Charlie Hebdo event seen from Paris
 

Hello all,

I am one of the manager behind Affil4You.

Our company is based in Paris 5 mn walking distance from Charlie Hebdo offices. The police officer who was shot dead, died right under the window of one of our developer. I also leave near the place when the young policewoman got shot the following day and my kids got locked in their school during all day. But beside the geographical locations, the attack hit us because the people killed were close to us. Wolinsky (80yo) and Cabu (76yo) were already famous cartoonist when I was a teenage starting having interest in politics and society. I grew with them and have been following their work since then. Charb (Stéphane Charbonnier) was the head of publication at Charlie Hebdo but was also the cartoonist illustrating Mon Quotidien, a daily newspaper for kid. During years we received daily a copy of this newspaper with a funny cartoon of Charb on front page. My kids grew with him. Bernard Maris was a well known economist. He was having a talk slot every Friday morning on France Inter, our public broadcast radio station. For months I have been waking up on Friday with the sound of his voice. And of course Charlie Hebdo and all the cartoons of the team have been displayed on our newsstand for so many time?

Charlie Hebdo was the target of fundamentalists because they reprinted in 2005 the Mahomet?s caricatures originally printed in Denmark by the Jyllands-Posten. When they did this at that time some people did not understand. It seemed to these people, and I was sharing this opinion, that these cartoons were not providing any useful message and that reprint them was not helping a better understanding between people. They explained why they choose to do this and it appeared to me clearly that they could not have done something else : These guys have been born in a time when free speech was not granted, when church, family and institutions were still having strong censorship power. They grew against that system, they had free speech directly coded in their DNA. When the Danish newspaper got threaten by religious forces, they just reacted as they always reacted against censorship. No other reaction could have make sense for them.

However, this team was not standing against the muslin or the Arab community in France or elsewhere. They had a very clear view on the difference between the community we live with and the fundamentalists we fight against. After the controversial publication of a book on this subject two day ago, the main subject of the redaction conference when the shooting occurred was how their cartoon could help fight against the growing islamophobic feeling in France.

All this to explain why this shooting made me so sad, made a lot of us terribly sad. I was at the gathering Place de la Republic the day of the shooting and sadness was clearly bigger than anger. On broadcast we heard so many people struggling not to cry. It seems to me that with them died another piece of hope. For years now we see door being closed, old problems remaining in place and new problems gathering. Let?s just hope that they did not died in vain and that after this we really work on trying to solve problems.

Thank you for reading this long post, See you all with pleasure in LA and LV

Laurent

it's a trap

Stay safe, guys ...

wish you the best.Hope hole situation will be relax very soon

Good read :thumbsup

thank you - i wish some of the idiots on here would read and understand

?!?!

their explanation is very strange...they were specifically asked by the government, that was warned by security agencies, of an imminent and clear danger of a terror attack not just to "free speech coded in DNA" group but to embassies and international schools world wide, so basically to 100-s of innocent people...

so "the only reaction that made any sense to them" was to endanger 100-s of people so they could feel free about printing something that the whole world agress on is: not useful in any way?


and they wanted to help the situation by insulting every muslim believer by drawing allah and making demonstrations happen and ultimately death threats and closing of embassies and schools?

I am not muslim and I do not believe in imaginary firends in the sky...I am not trolling I am genuinely interested in how you see their comic as anything else than adding fuel to an unnecessary fire?

how could they possibly think their cartoon would help fight islamophobia by insulting their religion?

Post a pic of a banana for proof

Laurent, I'm sorry for your loss. Thanks for posting your feelings on the matter.

What he said... thanks for posting, Laurent.

See you in Vegas Laurent. Sorry to hear you guys were so close to the action. Very sad that words and pictures can create such hate and violence.

Nothing needs to be defended. Free Speech is(in most civilized countries), and should be a human right. To be killed because of words and artistic expression is nothing short of barbaric and below the levels of humanity.

I would hope that Charlie Hebdo runs something very controversial and satirical about the event in their first message to the world to show that they are standing strong and that they will not be wavered, regardless of the cowardly acts that happened.

in all fairness...in 2005 the danes first published the completely no-value "cartoons" and as a result 200 people died...

Jyllands-Posten Muhammad cartoons controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

with a precedent of 200 dead people worldwide, after being taken to court for insiting rascism (but later aquitted) after being warned by the government not to post it, because it would potentially endanger 100-s of other people, charlie goes and "artistically expresses" itself?

how humane is that?

I am not defending the terrorists, I am glad they are dead and shot...

but what does endangering 100-s of people have to do with "art" or "free speech" when the message is basically a 3rd grade no value insulting cartoon?

for christs sake the french mag was taken to court after publishing the pics for inciting rascism and unrest...

thanks for the read man, i love paris and france and people there, stay strong! :thumbsup and dont forget to buy next charlie! :winkwink:

The cost of freedom is paid in blood.

Value is determined from within the person viewing.

Why do you feel entitled to declare someone else's expression and creation as "no value"?

