Are you a designer or a prostitute?
 

At least one time I need some comments about my thoughts!

Most people don't care about quality anymore, only the prices are important.

I do design for web, xHTML-CSS and I create WordPress themes.

If I say that I will charge US$ 500 someone will charge less and less, until some crazy dude charge 50 bucks for a custom piece of shit designed theme.

My last job:

http://www.maniaporno.com/
A WordPress theme for a brazilian blog.

I work with clean and elegant design.

I believe my work is good. I only need to find the right company or people to work with.

The true is:

"There are good designers making good money and there are good designers working for pennies, as well as there are bad designers making good money and bad designers working for almost nothing."

It is all about networking, human connections, contacts, meeting the right people, even if you work online from your home.

One thing I know for sure, we are designers, not prostitutes.

Let's start charging a fair price for our work.

:thumbsup

What is your idea of fair? I would pay $50 for what you listed, I would not pay $500.

I would like be become a prostitute... where can I apply?

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

24st and van buren if you have broke teeth we need to get them pulled :pimp

fucking clueless. :1orglaugh

stop calling yourself a designer that is the first problem. opening photoshop does not make you a designer.

you are an amateur.

anyone surviving these days PRICES DO NOT MATTER. they are willing to pay top dollar because they know it converts.

30$ no more for the design shown. Sorry dude. I guess i'm a whore then hehehehehe

most designers have no clue about optimizing traffic on a page and only about the pretty images in their heads.

ive fought with way to may "designers" in the past when I requested something to be changed and they came back complaining to me. if Im paying for it, it better be what I want.

my :2 cents:... designers need to learn about traffic flow and conversion metrics on a website and not about what looks pretty and how much you can rape someone for a cheap design

How about I sell your services for 75% commission ..... I'm a pimp!

As mentionned before, most designers have no clue as to what sells and think that anything they piece together is a peice of art.


A designer's job is to learn what sells and then that piece it together into a pretty package.

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh :1orglaugh

I've discovered that with blogs quality doesn't matter. If I pay $500 for a blog design or grab a free theme from somewhere, it makes no difference.

agreed, i dont even think i would pay 50 bucks for that.

Start showing samples worth $500...... the fonts in that one you sent annoy the life outta me!!

It's simple, someone asks for a quote, you tell them a price.
If they dont accept the price and you have morales, dont lower your price. $500 for a wordpress theme and integration is reasonable.

If someone wants a quote from, i tell them a price, I would never consider lowering a $500 job to $50, You also need to be a salesman, sell your services!!!

Nice layout. Not 500 nice. Unless you made a bunch of pages for the blog, its merely just some gradients and goofy font on a textured background.

Dont get me wrong, it looks good, Im just referring to the cost you presented.

How much extra did you charge your client to remove all the watermarks from sponsor vids?

Designer, prostitute, writer, programmer, employee... what's the difference?

Do you speak Portuguese? Then hit me up for a blog design.

icq 166708909

As was said before really nothing to write home about.

As Altwebdesign said you need to sell yourself.

It is astonishing what some mediocre mainstream design companies charge in Germany, just for basic company sites no frills or extra functionalities.

They target small to medium sized businesses who have no idea what they are doing on the web. Maybe move your efforts towards mainstream businesses, offer them reliable continued support and you might be on to something.

this is a really basic job... you really charged 500$ for that ? God...

I was this way at first. It's easy to take offense to criticism but it isn't always best to fight back. Do your best to create something awesome, then let the client instruct you as they have to live with it. If I make a layout and the client wants changes, big or small, I can now easily get through them, even if I feel they butchered the initial design.

The only time I get annoyed is if the design and functionality get approved, I start cutting everything up and, upon approval, build the site, then they start asking for massive changes that require a redesign/rebuild and expect it for free or super cheap even though it was signed off. I don't mind making changes at all while we are in the design/testing phases but to wait until things are approved, built, and pretty much completed is ridiculous, especially when they have been an active and vocal part of the whole process.

The company I work for charges 125 bucks a page, which isn't bad for mainstream work in my area. We do the general design stuff (design, build, s.e.o, help them setup their email accts on their comp, etc), if they want a blog we will duplicate the layout for wordpress, install wp and set it up, find whatever add-ons they need and charge them for a page, and for around the price of a page we will set up a cms for everything so they don't need to come back for simple changes. We are mainly CF programmers but will conform to using php should you already have a non cf host. The one thing we charge a bit more for is to build shopping carts or database related projects that take a lot more time and effort to complete.

