Ever taken someone to small claims court before?
 

I haven't, but I'm seriously thinking about doing so.

If you have, tell me how the process was for you, what it was about, and how you did. I'm interested.


My issue, well, it's really small really. In a nutshell I paid a lawn service to treat and care for my lawn, both front and back, for the past season. At the end of it all I was left with a back yard full of weeds. I recently phoned the company, talked directly to the owner as a matter of fact, who basically told me "tough shit" in no uncertain terms. I was asking if there was something a little extra he could do for next year, both to remedy the situation but also to serve as a small token of compensation for them having failed this year. He flat-out refused and the call got pretty ugly. I kept an even tone with him but he went off on me and told me I was calling too late, and basically tried turning the whole thing around to put the blame on me.

To be honest I would have settled for him throwing in one extra treatment next year and his personal assurance that my weed situation would be remedied. Instead he pulled the defensive stubborn condescending prick act on me. Of course many here know that that doesn't fly with me here, and I can assure you it certainly doesn't fly with me in my offline life.

The money involved is inconsequential. If I do take this further it will be purely about the principle, and about taking an obvious self-important prick to task and make him answer for his lousy attitude and his comlete lack of customer service skills. Frankly I was floored by his handling of the issue. Being a business owner myself for the better part of 25 years myself it struck me as inconcievable.


Anyway if you've had experience with this by all means share the details. I'd really like some input on what the whole process was like.

Sounds like he completed the service and you weren't happy with the results. Did he guarantee anything the first go round?

I'm not so sure you'd get all that far with a small claims case.

I would definitely be interested in hearing how you make out.

Yes I took someone to small claims before, here in the US. It was someone that didn't pay me, I had the paperwork including copies of all the faxes I sent him asking for payment and his ignoring the issue.

The guy didn't show up, I won the case. Had to pay a debt collector 30% and it took a few more months to get the money, but I did.

In your case, it isn't quite cut and dry, so no idea what a judge would do. Do you have any sort of documentation of a work guarantee? If so, that plus pics of your yard would work.

what you are describing is normal response for everything ive had a problem with

Yeah, I don't really think you have a very good case. Suing a lawn service because you ended up with some weeds? Ehhhhh, That's questionable.

My advice: Just take your business else ware and move on with your life.

Okay a few more details.... Yes his service does claim a guarantee. Funny you should use his almost exact words here but he does say he completed the service. The problem with that is that I noticed my back yard weed problem wasn't being addressed back in July, so I called them then. The girl that was working there told me I was down as a "front yard only", which I informed her was incorrect. She cheerfully corrected the error and scheduled a separate spraying for following week. I'm fairly certain that that spraying was done, as there was evidence that someone from the company had been there (their sign was placed on my back lawn).

There was supposed to be one final treatment (treatment #3) though, both front and back. The owner says it was done on Aug. 25th. However there was none of the usual signs that they'd been here to do it, no note left in the mailbox, no sign placed, etc. So I was unaware that it was done, so I waited to see if they'd come in Sept, then got busy and kind of forgot about it. Then I called them the other day because I recieved a flyer from them in the mail asking me to pre-order for next year and it reminded me that I have to call and ask them if that 3rd spraying was ever done, and if so then why is my yard still full of weeds?

The issue is simple... they say their service removes weeds from your lawn and promotes "healthy lush new growth" etc. My back yard never got treated for half the season due to their mistake, my back yard is chock full of weeds after I paid for a full season of treatments, and now the owner has mouthed off and talked down to me over the phone.

In short their guaranteed results service failed, I paid for something that didn't deliver, and I'm left with a yard full of weeds. Call me crazy but I'm of the mind that I actually would have a case.

I have gone to small claims a couple times and won, because I had solid evidence that the other party clearly owed me the money.

Like potter said, you probably won't have a lot of luck. I don't know about the laws there but here you can't use pesticides anymore, so weeds will take over eventually, and there's no one to blame

They send out their flyers aggressively 3 or 4 times every year, mostly in early spring, so yes I do have all sorts of copies of the results they claim. And in fact I've used their service before and believe me when they've been around your yard and done a proper application you very much know inside of a week that they've been there, because the weeds start dying like crazy.