The answer to that is: Because you are free to be entitled and make that observation.

To another person, that same piece of expression can be infinitely valuable.

It's your right to see no value. It's also the right of millions of others to see value in it.

ok what was the "value"? you must have a really great reason when you feel 200 dead people were worth it after the danes printed it...do not give me the "its in the eye of the beholder" BS tell me exactly how mocking muhamed gives any sort of value i will give you 100$ by paypal :1orglaugh

remember the 200 dead people whilst you write the very very good reasons...

you cant be serious with this "expression" bullshit right? :1orglaugh

Laugh all you want. You have no argument. 100s of millions of people share my views. Few share yours. I'm not here to argue with Internet invisibles.

:2 cents::thumbsup

no argument...just offering you 100$ for s simple explanation of the value of the cartoons...somebody with something to say would take the 100$...just saying :2 cents:

they did it for their idea of freedom of speech like they did in the past with the church and the pope

http://media.rtl.fr/online/image/201...-la-nabila.bmp

http://s.tf1.fr/mmdia/i/26/0/nabilla...bjnzu_1713.jpg

so freedom of speech is the freedom to insult anybody without having a real reason nobody can explain for 100$?


you seem to think that I do not unerstand freedom of speech and the idiocracy in the fact that some radical shit head thinks you should not print shit...I get this 100%

what I do not get is:

THIS:---------------> 200 people died last time, and its just a SHITTY cartoon...why excercise your "freedom of speech" when your message is second hand toilet paper and last time somebody did it 200 people died? what kind of person does this?

dude if their message was: "torture and killing in the arab world" I would understand 100% it would be a complete outrage...but a cartoon???????

come on man? 200 dead last time it happened and you call this "Freedom of speech"? how about responsibility? what about caring for innocent people who will get caught in the crossifre? shit 5 people are dead already the muslim cop with no gun who got executed just for being there and the 4 hostages from the other attack...

I argue that it was an irresponsible message and would love if somebody could explain why in fact they were not ordinary trolls looking to make a $ with sensationalist shit?

Extortion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We don't live under the shariah

man thats harsh...putting others in danger just to prove a point when 200 people died last time...

yes it is. and if some borders are crossed by it, the real gentlemen just ignore it.unless we talk of course about honour of mother and wife.
where is my 100 $ ?

so they should all cave in and not draw islam jokes anymore? Did you read it correctly? "joke". It are fucking jokes, cartoonists all over the world joke about everything. But islam is off limits in your opinion. Because otherwise you risk getting killed by some animals. Fuck that.

You must think you're talking to someone who "values" 100 dollars as something valuable.

100 dollars wasn't worth the time for me to write this response.

I'll send you an invoice for the other 1245.00.


:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

nevermind

:error

We are actually discussing whether somebody has the right to endanger 100s of people over a practical joke...surreal :2 cents:

Because it`s the very core of free speach. Be able to express yourself whether that be in writing, talk or a drawing. We simply cannot let some fanatics come and dictate what we can and can`t do on such a fundumental building block of western way of life.

If we do when does it stop. It doesn`t. Mouse with a cookie right. Next time it also wants milk and please make sure it`s cold and not past last sales date.
And no, i am not comparing Islam with a mouse :1orglaugh

Maybe its just me...

I would never endanger 100-s of people over some bullshit message and hide behind "freedom of speech" and "art" when in fact the message is pure trolling.

If the message was important like human rights violatoins, murders, torture ect ect then I would fully understand the need to fight to the very end. But what charlie printed is pure troll garbage with no value.

I do not think for one second that the journalists will take responsibility for the 200 dead from the first protests and the 5 dead so far and the 11 "journalists"...They will wrap it in "art" and "free speech" when it was obviously a struggling magazine, that went broke, and came back again.

I hate how people act like the cartoons had any value at all...it was nothing more than desperate losers playing with fire...no "fight for freedom" LOL

Keep up giving in :

http://i.imgur.com/BWfJs0ul.jpg

Kabul 2010's :

http://i.imgur.com/OT1PFw5.jpg

muslims are 1/4 of the human race and only in avghanistan,saudi arabia,yemen and 3-4 other shit bag countries have actual radical islam where some terrible things happen...you are chosing to see islam as you want to see it...this is your right...you are chosing to ignore the daily bombing "christians" do and its concequences and just focus on 2 dissilusioned shit heads in paris...this is also your right...

I can not help but notice how the media is making $$$ on this, how radical islam is gaining popularity with the rising xenofobia that directly results from irreponsible journalism and fear mongering, and how complete and utter irresponsibility that killed 200 people in the danish cartoon demonstrations back in 2005 is being wrapped in "Freedom of speech"...


http://adnanramin.files.wordpress.co.../hijab-nun.jpg

so maybe the problem is that "100s" of live are in danger due to some cartoons, not the cartoons themselves ??? how about this ?:winkwink::winkwink:

Class of 1978. Egypt.

http://i.imgur.com/zyEm22s.jpg

Not a single veil. not one.