Too expensive? Too Cheap? I have no clue. It works for my bosses company and since they (a web/graphic design studio) don't complain about me doing freelance work from time to time, I could never charge any less.

1) @PussyLover: you're right, but good luck with that
2) Even though that theme is really simple, $500 isn't unfair. It's like $50 an hour x 10 hours
3) the above being said, some people is too desperate that even a regular decent pay per hour is way above their heads
4) I almost fell off my floor laughing reading the remarks about "designers not knowing about traffic" (which, of course, it's true in most cases): As we do marketing research and research every fucking aspect of visuals related to traffic, niche, conversions, etc, I can confirm 99% of people has no fucking clue about it, designer or not. I can count with my hands the number of people that knows shit about conversions, then comes the "let's throw 100,000,000 uniques and see if we can get a bird" people, and then those trying to do teh same... with 100 uniques.
5) the above being said, designers are supposed to... DESIGN. Nothing else. If you don't know your business area, how do you expect someone out of that area to know it?
6) Both items above being said, do you expect a designer to design your site, give you valuable marketing tips (or even full strategic campaigns), make you sales and then you won't even pay $50 an hour? :1orglaugh Sorry, in real world any marketing expert charges maaaaany times that amount and doesn't need to design anything. Furthermore, you'd need to PAY a design company on top
7) For anyone thinking what I said above is not true, I proved myself right many many times with 3rd party data (do a search), while I never saw one of those magic programs converting at 1:xxx converting less than 1:5000 the last years (not my traffic, of course, so I don't give a fuck)
8) so back to the OP, he is right. And yes, there are reasons why those programs converting 1:5000 or 1:10000 or 1:20000 convert that way. And one of those reasons is trying to pay peanuts for one of the most important sides of their business: branding and image. But hey, the whole western culture is wrong, nobody gives a fuck about that! :1orglaugh

Design only matter on sites where you sell something,freesites are just a station to final product.

I would not pay $500 for such a simple "design"...

Harvey... no one asked for secrets, truths and common sense...

:pimp

Welcome to the world of content production.

A Dutch auction has been the norm for shooters for years.

This is the way it goes most of the time.

SponsorHow much for solo girl scene exclusive?

Shooter Well it depends, what are you looking for?

Sponsor Just a normal scene, what's your best price?

Shooter A normal scene can mean anything, but prices start at $500

Sponsor I have a guy in Russia who shoots for half that price.

Shooter Well keep buying from him.

Sponsor His stuff is crap and I like what you do.

Shooter That's why we charge more.

Sponsor If you can do me the same price I have a lot of work to give you.

Shooter Give me 50 scenes money up front and we can do it for $400

Sponsor Will only give you 5 scenes at a time.

Shooter Good bye. Stick with the Russian guy. <I go offline>

Now can you see why we never chased this market?

Then people complain sites don't convert or retain and need 100s or 1,000s of hits to get a sale.

I don't do it anymore :winkwink:

by the way, I was thinking about this: just a couple days ago I was thinking "damn, how I wish to get some DESIGN ONLY work... " . Seriously. I love to design, that's why I'm doing it even though I studied something else (related, but not exact). Now, taking a look at our last 10 projects:

- Carma skinning and customization
- NATS skinning and customization
- Tour design (phewww!) and Elevated-X integration + customization
- Flash video player skinning
- Flash video player customization
- Media delivery PHP script
- XHTML conversion of existing tour
- Marketing strategy + design (yipeee!) + custom social media site and community
- Tour design (ecstatic!) with custom PHP coding
- Set of custom join pages with NATS integration
- Custom WP CMS
- Custom WP CMS + community + billers integration + media delivery integration

Of course I won't complain of having work, but I was wondering how a designer can survive nowadays with just design skills. And let alone trying to charge custom coding on top, most people considers that a given. What I mean is that I had a pretty decent skill set when I started, and with that skill set, I'd get like 1 task every 2-3 months.

So I had to go back to build an office again, hire people, pay them, pay more taxes and so on, and I don't think we'd last long with adult only, so I understand when designers go desperate and do work for beans.

