What do you guys think about OWS?
 

I'm all about liberating government, legislation and lobbyist kickbacks from financial institutions, etc. But what really jacks me up is the whole rallying against the 1%. 13% of the 1% are financial people, but the remaining 87% are doctors, lawyers, and small business entrepreneurs. These are restaurant owners, laundromat owners, franchise owners, etc.

I think all of us aspire to be part of that 1% who make more than $335k / year, and doing so does not imply that you run your business in anything less than above-the-board. It doesn't mean you take government handouts that others are not receiving. It does not imply you engage in government cronyism. It doesn't imply you lobby for legislation that prohibits competition, etc.

Their big kick on being anti-capitalism is pretty short-sighted. The radiologist and oncologist, and cardiologist that spent 12 years going through school is well deserved to be in the 1% and he wishes no ill will on your ability to succeed. He was handed no free ticket to getting through school and scoring well on tests, and doing the work he needed to do to get to where they wanted to be.

The lawyer who spent 6 years in school to specialize in torts may have a love for money but has nothing to do with why you aren't doing well yourself. Just because he makes $1m a year or more doesn't make him "greedy". It makes him motivated.

The guy who owns 4 Subway Sandwich shops who makes $500k a year isn't "keeping you down" because you make $8 an hour making sandwiches. The people who work for him work for the highest wage they can negotiate, and he hires the people who work for the lowest wage he can negotiate. That's how business has always worked. Doesn't make him evil for hiring people who agree to do the job he needs done.

I see a lot of people calling for limits on what people can make. I see a lot of people calling for the end of capitalism entirely. What good do people think will come out of this? Business owners are motivated to create, to offer services that serve a need, and to create jobs because of the ability to capitalize off the opportunity. They take calculated risks, they infuse money into the economy. Many doctors push themselves through school to enjoy the fruits of their labor.

Now the so-called 99% are pissed off they took out mortgages they couldn't pay for, and because they collectively stopped paying all together, the entire economy collapsed. Now they're upset, and want to point fingers. They say it's the bank's fault, etc.

Well, the issue is complicated. A lot of people are involved, and the 99% say the banks took advantage of their naivete of banking and financial savvy. I think the 99% need to look in the mirror and think long and hard about what they could have done differently.

Their frustrations seem to be aimed at anyone that's relatively successful. Is that fair? There's a lot of people in the 1%. How about the guy who owns all the 7-11's in your neighborhood? Think that guy has anything to do with your problems? They think capitalism as a whole is the issue.

The bottom line is that if you take 100 people in society, 1 person is likely to be driven to achieve far greater education, and have far greater aspirations than the remaining 99%. His idea of a good time is studying business, creating PowerPoint presentations, spending long hours in school, creating flowcharts and diagrams, and developing business plans. That 1% wasn't given money, he was given brains. There wasn't anything inherited. It's just the odds of living in society that 1/100 will go out and exceed all expectations, and as a result he'll live a really awesome life. He'll make a ton of money, and will impress every employer he ever meets. For him, the sky is the limit.

For that person, should we take that inherent advantage away? Should we take away his motivation? A lot of these occupiers think that this kind of person is the evil we have in society...

No matter what, there will always be that 1% that will go out and smoke all of us. That's not because of tax advantages, it's not because of government handouts, it's purely because of genetics. Is it wrong for that person to be in the 1%?

http://static.sandiego.com/articlefi.../jerry-575.jpg

http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ls...91cmo1_500.jpg

Love and Peace and Ice Cream... :anon

ADG

My read on this is that - by definition - the OWS people are after that 13% (if that's all it really is) of the one percenters you mentioned. That is to say, they're after the financial shysters.

Moreover, you have to clear way, waaay, waaaaaaay over a mere half mil per annum to join the 1% club in any case.

I stand corrected on that then.

Nonetheless, the real rage - aside from the rantings of a comparative handful of Marxists - is directed at the cocksuckers who took the economy down with their toxic derivatives and other so called "financial products".

