You thought CCBill was bullshit before? This takes the cake.
 

A person buys an annual sub for one time fee $137.00 (EU regional pricing) on 8/16/2011.

Weekly log ins all from the same IP address used to sign up, then 7 months later the subscriber does a charge back on 03/17/2012

CCBill, SEVEN MONTHS FREE ACCESS??? Are you guys for real?!?!

As we all know, CCbill's policy is to never ever challenge a charge back. Excuse given is, "It's costs more to challenge it than it is worth".

This was the last straw for me. Since day one CCBill has been nothing but a BS service.

From them telling me last year that I violated their "TOS" and so I asked them to point out specifically what it was in their TOS I violated so I could see it in writing and CCBill replying "well, its not exactly written in our TOS, BUT! We are under no obligation to inform clients about everything in our TOS" This of course I understood to mean they could virtually make it up as they go along and it was all contingent on which representative I was talking to at the moment. Several emails to the higher-ups about that issue all went ignored. Not even one person in the chain of command at CCbill bothered to even reply to one of my many emails. Incidentally, the video they claimed was in violation of their "imaginary make it up as we go along TOS", stayed online in defiance of their reps demand to remove it from the site.

And then, a few months back there was a two week period that CCbill's log in process malfunctioned. No matter how many times WE (CCbill live support reps) changed my password, the site refused to allow me access to my own account. CCBill's people changed the password for me several times, and for 2 weeks, even THEIR passwords would not allow me access to my own account.

And now this?

CCBill, you just lost a 100k+/year client (on this one particular site, but oh yes, all of my other sites will go too) unless you fix this. This is not how business is done and I think anyone else would agree. It's fraud, and you need to grow a spine and stand up for your clients.

I look forward to your response to this matter. Should you not fix this, this thread just became my permanent signature.

I wish ccbill would close. So everyone would have to use epoch or zombaio.

unethical charge back to a certain period of time. if you can hear ccbills excuses on those matters it seems like they don't know what they are talking about and just following this simple script written on their notepad just to explain what they have been thought. Well i also have been experience a very hard time with those guys so i don't know if all those transactions made me a lot of liabilities or its just ccbills stuff decisions but don't know what their are doing. Hope i can talk to the seniors who really k now what they are doing, or i already talk to them? Well its the past and i have learned from it. shame their lost of client.

Talking about processors...

Epoch sent an email to a friend with a 24 hour termination notice. The reason Epoch gave was for a link on the site to another webmasters site. They would not specify which link (trade/hardlink). All links were to high quality well established webmasters sites in similar niche. Even when offered to remove site link (if they said which one) they would not budge from termination but Epoch offered to extend termination notice to 2 weeks. All rebills stopped after termination.

Site concerned is still processing with CCBill, Zombaio and others. Make up your own mind on this matter.

The chargeback/credit period has to do with the individual relationship with the bank.

seriously i LOST money because of 3 chargebacks and refunds.
People shouldn't be allowed to do that.

No company is perfect fine sire.

:2 cents:

it always makes me giggle when pornpushers complain about bad service and or practice.

:Oh crap:Oh crap

Long Memberships
 

To be honest I would never offer nor promote a membership of that duration... We used to do 6 month memberships back in the day, and alas most of them resulted in chargebacks...

I guess if someone is going to chargeback they will do weather it's 1 month or a year... just doesnt hurt as much... I feel your pain, but not sure the blame lies with CCBill, dont think Epoch could of done it any different...

Surely it's more VISA and the relationships with banks... ?

Then you do not promote recurring either?

I have seen the same with rebilling. ONE Customer might even have been longer than 7 months charged them ALL back.

Excuse was, they didn't check credit card statements.
Proof the account user/pass was used weekly, same email address same IP range for signup and logins.

THE OP should feel LUCKY,
as it was just ONE chargeback, in the case I just stated it was a Chargeback for Every Month.

its 1990 at ccbill and their stat system is still fucked up...prepare to push LOOKUP 100 times to access stats

had CCBill lock me out by IP for the first time in almost 10 years cause the new interface isnt compatible with Chrome.
was told I have to use FF or IE to access till they fix the the problem.

Wont be holding my breath on that one..

Go after the guy who did the chargebacks. Chances are he does this to a lot of sites.

This is why it's called "High Risk". With an electronic transaction of digital goods or services, there is no proof of delivery. Repeat purchases, email confirmations, IP Address tracking etc, are still not proof according to the biller. The burden is on the merchant to do everything.

It doesn't mean that you are out of luck though. You could try calling the customer and asking why he charged back. You could also threaten to get your lawyer involved if he doesn't pay his bill. On small purchases and chargebacks its probably just as easy to let it go, but for big purchases it is worth chasing.

seriously ccbill was outdated already in 2001 the worst affiliate program ever seen on the internet.

