Open Letter to the Adult Industry About PornHub and Other UGC Sites
 

Open Letter to the Adult Industry

Now Is the Time to Support PornHub and Other User-Generated Content Sites That Combat Exploitative Content and Piracy

Before I go any further, I want to stress these are my views and my views alone.

Most everyone in the adult industry is aware that in less than a span of a week Pornhub went from updating their terms and conditions for uploaded content to being banned by both MasterCard and Visa.

Like many of you, I have not always had a great experience with MindGeek. Many years ago, I almost got into a physical altercation with one of the founders of YouPorn because of their pirating of my content. After calming down, I had a discussion with this gentleman and he explained they did not control what was uploaded and he gave me his personal contact information in case I needed assistance with removing my content from YouPorn. After that night, whenever someone uploaded my content it was quickly removed. Fast forward several years, my company was invited to be one of the first studios to join their partner program. It provided a chance for my company to monetize my older scenes.

I am sharing my negative experiences first because in the nine years since I met that gentleman much has changed in the ways MindGeek has interacted with my company and others in the industry. They have changed so much that I now consider them industry leaders in working with producers while combating piracy.

First and foremost, MindGeek was the first of the three major tube sites to work with producers so they could monetize their content. Since that time both xHamster and Web Group (the parent company of xVideos and XNXX) have done the same and now all three of them work with the vast majority of professional studios and countless amateurs as well

In the last few days MindGeek has banned and removed content that was uploaded by non-verified users in their best effort to purge stolen content as well as questionable content so that uploaders can no longer be anonymous. This has been met with a lot of anger and hostility by many people, but this is being done for the best interests of everyone.

I have seen a lot of people rejoicing that MindGeek is not able to process Visa and Mastercard, believing this is a good thing. No matter what your prior opinion or experiences have been with MindGeek now is the time to come together as an industry and to support them. An attack on MindGeek and Pornhub is an attack on all of adult. MindGeek is doing more than any other site to combat illegal and exploitative content and I am optimistic that others in the industry will follow their lead. Sadly, since there are many other sites that will continue to ignore these issues, it is our responsibility to cease doing business with them.

Fully agreed on all points.

As an affiliate i don't care what happens with pornhub.

As I posted on the other board, I will add my :2 cents: here ...

Dan, it's a very well written letter with good intentions from your part towards this industry as a whole. However I humbly stand firm on the belief, that PornHub, like many of it's original competitors, are nothing more than PARASITES. For too many years they sucked the life out of the content creators, the remnants of which are nothing more than zombies.

My humble suggestion, identify platforms that never stole from their future partners, and help migrate the content creators there. It's time that PornHub and the likes of them be abandoned.

Respectfully,

:thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup

https://i.imgflip.com/1j3wjz.jpg

There's lots of anger and hostility in the industry because PH/MG had the ability to remove all the pirated and UGC content at any given time. PH/MG only removed the UGC in the last few days because V/MC/D/PP forced them and left PH/MG with no other choice. PH/MG didn't remove the UGC content for the best interests of anyone, but themselves.

They are not your friends.

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-we7iJC_sU...restricted.gif

:1orglaugh

The real question now is why haven't other major tubes such as Xvideos already removed submitted content.

I agree with your words and images:upsidedow!..

I am sure they will be making big changes soon

Like I said this is way bigger than my relationship with PornHub or for that matter any other one of my many revenue streams

It is about the entire adult industry being under attack.

EVERY User Generated Content could have the same thing happen to them, as could paysites, camming, or anything else connected to the adult industry

Focus on all the positive things that PornHub has done and hopefully, other sites will follow their lead.

This.

They aren't removing content for altruistic reasons. If they hadn't been bitch-slapped by Visa and MasterCard, it would be business as usual.

I understand your point Porno Dan but I don't share it at all.

Now adult is not my main source of income but when it was the case a couple of years ago, I used to work with UGC (amateur sites) and paysites. Under no circumstances my partners and I would even think of publishing content without reviewing content itself and IDs.
Unlike PH and others.

They started their business as huge parasites and no matter that when they became so big, so unavoidable, they could afford to pretend to be nice guys and to have removal policies, partners program, in other words, honest business practices. They stole content for ages and proof is that they didn't give a shit, not only about producers they were stealing from, but also the actual content that was uploaded to their networks.

Responsible entrepreneurs and irresponsible ones should stick together? Why that? I don't want to be assimilated to thieves and such amoral people. We don't play in the same league. If I was a cook, I would'nt want to be assimilated to a cook who uses rotten ingredients with the argument that hey after all, we're in the same business...

It's not about morals : we all made money with porn, and I even borderline stuff I must admit, but always with adult & consenting actresses & actors, never crossed the line....

In fact, my opinion is right the opposite of yours : we should shout a Visa/MC and the rest of the world that we're don't want to be assimilated to these amoral bunch of thieves.

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:2 cents:

They are doing what they are doing because they got banned. They could've done the right thing 10+ years ago.

