Are you guys buying 4K video content? Or is it overkill?
 

Hey guys!

Long story short, I've been shooting adult content for the past 15 years for different producers, then went into mainstream. Now I'm about to open my own adult content store and I want to make sure that the content suits your needs.

So, is there a place for such as thing as 4K porn videos? Or is it too much details for a surfer to count every single hair that you see at 4k!:winkwink:

We shoot a lot at 4K in mainstream (Super 35mm sensors such as Red EPIC, Sony F5 & Canon EOS C500) and in 2K with the Arri Alexa.
So I'm wondering if porn is at this level? What I've been seeing is only 1080p...

Bigger storage need, longer encoding time and bigger uploads of course, so it must be considered. Plus I don't know if websites would like the additional bandwidth stress...

Thanks for your input!

Yes, there are adult companies shooting in 4k and yes, it is overkill. :2 cents:

There's a big thread in xbiz forums regarding 4k. Looks like there are a few shooting in it now.

Whether it's going to be needed in the next couple of years is beyond me. In reality, I understand wild life editing worthy in 4k, but the difference on a standard 42inch tv is probably so slight, maybe the standard hd shall be enough. Only time can tell :2 cents:

We're shooting in standard sd on the canon & panasonic, hd on the live cam & sony z, which actually do also capture in 4k, but with the obvious lens size, the quality isn't as intense as the panasonic tbh.

I have a retina monitor and in a few years time it will be under killing it.
We march towards millions of pixels for average resolution, our brains be damned.

I think that the industry moving to 4k.
I shoot at HD now, but going to buy a 4k camera soon, need to upgrade :)
So, i believe this is the way to go with content.

I had the feeling it was overkill indeed.
Maybe just keeping the 4K masters for the future and edit and encode in 1080p would be ok for now.

Offer both, those who want it will pay extra for it. :2 cents:

If anyone wants to buy candid photos of Juicy D Links for 4K, I have them. All done with my professional Vivitar Barby camera in 3D.

Thanks.
Hey Alice if you happen to be around Toronto or Montreal in Canada, and you want to try a 4K camera, let me know!

Tip: stay away from the BlackMagic Cameras. The Sensor is buggy and it is not even remotely user friendly in the field. Not for pro work.

The goodies: Sony F5, Canon C500, Red Scarlet/Epic and especially the new Dragon.
I'm keeping an eye on the upcoming Aja Cion.

Thanks for the tips !
What do you think about the gh4 ?
It will be around 3k with the lenses, and i liked what i saw in youtube.
Red and Canon c500 are very expensive, and i am not shooting that often.

It's not the best...
Yes it does 4K, but with a Micro Four Thirds sensor. It is not a real Super 35mm-sized sensor.

So it's like saying I can shoot 4K with my smartphone. The resolution is there, but the sensor is so small that it is lacking the color rendition, it has a video-ish look because you do not have the cinematic shallow depth of field, the dynamic range is not so great at 10 stops and the the whole thing feels artificial instead or organic.

In my opinion, if you do not have yet a pro camera and you want to improve your image, go with a used Canon C300. It shoots at 1080p max, but you have a true Super 35mm sensor (in fact it is a 4K sensor but the camera downsized the image to 1080p and it's an awesome 1080p).

If your budget is limited and you really want 4K, then go with the Sony a7s. True full-frame 35mm sensor, almost 13 stops of dynamic range and Sony S-log 2.:thumbsup

At the moment i have: 5d mark with 24-70 2.8 and 70-200 2.8
It's awesome video quality, but almost not possible to shoot porn, as no auto focus.
(and all the rigs are to complicated).
So, i use it only for pictures and for video i use canon d10 :)
It's overall good quality, but i can't look at this anymore, as it so flat, i want this "cinematic picture".

Checking now Sony a7s, it can be a good alternative.
Thanks

:thumbsup:thumbsup

When HD first came out people said THAT was overkill. If you are an early adopter go for it. It will be the standard soon.

My new 4K cam will arrive on Tuesday. :)

Razor burn looks so sexy in 4k and unless you get the makeup and lighting perfect good luck hiding that herpes scar.

You CAN have too much detail in porn and in sex in general!

Why you think people get undressed and fuck in the dark!

What is once seen can never be unseen - be careful!

Why you should shot in 4k resolution:

http://ak3.picdn.net/shutterstock/vi...ffers-four.jpg

fap fap fap fap

Can someone tell me how Blu Ray has taken in the States, are DVDs still being sold?

It has been very slow in the UK, with stores and Amazon still selling more DVDs than Blu Rays.