I think much of the anger and frustration comes from the fact that the bankers knew this would happen and made money from the collapse, they got bailed out, and showed no responsibility for their actions. TV commercials pushing these loans and giving people the idea that they could afford it, representatives at the banks giving regular people financial advice and having an agenda to loan out as much money as possible, regardless of peoples ability to pay for it in the long run. On top of that, the banks went on with business as usual and used bailout money for bonuses. People aren't raising up against corporations in general. Corporations that produce products and helps the economy grow. That's just a spin some media outlets put on it, to discredit the protesters. It's the greed and lack of responsibility from those who played a big part in causing the financial breakdown that I believe motivates and angers these protesters. As well as the fact that the political system has been bought and paid for by these same corporate money interests. It's corporations who make money from manipulating the system, influencing the political system into making laws that can benefit them instead of the american people that is the problem. Not businesses that actually produce something, and employ hard working americans.
It wouldn't sound ass good if the protesters said "We are the 99.87%". The 99% isn't to be taken literally. That's how I see it at least.

It's worse than that.

The big banks recovered all of the money they lost on bad mortgages by either collecting from insurance claims with AIG and/or from the taxpayers in the form of 1% loans. Loans that they easily repaid from the interest they collected on safe overseas investments. The money they're taking in now from foreclosures is 100% pure profit over and above their initial costs.

It's a great gig for them.

Now, once a sufficient number of new mortgage defaults start to pile up you can bet your bippy that they'll come back to Obama - or Romney - in a couple of years insisting on yet another bailout whereupon the process will repeat itself.

This is what OWS is all about.

ADG

Everyone in our Industry is part of the 99%.... it's not about tax brackets, you could be a billionaire and be part of the 99%.

You are part of the 1% if your multi-billion dollar company setup fraud investments (or such) and then made up new ways to sell them, then did not get into trouble for it, then got a nice fat bailout out for your fraud...errr mistakes, then took a fat bonus on the tax payer dime, then proceeded to do the same damn thing again....

Straight up, anyone here that thinks they are part of the 1% has a serious ego problem.

It's funded by Rockefeller's UN, keep well clear, it's controlled by the Elite and will be used to play out an agenda; just as Brzezinski's Al Qaeda was used in Libya

Hearing voices inside of your head again?

There is no grand WTC imploading type conspiracy going on here.

This is simply a case of rampant greed from the usual Wall Street and too big to fail types.

i refuse to read any of this post

The top 1 percent contributed about 37 percent of the taxes paid in 2009, wnoder what they paid in 2010. I know I paid a pretty good amount by my standards... and I made a lot less the 300+K AGI

Without the 1% life would be a lot worse for the 99%.

No society has been able to get rid of the wealth generators or cut their wealth and maintained or improved the wealth of the rest. Every time it meant bringing down the 1% to a lower level, which usually resulted in the 99% dropping in their wealth.

The problem is far deeper and harder to solve.

That is The West produces too little and imports too much. Look at the fastest growing economies.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...A_Factbook.PNG

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...tes t_year%29

Yes some are low down, but lets look at some selectively.

4 India 11.107
5 Republic of China (Taiwan) 10.823
6 People's Republic of China 10.300
22 Thailand 7.803
31 Brazil 7.490
38 Hong Kong 6.812
48 South Korea 6.110
58 Sweden 5.536
73 Israel 4.606
91 Slovak Republic 4.021
92 Russia 4
93 Japan 3.938
95 Poland 3.817
100 Germany 3.504
116 United States 2.834
117 South Africa 2.784

the world isn't worth more today than it was 10, 20 or 30 years age. The Western countries share of that wealth has gone elsewhere. the solution is how to bring it back?

The financial sector was one of the few ways we had.

I find it hard to believe that only 1% of people in the States make more than 335k a year..I don't know where this stat comes from. Can anyone confirm this?

I don't think anyone has a hate one for hard working entrepreneurs but rather the fact that the average CEO salary is now 335 times the average workers salary. Why is the gap growing at such a huge rate? What is going on there? In 1980 the average CEO salary was 46 times that of the average worker. It seems something has gone very wrong. These people have become 'wealth addicts'. They fear the growing middle class taking them from the billionaires to millionaires so some are doing what they can to put the middle class out of business. There are a number of corporations who are taking government handouts and not even paying taxes. Totally wrong.

:1orglaugh
http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ls...91cmo1_500.jpg

But in all seriousness I believe people are taking the "1%" literally.
It stands for the corrupt few who have influence over the many.
More than money, it's unchecked power.

Quote from OWS Toronto Satire piece:

HAHAHAHAHA

I'll explain that to the voices, cheers :thumbsup

Here's a revealing WHOIS and evidence of support from Rothschild Agent George Soros
http://lalternativaitalia.blogspot.c...ll-street.html

People are sheep. Most don't pay attention to politics, don't vote, and just go about their lives working at their jobs planning vacations and holidays and trying to be happy.