I disagree when it is part of the CCBill record that 2 months is the most by standard practice that they will allow someone to get one over on you... As evident by the transaction record that every subscriber has, their transaction history shows exactly what is a standard and tolerable refund span, and what is "You paid, you stayed, we will not discuss giving anything back."

initial 0210337501000017026 on 2010-12-03 for $29.99(USD) Too old to refund
rebill 0111002701000039757 on 2011-01-02 for $29.99(USD) Too old to refund
rebill 0111032201000037613 on 2011-02-01 for $29.99(USD) Too old to refund
rebill 0111062401000048118 on 2011-03-03 for $29.99(USD) Too old to refund
rebill 0111092601000043174 on 2011-04-02 for $29.99(USD) Too old to refund
rebill 0111122101000042254 on 2011-05-02 for $29.99(USD) Too old to refund
rebill 0111152301000039804 on 2011-06-01 for $29.99(USD) Too old to refund
rebill 0111182501000039665 on 2011-07-01 for $29.99(USD) Too old to refund
rebill 0111212701000038272 on 2011-07-31 for $29.99(USD) Too old to refund
rebill 0111242201000037579 on 2011-08-30 for $29.99(USD) Too old to refund
rebill 0111272401000037251 on 2011-09-29 for $29.99(USD) Too old to refund
rebill 0111302601000037248 on 2011-10-29 for $29.99(USD) Too old to refund
rebill 0111332101000036478 on 2011-11-28 for $29.99(USD) Too old to refund
rebill 0111362301000037859 on 2011-12-28 for $29.99(USD) Too old to refund
rebill 0112027501000037952 on 2012-01-27 for $29.99(USD) Refund Transaction
rebill 0112057701000038786 on 2012-02-26 for $29.99(USD) Refund Transaction

7 months however is inexcusable. I owned a retail business for many years in the US that could be deemed high risk for credit card sales, I owned a retail adult toy and video store. Not even ONCE was there ever a successful charge back amid all the buyers remorse and shady clowns that would roll through there 24 hours a day. When I received notice of a charge back, it was a simple 5 minute process. I would pull the copy, call the credit card company and read to a rep the buyers' drivers license number that my clerks would copy onto the sales slip and demand my money. 100% of every charge back ever attempted in 9 years of business denied and every customer ended up paying. Its a 5 minute call. CCbill makes millions of dollars, you would think they could hire one person to make 15 minutes worth of calls on behalf of a site that (in my case) averages 3 charge backs per year. No, this is flat out CCBill aiding and condoning robbery and I want to know why they handle it so poorly now, when this poor business practice will be cured, and when will I see that money this person owes me for services rendered credited back into my account!

I understand with the weekend I can't hope for an instant reply from CCBill here on GFY, but as the weekend ends and they all get back to work, I want my money!

And I will be immensely pissed off if they come in here Monday with their song and dance about how their fraud protection program works diligently to weed out all the bad players because that right there will get me fired up about how the same person from the same IP address (217.114.211.245) under two different names on one of our sites, a third name on another site we own, and even a fourth name on a competitors site pulled off charge backs on all three sites (one site he did it twice) and how they did nothing to fight back and secure our money!

We know the exact same person dinged one of our competitors simply because I was so mad that CCBill dropped the ball on us THREE TIMES ALREADY that I took the issue to the boards and this competitor ran the information I posted when I outted the purchaser.

Maybe in this case it will help here too and if any of you find that CCBill allowed this person to do this to you, CCBill can also answer as to why they fail so miserably with fraud protection! So here, I will out this prick so you all can run his info through your charge back history.

Details for Subscription 0311228201000004172
USER NAME USED: WHv4IPid
Email: [email protected]
IP Address: 84.19.169.238
Phone: N/A
Credit card (MASTERCARD- BIN#548696)
Customer Information:
Rainer Schwarz
Kapellstr. 87
Heidenheim, XX 89520
Germany
AVS:
CVV2:
Stat: R
Retries: 0

Why is that Grumpy? Is it possible that you believe you yourself in particular act as a porn pusher that engages in practices that reflect bad service and practices and that you deserve to be treated as some flaky amateur clown with a business license? We do not. Look in your own home for vilification. We are a professional company that deserves the same payment for services rendered that any other non-porn related business deserves.

Hey friends we cannot verify if this is true but we heard that one billling company is going to add a hot new feature to help ease client/webmaster frustration

They are going to add a "client/merchant chargeback" option inside of the admin portal.

Now if a client merchant or webmaster was unsatisfied with their billing companies customer support, or felt that their questions were not properly answered, or if they felt their support emails were not answered timely or even ignored...

