Who do programmers lie all the time about when they will deliver?
 

This happens all the time.
A developer says "I'll have it done by this weekend" or "It will be done in 4 days"
and it NEVER gets done by then.

I dont care if it takes 3-4 weeks, but tell me that beforehand, so I dont plan that your work will be done in time. Dont tell me it will be done in 4 days when it takes 4 weeks.

And this happens with different developers, not just one.
It delays everything else. Now I have to put off the QA people I had.

Fucking hate when people say theyre going to do something in time, then they disappear.

I can give you an idea as to why this happens...

1. Poorly planned project and they didn't put much effort into estimating.
2. The project isn't paying very well, so it isn't taking priority.
3. They quote actual hours, not days to complete. For example, if they quote a 20 hour project, that doesn't mean it'll be done within the next 24 hours. That means, they will probably work on it a couple hours here and there over the next while.
4. They are lazy. Maybe they wake up at 2PM, lounge around for a while. Get lost in their TV shows, then eventually make it around to sitting down at the computer at which time they get distracted by GFY, IM, FB etc...
5. They don't have good time management skills. Maybe they don't make lists, or have poor self-motivation.
6. Sometimes, the client is just a pain to deal with. It's rare, but if the project isn't clearly defined at the beginning, minor changes, feature requests, "tweaks" etc... can add a seemlessly never ending stream of scope-creep. This can cause some distress and lack of motivation. Again, this might fall under poor planning.
7. Lack of knowledge about the project or the scope.
8. Overbooked. I tend to find that clients think they are the #1 and only client any developer ever has. This is almost never the case, especially if the developer is any good. If you understand that the developer probably has 3 to 10 different projects that he/she is juggling at any given moment, it might help to shed some light on delays. If you combine this with poor project management on their end, it's most likely going to end up being a train-wreck at some point.

Anyhow, these are some of the likely culprits. All things that I have done in the past, but over the years have learned how to overcome.

probably for the same reason people say they will pay and then it NEVER gets done. that, and it does take time to go hire a freelancer to do the work for half the price.

seemingly, not seemlessly

I think you just copy and pasted that from somewhere...

I hate 6 so much...

Developers notoriously underestimate the amount of time. Once you notice that, double or triple whatever the developer says about how long it'll take, for your own peace of mind.

Even then, don't count your chickens until they've hatched.

Programmers and even web designers have no real sense of urgency. That concept is too foreign for their minds to grasp. You have to use tactics almost close to putting a gun on their head to finish a certain task.

Not all "programmers" or developers are that bad. I have found that much more common with designers than developers.

However, that being said, this following list covers a lot of things.

Not dead granny, internet outages, and some of the more common excuses and reasons.

I think it depends on where you get them from.

If you are hiring from those freelancer sites, yes. Those guys bid on everything and give you insanely unrealistic time lines to completion. After you have done many projects over the years, you start being able to guess when someone is experienced or not from the bids and ETA to completion.

For example, on those FL sites you will get someone telling you they can get complicated things done in a week, and magically can underbid everyone else's more realistic 30 day, and 20 times the cost bid. They basically look to get you to choose them, then nickel and dime you along the way. You're already invested, so they just milk you.

I prefer to hire someone like Vlad or Konrad, and get a bid that is typically where I expect it to be. Not always where I want it to be (i.e. cheaper) but where it should be for the project and time. I am happy with the end result, and it looks and works like I want. Which is why I keep giving them more business.

Additionally, there are times we get into a project, and they/I realize something could work better if we did this, or we get to a mock up stage and see some shit it just not flowing and we have to adjust the original specs of the project, sometimes taking a few steps back, and then there is extra work. Which can take a project off the original timeline.

No one likes to blow a deadline, but sometimes it can happen regardless. If it builds a better mousetrap, I am fine with it. What I am not fine with are those who disappear for three days, you do not hear from them, have to chase them down to find out whatever the excuse for the day is. That is what is infuriating.

:2 cents:

How clear were your instructions? How clearly did you communicate the deadline?

Managing and planning projects is a skill.