But not this time.

My back yard was obviously missed for half the season, and what they did do in August was too little too late.


@ Potter -- Hey, if let's say for example you paid a company up front to paint your house and a few months later their paint started flaking and you were left with a dissatisfactory job are some of you saying you wouldn't have a case? Or if you paid a company up front in full to send one of their people around every so often to clean your house, and a few months later you realize your place is full of dust and mold you'd be just okay with that? And if the company owner basically told you "tough shit" when you called to complain you'd be fine with that and just move on?

Guys, they failed in the job they were paid to do regardless of if they performed the service or not, the back yard is still rife with weeds.

Honestly all the owner had to say was "Well that's not right, I'm sorry it happened. I can't give you a further discount than we're currently offering but how about we throw in an extra treatment next year and get on the problem as early as possible, and you have my word it will be taken care of."

That would have been fine with me, and I'd have come away thinking that the guy was a pretty good sort who was worth continuing to do business with.


I will of course be blogging on my local sites about his company and the details of this issue. It may not hit his bottom line anytime soon, but it WILL eventually hit the first page of Google results whenever anyone does a search of his company. (yes, I'm that good)

Am I being too malicious? lol


No worries, I definitely will be taking my business elsewhere as I refuse to do business with known pricks, always have. As for getting on with life, already done. Doesn't preclude me from taking this guy to task though.

Sounds like you have a decent case. I've never tried with something like this. I've been owed money a couple of times when local businesses stiffed me for goods/services. Both times they paid up immediately when they were served with the complaint and summons.

The satisfaction you get from dragging the guy to court should be worth your minor inconvenience. He could have easily saved a customer by fixing your shit or even giving you an extra treatment as you say, he chose the path of stupid and deserves whatever you do to him.

Neither.

I said nothing about cutting of lawn. It was about weed control, not mowing.

Yes and yes, but it's not quite that simple. As I said, my back yard was neglected for half the season, only in August did they correct the mistake and start treating the back, and by then it was obviously too late. They now refuse to take responsibility for that error in any way and I'm left with a yard full of weeds.

The crux is the guy is being an asshole when he should be putting forth good customer service and PR. Making this right with me would have been a good move. Telling me "tough shit" when his service has clearly not delivered promised results.... very bad move.


Honestly I wasn't trying to engage the armchair lawyer set on this board to tell me whether or not I had a case. I was hoping that several here would have experiences with small claims court and be willing to share some details about those experiences, as in what their case was regarding, what they had to go through by way of the process, did they win or lose and if so why, etc.

If anyone else has taken someone to task this way by all means please speak up. Or type up, you know what I mean. :D

This guy's page has 10 pretty good points for going the small claims route.

Looks like the process where I am is pretty standard... http://www.manitobacourts.mb.ca/faq/...ll_claims.html

Looks as though if I were to sue the guy for half the season's fee, the court costs are going to be equal to or possibly a bit more than what I'd be suing him for, ha ha. Well it isn't about the money as I said, it's more about the principle of the matter. I doubt the court would order him to fix my yard, but they will award (or deny) a monetary judgement, as someone already said.

I'm sure the most I could sue for in this case would be roughly around $65. I hope (assuming I go ahead with it) that I can get some amusement and enjoyment out of the experience because about money it ain't.

Hey, I once refused to pay a speeding ticket back in my younger years and instead opted for community service, which ended up being me doing about 12 hours of raking leaves over at a nearby church for two days alongside a crew of cons. The head groundskeeper over there came to me at the end to sign my sheet and told me in all the years he'd been doing this (having cons and ticket welchers work) he'd never seen anyone rake so many bags of leaves as I did. I went away feeling somewhat proud, but I've always tried to do my best no matter how small or what other people would think is "beneath them" the job is. Fact is I got some fresh air and exercise, and had a blast shooting the shit with those cons, finding out their stories, etc.


Researching more small claims info....