Today all veiled. Are you suggesting they all decided to enter nunhood?

Stop being a twat :2 cents:

dude I go diving in egypt, was there 2 years ago :1orglaugh

come on man...travel the world a bit :2 cents::thumbsup

Haha... Good one :thumbsup

I've been an expat almost all my life, worked in some of these countries and followed my dad all over the world as a child. :1orglaugh but I'll remember your advice and go on a diving trip some day...

How could they be taken to court for racism, being a Muslim isn't a race it's a religion.. The only race involved is the race to dumb people down by religion.

Timeline: The Danish paper published the cartoons, no one gave a shit

Then, over a year later some Muslim political agitators collected them, mixed them up with straight racist propaganda and started spreading the word in Islamic countries that infidels were insulting the prophet.

The easily manipulated masses rioted worldwide, and as happens in riots, especially in 3rd world countries with corrupt police who'd rather shoot first than ask questions, many people died.

Summary in your head: Danish cartoonists killed 200 people.

You can only be insulted if you allow yourself to be insulted. No one else has that power unless you give it to them.. By allowing someone to insult you, you are giving them power over you.

YES!

?I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it?
Voltaire

It appears your intellectual faculties are not firing on all cylinders. But just in case you get them fixed, try learning the difference between "choosing to" and "being forced to".

I won't hold my breath waiting though.

The only "lol" worthy thing here is you.

So are you a man of your word? You got the explanation you asked for. Did you pay off the infidel for $100? or is your talk cheap without honor?

i still think there is misunderstanding.

charlie hebdo is only 1 step less evil than the terrorists. sorry that you totally cant see it. Regardless of the right to speak, there are consequences to speaking. you cant just insult people & say, i have rights, leave me alone. Thats not the real world.

in the real world, people respond to words. as a result, there are civil penalties for speech. libel, slander, sexual harassment, losing your white collar job due to political incorrectness. in extreme cases, a person may decide to murder you.

Charlie had the right to speak. They are dead because they did, & in a free nation no government can do anything to stop future events exactly like what happened. So people need to understand there are limits on speech from human nature, not just the law. Charlie shoulda had a lot more guards given the game of roulette they were playin.

as far as letting terrorists limit your speech, i understand. there is an ongoing conflict about that, one which will never be won with bombs. Only civil evolution away from sectarianism & tribalism, & towards enlightenment & prosperity in the middle east, this is the only solution to terror. But until that problem is solved in 200 years, one must use their heads & recognize the limits & accept them, even if its wrong. provoking jihadis to come after you is going to result in them coming after you.

do you see where im coming from?

So Charlie Chaplin should have never made The Great Dictator and in case the Nazis would have shot him and the others that worked on that movie plus bombed cinemas that showed it, you would say: their bad, should have waited until 1945....

Thank you for this message Laurent.

Hard to believe there are idiots on this thread that are opposed to what they did but some people can't see the big picture. :2 cents:

You ever heard of no-go-zones?

So lets just say, fine, we dont mock with muhammed and the prophet. Do you really believe it stops there ?

Do you really think that is the only problem we have upon us? Is the real answer we should be more tolerant? Is that it?

Are these so called no-go-zones that I hear about just an illusion, a trick made by right-wing activists?

You refer to afghanistan, saudi arabia and yemen as where actual radical islam is happening. So then why cant I walk in certain streets in paris or london or germany without fearing for my life? It's already happening in our backyard.

European 'No-Go' Zones for Non-Muslims Proliferating

Pull your head out of your ass and wake up. But you right about one thing, journalists are being very irreponsible about all this but that's because they run the errands of political leaders.

As I said in other threads this is just the beginning. It will get worse.

the I am charlie crew be like:

"I am brave in the relative security of my western country, I will not be told what to do even though it will probably kill others. I will put 1000-s of people world wide in danger, knowing 100% that the last time somebody did it 200 people died, as a result of violent demonstrations and stoking on both sides.

I am fully aware my no-talent comics bring no value to the world other than my desperation to make $, but I am in FRANCE! who cares about the MILLIONS of people who are non-muslim minorities who live in muslim countries who will potentially suffer? HO HO HO LIBERTE EGALITE!"



wow what heroes!!!!!!!!! reminds me of the ""heroes"" who wanted to burn down a mosque in my city and a christian priest begged the rioters not to do it because: its easy to be a "hero" in a western country but tomorrow the burning of the mosque will be all over the news and minority christians everywhere will suffer because some SPINELESS CUNTS did something in a non-muslim country and made others pay for it wordwide

@squirrtt

the 100$ was offered to anybody who can explain the artistic value of the drawings...you have to give an actuall explanation that makes sense and this explanation must include the reason that their comics have actual artistic value...my argument is that they are no-talent broke desperate trolls without a molecule of talent between them

come on man...yes there is trouble in some parts but get real with the no-go-zones...yes I have read the articles and as always :journalists sell fear better than the truth...