Question for Shap & other successful programs in the babe / pornstar niche
 

I am currently developing my first paysite in the babe / beautiful women niche.

I have a great domain (6 letters and extremely brandable), great clean design for both members and tour.

I am lacking in one area and it's a big one - content.

I have non-exclusive content which I was hoping to get things started with - naturally costs are a reason for this.

Do you guys think that it is feasible to start a site using non-exclusive content?

The domain is a few years old and has been a freesite / free paysite that collected emails (few thousand collected and 700 confirmed emails). It gets minimal traffic right now ~10k a month as it has been left to sit until I had properly thought out what to do with the domain.

I can get traffic to the site and have sites that deal with this niche so have an understanding of how to convert this type of site.

My only real concern is with re to content not being exclusive - I have a fairly clear idea as to what I would like to do if the site becomes profitable, however in the mean time i'll be picking non-exclusive content.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Paul Markham - not going to read what you have to say so please keep it to yourself.

Probably need exclusive to gain any traction.

Agreed - in a perfect world, i'd be doing this.

What I am thinking / hoping is that a site that with the right layout / choice of non-exclusive content, it can get a start. Then any money that comes in from the site can be pumped into exclusive content creation.

Right now the site is not yet ready to be launched, i'm pretty much looking at content all over the place and being extremely picky.

Please shoot me an email...

That will work for a paysite, then to launch your program later you could add some exclusive or rare content. Good luck & bump for Shap.

Email sent :thumbsup

Thanks, I think non-exclusive mixed with some semi-exclusive is where it will begin.

if 2 sites have the same content the one that converts the surfer will make the money. I guess what I'm saying is understanding your traffic is possibly a bit more important than exclusive content.

however if you have been sending traffic to a site like twiistys as an affiliate it might be a bit difficult to convert your traffic to a site with 50 sets compared to the amount of content at a brazzers site.

There's your answer right there. If you have other income streams to depend on then use whatever money the site makes to create your own content.

Twistys started out with non-exclusive content that was available all over the place already.. They succeeded by truly listening to their customers, catering to them and providing multiple updates every day. They provided a product that was available elsewhere but they did it better than anyone else. There's no reason that that formula can't be repeated and succeed.

I've never run a site or anything, but have thought quite a bit about what I would do if I did, and I think one way you might be able to find original, exclusive content is by checking out the personal, non-paysite websites of some of the babes who you would want to have on your site because many of them will have photos from shoots they did with lesser known photographers. Be it either their friends or just photographers trying to get their name out there. For instance, here's Lindsay Marie's site. http://beverlyhillshoneys.com/ You'll see that the first set is by a photographer named Christos Sewell. There's another set by Andrew DeCarlo. Both of them are possible leads. I don't know anything about either of them, but if you check out a bunch of similar sites, you should be able to put together a solid shortlist of emerging talent.

Thanks - I understand what you are saying and agree whole heartedly - pretty much the reason I started the thread.

My opinion on competing with the big sites is to not try to even think of that right now - I want to (as everyone else I imagine) create a site that i'd like to buy a membership for - content I want to go wow she's smoking hot fap time!

Honestly there is some great non-exclusive stuff out there, some banging hot models - some of the sets / attire is dated but still hot.

Thanks jimmy - that's a great idea, will definitely follow that train of thought up.

This is the plan for the start up of the site :thumbsup

I do remember Shap saying something about this some time ago and was interested in what he thought with re to doing that now - back when Twistys started it would have been a completely different can of worms.

Good luck!

Exclusive content only counts if you are marketing to someone that has seen all the content on the net. New surfers come in all the time and all content is exclusive to them. Don't worry about it until you get big enough to shoot your own. Then all you will have to worry about is finding models that have not been photographed yet.

Thanks!

haha yeah that's *all* :thumbsup Appreciate the input - will keep that in mind.

*** bump ***

It's worth a try rather than sit on the domain for another few years wondering what if..
I'd try to add 1 or 2 exclusive sets a month to start with and increase that number as the site grows.
Best of luck with it :)

George, I may be able to get hold of some never sold before content from one of the best glamor shooters in the business. He's retired now ad sitting on archives that might fit the bil. What I need to know is how much can you afford.

