arent tripping over themselves going for these guys.

That's not what the OP was walking about but I know how consistent you are about spamming them as much as possible. :disgust

But, you have to go into this assuming you might win nothing. With that in mind the start up funds and on-going expense percentages will be hard to agree on. Also figure in people leaving due to various causes.

Al Davis owner of the Oakland Raiders beat the NFL in an anti-trust lawsuit. He was even awarded triple damages. Only problem was the judge fixed the damage award at one dollar. Al got three bucks.

Not arguing the need of action being taken just pointing out the negatives.


.

Good luck OP. Seriously :2 cents: We've backed a lot of these exact same ventures over the years. I remember at least five now and sadly nothing was ever done.

The good news is that I know of three BIG adult file-sharing hosts suits in the works right now. Whether or not they get filed, that I am not sure. I keep my fingers crossed.

This is true. I could do into details about ways of working something like that out but this whole topic is too hard to go into without knowing the facts of the case first, the type of money people intend to go in with, the cost, etc.

But I do see what youre saying. It could get complicated, however I still believe negotiations could help overcome this as long as you have that all in mind. Or else look for multiple people going in with roughly the same amount, its how alot of businesses are formed.

But im sure deals like this have happened before and they (lawyers) can look back at how they were structured.

A few meetings with a lawyer and you would get a much better understanding.

FSC is good people :2 cents:

Seems appropriate to me.:2 cents:

To the top for clarity.

You're done... some folks never get it.

The reason people like the adult industry is because it's very unregulated, you can pretty much run your business however you like. But that's also why something like this will never work. The type of people who get into the adult business are lone wolfs, they don't work well in groups.

Piracy will end when:

1) It is no longer profitable.

or

2) Mainstream media companies change the laws and then adult companies can use them.

but is all of it for profit? I know the big link sites/forums are making money, but what about the guys posting everything?

I can't help but think there's tons of guys that rip off content and post it on forums because its a hobby -- that is, they do it for the hell of it.

all the file hosts have affiliate programs so you get paid per download.

NOPE, YOU are DONE.

Everyone knows who you are by now and people will stop doing business with you.

People, just search on google about this guy and you will find the TRUTH.

Let's see how long it takes before you change your name. :pimp ONE MORE TIME.

Take that up your BUTT. You will never learn, kiddo.

Fuck, you were absolutely right, I went to the first google result and found the truth. Thank you for enlightening me.

http://removeyourcontent.com/slander.html

Part of being in the anti-piracy business is dealing with the fallout, anger and hatred by pirate webmasters at our operations. A majority of the individuals and companies we deal with are extremely compliant. However.. there are a number of pirate webmasters, both in the United States and abroad, who have taken our infringement notices to an extreme and radical level. As we continue to expand our operations, we will be budgeting for more legal defense work in anticipation of further lawsuits to protect our brand.

All cases and cease/desist Notices will be maintained on this page beginning July 4, 2011. It's Independence Day, in the United States, and we are taking back our PR from the people who are intent on publishing FALSE AND DEFAMATORY malice in regards to our business operations/employees.

Defamation Lawsuit - 2009

Removeyourcontent was granted a permanent injunction against the bloggers in this case. The emailed threats were originating from the same individual(s). Blogspot.com (owned by Google) demanded a court order to remove the sites, from Removeyourcontent and its attorneys, however our decision was not to pursue the case further as the injunction was deemed sufficient.

Threats/Defamation: May 7, 2010 - Underground Station, Jeffrey King

Deposition of Google Representative: March 29, 2011 - Google.com, Blogspot.com

Fuck, you are absolutely right, I went to google and this is what I found when I search for "removeyourcontent scam" in FIRST PLACE in Google:

http://removeyourcontentsucks.blogspot.com/

You post URLS "admiral" ? Ok, then I can post URLs too... otherwise remove both, admin.

Pretty interesting story.

If only 1 percent of what that page says is TRUE, I guess this guy ERIC will have some serious LEGAL issues very soon. Probably sending him directly to prison for years. I will really laugh at that.

And probably more than 1% of what that page states is TRUE.

I'm sure he cant sleep at night, he's losing hair and will get sick very soon, due of the stress to manage this "dirty" and "hidden" model.

Or, everyone notes that the RIAA and MPAA haven't managed any successful action against these people, and as they have about 3409823094832094832094823 times more money and resource, it's unlikely some porn people will manage to win jack.

HAHAHAHAH!

I always suspected that little yob of being shady.

Exactly. This is the problem. Most people involved are real dweeb collectors. They don't even WATCH what they have, the goal is just to get EVERY lossless Green Day album, or EVERY 1080P episode of star trek TNG, or whatever. They just want to own it, or be the person that has it all, they don't care about money. Shut down the commercial ones, and then everyone goes back to usenet, or IRC, or private FTP or places that public trackers can't even find.

That would be considered an anti-piracy success. Usnet, IRC and private FTP sites aren't going to take up the first 50 pages on Google when you search for any movie title.

The goal of fighting piracy is not to stop it 100%, it's all about managing it. As long as it is either technically too hard or too inconvenient for the average Joe, you are managing piracy.

I made a post about the Xbox recently and that's a perfect example. You can crack open your Xbox and add a chip, then run pirated games after some additional steps, but it's beyond what the average Joe is capable of doing, so piracy among console games is managed pretty well when you compare it to other forms of media.

You'll always have your "collectors" and techie types who will share no matter how hard it is. The goal is to make it so the average Joe thinks it's not worth the effort.

The goal *should* be to make the product available how the punters want it, at a price they are prepared to pay.

Look at music and movies. They did what you are doing. Trying to fight a battle you can't win. Then they changed tack, and iTunes came out. Offering people music at a reasonable price that was REALLY easy to get. One click. Done. The experience was BETTER than piracy. So it succeeded. Now look at movies. Same thing. Netflix came about offering a BETTER experience at a reasonable price. Huge success now. Many camps are saying netflix is solely responsible for a reduction in p2p traffic on US ISPs. How about games? Look at Steam and the success they are getting. Same point. Better experience.

I'd suggest the time and effort and money spent trying to fight a battle you admit you can't win would be better spent trying to create a better mousetrap. After all, it has worked for movies and music.

So you are saying there is no piracy in the music, movie or PC gaming market because those industries have adapted and given the (ex) pirates what they want and now they don't pirate anything anymore?

iTunes solved music piracy? Netflix solved movie pirating?

Netflix is a success because it gave paying consumers a better experience, not because it attracted all the ex-pirates. Netflix stole customers from Blockbuster, not The Pirate Bay. iTunes worked because of genius marketing and it's integration with the iPod and other Apple products, not because they attracted all the music pirates. iTunes stole customers from record stores and Best Buy, not from pirate sites.

I agree that media companies have to adapt, but you are rewriting history a little bit with that last post.

Personally, I could care less either way. I got into adult when piracy was pretty much peaked so I have no fond memories of the "golden age" so never really lost money because of piracy. But you have to be honest and accurate when framing the piracy debate and that's the only reason I replied to your post.

So many hentai and gaming producers in Japan are on the verge of extinction due to piracy...I dont think they've solved anything except how to microwave ramen at the office.

What is the sound of a pirate crying when there's nothing left to steal?

No. But thanks for the lovely straw man. I am saying those industries have managed to offer people that were stealing content a better alternative that is inexpensive and offers a much better experience.

citations: http://torrentfreak.com/netflix-is-k...the-us-110427/

I think we should build a better product, price it affordably, and make it painstakingly easy to use.

What do you think we should do?

personally i love the flip flop

he goes from saying that

to rejecting your solution because it doesn't do a perfect job of stopping piracy