Also the majority of broadcast is still SD with only a few so called HD channels of DVD quality HD.

A lot of HD TVs have been sold but one report said that 40% of them were not connected to any HD source.

4k will become a production tool, but requiring major investment for professional use, but it may never be a common domestic format.

The history of photography and cinema is littered with many dead large formats.

Yup!!

And its over kill for today, but 4K is is coming. The TVs will only be available in 4K in another year and a half.


Shot a scene the other day at 4K 60p, 250 gigs for one scene. Crazy resolution!




You are correct.


People are moving into 4K and not talking about it. Trying to keep an edge over the competition I guess.


But its so funny to me, because I have had 20+ producers and directors come to me for technical advice on cameras and editing systems.



Thats been my exact advice to everyone thats been seeking my advice.

Adds value to your content. The stuff you shoot today will seem new to people looking for 4K content in 2 years. Its the best way to keep ahead of the curve and add value to your content in the future.


Also a down convert from 4K to 1080p has a noticeably higher quality than if you shot the same content in 1080p in the same camera. Shot and did the tests myself. Im not the guy that listens to what others say without seeing the claims made in action for myself.


I have a pretty good knowledge of compression algorithms, video codecs, etc. And also keep in mind a $1,000 compression program will net you a smaller file at a higher quality than a $40 compression program.

Had a particular someone give me a 3 full-time editors at my disposal and a lot of money to prove this theory correct.

In short: A computer compression program will quality beat the shit out of any camera compression.


Nice post!


You know what your talking about!

I don't think many people here have a true understanding of dynamic range and its value.

Example of what dynamic range is: When you are shooting inside a house, on a well lit set with your current camera, and you shoot into a window what do you see??? White or a blown out right?

What 13-14 stops of dynamic range will do on the same set as above; when you shoot into the window, you won't see white or blown out, you will see everything outdoor exposed properly, matching the same shot inside and it will super clean.


What these new cameras can do are incredible. Look for dynamic range when you are buying a camera, not just that it says 4K.


Sony seems to be ahead of the budget quality 4K game right now.


I know what Im eying right now and when I get it in my hands and run it through its paces, I will give you a review on it.



Your right.

I have standards on the girls I shoot. I would have no issue with sending a girl home that has any bruising and unattractive marks, cuts, rashes, etc. I have done it more times than I can remember.


Good Make up artist, clean set lighting while make up gets applied and good lighting when you actually shoot the scene is going to be the standard for good 4K content.


Nice thread,


Just Dave

Here is a sales chart of only the top 50 titles:

http://www.jayallan.com/samples/gfy/bluray 2014.jpg

yes and yes but some people want to have what they think is the best and I will give them every option to join that I can

BAD ASS!!

Can you also find the same stats for DVDs versus Blurays? Curious to see the difference between the two.



Just Dave

You are somewhat correct but also a bit overblown on some of your statements :)

I shoot on Red Epics and also on Canons and Panasonic. While it is great to have 13 stops of dynamic range if you nail your exposure in camera and expose properly then the end user (consumer) will barely be able to tell the difference. On my bigger jobs we shoot RAW and that is really when you can work with the latitude but no one here is going to be shooting RAW in porn as the cost vs benefits ratio is not really worth it.

The GH4 is perfectly capable of shooting cinematic footage. Throw some nice glass on it and shoot it wide open and you will have very shallow DOF. Especially if you are shooting with long lenses. I shoot all the time with my Nikkor 300 2.8 and believe me it looks very cinematic :) It also has a much nicer image than my FULL FRAME Canon 5d3.

I love the Sony A7s but it wont shoot 4k out of the box and you need an outboard recorder and a few thousand extra over the GH4. I agree that it is a better image and better chip but the jump between the Sony and the Panasonic is miniscule compare to the jump between camera phones and the GH4. :2 cents:

BTW Something that I never really mentioned in my XBIZ thread. And it is so critically important.. It does not matter if you think 4K is overkill, a waste of time, unrecognizable, etc. Sony, Panasonic, JVC, Toshiba and dozens of other electronics manufacturers are going to spend HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS over the next few years convincing the public that 4K is the NEXT BIG THING. They will create so much buzz around it that it will create consumer curiosity. I personally am going to benefit greatly from their advertising dollars.

I will see what I can come up with. I know that sales of BR overall are much greater than DVD but also that certain genre like exercise or children's movies sell better still on DVD.

Hurry up buy and get it up online. I need some better quality user uploads to whack off to on the tubes

Thanks a lot for the input guys!

JustDaveXxx thanks for the comments. I've been playing with a lot of nice cameras and I think the technology is growing so fast and it only benefits us.