Developers that are really good at programming, aren't necessarily good at the above. This is why project managers are on average paid more than developers. It's not that the developers are lying to you, it's that making software is complex and requires multiple stages of planning.

If you don't plan you'll always overshoot the deadline, oftentimes by a lot. That's if you're lucky. If you're unlucky, your shit will never get done. Or will get done when you don't need it anymore.

You have just to find someone who knows that time equals money, and every wasted hour is wasted money. Try to find programmer who works as team leader. All the planning is based on available resources and costs. The are asking yourselves: how much money(time) will cost coding this module? Which one solution is more profitable (can be done in less time)? How to make this thing cheaper in later development (take less time to expand)?
If you want to have a project done in professional way, you must find someone who knows how to plan projects. If you are hiring lowest programmer in corporate grade, you are just wasting your money.

Yeah. Make him angry and leave you with half finished project, or disappear with your money.


If you want to have your projects needed in professional way, in time, you have to find a programmer and work with him regularly and in the best case, full-time. If a programmer know you will always have work for him, he will try to not disappoint you, because you are his source of income.

Try to have a good contact with your programmer. In my case, I work with a lot more pleasure for people I consider as my friends, with which I can laugh, talk about many non-work related topics. This reduces stress which is the greatest productivity killer and creating a good mood, which makes productivity better.

Also, you have to pay your programmer fairly. Programmers works for money... so what motivates them the best? They will always focus the best on high-salary projects and for people who pay them a lot. If you are paying programmer shit money, you will always have the lowest priority for him.

In summary: treat your programmer as a valuable person for your business. If you find a good programmer, never let him go and make him your best friend, not an enemy.

Programming is hard to estimate. I don't do work for other people, but it always takes me significantly longer than I expect to finish anything programming related for my company.

That's why there is need to add some extra time when you estimate a project.

Correct.

I would prefer to have a programmer tell me it will take a month to complete, even if they think it would take them 2-3 week. That way there is a week for the "just in case shit happens" with granny or whatever. Then if you deliver early, I think you're a champ versus blowing the deadline and over-promising/under delivering shit.

Sure. I am never happy about it taking a month. But when I have that rapport with repeat business developers, I just bite my tongue and know that at least I will be happy with the end result, even if I have to wait 2-3 weeks to get it scheduled, and another month for it to be delivered.

That said, I find programmers much easier to work with than designers. You can have a stable of 2-5 programmers, and by contrast you will need 2-3 times more designers in your contact/bids spreadsheet to throw out bids too.

Same here. It's like the old home-improvement rule of thumb: how ever long you think it's gonna take, double it.

No epics, no themes. No breakdown of tasks and clear understanding of what each module or section should really contain. Lack of an intial Product requirement document. No user stories for each part of the deliverable. Lack of review of previous estimations and subsequent adjustments. No peer reviews of code. Insufficient guidance, probably allowed too much leeway in defintion of critical business requirements. Feature creep by stakeholders and the ever present developer assumption of what was asked for was wrong and so what should be developed is. No wireframes, lack of user voice definitions detailing the objectives.

Primarily a problem experienced with solo and small developer teams that have been allowed to define and deliver to their own timetables and designs.

Also if it is a defined deadline, detail, require and follow up on intermediate milestones. Maintain a daily RAG status (Red, Amber, Green) of each part of the job and also upkeep a RAID log. (Risk, Assumptions, Issues , Dependency) I've run two development teams side by side of 8 members each who were both required to attend 10 minute meetings every single morning to define what they did yesterday, what they will be doing today and what problems or holdbacks are current. It's part of the agile methodology and can work with either 1 member or 20. Also maintain a burn down chart based on initial estimates of each sub-task to identify exactly whenever any part of the process is slipping and address.

Ended up on occasions with delivery ahead of schedule , which was then addressed as the estimates were then still wrong (in a good way) and the estimation process fine tuned so that when it was supposed to be delivered, it was.