I was taken to small claims court by a disgruntled customer in NYC, and in my case the arbitrator was very sympathetic to the customer even though I had all of my paperwork in good order. It was basically my word against theirs and the arbitrator agreed with them. I think in general small claims courts are sympathetic towards the consumer. :2 cents:

Don't be a fool. You aren't going to teach him anything all you're going to do is waste your time over $65. He's not going to all of a sudden be a nicer person or better businessman. What you're essentially saying is that you value your time so little that you'll happily waste it on a futile effort over $65.

Just write it off as a bad business relationship and move on.

QFT! :thumbsup

How much money we talking here? A few hundred bucks at the most?

My Attorney gave me some good advice years ago when it came to suing, she said pick your battles. Even though you may be in the right is it worth the time and energy? Only you can answer that.

I just did an e-Filing as a matter of fact.

:2 cents: make a website if you're real mad

http://i.imgur.com/YUKm9.png

Good advice and I will certainly weigh it in with all other considerations. However as I said it's not about the money, it's about the principle of the matter. I don't expect to transform the asshole into a nice guy over it.

And Warchild, I don't really look at it as a question of valuing my time. Fact is I can afford to burn a day here or there in idle pursuits. If I couldn't I'd be a pretty piss poor excuse for a webmaster, no? Hell, I once took 5 months off to relax, sluff off, and play computer games while I lived off rebills. I think I can handle a day in court.

You're playing the cards pretty close to the chest as usual. Any further details you can share?

Have you ever done anything like this in the past? If so, do tell.

I am suing the owner(s) of the dog that attacked Buddy.

To be honest, I do not recall if I have ever gone to small claims court on my own or not. I know I did the work for a girlfriend back in the early 90's. I seem to recall she won a judgment, but I do not recall if she ever collected or if the defendant appealed.

Ah yes, I remember the thread. Good luck with that, and I sincerely mean that. I look forward to (hopefully) reading about the outcome.

I've done it plenty. It is much more informal. You don't need a lawyer if you know how to present your case and the judge will help you along with the rules.

I used to own a property management company and spent a few days a month in court.

Under a normal circumstance I would say weeds are part of having a gardener. But your gardener offered a service in which the weeds would be taken care of... So they will lose. Just take photos of your backyard weeds with portions of landmarks in the photos like a corner of the house that is unmistakably yours and not just random photos from Google images.

I took a landlord to court for my full security deposit on a house I was renting. I paid $7,000 for the deposit and he figured I only needed about $6,500 back. I asked why and he said he needed to paint, shampoo the carpets, hire a cleaner, etc...

The judge said all of those items are normally expected by any home owner that lived there as long as I did. I showed that the carpet was normal wear and tear, the paint on the walls was perfect like it was when I moved in and had pictures of vents, etc, with me so the judge could see no house cleaner was needed.

He again argued that he shouldn't have to pay for the shampooing of the carpets and the judge again sided with me saying I had lived there seven years and that is just normal wear and tear. So since he was making a profit from me living there he should consider it overhead.

Got my $500 check in the mail a week later.

Yes...I have sued in small claims court multiple times. I have always won a judgement...but have only had the judgement satisfied one time and that is because the person voluntarily abided by the judgement order.

Winning is not that difficult if you have your ducks in a row...but collecting is an entirely different matter. The court does little to nothing to enforce a judgement...there are additional legal hoops to jump through which will cost you additional monies and time.

Most if not all small claims court will not allow an attorney to represent you in court...which does not mean that one cannot consult with an attorney to prepare for court.

I sued once in small claims court. It never went to court. I filed the papers and within a few days they agreed to pay the amount they owed me out of court plus the filing fees/court costs so I never actually had to go in front of the judge and put on my case.

I had good evidence. This was sponsor program from several years ago that I sent traffic to, but never paid me. They owed me about $275 dollars. The only reason I sued them is they were from my same city. I can't even remember the name of the company it was one that popped up, was around for 6-9 months then disappeared. There were a ton of those back in 2000-2005. Anyway. They didn't pay me, but kept promising to pay and had a million excuses. Eventually, after several emails and months worth of going back and forth I threatened to sue them. They told me to bring it on that I had no case because I was going to get paid soon.