Heck, not so long ago we were shooting on miniDV with Canon XL1s and we thought that film would be dead soon. Then came the Red One, now we have C300-500, F5, and the wonderful ARRI Alexa.

So indeed keeping 4K masters is a good move and yes JayAllan you are right, Sony, LG, Samsung and co. will push 4K so hard that customers will ask for 4K.

Based on what I read, if you are looking to future proof wait. 4k is going to have a short life, 8k is on the map. I would wait for the 8k camera then you can down rez accordingly.
As far as dvd sales with up rezing dvd players the quality is very good for casually watching a movie.
The quality of the footage is more important than the resolution. Does the model look like she is having a hot time or is just there to pay the rent? You look on youtube, most of the content on youtube looks like crap but people seem real and that's what gets eye balls.

4K won't be big in porn until:
1) People have faster internet in more places
2) Harddrives MUCH larger then 4tb become commonplace
3) Screens that display 4k become more commonplace

I do not know a single person with a 4k TV here. I would suggest film in 4k, keep the masters like that and encode to 1080 - porn videos are all about streaming, be it on a tube or paysite or whatever, and most people can't even stream 1080 let alone 4k.

4k is an overkill.

The H265 compression codec is going to be the one that changes everything. I have been looking at some of the vids using it and it can take a file and make it damn near 10 times smaller than the current H264 and look BETTER than the H264 file.

That's what's gonna make 4k stream even faster than the current HD vids using H264 compression.

Hard drives won't have to be bigger either because the files will actually be smaller than the HD files are now.

I'm not sure what the hold up is on fully implementing H265, but when it happens (probably this year)...EVERYTHING changes.

I thought my XL1 was the greatest thing ever when it came out! :) I like your company name AC. Looking forward to seeing what you shoot. It is an exciting time right now to be a filmmaker. :thumbsup

I buy 4k content and then chop it down to 480x360 for phones

The new Divx comes with it. Take a look at the site.

Basically you cannot stop technology. But we are approaching "limits".

The basic business model of contstantly updating tech, operating systems, phones, etc, is coming to an end. WHY should I upgrade my perfectly fine TV, phone, monitor, etc etc JUST to get a barely noticeable bump in experience?

Sure companies will push and push (because they have no alternative) but on the consumer side I think we are reaching a kind of zenith.

Get your head out of your ass. It will be a common domestic format within 2 years.
1/4 of the new tv's in the tv store here are already 4k. This isn't some kind of odd format or codec that will dissapear.

yeah, same dinosaurs saying the same shit when hd came out.. Anyone half competent in lighting wouldn't have an issue i'm sure.

Is it overkill for the web (right now)? Yes.

Are you futureproofing yourself by shooting in 4K? For sure.

Depends on your niche and your content monetization strategy.

how big has to be your tv to make 4k interesting?
2 meters ?

Thanks Jay!
The XL1 was the best indeed :thumbsup

I'll share my stuff on GFY for sure.

Greetings from the Cold Up North (0F / -18C actually)

For those that don't know what the discussion is about. (Keep in mind this article is from Jan of 2013. If you are going to buy a new video camera, buy one that shoots in 4K. Period.

The Ultra HD battle preview: Time Warner, Netflix fight over high-quality streaming | ExtremeTech
http://www.extremetech.com/wp-conten...Comparison.jpg

Absolutely ! and the question is why so many threads about cameras and none about scripts, content and lighting?

There is no reason why a hot scene shot properly on HD will have a life as long as hundreds of feature films shot to date on film at HD quality.

Video makers can increase quality in dozens of ways as well as resolution, focus, lighting, sets, costumes, medium, filters, exposure....

Of course these don't increase the profits of Sony JVC who need to keep selling consumers TV sets and cameras whether they are needed or not.

The slow uptake of HD should be seen as a warning sign that things do not always go their way.... What new improved sound format do we have ? why not?

In photography large format cameras came first and then the more poorer quality 35 mm cameras took off and almost replaced the 6 x6 and plate cameras.

4 k will be wonderful for a few professional shot modern feature films watched in the cinema or in peoples home with 4 k projectors and large screens but for the rest of the population it may be of little interest.

Also 4k is going to have a very short shelf life.
Forget Ultra HD: 8K is closer than you think - Hardware
"But even as the world?s biggest TV makers work out how best to package 4K, Japanese state broadcaster NHK has been talking up its replacement. 8K Super Hi Vision offers an image 16 x more detailed than HD. At 33 megapixels it inflates the envelope of human visual acuity, and then pops it with a loud bang.