Kind of treated it like it was a real job ;)

I would wager that the bulk of those in adult don't understand what business requirements are, nor have the capability to write them. The people who deal with "projects" are either owners that have a waterfall mentality and don't know how to function in an agile environment, or designers & developers that don't have any business experience. The "Hand-Shake" deals that happen in adult probably account for 98% of the projects, with little to no documents to back them up. So it doesn't surprise me that there are so many issues involving process when it comes to deliverables.

This is not the designer / developers fault, it is both parties who are responsible for handling communication and creating a productive business cycle.

How long will it take to create this thing from scratch, just best guess.

i did some android work for a fake-nic , I mean client here at GFY. he got mad because I wanted details about the application in writing. :( ... i'm such an ass wod

I told my last job it would take 3 days.
He shot back with, no way it should only take 2 hours.

It took 3 days, I got fired.

:1orglaugh

This is usually a designer problem in my experience. Usually the uncle has died, the aunt is sick or their hdd burned with all the work on :pimp

They live in dog years; plus there is a high amount of family deaths in that niche. And as Nicky said, most designers are the same. Hard to find a good one like Deej.

Programming is unpredictable, in your head you never imagine the problems that can come up. I know projects always take about double or three times what I imagine they will. But some guys, they take 4 or 5 times what they think. So you have to know your own personal ratio of "think" to "actual". But if you tell the client actual they'll never hire you as someone else will tell them "think" and clients love to be told it'll be done tomorrow for 10 cents and be great.

Remember in programming the rule:

1. Good
2. Cheap
3. Fast

Pick any two.

So true.

Actually, I have found the longest delays are usually something they want to add to make it better. But that usually leads to no delivery at all, so not something I like to hear.

This is result of non-iterative, non-incremental approach.
Working software should be released and updated in short periods of time and any improvements/additional features should be added to working software, not to software that is still not working.

A client should get a working software as soon as possible and then a programmer should improving it in iterative way, as agile rules says.

The biggest problem i have is when working with freelancer.com the projects are always late and never done correctly, since i have started using gfy for designer, writer, coder i have found much better results.

Never pay up-front, cause they wont have an incentive to finish the job.

I ended up working as a developer for a branch of the local government. I'm an extremely fast worker, and when I'm left alone I can build most major systems by myself in about 3 months. Unfortunately, my work environment suffered from a major lack of committment to deadlines by both sides of the fence and eventually you just learned that estimates were ignored, deadlines didn't matter, users wouldn't sign off on design documents and you worked on whatever made you happy that day. Since the government was paying you there was no sense of market urgency to have something done on time, and frequently we would finish projects on time only to learn that the users, who were in such dire need of said project, no longer wanted it, or didn't have the time to implement it.

When I started doing side jobs in the real world I discovered that people who don't have an IT background don't know the first thing about how to define a project. My initial quotes were 6-pages long detailing the pages/screens required and estimated time to create each section (with padding to handle possible problems). The clients didn't even bother to read or try to understand the quotes and were really only interested in the bottom line. They couldn't conceptualize the end result (or even what they wanted) until they saw something tangible. I stopped writing detailed quotes and just made best-guesses time-wise and dealt with scope creep as best I could.

In the beginning it worked great but as I got higher and higher in demand projects started colliding. A user would hire me and say "we need this in September, we'll talk to you in June to get the ball rolling". While I was waiting for June to come around I'd get picked up for a few small projects and life would be good, but I'd forget about the first guy and August would come and then I'd remember that the client hasn't even contacted me yet. So I'd contact them and they'd say "Oh yeah, we still need this for September 1st...I'll see if I can get that data you needed for you".

Then came a relationship and a couple of children. The babies came mid-project and suddenly all my "free" time had to be devoted to my partner and kids (personally I'd prefer programming). This has totally killed it for me and I can no longer take on additional projects despite needing the money. I have to double- and triple-dip just to stay on top of things. I will confess to being unprepared for how draining my time vampire family ended up being.

Despite all that, I still want to deliver a better product than what the client is expecting and I want them to be happy. They just have to know that unless they are hiring me full time they aren't going to get it tomorrow.