Wow, thanks for literally nothing of value. :thumbsup

:1orglaugh

https://i.imgur.com/5mCDsr1.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/MhE3LCT.jpg

:thumbsup

I have always viewed Pornhub (Mind Geek), XHamster and the rest as Affiliates who send me traffic. We make sales together. That's all I know and all I want to protect.

Forget about the philosophical stuff about whether MG is good or bad, how they started, what they did to the Adult Industry, etc. It's almost 2021 (thankfully) and I do not wage past (lost) battles. Instead I look to the future and want to work WITH any Affiliate who can send enough traffic to make sales to my paysites. Anything else is just noise.

I can't change the world or regulate an entire Industry. But I CAN (and do) take care of my business partners, workers and Affiliates to the best of my limited ability. Anything else I don't really worry about. But if I can support ANY Affiliate I will do so. Therefore I. for one, am hopeful Pornhub weathers this storm so we can all make more money together.

Well said. :thumbsup

Just how fucked is this industry when content producers praise the people who crucified them?

Unless every tube does the same there will be no long term changes, because surfers follow the content.

The only people who should be praised are the people who wrote the article that forced Vis and MC to do something. They know what sites contain and do nothing about it, like every Tube that breaks the rules.

Fixed that for you . . .

All what PH did was to protect them self's, nothing for people in all this shit!

You mean the religious lobbyists who are working outlaw all adult content, and just started with the biggest and most visible entity?

Like it or not, PH and other large tubes are the current faces of our industry to the outside world. Sure, they may be like that rich eccentric uncle we all may hate and talk poorly about behind his back, but when an outside party strikes a blow to him that to most of us seems overkill, we should do what we can to protect our kind.

Fuck PH/MG. Their removal of all the UGC is basically an admission of wrongdoing. I hope the plaintiffs from Girls Do Porn and others who have been wronged by PH/MG go after them for monetary damages. After they are crippled by the civil suits, the Feds can go in for the kill.

for once I agree with you...


PornoDan, I´m with PH and know i gain traffic from them, not that i update regular, now, what i can say is that since they have made this change, obviously as SBJ mentioned, it´s due to situations, but nether the less, i´ll be taking advantage and updating my pages with them, I can only see positive coming from this :2 cents:

and this is why professionals, models and producers, must take advantage of the positive and update, upload as much legit content to PH now, this in turn should either put other tubes out of business or, give them a reason to follow...

the end result being legit content displayed and continued sales from the obvious links available :thumbsup

Exactly, this is an attack on our entire industry

MindGeek are taking the lead on what has the potential to be greatly beneficial for every producer by banning unverified content



It doesn't why there are doing it, it matters that are doing it

And as far as other tube sites or platforms that allow only verified content there are not any!

The reason they are doing so is because they got caught... it's not they are a knight in shining armor trying to save the industry!!

"The complaint claims that as early as 2009, "and definitely by fall 2016," Mindgeek knew Girls Do Porn was coercing and intimidating models into having sex on camera. It also places much of the blame for the victims' harm on Mindgeek, presenting several claims from models themselves that Pornhub failed to take down videos, even when they reported the videos to Pornhub and pleaded with the company to remove them."

Doesn't seem that these women were given the same respect. How do you feel knowing what you know now after reading the lawsuit claims?

I wouldn't support them (Pornhub).

Exactly! Nothing would change if someone didn't hurt their pocket.

40 Girls Do Porn Victims Are Suing Pornhub for $1 Million Each

At least one woman allegedly offered money and her removal request was still denied. Discovery will likely show many more instances of studios getting preferential treatment over victims with regards to content removal.

exactly as I posted...


whether PH have done this to protect their own asses, why not take advantage and make the industry better?

It would be stupid not to collaborate and take this to the next level, one of the biggest free porn tube sites offering only producer and model content :thumbsup

Well said.
Unfortunately.
There are now dozens of sites that are not tube, have validated content, that are impacted because VC/MC are stopping processing them.
To give a concrete example yes Nutaku is owned by Mindgeek, but it's distributing 2D GAMES. So it has nothing, nothing to do with the original issue.
To me that proves that it's a direct, coordinated attack on Mindgeek, against all their services.

UnfortunatelyX2, we're facing corporations that are nearly above the laws... and even if there are laws, anything that's labelled porn is guilty by default, right?

Of course Mindgeek and Pornhub have been using dark strategies to their advantages, and I'm honestly fine that a wake-up call is being sent and that they're cleaning their mess. But what's happening is going beyond the original reason, beyong laws...

it's a witch hunt.

Do you think it started on the Internet?

The anti-porn brigade has always tried to shut the industry down and can't. The best thing for this industry would be better regulation. We could then set about making more money.

There are clearly two issues here:

1) The zealots ( from left and right) are clearly trying to kill adult business on some pretend moral grounds.

2) These mega tubes ( and many NOT so mega) are stealing and promoting stolen ( ehm " user generated") content.

