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Barry-xlovecam 09-09-2012 11:37 AM

Shit Robme flip flops again
 


Quote:

?I say we?re going to replace Obamacare, and I?m replacing it with my own plan,? Romney said. ?And even in Massachusetts, when I was governor, our plan there deals with preexisting conditions and with young people.?
http://bostonglobe.com/news/politics...XyN/story.html
Quote:

"Romney: Insurance companies should be allowed to deny coverage for pre-existing conditions

He also refused to back down from his opposition to the law?s ban on health care companies denying coverage to patients with pre-existing conditions."

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012...-coverage-plan
Quote:

" Pre-Existing Condition Insurance Plan: Massachusetts

Eligible residents of Massachusetts can apply for coverage through the Pre-Existing Condition Insurance Plan program run by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services."
http://www.healthcare.gov/law/featur...e-plan/ma.html
Quote:

"The most disconcerting part about Romney?s rejection of health insurance for those with preexisting conditions is that his position, at least as he outlined it on Leno, is not only factually unfounded, but also made specifically to pander to an increasingly conservative Republican base.

With the Republican presidential nomination still up in the air, Romney has been attempting to shift his image more to the right. However, in doing so, he has alienated moderates and the nearly 80 percent of Americans who believe that insurance companies should provide coverage to everyone, including those with preexisting conditions, according to a 2011 poll. "

http://www.studlife.com/forum/staff-...tts-condition/
The American people are going to through this shit-heel under the bus and rightfully so. Or call him a bitch -- he changed his mind again ...

2MuchMark 09-09-2012 12:43 PM

old news.

I don't understand why anyone would trust Mitt Romney to be President.

SmutHammer 09-09-2012 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ********** (Post 19178914)
old news.

I don't understand why anyone would trust Mitt Romney to be President.

It's all in choosing who you personally feel is the lesser evil, and who you think will do a better job running this country.

BFT3K 09-09-2012 08:03 PM

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...94682953_n.jpg

GrantMercury 09-09-2012 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam (Post 19178826)

The American people are going to through this shit-heel under the bus and rightfully so. Or call him a bitch -- he changed his mind again ...

Willard is thoroughly horrible - and yet he's the best the scummy GOP had to offer.

Gingrich?
Santorum?
Bachman?

All EVEN WORSE than Mittens.

Obama 2012.

SmutHammer 09-09-2012 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantMercury (Post 19179475)
Willard is thoroughly horrible - and yet he's the best the scummy GOP had to offer.

Gingrich?
Santorum?
Bachman?

All EVEN WORSE than Mittens.

Obama 2012.

I'm guessing you collect food stamps? More Americans right now are collecting food stamps than ever before.

Rochard 09-09-2012 09:42 PM

What I don't understand is how Romney passed a healthcare bill when he was governor that seems very similar to what was just passed nationwide. I'm not saying what we passed is perfect - bills never are - but something is better than nothing. I have a friend of mine who is paying a ton of money for healthcare and he cannot switch because of pre existing conditions. Now he can.

What was best was that convention they had in Hawaii a few years ago. I think it was a Republican thing, about the same time Obamacare passed. They (I think it was John Stewart) asked if they knew of a state where that has mandatory healthcare state wide, and all of them replied there is no such state. What no one seems to know is that Hawaii does in fact have such healthcare - where it's required by employers.

SmutHammer 09-09-2012 09:58 PM

The bad out weighs the good in Obama care... The inserts killed it..

Paul Markham 09-10-2012 12:22 AM

Make it law to pay for health care out of a % of your income. So everyone from the day they start work is covered. For people who can't work for what ever reason, make the care provided include those who can't work. Then pass a law to make the insurance companies non profitable.

Better still, look to other countries for the best models to see what works.

Health care in the hands of big business is flawed from the start. End of .......