Otherwise hit up Micheal Ancher this is his site. http://www.glamourgirls.com/

Michael shoots the best non exclusive content you'll ever find.

Every set unseen by a viewer is exclusive. This whole myth started with affiliates getting turned down by TGP sites for submitting the cheap saturated content sponsors were giving them. And Zmasters selling their discs 1,000s of times.

Your real problem George is the number of people with top class glamor content or the budget to shoot it or finding people who can shoot it for the price you can afford.

That's why Met Art types sites are at the top. So few can get up there with them.

content. or you must be bro, offer high pps to get high traffic volume, then scam surfer. there is no miracles, all is just numbers

Content is King, traffic is queen.

Bastard is sales!

I have contacted my friend and samples will be coming. Anyone else want top drawer stuff, hit me up.

Don't worry, not me shooting it.

Shap's explained it many times, he was very successful with non-exclusive content - the problem was his biggest and best suppliers of glamour content(Cloud9, Matrix, JokerSX) went out of business. He had no choice but to start hiring out photographers for exclusive glamour content.

I think if the non-exclusive content was available even today you can still create a paysite that is moderately successful in the glamour niche. IF, and it's a big IF, you can generate enough of your own targeted quality traffic. Without exclusive content you'll have next to no luck getting affiliate traffic.

If I wanted to find non-exclusive glamour content I would try to contact the DVD studios - they shoot stills sets as well as video. Times are tough, maybe some of them would license photosets and videos for a decent price.

Check out Adult Centro, I saw some glamour photosets on there of current adult stars.

Glamour is a tough niche.

if u do non-exclusive then your price has to be dirt cheap. im talking like $5 a month. and that price doesn't really say 'glamour'. the problem with glamour is you can't really come up with something new, even with a ton of dough. almost every glamour site is a copy of another. if u want to make money and are set on glamour, you have to tweak it somehow. like glamour milfs, sleeping glamour, glamour creampies, etc. otherwise you have zero chance of success.
>

Couldn't have said it better myself, especially in the babe niche... when you start with micro niches it's a different story though

Brazzers used to be 100% NON-EXCLUSIVE content. They hired me to shoot some share (semi-exclusive) content for them. I kept telling them that they needed to go exclusive or they'd never make thier mark. The consumer doesn't give 2 shits how much money you saved on content BTW - they just buy or log off. "I've never seen her, that, him, whatever before..." enter credit card info. So they finally listened to me and went 100% exclusive and gave that non-exclusive away for free as a tube site called "Porn hub" ever heard of it? They are kind of a big deal.

1. Use non-exclusive & semi-exclusive content as a foundation (bonus) to keep the surfer from leaving imediately upon paying.

2. Shoot 12-60 (or more if you can afford it) exclusive sets and update as often as possible. Start with solo masturbation and mix in a little girl/girl & boy/girl for spice.

3. Get that shit live and making money you're going to need it to buy & update with exclusive content every week.

4. Contact every review site and ask for them to review your site. This will take a while as they are backlogged for up to 3 months depending upon thier size & popularity.

5. Play the traffic game like everyone else and pray you make your money back. And take the initiative every single day to get more traffic & content. This is not "Field of dreams" it's a fuckin sharkfight and the babe niche is the hardest (but most rewarding) to do.

Good luck!

Oh, and hit me up to shoot exclusive content with never-before seen amateurs @ [email protected]

create a site that other people will buy a membership for. one of the biggest issues with webmasters is not appealing to a broad enough market, except in small fetish niches.

I see this all the time at GFY "that chick is a pig", when in fact I know "that chick converts and retains".

another isssue I see a lot of is bad design layouts BECAUSE a 'programer' thinks it's cool.

hit me with an email I'll tell you something very interesting. sell at bmbhome dot com

Glamour milf ok, sleeping glamour ok. Glamour creampie?? :winkwink:

Shooting glamor is more than some think. Its about getting a lot of things right, not just the easy part of image quality.

Its about getting the right models, location, make up, clothing and poses in a sequence covering all the basic poses, angles and frames. To shoot a glamor set good enough to get into Penthouse, Playboy or Hustler takes a day or more for most shooters.