I think this part isn't working out anymore, and people are having a really hard time just working their jobs and paying their bills and trying to live a decent life.

Minimum wage is like $7.25 an hour. It's only a couple bucks more than it was when I was in high school 20 years ago! But try to rent a house in the city I grew up. I paid $700 a month in 97, that same place rents for $2,400 now! Unreal.

Not saying all jobs pay min wage, but a lot do when people are just basic not college educated simple people, those jobs are there. And people are saying that these 99% ers should go work those jobs. You really can't live on those wages, hell even $10 to $15 an hour with two people working trying to buy a car, house, maybe have a kid. And fuck them if someone gets sick and insurance doesn't cover it all. Really, people are having issues in wake of this housing bubble and the health insurance shit etc. THAT is why they are protesting. They didn't come up with this out of nowhere. People are fucking HURTING.

I don't think the anarchists and assholes out there are doing any good, of course. But really this government needs to take note and do something. What, I don't know. But the people are making a lot of noise! Power to the people as they say.

If the US government wants to keep the sheep in place, they're going to have to make life a little easier so these people will back down, go back to work, be able to make a living and BUY SHIT so the economy benefits. But no, the democrats and republicans would rather fight, and the politicians are mostly concerned with their war chests.

Bring it on. If anything let the politicians get a little scared. They should. The politicians and the cops need to be reminded who owns this country, because it isn't them.

At the same time, I bet a lot of these 99% ers probably aren't even registered voters. So hopefully, all of this nonsense will lead to some positive change. Such is the cycle of humanity.

I don't support OWS at all. There is no leadership and no common goal. Without one or the other, all you have a circus. Two months later nothing has changed, the Federal government and the banking industry has barely acknowledged these protests, it's cost local city government millions in law enforcement, clean up, and damages - plus we know lawsuits are gonna start flying soon.

On top of this, the longer this goes on, the more dangerous it will get. A very bad element is creeping in to the protesters, and now we have sexual assaults, muggings, and thefts coming out of these protests - not to mention other criminal acts such as throwing stones, rocks, bottles, an after last night molotov cocktails and shit at police while illegally breaking in and occupying buildings.

I'm sure that 99% of the protesters are peaceful. But the one percent that isn't is going to cause a lot of damage, and make OWS look horrible, and without any kind of leadership and barrier to entry, it will just be a free for all.

On top of this, they are going about this the wrong way. We don't need to be bitching at the banks about this. The banks don't set the laws - Washington does. Our target needs to be the politicians, not the banks.

But here's the best part... The entire goal of American society has been to lift yourself up to become that 1%, that same one 1% OWS is bitching about.

They need no leader, they do have a common goal, all major protests have problems, money buys politicians, your confusion is no reason to stomp on peoples constitutional rights.

I do not know of any Americans with a goal to be a greedy, criminal, fraud's, assholes willing to rip off the entire country for self gain.

People are just pissed off, and they are pissed for many different reasons. I can't fault them for that. Don't think they will get far, but if they want to sleep in tents for the next 6 months, go for it.

Im a Capitalist. The truth is OWSers aren't educated enough to realize they're advocating Communistic and Socialistic ideals. That's why Obama isn't getting behind the OWS movement.

Agreed.

Most of them think making the rich squirm is good. They think they have nothing to lose and the rich can bear all the burden.

Here's the real world.

The banking sector is an integral part of our lives. Where do you think all the money for the loans is coming through?

This sector holds lots of our money, pensions, loans, mortgages, etc. It is also one of the few wealth generating industries left in the West. Bring it down, hurt it or just piss it off. the consequences will be dire.

Yes it needs regulating, yes it needs politicians to stop thinking money grows on trees, public spending can automatically generate wealth. Above all it need the populations of the Western countries. To realise they have to live off what they earn and not expect borrowing to pay the bills.

When the shit hit the fan for Eva and I, we had no debts, we had money in the bank, the credit cards were dormant, charge cards were no problem. We survived something that would put most out on the street.

The shit hit the fan for the US and EU so hard it knocked the fan over. And the debts were the problem.

Simple look at a complicated problem. Essentially the banks own our asses. If you owe them money, they own your balls as well. :winkwink:

And who pays for the campaigns of most of the politicians in Washington who do set the laws? Putting the focus on the banks and the corruption will definitely get the attention from the politicians.

