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-   -   Why Are American Health Care Costs So High? (https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=1121368)

tony286 09-17-2013 05:18 AM
Why Are American Health Care Costs So High?
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSjGouBmo0M
Very interesting

galleryseek 09-17-2013 05:49 AM
Healthcare actually used to be extremely affordable in the early 1900's. A day's wage would pay for a year's worth of healthcare coverage.

What happened? Government "solved" that healthcare crisis:

crockett 09-17-2013 05:59 AM
Because the govt doesn't regulate it allowing hospitals and drug manufacturers to charge what they want. Add to that the insurance lobby also tries to keep the costs high, to force people to pay for insurance at ridiculous prices. Meanwhile the insurance companies only pay a small fraction of what hospitals or drug manufacturers charge yet the victim pays the deductible on the full price..

I call them victims because people in the US are being defrauded when it comes to the medical and insurance industries.

slapass 09-17-2013 06:16 AM
Any time the customer and the provider are that removed from each other, you get price inflation.

galleryseek 09-17-2013 06:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by crockett (Post 19802582)
Because the govt doesn't regulate it allowing hospitals and drug manufacturers to charge what they want.
You must not have watched the video above. ;) The problem is actually the opposite. As with any other large industry, you have major corporate players that are able to utilize the power of government legislation (via lobbyists) to essentially monopolize their industry by squashing out competition.. either by (a) extremely high costs to enter the market and/or (b) literally making it illegal. This results in low to no competition, which allows them to charge high prices.

It's a classic case of crony-capitalism. The politicians, they get paid big to introduce laws which benefit the corporatists. It's a, "I jerk you off, you jerk me off" sort of deal. The solution? Get rid of the group that's able to rule us.

crockett 09-17-2013 06:39 AM
When I say they don't regulate it, I mean the prices. The drug and insurance companies are able to keep the prices artificially high. Hence it's not a free markets deciding the price.

Rochard 09-17-2013 06:43 AM
Healthcare is a joke in the US.

Years ago my daughter broke her leg, and we didn't have health insurance. Money wasn't an issue, but nothing is more important than a child's house, and we had to see an orthopedic surgeon (or something along those lines). They told me the price of the visit - thousands of dollars - and then asked if we had insurance. "Nope". Then they told us the "non insurance price" - which was $700. WTF?

We had another similar issue this past month. We have insurance, and one dentist told us a root canal would cost $1300 (that's with our insurance!). There was a problem with the appointment and they sent us to another dentist, who charged us $345. WTF again?

bronco67 09-17-2013 06:51 AM
Watch this...makes you pissed.

http://video.msnbc.msn.com/all-in-/52851971#52851971

pornguy 09-17-2013 07:12 AM
Most of us call the high costs of Medical in the US Capitalism.

galleryseek 09-17-2013 07:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pornguy (Post 19802702)
Most of us call the high costs of Medical in the US Capitalism.
Crony-Capitalism *

Capitalism is voluntary exchange between two parties. It becomes corrupted however in a statist society.

slapass 09-17-2013 07:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pornguy (Post 19802702)
Most of us call the high costs of Medical in the US Capitalism.
A state mandated system for most us where our employer is forced to pay for it?

Barry-xlovecam 09-17-2013 07:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by galleryseek (Post 19802570)
Healthcare actually used to be extremely affordable in the early 1900's. A day's wage would pay for a year's worth of healthcare coverage.

What happened?
They stopped using leaches?

Do you have any idea how abysmal life was back then? My Grandfather was an 11 year old immigrant in New York City -- he told the the stories of live in those times :Oh crap

galleryseek 09-17-2013 07:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam (Post 19802725)
They stopped using leaches?

Do you have any idea how abysmal life was back then? My Grandfather was an 11 year old immigrant in New York City -- he told the the stories of live in those times :Oh crap
Uhm, that's due to a lack of technology and medical advancement. The economics that applied then are universal.

96ukssob 09-17-2013 07:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by crockett (Post 19802582)
Because the govt doesn't regulate it allowing hospitals and drug manufacturers to charge what they want. Add to that the insurance lobby also tries to keep the costs high, to force people to pay for insurance at ridiculous prices. Meanwhile the insurance companies only pay a small fraction of what hospitals or drug manufacturers charge yet the victim pays the deductible on the full price..

I call them victims because people in the US are being defrauded when it comes to the medical and insurance industries.
I read a really good article a little while back saying basically this.