Had we gone to court I had the emails with the promises and the screenshots showing what I was owed so I feel like I would have likely won and obviously so did they.

It's not that way in Maryland for sure.

I'd say 80% of the cases were creditors trying to get judgments against debtors. The average just from keeping my ears open was about $1,000 ... the plaintiffs (and defendants for that matter) were rarely if ever there... just the plaintiffs lawyer saying why the judgment should be grated.

Unless things are different when it's a creditor/debtor case?

I read somewhere that if the amount in question is less than $38,000 you should forget about it.

.

In Baltimore City I learned that very rarely did the landlord win. However, my management fee was paid to me so I'd take care of such things.

I had one tenant with a long list of violations who was also behind on her rent. The shit that she did and got away with ... one of those people where if she wasn't a junkie and applied herself, she'd probably be someone in life.

That ho had the nerve to threaten my life on the courthouse steps after she had won YET again.

I prevailed in the end though ... just took a few tries and different judges.

I've been to small claims court a few times. You have to be careful as the judges like to do the solomon thing and split the difference. It's informal so you need to have whatever it will take to convince the judge of your side of things, photos, contract, checks, etc. There is some satisfaction in fucking with the other party because they have to show up or default and it tends to ruin their day. So there's that.

Dude, come on now. What you're talking about = $80ish lawn service. What you're trying to compare it to = $3,000 paint service. I don't think so.

If you want to compare it, compare it to something closer - like perhaps a car detail from the super wash place across from my house. If that happened (bad experience / poor service) and the business owner said "tough shit".

I'd: 1.) Take my business else ware and move on with my life. 2.) Possibly go to my bank and run a charge back.

And I might not even try to do the charge back. You still got the lawn service, they didn't screw you completely. It's just one part of their service wasn't any good. So what?

Let's say you do take it to court. How much did you pay? $60? $100? What percentage of that service is the weed control? 15%? Maybe even 25%? You're going to waste a day of your life to sue some dude for 25% of $100?

Meh. My days are more important than that to me.

You can't sue for the time (your lost time in wages) that it takes to go to court. You can sue for the payment you gave him and the payment it will take to fix the problem. So if you paid him $150 for the season claim that it will cost tripple that from a reputable company so sue for $150 + $450 for a smooth $600.

He likely won't show and you win.

I would take the beaners advice. After all, when it comes to lawn service they know what's up. :thumbsup

We have taken 3 people to smalls claims this year. We won all 3. Only one of them which was the local council paid up. The other two basically just laugh at us as even though they have assets we cant touch them.

We were once taken to Small Claims Court in San Diego and lost... then we appealed it... then the Judge asked enough questions to realize that the plaintiff was not only in the wrong but probably in violation of federal tax laws too. It was so bad the Judge actually told the guy, "Mr Aptaker, I think you should not open your mouth again to say anything else that might further incriminate you."

Just like every other court... there is no such thing as a guaranteed win. Say your neighbor has a ton of dandelions in his yard - well you will be impacted by that but it would not be his fault since he doesn't do the neighbors yard... and you would have just wasted your time, money, etc. Unfortunately, my advice is live and learn, and use whatever online resources are available to put out the word that you think his service sucked because that will probably hurt more in the long run and cost less to do.

That's actually a good point. Several in this thread have been focusing on the cost of the service paid for only, which as I said is quite inconsequential. I paid this company a discounted rate which amounted to around $125. Since it is only my back yard that wasn't addressed properly the amount in contention would be roughly half that.

But adding in the cost of fixing their mistake, that changes the numbers significantly. Still inconsequential amounts, but itis something to consider. As I said, the guy strikes me as an asshole of supreme magnitude, one who probably has gotten used to talking to clients this way because he can get away with it, probably due to it usually being about such small amounts of money that most people don't think it's worth calling him to the carpet over.

I'm just not most people.

not worth it. winning is easy, collecting is a hassle

There are some definite nuggets of wisdom here so far. Thanks.


TheKing, ruff, Barry, epitome, kane, lucy, vrock... thanks to you as well for your input. I will take it all into consideration when deciding whether or not to have a go at this guy.