Dedicated vs Cloud Server
 

I am planning to use Wowza for streaming on my sites and I will need to upgrade my dedicated server to a better dedicated or switch to cloud server. Which option would you guys recommend and why?

For me at least, the jury's still out on that one. I'm running on both right now (physical and cloud).

So far the cloud is experimental for me. One thing with cloud vs Wowza streaming is that the disk IO requirements for high-traffic Wowza steaming can very easily overwhelm the shared storage that clouds typically use. Unless you spend big bucks on a really high-end environment (Cisco UCS + NetApp for example).

Anyway, must my first thoughts so far..

Really depends on what your needs are (how much bandwidth, how much storage etc etc)

I don't really need much bandwidth or storage, I need reliable server so I can stream content to the members of my sites. That's why I am thinking about Wowza but apparently my current dedicated server does not support Wowza so I need to upgrade. The questions is: should I upgrade to better dedicated or switch to cloud?

actually live streaming uses a ton of bandwidth, instead of buying the software or getting a license to to use it month by month, just use a place already leasing either a flash server or windows media server, nakedhosting.com has both, all ready setup for you to use.

Wowza is a software package which runs on almost every operating system and can run fine along your current software in most cases.

Did they tell you why it doesn't run on your current server?

They didn't, I just assumed my server was too slow for Wowza.

Just get a dedicated unless you have rapid fluctuations in usage and want to scale accordingly.

You can probably run an nginx install as well as apache on your current server, or get a new box and run wowza on it.

What are the hardware requirements?
As a minimum we recommend a quad core system with at least 1 GB of RAM per core. To get the most throughput out of Wowza Media Server software we suggest you use RAID 0 or RAID 10 configurations with at least 2 or more disks in the array. Depending upon your application and load, you may need more or less horsepower.
http://www.wowza.com/faq

Yes, my server is definitely not up to date :)

What about lighttpd? Any good?

I would go with nginx over lighttpd, if you have a managed server just ask your host to set it up.

I am thinking about using CMS by www.flamine.com and I think it uses lighttpd.

it says highly recommended but i am pretty sure you can make it work on nginx too, you probably only have to setup some rewrite rules anyway

It should run on lighttp or nginx, it says "highly recommended" meaning it isn't even required so they probably just use it for streaming. Just a guess, you could ask them.

Not sure that wp based cms is worth running your sites on.

"Do you offer any money back guarantee?
No. You can see what you get, there are extensive examples and as long as your server has the minimum requirements the software will work. If any problem arises, we can replace your script if needed, but that's about it. Also, we can't and won't tell your hosting company how to configure their servers, therefore we can't be responsible for any problem with your server. If you're unsure, please avoid purchasing this script"

&

Not Found

The requested URL /support.html was not found on this server.
www.flamine.com

OK, I will ask Harvey about it. Why do you think nginx is better than lighttpd?

I know, no money back guarantee is why I keep asking Harvey loads of extra questions about Flamine. I am not 100% convinced about WP based CMS but on the other hand I would have to pay loads of money for a custom CMS and then more money when I need to change something in the future (if the programmer is still be available in few years).

Looks like you have moved on from Wowza but M3Server has a license for it if you are still thinking Wowza in the back on your mind :-)

I don't give up on Wowza, I am just considering all options since I know very little on the subject :)

Amazon has no problems with high bandwidth streaming... So I'd imagine there are adult cloud hosts that can do what you need. I think most don't have the kind of cloud Amazon has...more like a puff of smoke.

I wouldn't use a cloud if you need horsepower equal to a fairly strong dedicated server. Cloud is good when you need 1/3rd of a server, or when you need fifty servers.

Software wise, recently we've worked with several people getting good results with mod_264 and mod_flv. They keep things simple and flexible by enabling Apache to atream effectively, with fast forward, etc.

Wowza is great product and actually helps reduce bandwidth usage in long run. We have been extremely happy with the results when using Wowza with our Cloud Servers as they can do nearly line speed performance (1Gbps).

Kolargol lets continue our chat. I have some options for you that I think you will find very attractive. :)

I would hope most cloud providers would be using something of the level of a NetApp.

Make sure to ask what SAN they are using. If it is something on that level, and they are using a real SAN. Cloud would be better 'TECHNICALLY' then one dedicated server. That is if the provider is doing cloud the right way. Learn cloud and ask questions, before you do that. But it is a better technology. You should also ask what kind of servers, what virtualization platform they are using, etc. A lot of people have different ideas of what cloud is and you dont want to get caught in the hype of someone doing it the wrong way.