_Richard_ 09-10-2012 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Hammer (Post 19179498)
The bad out weighs the good in Obama care... The inserts killed it..

it seems, unfortunately, that was the only way it was passed

hopefully the US as a nation fixes those inserts the old fashioned way

CurrentlySober 09-10-2012 12:30 AM

i hate flip flops...

i prefer proper shoes....

Freaky_Akula 09-10-2012 04:44 AM

Obama was Bush 2.0 and Romney will be Obama 2.0.

Tom_PM 09-10-2012 07:40 AM

What's bad about "Obamacare" again? The lower insurance prices? The inability to be denied for pre-existing conditions? The kids 19 to 25 allowed to be covered by mom and dad? The closing of the doughnut hole for senior prescription drugs? Or is it that unknown fear of other savings and advantages coming in the future that we should be afraid of according to foxnews or rush limbaugh?

Robbie 09-10-2012 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PR_Tom (Post 19179977)
What's bad about "Obamacare" again? The lower insurance prices?

My insurance went up again this year. :(

BUT...we did get a $300 refund check from them thanks to the stipulation in ObamaCare that limits the insurance companies profit percentage. :)

But at $800 a month for me, my wife, and kid...it's still pretty damn expensive.

Has anybody here had their insurance costs go down yet?

BlackCrayon 09-10-2012 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 19179990)
My insurance went up again this year. :(

BUT...we did get a $300 refund check from them thanks to the stipulation in ObamaCare that limits the insurance companies profit percentage. :)

But at $800 a month for me, my wife, and kid...it's still pretty damn expensive.

Has anybody here had their insurance costs go down yet?

highway robbery. health insurance is such a joke. they want you to pay pay pay then when you actually have to use it they grill the shit out of you doing all they can to deny it.

Tom_PM 09-10-2012 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 19179990)
My insurance went up again this year. :(

BUT...we did get a $300 refund check from them thanks to the stipulation in ObamaCare that limits the insurance companies profit percentage. :)

But at $800 a month for me, my wife, and kid...it's still pretty damn expensive.

Has anybody here had their insurance costs go down yet?

Yours went down by $300. If not, could you please clairify?

Paul Markham 09-10-2012 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon (Post 19180001)
highway robbery. health insurance is such a joke. they want you to pay pay pay then when you actually have to use it they grill the shit out of you doing all they can to deny it.

And the moment they can get out of paying they do.

Phoenix 09-10-2012 10:58 AM

the only reason you bring in a romney is to cut money spending....typically he destroys a company and makes money doing so. Will he be able to do the same for something the size of the USA? As well as keep the USA intact and functioning? I do not think so. I haven't seen or heard of any solid plans from them, just smiling and waving.

Tom_PM 09-10-2012 11:01 AM

Ryan and Romney specifically refuse to lay out their tax plan as recently as yesterday on ABC's "This Week". Instead of saying what they plan, Ryan claimed they want to do it in a public way.. to which the host replied that's why I'm asking you here on a public program! lmfao..

I think they might be jerks..

Barry-xlovecam 09-10-2012 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PR_Tom (Post 19180386)
Ryan and Romney specifically refuse to lay out their tax plan as recently as yesterday on ABC's "This Week". Instead of saying what they plan, Ryan claimed they want to do it in a public way.. to which the host replied that's why I'm asking you here on a public program! lmfao..

I think they might be jerks..

Don't worry -- they have a plan. It is tricking down to you as I type :upsidedow

Robbie 09-10-2012 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PR_Tom (Post 19180030)
Yours went down by $300. If not, could you please clairify?

My monthly bill is still at $800

I'm talking about an actual reduction n premiums (which is what was said would happen)

GetSCORECash 09-10-2012 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 19179990)
Has anybody here had their insurance costs go down yet?

No, and I pay more, so what form do I need to fill to get $300 back?

Barry-xlovecam 09-10-2012 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham (Post 19180357)
And the moment they can get out of paying they do.