You the merchant/client/webmaster will now be able to click a button in the billing admin and "chargeback" your 15% in billing company fees you paid for the week.

no more going around in circles with billing reps, no more stressing and fussing over ignored emails, no more coming to gfy and venting your frustrations...

Just login to your billing admin and hit that brand new shiny "client/merchant chargeback" button and presto...

faster than you can say "everything is working fine" your collected fees for the week are placed back into your account for your next payout!

Cheer up guys from what I heard its being beta tested right now and will be operational soon :thumbsup:2 cents:

DWB HAHA at the $5 on top! Love it!

Says it belongs to a Cyberghost, anonymous surfing IP address.
http://cyberghostvpn.com/

My understanding is that most banks will do a charge back for anything within the last 6 months. With the current month it could be 7 months.

CCBill can do nothing about this, it's the client who called up his bank and complained and did the chargeback.

I don't think he expected CCBill to prevent the chargeback in the first place. I think his point is that he feels CCBill didn't do anything to fight it after the fact when it was clearly a fraudulent chargeback.

BIN Name GENOSSENSCHAFTLICHE ZENTRABANK AG (GZ-BANK AG)
BIN Phone Match NA
BIN Phone 491805585252
BIN is prepaid No

You're not too bright are you?

Or do you really believe that each and every program is crooked?


.

Yep...I've had CC Bill do the same thing. They don't seem to challenge ANY chargebacks. :(

I even have logs of every member I have, complete with IP address and log in times. And I've sent those records to them before and got nothing back from them on it.

And I was doing a VOD on the site for a few years where I let people download specific scenes without buying a membership. (stopped that because of the insanity of piracy)...and I would have the logs of them downloading the scenes and everything...and then when a scumbag would chargeback, CC Bill wouldn't even challenge that!

It was just open season for people to steal. :(

Really, Rainer Schwarz on a pornsite ?

This is a shitty part of ccbill.

This depends on the situation.

The card holder might call Mastercard/Visa and demand a chargeback. They will grant the chargeback without question or at worst, ask him to sign some paperwork.

If the card holder calls CCBill instead, CCBIll will try to solve the problem and let the merchant know about the problem (if the rep is good). Same for Segpay. In the event that a customer had a problem accessing our site, Segpay emailed us to let us know about the problem which let us solve it for the customer and prevent the chargeback.

The best thing to do is to make it very very easy for your customers to contact you. Think about it: If your customer buys a subscription to your site but gets some kind of error, he is completely within his right to charge it back. What you want is for him to call you before CCBill or Visa, so that you can fix the problem for him.

Not only do you prevent the chargeback, but you keep your customer.

If you want to fight chargebacks, get a merchant account. Then you can also see what it's like to manage a banking relationship and risk in addition to everything else you do. I think someone at CCBill should invite you into their office for a day, since you seem to think you can run their company better then they can.

Most billers don't fight CBs. They are too concerned with the other major issues around running a processor - like managing risk and their banking relationships. Lastly, if you look at how they charge their processing %, its based upon gross, so if they collect funds around fighting CBs, it makes no difference to them, nor to any processor. On that $137 that just got chargedback, they still probably charged you the 13.5 - 15% or whatever they charge on the original transaction. This is standard in processing, so you actually came out at a net loss. At the same time, the processor ate fees to the bank that you don't see, like a $fee per chargeback.

As far as I know, this is standard industry practice. To me, you look a bit foolish going on a major rant on them. As for the $100k / year, that's small as fuck - especially in the world of processing. I want you to know that. You shouldn't run around like you are high and mighty, because you aren't.

Also, you just publicly released privacy info around an end user on a public forum. You may think nothing of it, but that's pretty bad. I think you need to check yourself.

CCbill is an excellent company and we often refer clients to them if we cannot help them establish a merchant account and processing with NETbilling. However, if you want more control over the processing, how chargebacks are handled, and for you to have the opportunity to dispute chargebacks among hundreds of other flexible features, we welcome you to contact us and let us explain everything that NETbilling can do for you.

Thank you, Mitch Farber

word... get a merchant account.

I list my phone number and site name (without the dot com) on the transactions.

I get calls but they are always taken care of. If you are serious then a merchant account...

with the right people

Is the way to go.

Erm, NO! Visa/Mastercard do NOT just grant a chargeback. There is a process. They card issuing bank puts in a chargeback request to the acquiring bank who then present the chargeback to the merchant (in this case ccbill). This is then approved or rejected. If rejected, the merchant will be asked for supporting evidence for the rejection which will then be passed to the issuing bank. If this is still not enough and the dispute is not resolved the transaction goes to arbitration.

Unfortunately, with memberships on porn sites using a mass billing company like ccbill or even epoch, who process millions of transactions a year, the whole presentation process is way too much to handle and quite possibly all of then are passed back to the issuing bank as approved for refund.