Big pharma's control the market and cause insurance premiums to go through the roof. Have you ever bought a Rx and had it go to an OTC? I did a few years back with allergy medicine. Was $40 co-pay then when it went OTC, was $18 at Walmart... FUCKING GREED!!!! :mad:

However, on the flip side of things the insurance for physicians is outrageous, mainly due to the cost of medial malpractice insurance. Being a sue-happy nation, we drove up the cost ourselves, which is why we can't afford to go to the doctor or hospital without insurance.

At the end of the day, you have the big pharma's lining the pockets of our politicians and the insurance companies putting those 16oz filet's on their table for dinner. Nothing will change...

Barry-xlovecam 09-17-2013 08:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by galleryseek (Post 19802737)
Uhm, that's due to a lack of technology and medical advancement. The economics that applied then are universal.
"technology and medical advancement" cost money.

The economics of 1900 are irrelevant in 2013 -- it is not the same world today.

http://info.blockimaging.com/bid/926...nd-Price-Guide

Then the cost of people trained to use MRI Imaging

Just one example ...

2013 Chevrolet impala $25,860 Base MSRP
1908 Model T $950

Quote:
The average life expectancy was 47 years.

Only 14 percent of the homes had a bathtub.

Only 8 percent of the homes had a telephone.

There were only 8,000 cars and only 144 miles of paved roads.

The maximum speed limit in most cities was 10 mph.

The tallest structure in the world was the Eiffel Tower !

The average wage in 1908 was 22 cents per hour.

The average worker made between $200 and $400 per year .

A competent accountant could expect to earn $2000 per year, a dentist $2,500 per year, a veterinarian between $1,500 and $4,000 per year, and a mechanical engineer about $5,000 per year.

More than 95 percent of all births took place at HOME.

Ninety percent of all doctors had NO COLLEGE EDUCATION! Instead, they attended so-called medical schools, many of which were condemned in the press, AND they were listed by the government as 'substandard.'

http://www.barefootsworld.net/history_lesson_1908.html
One of my uncles died at 13 in 1930 from "barber's itch" a sort of boils that penicillin stops the infection that killed him.

Be glad today is not then ...

galleryseek 09-17-2013 08:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam (Post 19802762)
"technology and medical advancement" cost money.
I know. Are you insinuating people didn't make money back then? Are you insinuating technology and medical advancement wouldn't occur without the government? If you are, you're wrong. Government is generally one of the greatest inhibitors of advancement. Where there's a lack of competition in a marketplace, advancement / improvement aren't a necessity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam (Post 19802762)
The economics of 1900 are irrelevant in 2013 -- it is not the same world today.
Basic economic principles are timeless. Supply and demand for instance doesn't only apply "some time." It's fact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam (Post 19802762)
http://info.blockimaging.com/bid/926...nd-Price-Guide

Then the cost of people trained to use MRI Imaging

Just one example ...

2013 Chevrolet impala $25,860 Base MSRP
1908 Model T $950
Lol. Do you know why there's such a significant increase in price? It's because of our fiat money system, the federal reserve printing presses, minimum wage laws, etc.. It's not because of this absurd idea that because things are more advanced, they must cost more, or whatever you're getting at.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam (Post 19802762)
One of my uncles died at 13 in 1930 from "barber's itch" a sort of boils that penicillin stops the infection that killed him.

Be glad today is not then ...
Again, the lack of medical advancement has nothing to do with government intervention.

RandyRandy 09-17-2013 08:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pornguy (Post 19802702)
Most of us call the high costs of Medical in the US Capitalism.
And that's why medical care is so expensive in the US. It's a business first, and a service second.

I had a doctor make a house call (remember those?) in Bogota, Colombia last month. Gave me an injection and 4 Vicodins - total cost: $25. When I needed a follow-up injection, I went to the corner pharmacy - pharmacists there can do many things that only a doctor can in the US. He gave me a choice of six different injections (steriodal for inflamation) at a range of 75 cents - $6! Being the baller I am, I went with the $6 injection. And the pharmacist gave me his card and said they do free house calls.

Why? Because in Colombia, medical care is a service first, not a business.

Magnetron 09-17-2013 09:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyRandy (Post 19802848)
And that's why medical care is so expensive in the US. It's a business first, and a service second.

I had a doctor make a house call (remember those?) in Bogota, Colombia last month. Gave me an injection and 4 Vicodins - total cost: $25. When I needed a follow-up injection, I went to the corner pharmacy - pharmacists there can do many things that only a doctor can in the US. He gave me a choice of six different injections (steriodal for inflamation) at a range of 75 cents - $6! Being the baller I am, I went with the $6 injection. And the pharmacist gave me his card and said they do free house calls.