Not true, I was able to get insurance through the state that is federally subsidized high risk for preexisting conditions they have paid out 95% of the time -- I had to supplement some surgical and Cardiologist bills with deductibles. My insurance costs in total are over $1,000 a month for just me ... I may have to pay $100K over the next 8 years to get to Medicare age -- better than dead I guess ...

People suggested I go on disability and let the government pay my medical expense but I have always paid my way and paid taxes for damn near 40 years now.

And Paul, treating cancers in the US health system might cost upwards of $250K in a short time -- sort of hard to write checks in that amount.

Barry-xlovecam 09-10-2012 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 19180416)
My monthly bill is still at $800

I'm talking about an actual reduction n premiums (which is what was said would happen)

The Insurer reduced my premiums $70 a month ($840/ yr) six months ago.

Tom_PM 09-10-2012 11:39 AM

Without Obama care, would they have kept the 300 AND increased your premiums? You betcha. :)

Robbie 09-10-2012 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GetSCORECash (Post 19180452)
No, and I pay more, so what form do I need to fill to get $300 back?

I didn't fill out any form. It's part of ObamaCare that says insurance companies can only make a certain amount of profit off of your premium payments.

But as I said...the big promise of ObamaCare was that it would lower our insurance rates. Since it hasn't completely kicked in yet, that may turn out to be true in 2014.
But I'll be damned if the insurance companies aren't raising the hell out of them right now. :(

Freaky_Akula 09-11-2012 05:52 AM

http://i.imgur.com/3BmeX.jpg

Robbie 09-11-2012 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam (Post 19180484)
The Insurer reduced my premiums $70 a month ($840/ yr) six months ago.

Wow! That's pretty damn good!

Who are you with? I'm with Blue Cross/Blue Shield and it has only gone up and up over the last 4 years.

V_RocKs 09-11-2012 10:55 AM

His flip flops are the king of the beach

Barry-xlovecam 09-11-2012 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 19182604)
Wow! That's pretty damn good!

Who are you with? I'm with Blue Cross/Blue Shield and it has only gone up and up over the last 4 years.

A Michigan state run federally subsidised preexsting high risk program. You have to be a basket case to apply -- it is up to $13,900 per person annually. Very expensive but no private insurer would cover me.

Maybe, in 2014 the premiums will go down some with federal subsidies but those will be income determined -- we'll see ... No free ride that is for sure. It is administered by Physician's Health Plan for non-profit hospital that contracted with the state.

Robbie 09-11-2012 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam (Post 19182691)
A Michigan state run federally subsidised preexsting high risk program. You have to be a basket case to apply -- it is up to $13,900 per person annually. Very expensive but no private insurer would cover me.

Maybe, in 2014 the premiums will go down some with federal subsidies but those will be income determined -- we'll see ... No free ride that is for sure. It is administered by Physician's Health Plan for non-profit hospital that contracted with the state.

Damn, your case is not the average one out there. Hope you're doing okay...

I'm hoping to see my premiums come down when the whole thing kicks in. Right now, the fact that it keeps going up kinda suggests that one of the deals that was cut in the backroom was to allow the insurance companies to get one more good final price-gouge in before 2014 (I think that's when the whole Health Care plan is supposed to finally be implemented)

What I personally would have like to have seen would have been Obama and the then Dem controlled House & Senate growing a set and making it a real single pay system.
But that was just a pipe dream. If it had happened, the health insurance industry would have been immediately put out of business. And they have too much money and lobbyists for anybody in Congress to be able to do that.

GrantMercury 09-11-2012 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Hammer (Post 19179485)
I'm guessing you collect food stamps? More Americans right now are collecting food stamps than ever before.

No, I don't collect food stamps, and after 3.5 years in office, if you blame Obama for the number of poor people in America, you're simply a dumbass.

PornoMonster 09-11-2012 01:59 PM

If Either side can not make a change based on new information then that is worse....

IE what if we found out before we went there were no WMD, nope not going to flip flop.