To shoot a set good enough for Club, Mayfair Cheri, Chic, Leg World level takes a day or maximum 2 a day.

That's why the rewards at that level were so high. These were not sets selling for $700 exclusive for a set and video.

A facsimile of this level can be done for $700, it will be hard work. Points will be missed and the real quality wont be there. Will the surfer know the difference? The connoisseur for sure , I doubt if the money is there today.

Fit and healthy I could of done, did a few sets, there was just more faster money to be earned shooting brand new teens for teen mags. How much?

Not the $3,000 I wanted to get me back. Probably $2000 minimum. For 3 scenes of the same girl. Yes very different times. :(

Fortunately I don't have to. :thumbsup

And do know a man who could and still can.

In fact if it's stills. I have a few contacts that can help you out George.

The truth in this thread is this:

HOW you present your content (exclusive or not) so that it converts with traffic you "understand" how to market to equals sales. Exclusive/non-exclusive doesn't matter as much as understanding your traffic and how to sell to that traffic.

Marketing is King, Traffic is Queen

Who does the shooting for Strip LV ?

Thanks - 'Bite off more than you can chew, then chew like hell'

Mutt - was hoping you would chime in on this thread.

Traffic - I can feed the site traffic, not insane amounts, however enough to get regular signups / test if the site converts.

I checked out Adult Centro and could not find many photo sets on there - I think it was one in the niches I selected. I'll have another look.

I have been finding it quite difficult to find content of specific models ie Marry Queen / Carrie Du Four - if anyone knows where I can find these models / types of models - would appreciate it.

$5 a month = I personally would never buy a membership, that would indicate to me the site is a piece of shit (perceived value).

Thanks Peter - have saved your email when/if I am able to start shooting exclusively.

Shot you an email.

Another man I was hoping would add to this thread - have enjoyed reading your successes and have started seriously thinking about creating this site after reading a few of your threads.

With re to converting - whilst i'm no expert, I have been experimenting with a few different concepts on my affiliate sites with re to gallery / layout / etc and it has worked very well. The design for the paysite is based on less is more with design. Time will tell how it works though.

Thanks for the input MisterPeabody!

No problem at all, my pleasure, and feel free to hit me up via ICQ if I can ever help out with anything. Many on this board (and some in this very thread) have helped ME countless times so I always enjoy passing on whatever help I can to others.

Just don't blame me if your sales go down, heh. :D

When it comes to design, without getting specific, I believe in one "principle" and I see so many sites not even consider this:

Guide the surfer through the site, like he's blind. CLICK HERE and NEXT PAGE and SEE MORE etc. I always assume that the dude is hitting my website with his dick literally in one hand and his mouse in the other, waiting for that reason, that impulse, to buy now. So don't make him search for where to go next, guide the hapless horny fuck through your site (and get him to the Join page ASAP). Cha-ching!! :)

Good luck man. :thumbsup:thumbsup

If you want a 30 day membership only. If you want the member to stay longer marketing and traffic doesn't do anything.

Even so what do you call "marketing" telling a surfer that something that clearly isn't great, that it is?

Or just getting so many links out there someone will see the content and like it enough to buy?

When a surfer hits a tour, all the "marketing" is weak. He's looking at the picture samples, the video samples and is lured by the design and layout. He's not buying a book, so not reading. He's buying mental stimulation via his senses of sight.

So from here on content is what makes him buy. The content a shooter produces and the content a designer produces. In that order.

That's why one site will convert twice as well as another with exactly the same or very similar design. Anyone can copy "Met Arts" design, but my tour will never convert like there's. Or any other leading site in the niche.

Same goes for traffic. Some sites need 1,000 hits to make a sale, some samples need 100 hits to make one banner click. Some sites make a quarter of the money for an affiliate. As a site with content at the top of it's game.

Now the problem is and will always be. "Can the site afford content at the top of it's game?"

one thing about exclusive is the model exclusive or just that episode. My recollection is that most of the girls I used to promote twistys over the years appeared on a bunch of other sites. So one thing to think about is that if you pick the right models you will do fine with non-exclusive. That could be something to work toward. The key I believe is not just quality but quantity. you need both. One update a week is gonna be tough with other sites that provide network access to 30 or more sites which if they update once week that gives the surfer 4 updates day.

