Is the US Declaration of Independence illegal?
 

In Philadelphia, American and British lawyers have debated the legality of America's founding documents.

On Tuesday night, while Republican candidates in Nevada were debating such American issues as nuclear waste disposal and the immigration status of Mitt Romney's gardener, American and British lawyers in Philadelphia were taking on a far more fundamental topic.

Namely, just what did Thomas Jefferson think he was doing?

Some background: during the hot and sweltering summer of 1776, members of the second Continental Congress travelled to Philadelphia to discuss their frustration with royal rule.

By 4 July, America's founding fathers approved a simple document penned by Jefferson that enumerated their grievances and announced themselves a sovereign nation.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15345511

The Declaration of Independence is just that, a declaration. What difference does it make it it's legal or not?

I'm sure that in the eyes of the Brits it was illegal.

I know I'm in the minority here but are there more pressing things these lawyers can do than bicker about the past?

Victory made it legal

its good news.

it could be we (the brits) may still run the usa.

so we want it back.

put it this way, you lot messed it up once you took it over.

so if we get it back we can fix everything.

I like your reasoning. I'm sure everyone in the US will happily turn over the reigns to the Queen without much fuss. Good luck announcing to Alaskans, Texans and idiots from Kentucky and so on, that they have a new Queen. You'll figure it out though because you are super smart!


Thank God we stopped the Nazi's from bombing you into oblivion so you'd have that chance to show the worlds largest economy how to "do it right".

Kill yourself:2 cents:

The Declaration of Independence was just that - a declaration. Technically, you could look at the founding fathers as terrorists. They went up against their government.

However, if the UK wants their land back they are welcome to come and get it. Just keep in mind there is a huge difference between the US and Argentina.

Thats not terrorism, its treason. Huge difference.

:2 cents:

Did the lawyers look to see if it was legal to claim land that was already taken well before the British arrived?

The British airforce did that (winning the battle of britain) before the US had even entered the war.

LOL! EXACTLY! This is so funny. EVERY country in the world now in existence was created by one group of people conquering another. In the end, the ones who won the fight, created the country.




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We kicked their ass back to England. Nuff' said.

Britain was on its knees without support, supplies and oil, all before the US had entered the war as well.

i.e. before you entered the war you were a shop keeper charging extorniate prices, it was the bravery of british (and some other country's) pilots that "stopped the Nazi's from bombing the UK into oblivion".

So true... the claim they're making is just laughable. Even in the same time-period, it wasn't the Brits that discovered or colonized it. If anything, about that period of time like 5 or 6 different countries claimed ownership of territories. That's if we ignore the fact that we had cities setup in America, some 500-1000 years before the British claimed anything.

They got beat down for trying to take over and profit, from something they didn't actually own.... which appears to be a factor the lawyers ignore.

My guess is the real issue is they're pissed off about being stuck with Canada... :thumbsup

I don't disagree with that and there is really nothing to be gained or learned by a silly point/counterpoint about undeniable or indisputable facts. I was commenting more on the trademark stupidity of DVDtimes. London sacrificed a lot. Lot of people were brave. Lot of people died. Lot of innocent people were killed. Defeating the Nazi's involved the bravery and sacrifice of a lot of people... etc... etc. You can't say that Britain had them beat. US can't say that it was the primary cause of their defeat.

And "before we entered the war" - we were giving what we had to give. The cost of that "extortion" as you'd like to put it was the loss of 1:26 merchant marine sailors trying to supply Britain and a loss of over 30 ships per week and over 1000 ships sank in 1942 alone, trying to supply Britain to aid their efforts.

So you should keep a little perspective on sacrifice and bravery, just as much as I should.
:2 cents:

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:thumbsup


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:thumbsup

Lets just settle this like gentlemen, we'll send over all the texans with guns we have , I mean just the civilians, and wipe out your population. We'll tell the Texans they get to keep what they want. Don't offer them any fish and chips, they like BBQ.

The whole thing is mute considering the Treaty of Paris in 1783

If I had two wishes, one would definitely go towards bringing Thomas Jefferson back to life and fix this mess we're in.

"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation then by deflation, the banks and the corporations will grow up around them, will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."

"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies."

"I wish it were possible to obtain a single amendment to our constitution - taking from the federal government their power of borrowing."

-Thomas Jefferson

Yep. If the south had won the Civil War secession would have been legal. Sometimes I wonder if it wouldn't have been better if they had. Then the rest of the normal people in the US wouldn't have to deal with those idiots.

Huge difference or a fine line?

When the "rebels" in Libya started fighting their government, was it treason or terrorism? Was breaking into a ship and tossing over crates of tea terrorism, treason, or just a simple criminal act?

Semantics and philosophy aside, both words have always had definitions. You can look them up if you're still unclear.

independance is a fact, not a declaration

Of course it was "illegal", just like every other secession that ever took place in history probably violated some type of basic constitutional law of the original union. That's why armies exist and why wars are fought. At the end of the day what defines a nation's borders is how well the people behind it can defend it and whether or not other nations are willing to recognize it. Technically the Brits don't have to recognize the US if they didn't want to, and if they wanted to go to war they are free to try, but obviously that's not going to be a smart move. In fact we have examples like Kosovo today where some nations recognize it, and some don't, despite attempts of secession from Serbia violating the country's laws.

But really who gives a shit? At the end of the day what happened was a good thing as it laid down the framework of what became the greatest nation ever and an example for other nations to follow. The big question here is why and how Americans slowly but surely gave up everything their forefathers fought for? The America now is not even a shell of its former self. "Just what did Thomas Jefferson think he was doing?" the writer asks in the actual link to the article... well all I know is if the "leaders" of the nation after him thought more like him I'm sure we wouldn't be seeing the types of problems we're seeing today.

I love how you use the word 'we' like you would somehow be involved in anything more complicated than digging a hole :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

but could your average texan find europe on the map let alone the UK?

one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist so both, huge difference and a fine line :winkwink:

troll mode: on

So israel is legal just because they are stronger.

troll mode: off

might makes right

Sure, as long as you win, everything is ok

http://roguefestival.com/rogue07/upl...de1-782290.jpg

Might made right? :helpme

Au contraire, its IDEALS made it legal. :)

Who stopped the Nazis? Are you Russian? If not you shouldn't be thanking God, you should thank the Russians that THEY stopped the Nazis. America's claim to fame in WWII was the world largest terrorist attacks, the two nuclear weapons dropped to terrorize Japan and its people (as well as kill several hundred thousand of them) into surrendering the war.

This for the most part.

Your police don't even have guns.

We are gangstas.

Try us.

You're right. I forget Stalins contribution of forcing unarmed kids to charge German machine gun positions until they ran out of bullets. I'm so surpsrised that tactic wasn't widely adopted given it's effectiveness at forcing the enemy to fatigue their trigger fingers.

Russia... the only nation on earth that celebrates the death of 10's of millions of its own people as "Victory Day" :(

that has been the running theme for every civilization out there

yet they all fall