Dr Keiichi Kubota, NHK?s Executive DG of Engineering (below), told HCC that progress with 8K has been so rapid that they?ve now decided to leapfrog 4K as a transmission standard altogether: 'It took two decades to take hi-def from the lab to public demos. We?ve made the same progress with Super Hi-Vision in half the time,' he says. ?Our experts have set a target date of 2020 for experimental broadcasts, but there?s the possibility of bringing this forward. We want to begin as soon as possible.? "

4K is Obsolete. 5K is Here, 8K Comes Tomorrow by Jose Antunes

Question, how come, 1080 is the first number, 720 the same, why does 2 & 4k take the longer number?
So tbh, it's 4k is 2300 and not 4k or is this gimmick. Ahh because the break from HD to 2k was nothing but a few pixels

Gimmick :2 cents:

Solid find and very good information.


Keep in mind they are talking about Monitors and TVs, not cameras. Monitors and TVs are quality jumping faster up faster with technology than their affordable camera counterparts.


Think of HD 720 versus HD 10800: Both look great on a 1080p flat screen, just the 1080p is a bit sharper the the 720 version.



Same thing with 4K versus 8k. 4K footage will look great on an 8k tv but obviously 8k footage on an 8k tv will look that much better.


Right now if you want anything shot in 8K there are no atainable cameras that can do it. There are cameras that can do 6K, but a serious price.


Buying a solid 4k camera with a 422 or a 444 color space within the next year will be a safe bet. 4K will definitely be the next porn quality standard. :thumbsup



Just Dave

Look into getting a cropped sensor there is much more forgiveness when focusing.
If you use a higher iso and FSTOP this helps out greatly as well. You need to be super careful when shooting porn video/stills in full frame even if you know your shit it is still extremely difficult after 50mm when shooting multiple people not on the same focus plane. I never shoot full frame for sex anymore now that I know better. Full frame is awesome for single person portraits with short depth of field or "Bokeh Blur" cropped sensors are better for more than one person in the shot. If you need multiple faces in focus after 50mm and lower than F8 you subjects aren't all in focus unless the stand on the same focus plane.

If you are going to shoot full frame video go with a wider lens like the 12-24 and you will have much more in focus areas with full frame after 50mm your depth of field gets tiny.The problem with shooting wide on a full frame lens if you see more distortion and vignetting and wider focal lengths. With cropped sensors you are using the center portion of the lens so your lines are straighter and you rarely ever see any vignetting.

If you are going to go 4k don't get the A7S unless you want the same focusing issues and having to plugin an external recorder to get 4k.

The Panasonic GH4 is amazing for 4k I have tested it and recorded 1:25 min without stopping till my 64 gig card fills up. I have been using it for around 5 month and haven't even seen a hiccup with this camera. With the Panasonic lenses you can get face tracking and usable autofocus for run an gun. I do it all day for mainstream clients for run and gun and rarely does it hunt for focus. The Micro 4/3 format is amazing and your camera bag ends up weighing 1/4 of what full frame does as well.
If you are concerned about shooting in low light and want a 35mm reverse crop you can get the Metabones SpeedBooster that turns your Micro 4/3 into a full frame field of view and give you that extra full stop of light.

Thanks!
A lot of great info.
I wanna get GH4 with sigma 18-35 and booster. Do you think it's enouf for the beginning or i must add 35-100 lens as well ?
And, what about rig, something that simple will be ok ?
F11100 ???????????????? GH3 GH4 ???????? ????? ????? ????? ??????? ?????? ???????? ??? ?????? ??????? DSLR Rig ???????? ?????? + ?????????? ?????

Thats a fantastic setup I use the 18-35 all the time with the speed booster its butter smooth and razor sharp. You need the 35-100 for closeups. If you want a lens that does it all the Panasonic 14-140. If I am shooting low light (mainstream events only) but still want autofocus I use the 25mm summilux 1.4

Here is a great informative video on the Sigma 18-35 1.8 on the Speedbooster with the Gh4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUoFNEKD3bE
Most of the time I use that setup with the Pana 35-200 2.8 for closeups. If I am shooting with one camera and want the best range/ awesome stabilization/ultra fast focus I break out the Pana 14-140

The rig you pointed out looks great. Invest in a Rode Video Mic Pro the GH4 has a fantastic audio and you can adjust levels while recording. No need for external audio unless you need multiple sources.

One last thing to get good autofocus with out hunting on a cropped sensor like the GH4 you need be at F5.6 and up don't expect it at 1.4 or 2.8

After IS0 800 you will see some noise but its usable to 1600 I rarely need to go over IS0 400 and just use the right lens when I am in low light.

Hope this helps :)