Why? Because in Colombia, medical care is a service first, not a business.
A real baller takes 3 aspirin and injects himself with $10 bovine grade penicillain from Farm & Fleet.

Varius 09-17-2013 09:55 AM
I got a lovely $12,000 bill for 2 nights in the hospital on basic IV here in NYC last week.

(I got Rhabdo from tearing my quads at wrestling).

I hadn't gotten insurance yet was was weighing the various options for non-residents.

However, being smart and all, I told them that they should definitely give me a discount for allowing myself to be used as a case study for their student doctors (it was at NYU teaching hospital / urgent care - and I had at least 8 student doctors studying me).

They cut my bill down by 75% to $3000.

Then I told them if I pay it up front in cash, what can they do. They can take another 20% off, bringing it to $2400.

So from $12000 -> $2400 in 5 minutes without insurance, isn't that bad.

However, I don't find it cool, that while being treated, they refused to tell me any costs at all, even ballpark. They said often if they tell patients, the patients leave and if they die the hospital is liable.

crockett 09-17-2013 10:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pornguy (Post 19802702)
Most of us call the high costs of Medical in the US Capitalism.
It's not capitalism or a free market when it's rigged by lobbyist.

Rochard 09-17-2013 10:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Varius (Post 19802955)
I got a lovely $12,000 bill for 2 nights in the hospital on basic IV here in NYC last week.

(I got Rhabdo from tearing my quads at wrestling).

I hadn't gotten insurance yet was was weighing the various options for non-residents.

However, being smart and all, I told them that they should definitely give me a discount for allowing myself to be used as a case study for their student doctors (it was at NYU teaching hospital / urgent care - and I had at least 8 student doctors studying me).

They cut my bill down by 75% to $3000.

Then I told them if I pay it up front in cash, what can they do. They can take another 20% off, bringing it to $2400.

So from $12000 -> $2400 in 5 minutes without insurance, isn't that bad.

However, I don't find it cool, that while being treated, they refused to tell me any costs at all, even ballpark. They said often if they tell patients, the patients leave and if they die the hospital is liable.

And this is a huge part of the problem - the people who are insured are paying for the people who aren't insured. There are two rates - one for those insured, one for those not insured.

Barry-xlovecam 09-17-2013 11:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by galleryseek (Post 19802808)
I know. Are you insinuating people bla bla
I'm insinuating that I can afford my life.

And I am older that the average man in 1908 was.

So, what is the problem?

Barry-xlovecam 09-17-2013 11:19 AM
Oh! I get it: This is just whining about the government and the fallacy it causes the high costs of medical care when you don't have the insurance to pay the inflated price.

Only because there are people with private insurance to soak for the costs of your charity discounts do the hospitals agree to your less than costs reimbursements.

The government is at fault for low reimbursements for indigent or Medicaid patients, even reimbursements for Medicare patients.
The private insured patients make up the difference ...

Sure the system is all fucked up here and the above are the real reasons. Albeit some base costs are more than they need be -- a driving part of healthcare costs is malpractice lawsuit abatement and then some salaries are bloated.

But it is easier to blame the Fed, Fiat money, the President, the Congress or the LIZARD people.

_Richard_ 09-17-2013 11:25 AM
with the looming population age crisis.. gonna have to figure out something.

good luck using the 'you're poor and lazy' argument against retired citizens.

Barry-xlovecam 09-17-2013 11:34 AM
Yep, either the whole business is restructured or there will be single payer healthcare in the USA and the taxes that come along with it.

The cost of the taxes will be mitigated by no insurance premiums.

And the gold mine days for medicine may be over. But who will pay for the basic medical research? Generation Y wants to live to 95, can't blame them really.

Good health in old age has always been the human dream but there is a price to be paid to achieve it.

baddog 09-17-2013 11:38 AM
Because big medicine is not about health.

Captain Kawaii 09-17-2013 11:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyRandy (Post 19802848)
And that's why medical care is so expensive in the US. It's a business first, and a service second.

I had a doctor make a house call (remember those?) in Bogota, Colombia last month. Gave me an injection and 4 Vicodins - total cost: $25. When I needed a follow-up injection, I went to the corner pharmacy - pharmacists there can do many things that only a doctor can in the US. He gave me a choice of six different injections (steriodal for inflamation) at a range of 75 cents - $6! Being the baller I am, I went with the $6 injection. And the pharmacist gave me his card and said they do free house calls.

Why? Because in Colombia, medical care is a service first, not a business.
:2 cents: - As it should be. People's lives should not be in the hands of money grubbing turds. Hippocrates had this funny little thing called an "oath."


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