Edit,

UCS is the BOMB.

It's understandable to be apprehensive if you are venturing away from what you know well (that being physical servers) and to a Cloud environment. Knowing the cloud infrastructure you will be hosted on means all the difference in the world. Some providers may just spin up some VMs, label it Cloud and call it a day. When on a high availability cloud infrastructure it's going to be better than a single dedicated server and have scalability to support growth.

Regarding your concerns about IOP/s when using Wowza and the Cloud, have a look here at our Webair FusionCloud server. http://www.webair.com/webhosting-cloud-fusion.html Now you're talking 10,000 IOP/s!! Thousands of IOPs faster than SAS or SSD disks! :)

We also did a GFY post when we released it if you want to check it out: https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=1057961

Sure, I will hit you up later today.

Go with a dedicated or build your own cloud.
The problem you will find with vanilla clouds that you may find around is that disk access is quite crappy for what wowza requires. Some companies have made improvements over that, but it's still slow enough to scale properly when your streaming operation becomes big.

The best you can do is get a good dedicated box with several HDs in RAID 5 or RAID 50 config and enough RAM. On the long run it will be cheaper than the cloud if you plan to scale fast and big.

I'd say go for a dedicated server with +Gbps unshared port.

Or you'll be needing to build your own cloud network and it'll cost you alot.

V-block using EMC =) Enterprise class cloud solution.

Doesn't get much better than that...

http://www.webair.com/webhosting-cloud-fusion.html Now you're talking 10,000 IOP/s!! Thousands of IOPs faster than SAS or SSD disks!

http://www.webair.com/datacenters/ny...usternodes.jpg

http://www.webair.com/datacenters/ny1/gallery3.html

So you dont have SSD or SAS drives in the EMC?

EMC is a solution, of course there is SAS & SSD. Only difference with our cloud you get 10,000 IOP/s per instance with the implementation of Fusion IO:

http://www.webair.com/webhosting-cloud-fusion.html

How is my buddy Ray btw??

I am certified by vmware and citrix, cisco etc. i can sell vblock, sell tons of UCS, NetApp, a little bit of EMC. I build private clouds. I know what the difference is. I just think the "faster then SSD or SAS when you are using SAS or SSD is kind of redundant. You can find a better marketing sentance. But I guess it doesnt matter around here since most people wouldnt know the difference anyway :).

Not just a hosting sales guy :). I just try to help Ray out. He is good. Same old I guess :).

Are you saying the people on this forum are naive? I would have to disagree with you there.

It seems you have no experience with Fusion IO, building an enterprise level cloud (private or public), and are just posting for some exposure? I would suggest you read up on Fusion IO a bit prior to making another uninformed comment ;) May want to start here:

A true Game Changer - Webair's FusionCloud Servers provide the fastest disk speeds available in the Cloud - PERIOD.
Combining the advantages of Webair's Cloud Servers, including hardware, network, and disk redundancy, each FusionCloud server includes a FusionIO volume guaranteed to deliver 10,000 IOP/s!

BTW - Does galaxy have a cloud offering? We'd love to hear about it!

I know what Fusion IO is. I know what VFCache is, I know what NetApp FlashCache is. So I do not need to read up on it. And to say that people on this board are tech saavy on the enterprise level is you being naive and trying to brown nose. Are there some people. yes. Ask 99% of people on here what UCS is

Galaxy does not offer cloud as of yet. So sorry I cannot tell you about it.

As I mentioned working for Ray and selling hosting is not my primary business. I try to help him out by getting him some hosting accounts.

I am not trying to say your v-block is not a good infrastructure. I think it is a great one. One that I myself would sell the a customer and highly recommend I just think the marketing tactic to say faster then SSD or SAS is backwards marketing to try to persuade the naive. It my opinion. Is the i/o faster, sure. Are you still using SSD or SAS, sure.

Very professional of you to try to go tit for tat though :).

Talk to me on ICQ. Find out what I really do.

I know what Fusion IO is. I know what VFCache is, I know what NetApp FlashCache is. So I do not need to read up on it. And to say that people on this board are tech saavy on the enterprise level is you being naive and trying to brown nose. Are there some people. yes. Ask 99% of people on here what UCS is

- Ok so you are implying that only 99% of this forum are niave... That's much better.
Yes, because i need to brown nose =)

Galaxy does not offer cloud as of yet. So sorry I cannot tell you about it.