Now, think about this: in order to work for beans, the only way a designer can make a living is to do lots of work, so he/she will make out in the quantity.. Hence, the client will get whatever takes the designer less time. It's not uncommon that the client will need to pay TWICE (once for the "great cheap opportunity" and once for the real work), I know that because around 25/30% of our workload is to solve "cheap ass" fuck ups.

But really: can you complain about that? People needs to eat, if you pay $50 for a custom WP theme, you may expect $50 quality (at best).

And don't come with the "Filipino price" until you show me 1 (one) site designed by a Filipino designer/company that converts at least barely decent .

Another thing: due to this situation, some designers with nose for business and a knack for PR decided to outsource work (mostly coding but design as well) and make it pass as their own. Thus, you can see people paying outrageous prices for work that the designer/coder does for 20-30 or 50% of the price. And that affects the business as well, because people is paying for just PR, then they get burned, then they go to the "$50 guy". After all, they'll get the same for a fraction of the price, right? Or even worse, clients go to non-outsourcing design firms looking to have everything fixed and they don't want to pay the full price again.. because they paid before! Even though what they paid doesn't work! I'm not saying all the companies that outsource are like this, just giving an example on real situations we face on a weekly basis with a few of these companies

so yeah, it's a really fucked up situation for designers (and content providers, and coders, and....)

in this biz, many of us design prostitutes.

have a great evening.

Guys, this is not my best work. It is only the last work. I agree it is pretty simple, but simple doesn't mean easy.

I work as a webmaster, web designer and internet marketer since 2007 from my home office.

I know marketing. I know usability and the difference between text and images. I know SEO.

All my websites that have images as text are using the "image replacement" method. If you see the source code you will understand.

I have some very popular Brazilian websites.

One thing I learned: less is more.

The content is king, but you need to have an UNIQUE design, otherwise you are just one more between millions.

The best blogs, in my opinion, are elegant and simple:

www.smashingmagazine.com
www.incomediary.com

I have a fair price for every kind of work I do.
If someone liked my work and want my services, have to pay what I'm charging or go away.

I am the person that put the price in my work, not the others.

Don't let your possible client set your own price. You know your value.

The world is big. Someone will like our work and will agree with our fees. They will be happy because we just helped them.

______________

@harvey - You think just like me!

We need to learn more in order to survive. All job offers, even full time offers are asking for a set of skills that includes design, programming, coding, marketing, etc. They want one people to do everything.

It is funny, but I never saw a job offer for doctors saying that they need to be a dentist too.

This happens only on the internet. The fool people think that an "internet guy" must understand everything about the internet, from IT to networks, from design to code.

______________

What I think:

CHARGE MORE OR GET OUT OF THE ONLINE WORLD.
DON'T FUCK WITH THE SCENARIO EVEN MORE.

BY THE WAY, BURGUER KING IS HIRING :-)

I'm left thinking you believe being a prostitute is a bad thing?

I notice with a lot of designers. when you try to get changes made because they didnt follow your instructions they just mess things up worse. Its very tough to find a designer that knows how to make the site properly, take instructions, and not disappear.

IF you are a designer and you're designing porn sites... then you ARE a prostitute. A cheap one.

I'm not prostitute, I'm shameless whore. I don't care what you think / not you in person, just an expression/ - I care only to make the client happy, to get his money and to make sure he/she will come back and to bring his friends for another web design orgy.
No offence, but designer who talks too much about quality is nothing more than an elite escort girl. Escort girls are expensive, but they are whores too.
As you said - offer the people something more, something you're confident enough and then start collecting the goods.

A prostitute who can do contractions with her vagina and thus to make the client cum, without making thrusts. That sounds unique, right? The same is with designing. So designer or not - if you're taking money for the things you do, you're not better than a prostitute.
The other word for that job is "artisan" - after all the designers work with their imagination and senses (usability and other stuff came in addition to them). So it comes something like artisan whore...
Think positive - being whore is the most ancient profession.

Damn. I need a drink.

Oh shit.. when harvey entered the thread.... this thread is over. :)
If I could afford harveys talent, it wouldn't need to look for another designer ever.

Quality stuff, nothing but respect.

design threads on gfy... lulz

I have nothing against prostitutes, porn stars or whatever, and I do not judge people.

I'm not better than anyone.

The thing is that we all like and need money. For me when the subject is money, more is always better.