If you regard real 1:1 phone chats with PornStars as content, hit me up.

Most models are prepared to share their % with affiliates to get their phone ringing...

This of course is the problem with "exclusive". It's exclusivity is

"It's the only site with Sue, dressed in that outfit on that sofa."

Sue is available on the same sofa, doing the same thing on another site. Just not in that dress. Probably shot by the same shooter.

If not Sue, another similar girl on a similar sofa doing the same things. After a while it all lacks identity and individuality.

:2 cents:

The business would of been far far better with a limited semi exclusive system of (and this is just an example) 10 shooters, supplying 10 sites, semi exclusive on a constant basis. The price of a solo girl scene would be around $100, lesbian, $250, boy girl $400. With 10 sales this gives shooters enough money to vary the scenes more, with 10 shooters you have 10 ways of shooting mad it's at a price that allows site to have multiple updates. So keeping members as members longer.

Once the price is shaved to the minimum or one shooter supplies everything, sometimes both. content becomes cloned and boring.

I think the target for a 30 site network tends to be different than the target for a babe or art nudes site.

Hi George. First up I don't check gfy as much as I used to. You can always email any questions to 88shap at gmail.

There is one thing I've told everybody for the past 7 or so years. If I had to do it again I would never start a babe site.

Before I can answer any of your questions my question to you is why are you starting a babe/beautiful women site?

Second to that what is your long term goal for the site in terms of size (sales/revenue/members). When we started Twistys our initial goal was 100+ signups a day and to get to 10,000 members.

Too bad PM said it first because it's obviously true. Some will reject the fact only because PM said it. If surfer X hadn't seen it before, it may as well be exclusive when selling to surfer X. So try to stay away from saturated content.

that like saying you can succeed at selling dial up internet by sending cd thru the mail because aol did that

the market/competition has changed.

I have been wondering about this as well - my question is, if the non exclusive content that is posted on the site is - a huge quanitity, even if maybe 2/3 of it is older content.. and it's a deal for members, say joining a site or network with 15k images - even though they're not exclusive images.. is there even a point to a site like this anymore? ( as i'm building my 3rd out of a network of non exclusive conent )

Starting a pornstar / babe website with non exclusive content would be difficult at best. You'll be forever labeled as a non exclusive site.

I have a bunch of semi exclusive babe content if anyone is still in the market for it.

Exclusive makes a LOT of sense, IMO, if your content is highly branded / recognizable.

i.e., a Woodman site is immediately perceived as "that thing". Eromaxx, the old Milfhunter, countless of other monster successes, would NOT have been possible with generic off-the-shelf content.

We only shoot exclusive ourselves, but we try to make every site extremely recognizable. If I were to launch a generic niche, though, I would just buy filler and good to go. I doubt it would convert so well, though, in the tube/filelocker age. If you are not recognized as special, I seriously wonder why anyone would shell his credit card.

Shap built Twistys in a different time, when it was ok to buy content. Even so, he was smart enough to make it brandable. Besides Twistys, there are only a few other examples of guys starting with bought content who managed to make a great brand out of it. MetArt is certainly another one, but they enjoyed the first mover advantage in an awesome niche.

Today, if anyone plans to build a seriously converting/recognizable brand out of generic/bought/non-exclusive content, you are probably heading towards a monster failure.

MetArt has always had only exclusive content.

So how are the first two sites going

It's always good to START SOMETHING ANYTHING even if you are starting with Non-Exclusive content at least you are getting a site online and starting somewhere.

You can also use your best judgement to decide what Non-Exclusive content will work and not seem like "Reposts" to your surfers.

But...

Don't start a babe site you won't be able to compete.

It's a good time to buy exclusive content but it's a horrible time to try and start a site in the "babes" niche.

Just saying...

I'll agree with this.. for one reason, and I'm a traffic guy..

I recently took on a mainstream client in a somewhat broad, yet particular niche. He told me how one supplier of his was doing upwards of $30 million in sales per year, but had a terrible product.. they then bought a company out who did mid 6 figures per year, but had an amazing product.


Now that company does over $100 million per year and they're rapidly growing. The only difference was the $30 million/yr company had some of the best marketing and sales people money could buy.