- yes i know...


As I mentioned working for Ray and selling hosting is not my primary business. I try to help him out by getting him some hosting accounts.

- He should watch who he hires to represent him more carefully IMHO.

I am not trying to say your v-block is not a good infrastructure. I think it is a great one. One that I myself would sell the a customer and highly recommend I just think the marketing tactic to say faster then SSD or SAS is backwards marketing to try to persuade the naive. It my opinion. Is the i/o faster, sure. Are you still using SSD or SAS, sure.

- Elaborate & explain to me / us how it is backwards marketing please?

Very professional of you to try to go tit for tat though :).

- I wasn't the one who responded negatively to your post now was i? ;)

Talk to me on ICQ. Find out what I really do.

- I have absolutely no interest.

Hey webair/mike, fuck off you fucking retard. Your tech spouts are obviously geared towards fucking idiot newbies. I've tried webair a few times over the years and you have the worst fucking hosting out of the 40 hosts I tried. Numerous weird issues that I haven't had with other hosts.

Did not read.

rackspace cloud. i enjoy cloning a server after I've spent a few hours setting it up. turnem off/on . pay for the bandwidth you use. increase/decrease RAM whenever ... store your server images ... total control and their admin is fun to play with :upsidedow . enjoy

Typical Webair bullshit.

Its funny how all I did was try to help out this user. And you replied to MY post, out of everyone's. That was not much of coincidence. Just so happens that I have hosting in my sig, from a company that you know of and it gets replied to. When I was just trying to be helpful. Do you think me saying people here are naive is a negative. You should think of it as a positive and help and teach them. This is what I was trying to do. Even talking about a solution I did not sell. And my reply was spammed by you guys.

Sorry about the negativity. I thought I was aloud to express my opinion on a message board. I guess you guys are the only hosts aloud on here now?

So then you ask about Galaxy Cloud, knowing its something we dont offer. Another lowlife tactic. Very professional.

The way it is backwards marketing is that you are using SAS drives and or SSD and you are saying its faster then SAS or SSD. Also, I wasnt sure Fusion I/O made something that did less then 100k I/O's. Which one does 10k?

Or I guess your marketing tactics are just to try to demean other hosting companies. Then you think you know who I am or what I know because you are mad I think what you are saying is marketing bullshit. Then you try to put me down and personally insult me. Thats classy of you.

I am not going tit for tat with you. Get a clue first before you try to mislead the customer.

This is the last time I will respond to you. So no need to respond. You win the advertising battle in this thread. You did it. Congrats. LOL.

It's true, nothing on the Fusion I/O website does under 100k IOPS, Webair must be somehow under clocking their products by 10 times.

Check again. I provided a link to our FusionCloud page as well as to the post we originally did here regarding our FusionCloud release. It clearly stated: each FusionCloud server includes a Fusion-io volume guaranteed to deliver 10,000 IOP/s (these can be customized as well for even greater performance). We worked directly with FusionIO to release this first of it's kind Cloud offering. In addition we offer FusionIO Dedicated servers as well that can deliver 150,000 IOP/s.

Didn't you get the memo? Webairs moto is to spam all their service in every thread.

Webair can eat a dick.

lol, way to make phone calls thinking I might get fired or something. You guys are great. TOP NOTCH!

So Webair stopped replying then sent in his cronie to answer for him.

Meanwhile he called the guy he knows at the company in your sig?

I guess they showed you.

Wonder if they will delete my hosting account for speaking out.

i don't follow, they called your office?

I guess they happen to know the owner of the business. He just called me saying they called him. Thing is. The owner is a good friend of mine for a long time. We do other business together. I put them in my sign and try to sell some boxes for them as a favor for being friends for a long time. I have been in the hosting technology business since 1996-97. I think they thought I technically was an employee and were trying to get me fired or something. Unless it was to say how thoughtful they think I am. I don't know. All that over a disagreement over marketing strategies on a message board. Pretty wild. Because nowhere did I ever say there solution was not good.

Wow that's crazy, i thought they maybe called you to do a tech talk or something and talk it out like geeks, not to get you fired lol

As you see above, he didn't want to talk to me on icq. I tried :)> I love talking tech. A true nerd.

I still would love to hear some opinions on dedicated vs cloud :)