Let's say that we all are prostitutes. I prefer to be a high-class escort than a road bitch that fucks with truck drivers for pennies.

The choice is up to every one of us, designers or prostitutes.

Nothing is "unlearnable." If we need to learn more in order to charge more, so we learn.

There always a choice, but people prefer to charge less than work hard to improve their skills because It's the easiest way.

I hope you guys have understood my point here.

you suck. thread closed.

MM is back.. or never left. Either way, outstanding. :thumbsup

Buddy, I have a point of view about a subject. I have personality to show my opinion, and I have arguments to share.

What do you have?

All I see until now is nothing.

All you do is trying to put people down. Sorry, this doesn't work with me.

I respect people. You don't.

Grow up.

Let's be honest here.

If you're a great designer, programmer, photographer you're not working in porn. Online or offline. The money is in other fields.

I'm sorry but if you are charging $500 for that design or any free site or blog design then feel lucky cause that work you showed was a $50 job..

I've paid $750 for paysite designs and a grand for other work so I'm not a cheapskate but I'm sorry your work you have shown or examples of other blogs you like are not worth $500.. Like someone said blogs don't need to be custom designed to make them money.. a free template could make them more than a $200 designed blog cause it's about the content and the paysite tours that they are linking..

If you want to make $500 for your work maybe you should look into doing more paysites cause I have NEVER seen a blog design I would be willing to pay $500 for unless they were going to blog for me too for 3 mos

The OP's so called design certainly shows that he has no clue when it comes to getting conversions. A pretty design, it's not even really that, isn't what cuts it.

Edit. I reckon it's a $25 - $30 design.

Meta,

take it easy fella.

Surely once you aspired to greater heights but lacked the skill.

I myself definitely don't consider the one example listed anywhere close to $500, but this is what he wanted, input.

I can see some potential, but it definitely needs to get cleaner.

What say you list some more examples of your work for us to judge.

thanx a lot, but my services are VERY affordable :)

and what about those who work in adult and mainstream? how would we fit in your little box of pre-molded concepts?

and what about the designers working in mainstream that charge 10 bucks a design? How amazing are they?

We're on the verge of launching some ground breaking multi media script that doesn't exist in adult or mainstream and we're launching it for both markets, with adult as focus. Then where does that place us?

Between our mainstream clients there are political parties, sports personalities and even 2 national governments... and believe me, I still didn't find the gold rush and have to work every day. But... shouldn't I be mega-rich by now?

So, I've never claimed to be the best at anything, as a matter of fact I admitted this need to do and know about everything has taken its toll, but I'm sure there's a lot of talented people in this industry, and I know of many who changed to mainstream. And many of us are still here for different reasons, one of them being: it's where the money is!

I don't know, maybe YOU are the one with no talent and think everyone else is like you, while others are making the money that ACCORDING TO YOU doesn't exist in this business :helpme

but hey, you know it all, so why bother in explaining you things that are pretty obvious to most mortals? :)

This is exactly why i left the corporate design world and moved into adult, i got sick and tired of 'my cousin's sisters nieces boyfriends mate has just completed a web design course, he said he can do it for £150'

I couldn't scrap around any longer for shitty £500 jobs when we were delivering award winning material, it was just a natural progression.

My 2cents? Seriously...

If I want a banner or a DVD box cover or something designed for me, I personally have the idea in my mind, for what I want it to look like.

I *could* do it myself, but I want a professional finish to it...

So for me, its important that the designer I choose can take what is in my minds eye, and realize it for me to the nearest detail...

I am not really looking for input from the designer - I already know what I want.... So how can I explain it?

I usually do scribbles on paper and scan them in and send them over. Provided the guy can give me what I want, to MY specs... I dont care about price...

Anyway, I have found 'my guy' who can do this, and will continue to use him, whenever I want my ideas put on the screen...

Who is he? THIS GUY..

Thanks Craig :thumbsup

this is press 75s side blog theme dressed up a little with different colors etc http://www.press75.com/themes/side-blog-theme-demo/
now carry on thread closed....

A) I'm not your buddy
B) you're not a designer
C) I only respect people who deserve it

walk into any sports GM office as an amateur player and talk to him like you know how to run his business.

You see you're the amateur I'm the GM. You respect me like you said. that is the first step in understanding your place. :2 cents:

I forgot to tell you that I love the name of this board! Go Fuck Yourself.