Now if it is Flip Flop as in two faced then yes that is BAD. If it is a Real Change of Mind, then more power to the right or the left!!!

SmutHammer 09-11-2012 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PR_Tom (Post 19179977)
What's bad about "Obamacare" again? The lower insurance prices? The inability to be denied for pre-existing conditions? The kids 19 to 25 allowed to be covered by mom and dad? The closing of the doughnut hole for senior prescription drugs? Or is it that unknown fear of other savings and advantages coming in the future that we should be afraid of according to foxnews or rush limbaugh?

Good for you, but it fucks everyone who works in health care.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantMercury (Post 19183048)
No, I don't collect food stamps, and after 3.5 years in office, if you blame Obama for the number of poor people in America, you're simply a dumbass.

I blame him for enabling those people and not put something in action to reduce the people on welfare.

Barry-xlovecam 09-11-2012 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 19183042)
Damn, your case is not the average one out there. Hope you're doing okay...



What I personally would have like to have seen would have been Obama and the then Dem controlled House & Senate growing a set and making it a real single pay system.
But that was just a pipe dream.

Thanks, yes for now anyway.

A single payer system is probably 20 years off. The high cost of healthcare -- and it is just not the wage costs but the research costs and infrastructure costs.

The rapidly developing field of nano-medicine has much promise. http://phys.org/nanotech-news/bio-medicine/ governmental funding in this basic research may be what can save our economy -- for certain extend our survival 10's of years.

It is all a matter of where we decide to spend our treasure and time on. So far, this century is off to a rocky start ... Being able to buy a new shiny toy is nice but to live better and in health is a nobler goal, but can be a costly one.

Robbie 09-11-2012 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam (Post 19183200)
I
It is all a matter of where we decide to spend our treasure and time on.

Apparently our govt. (not "we", because I don't believe either of us would choose this) has decided to spend our treasure on the military.

The chart on this page says it all:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...y_expenditures

And no...there is no Hitler with a giant war machine that we have to contend with.
Just crazy Muslims who want to blow shit up here and there. Apparently it takes 1.5 TRILLION dollars a year to deal with that. :(

crockett 09-11-2012 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ********** (Post 19178914)
old news.

I don't understand why anyone would trust Mitt Romney to be President.


I'll give you 1 simple word.. Republicans..

It doesn't matter what he says or does they will vote for him because he's not a Democrat.

Much the same as Democrats would vote for any Democrat because he's not a Republican but most Democrats are more liberal (oh dirty word) and are more open to voting for people outside their party if it seems like a sensible vote.

Republican on other hand are like the Taliban and it's always their way or no way.

arock10 09-11-2012 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Hammer (Post 19183084)
Good for you, but it fucks everyone who works in health care.


I blame him for enabling those people and not put something in action to reduce the people on welfare.

Does your entire family work in healthcare? You keep bringing this up. I'm assuming you are ok with scaling back the size of government even though this will cost government jobs?

As for welfare, this is small money given to poorer people. Sure there is some abuse.... But maybe take a look at corporate welfare first since that is just giving huge money to wealthy corporations

GrantMercury 09-11-2012 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Hammer (Post 19183084)
I blame him for enabling those people and not put something in action to reduce the people on welfare.

What would you have him do? How does one go about that?

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/201...ear/?mobile=nc


Republicans love to see people on food stamps - that way they can bitch without doing anything to solve the problem. What has the GOP done to reduce the number of people on food stamps (which is different from welfare, btw)? They have done NOTHING. Since Obama set foot in the White House, those fuckers have done everything they can to hold back the recovery.

PornoMonster 09-11-2012 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 19179990)
My insurance went up again this year. :(

BUT...we did get a $300 refund check from them thanks to the stipulation in ObamaCare that limits the insurance companies profit percentage. :)

But at $800 a month for me, my wife, and kid...it's still pretty damn expensive.

Has anybody here had their insurance costs go down yet?