If you want the more stringent approach of validating all chargeback requests and following the mandated card companies rules on how to process a chargeback then you will need to use your own merchant account and handle all customer service related procedures yourself.

I know this is not ideal but imagine that ccbill just processed 5 million transactions a year and of those 5 million, just 1% were chargebacks - that leaves them having to process 50,000 chargebacks a year. This number may seem small in the grand scheme of things but now consider that they need to contact each of their clients to verify and collect supporting evidence to fight this chargeback and you have more than quadrupled the effort required to fight it. It's just easier to pass it back as refund approved!

I do promote and use them a lot, most of cases (with updated sites and everything working) it is fine...

but again, with a merchant it is a bit easier

:thumbsup

Who does merchant accounts for adult? Most of the processors seem to avoid like the plague.

You people are bitching about digital, high risk transactions. If you are doing 100k a year consider yourself lucky.

I dare any of you to try and make it with hard goods and chargebacks. You think ccbill is bad? You'll be crawling back to it after you swim with the real mainstream sharks.

The internet is getting bigger, and smaller, and the customer is always right. lol. competition good!

thats a long time to chargeback LOL

its been that way for the 10 yrs Ive had my sites. It sucks, thank god it doesnt happen too often. Now what would make it more painful, ibill used to charge for the cb which ccbill doesnt do.
We make it very easy to contact us and have fixed problems but you got a certain percentage that are scumbags. They just want something for free.

It's not a good idea to post customer information like this. It's likely against some sort of privacy law and I would be shocked if CCBill and Mastercard did not also have a policy against it.

Correct... and save $ too

Well I am going to do it again because it is becoming more clear now with the IP address in use, and the dates involved, that this person is not using his real name nor his real address so all privacy laws go out the window. This just adds to my disappointment with CCBill because it appears too easy for purchasers to type in anything for names and addresses and the transactions are being accepted anyway.


Signup Information:
USER: UAer6Yhu
Email: [email protected]
IP Address: 84.19.169.173
Phone: N/A
Credit card (MASTERCARD- BIN#523256)
Juergen Kreuz
Im Schnabelstal 7a
Furtwangen, XX 78120
Germany
AVS:
CVV2:
Stat: R
Retries: 0
Member Since: 2011-09-24
Chargeback on 2012-03-18

-This one for a hair under 6 months.
-Charged back one day following the first one.
-Same IP address.
-No known phone number for both

Anyway, it makes perfect sense now and this will get more interesting as it just adds elements to the issue with this particular guy. We know who this guy is. We learned of Eric Zimmerman last year, an individual who has been chillingly desperate to get the attention of one of our models. Eric is a freakishly overweight guy from Germany. From his pictures he looks to be sporting about 500 lbs of weight. Nothing new for porn I am sure when the occasional nut comes along all too interested in a particular model. If anything, I just feel bad for the guy. He tries so hard to gain the attention of a model we shot several times with last year, but in truth she does not even know he exists. I guess he is mad at us for not facilitating personal contact with her, and particularly mad at us for refusing to forward on his (what now might even exceed) thousands of emails to this girl, which we will not do.

As for CCbill,
1) AVS or CVV2 numbers are required to complete the purchase according to my settings and talks with CCbills reps under two different occasions to complain about it not getting checked. CCbill just can't get that right as evident by both fields being blank on both transactions.

2) Why is CCbill not matching names and addresses to the credit cards?

3) Why is not CCbill, in an effort to prevent fraud, declining all purchase attempts that come through via VPN's and proxies?

4) I don't really care if the process of challenging charge backs creates work for people at CCBill. It needs to be an option for clients, and CCBill will get zero sympathy from us.

"We have a total of 9 pay sites. All 9 are marginally as successful as each other and son, we have probably paid more to CCBill in fee's this last year than you have earned in the last ten years combined."

:error:error:error:error

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh
You just got owned. Next time better check who the guy is when you post stuff like that. FYI, Biggy owns FuckYouCash, BoyProfits, SoloGirlWebmasters and... damn, what was the name of that other Program with the legal GF content?

So I'd say he pays more in billing fees this year like all your site's net income in the last 10 years. But nice try, dude :thumbsup

enjoy getting sued.

This ^ . People need to do their homework before calling out others for being beneath them... or they might just look like major asshats. CCbill is awesome. Quit crying about a chargeback.

I love ccbill so far.. although their interface is slow.

CCBILL OWNERS

Be happy you were only screwed for a little, that you didn't get owned by
any of these in the past, iBill, Epoch, DMR, Websitebilling, epassporte

lets not forget the scamming cunts at GloBill

paypal refunded on me without telling me was a year and a half after the i sold an item