Lets deal with the real situation at hand. Wall Street crooks are just the front men for the real problem...The Oil Companies...US and UK especially....

Check vulturespicnic.org

Check yahoo news...I know its news for sheeple...but sometimes they offer tidbits because they believe and know majority of masses are too stupid to pick up on real flow...

Outlook brightens for US
Price of oil goes up in Singapore...happening as I type this...

American Oil companies supported Nazi's before and during ww2.
Japan's expansionist moves caused big oil to pull US into ww2 and every war since then has somehow had a bottom line of oil...you know this is true...stop lying to yourself.

Think about it for a moment/
Look at the global picture...

Forget the small douchebags in DC...they are pawns licking at the trough...

Open your heads to what is unfolding before it is too late...
Its about
money
power
control.

a corpocracy is not capitalism.

Allowing the largest corporations, and richest individuals to run our government, instead of the people, is NOT democracy - in fact, it's the opposite!

For those of you who say OWS is about Socialism or Communism - you are just fucking ignorant.

So the banks are to blame?

The oil companies do the same. Why do you think Chevy can only make an electric car that goes 35 miles on an electric charge, while upstarts with no money can make cars that go 350 on an electric charge?

It's the politicians that are to blame here. They make the laws that allow these businesses to do what they do.

I think people take that 1% a bit literally. They should change it to 99.9% to get a few more supporters :) The problem isn't the 1% it's the 0.1%

If you are getting your idea of what Occupy is about from the media then you don't know what the Occupy movement is about.

Of course if you go down and interview 10 people, they will all give you different reasons for why they are there... but one simple fact drives them all... Corporate control... people are sick of it. They don't feel like the government represents the people... it represents the corporations and corporate power.

CRONY Capitalism is what they oppose... not capitalism itself.

I wonder if I could get laid with some hot hippie girls...

I like the general idea of why OWS started, but I think its probably more like 0.1% they should be ranting against. I'm talking about mega-rich finacial industry guys that have never created anything, and just basically leech other people's money. These fuckers just MOVE NUMBERS AROUND!. That's all they fucking do. Why should they get millions of dollars for that -- and get rewarded in billions for failing? It makes no sense.

I'm all for banks making money -- they're a business -- and that what a business exists for...

But, they have a gambling problem that's basically fucked it up for everyone else below them. These privileged pricks are playing a rigged game, and need to be put in jail for what they've done.

OWS is a pack of lies from start to finish.

There are alot of good stories on it here:

www.theblaze.com

Here is the link to the specific section:

http://www.theblaze.com/news/occupy-wall-street/

Interesting thoughts here

Is OWS a Strategy to Prevent an Obama Impeachment?
http://theintelhub.com/2011/10/27/is...a-impeachment/

I'm more along the lines that it's to bring about Martial Law and that it is not directly related to the Obama Impeachment attempt :2 cents:

With Soros funding it that's not a great sign

Peter Schiff nails Wall Street Protesters

99% and 1% don't mean anything. Money is a serious thing and it's worth respect, money wants hard working and these hippies want easy government jobs.
Well I go back to make money now.

Where owned by the banks, oil companies, Tobacco, energy, pharma, media, defense, auto, etc. and still nobody was put in jail for the financial mess...so why shouldn't the average Joe be mad.

We do have a lot of low level jobs in this country but people would rather stay on unemployment for 99 weeks then work at a Supermarket for $8 an hour (maybe in a couple years you'll make $15), or waiting for a job in their expertise that no longer exists. A lot of the failure is their own doing in this country and they think they are owed something just because they paid taxes. Now they want a student loan bailout... Not siding with the banks here, but those people protesting don't represent me. In fact they are starting to remind me of those rich democrat marches that helped get Obama elected.

Whats crazy is OWS could have never developed 20 years ago. Now with the internet and cable TV broadcasting it's possible to get the word out.

I grew up in the 70's-80's and you just had your local TV and Radio news and we survived just fine. It seems the news tries to install fear in us now, when in reality you just need to know traffic and weather to start your day. For example the media pushes all this terror bullshit fear so we don't blink while they are spending our social security money on defense. They will keep the boogy man around for a long long time.

:1orglaugh

It's something to do ...

This is true, but in any society, organization, army, country or whatever you can never have all chiefs and no indians.

In days gone by both the chiefs and (most of) the indians had it damn good in this country and therein resided this nation's true economic power.

Now, not so much.