NOPE, mine went up and my company I work for is talking about dropping everyone.

I have a few friends who will be FORCED to get coverage even though they do not go to the doctor, and for dental they ask and pay Cash prices.

I Do Love the little things in the health care the now Mitt says he will keep. ALL mentioned above!

What is going to suck is the Price tag that we will have to start paying on soon, and then when it gets turned over to the states to foot the bill, ouch!

PornoMonster 09-11-2012 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arock10 (Post 19183353)
Does your entire family work in healthcare? You keep bringing this up. I'm assuming you are ok with scaling back the size of government even though this will cost government jobs?

As for welfare, this is small money given to poorer people. Sure there is some abuse.... But maybe take a look at corporate welfare first since that is just giving huge money to wealthy corporations

You can scale back the Gov but cutting what some people are paid to do almost nothing...
But no like everything they will just cut people and say oh look at what the other side made us do or whatever... It is all stupid!

Robbie 09-11-2012 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PornoMonster (Post 19183751)
NOPE, mine went up and my company I work for is talking about dropping everyone.

That's the most common story I hear. Barry-xlovecam is the first guy I've had tell me that their insurance rate has went down. I don't even know anybody whose rate at least stayed the same...everybody I know has went up.

Paul Markham 09-12-2012 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 19183042)
What I personally would have like to have seen would have been Obama and the then Dem controlled House & Senate growing a set and making it a real single pay system.

But that was just a pipe dream. If it had happened, the health insurance industry would have been immediately put out of business. And they have too much money and lobbyists for anybody in Congress to be able to do that.

Agreed it works so much better and cheaper. Then those who can afford the extra luxury of a room can pay for it. To the Hospital which is Government owed. Not owned by a bunch of Wall Street banker types.

Barry-xlovecam 09-12-2012 05:25 AM

I am probably the exception to the rule, but when I read articles like this; Health insurance costs up 97% in 10 years: report http://articles.marketwatch.com/2012...alth-insurance there is a serious problem ...

The growth in healthcare costs has declined to 4% in the past year but this chart reflects the rise in government taxpayer paid healthcare costs being slowed down by the recent laws.
http://ei.marketwatch.com/Multimedia...e-002128049ad6
The cost of healthcare insurance is effecting the average workers standard of living. In my case; its cost would buy me a new luxury auto, etc.

Five of my cousins are doctors (3 medical doctors (specialists), 2 PhDs) and I am aware of their cost of schooling and in practice their cost of malpractice insurance and other ''business expenses.'' Still, they make bank but their educations cost astronomical amounts over the 13 to 15 years of college and internships, residencies, etc.

Point of the story, if you want to see a decrease in healthcare costs build more medical schools and train more qualified medical professionals. Right now, the supply and demand situation is manipulated to limit availability and support high costs.

Access to affordable healthcare is not a guaranteed constitutional right but in a developed country like the United States it is a human right.

arock10 09-12-2012 07:04 AM

You anti healthcare law guys know that health insurance premiums are going up at a rapid pace with or without the new healthcare law... This is not a new thing

Robbie 09-12-2012 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arock10 (Post 19184454)
You anti healthcare law guys know that health insurance premiums are going up at a rapid pace with or without the new healthcare law... This is not a new thing

You're right about that. And a lot of it has to do with govt. policies and deals. Like the deal struck with the pharmaceutical companies and the govt. actively trying to stop people from buying their meds from Canada or Mexico.

Instead of a Health "Insurance" program...we needed to stop the price gouging, put in tort reform (hundreds of billions of dollars are WASTED every year on unnecessary tests because if a doctor is sued for malpractice and didn't order a particular test...the malpractice insurance won't cover them)

I'm not sure that ObamaCare actually does ANYTHING about actual health costs. It just tries to make us all get insurance in the theory that having millions more paying customers will have insurance rates go down.

I could be wrong about that though. The ObamaCare plan is so many pages, I don't think anybody knows what's in it. lol


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