So this issue is therefore: "damn if you do, damn if you don't" :2 cents:

This industry would be thriving if there were more regulations that could be applied. Whatever the limit is we would make more money if we worked within that limit. For instance, if all porn went behind a sensible payment barrier of $10 minimum a month. That would eliminate the open access to children surfing porn. If extreme porn was banned, if sites were required to have legit records of models, etc.

Today we have the biggest user base ever so any government that tries to shut it down will be losing votes. Yet we all lose money because never has so many consumed so much for free.

The danger now is some people will put up Tubes, allow UGC, and rely solely on ad sales which Visa and MC can't do squat about.

Dan - im trying to reach you, can you ping me via Skype (webgurl2). Cheers

I was educating you that the NYTimes article leading to the visa/mc termination of pornhubpremium's billing was written by Morality in Media as an attack on the porn industry.

No, they should not be praised.

There is also no "we" here Paul, you don't make any money in adult.

Just sent you a Skype -

Very scary bill they're trying to rapidly push through.

https://www.sasse.senate.gov/public/...ion-act-3-.pdf

Key components of the legislation:
• Require platforms hosting pornography to, within two weeks of enactment:
o Require any user uploading a video to the platform verify their
identity
o Require any user uploading a video to the platform also upload a
signed consent form from every individual appearing in the video.
• Creates a private right of action against an uploader who uploads a
pornographic image without the consent of an individual featured in the
image.
• Require platforms hosting pornography include a notice or banner on the
website instructing how an individual can request removal of a video if an
individual has not consented to it being uploaded on the platform.
• Prohibit video downloads from these platforms, to be in place within three
months of enactment of this legislation.
• Require platforms hosting pornography offer a 24-hour hotline staffed by
the platform. Individuals who contact the hotline can request removal of a
video that has been distributed without their consent.
o Require removal of flagged videos as quickly as possible, but not to
exceed 2 hours.
• Require platforms to use software to block a video from being reuploaded after its removal. The platforms must have this software in place
within six months of enactment of this legislation.
• Directs the Federal Trade Commission to enforce violations of these
requirements.
• Creates a database of individuals that have indicated they do not
consent. The database must be checked against before new content can be
uploaded to the platforms.
o Instructs the Department of Justice to promulgate rules on where this
database should be housed, and determine how to connect these
victims with services, to include counseling and casework.
o Failure to comply with this requirement will result in a civil penalty to
the platform, with proceeds going towards victims services.

As I happen to read this on the other board and replied there, I will do the same here.

Each one of the general proposals is manageable, including the uploading of the model releases with each legally licensed video by the verified accounts. Right?

The exception would be the "require removal of flagged videos as quickly as possible, but not to exceed 2 hours". Flagging simply suggests a investigation into a claim submitted by someone requires follow through and a conclusion/determination. That may take more time to process.

What am I missing here? How exactly does this harm platforms which use legally licensed content?

I numbered the bullet points to make them easier to reference. This proposed bill is a clusterfuck.

(1) "Platforms hosting pornography" would likely include Twitter and Reddit, so if this bill was passed, they're likely to ban porn vs. dealing with the onerous compliance requirements.

Would "platforms hosting pornography" include porn related forums like GFY where actual images and videos are not hosted, but hotlinked?

(1a) "Require any user uploading a video" appears to exempt existing content and any images, from ID verification.

Most people will not be willing to give up their privacy, especially pirates. This could prevent lots of pirated videos from being uploaded, both to tubes and filelockers.

(1b) "Require any user uploading a video" appears to exempt existing content and any images, from consent forms.

Given the allegations made by the NYT against PH about UA victims, it's surprising the requirement only requires consent and not consent with proof of 18+.

Note the word "appearing" is not the same as "performing". Consent forms would need to be provided for everyone appearing in Public Disgrace, Party Hardcore or similar videos regardless of whether they are clothed or performing sex acts.

(2) Good, let the victims sue for damages. Why aren't videos without consent also included?

(3) How would a platform verify the individual? Most victims want to remain anonymous. The plaintiffs in GDP were all Jane Does. Would a victim be expected to out themselves and provide personally identifiable info to potentially hundreds or thousands of porn sites that have unauthorized content? A UA victim certainly can't be expected to provide ID.

Why can't victims request removal of images without consent?

(4) I doubt this can work. Screen capture software that users can use to circumvent download prohibitions is already widely available.

(5) This is very expensive to implement and only the biggest players will be able to do this. "Staffed by the platform" seems to imply outsourcing isn't permitted.

How are phone attendants supposed to verify a stranger calling on the phone and compare the caller to someone allegedly appearing in a video?

(5a) Is 2 hours enough time for platforms to even verify complaints before a takedown?

What if the flagged videos are legitimate videos with performers who have given consent and are 18+?

(6) Is this even possible? If analyzing the data from videos, wouldn't videos of different length or resolution have different "fingerprints"? Would adding an overlay like a watermark change the "fingerprint"?

Would multiple platforms with common ownership such as MindGeek have to implement software that blocks a removed video from a platform to being uploaded to a related platform?

(7) How would the FTC enforce US law for sites hosted outside the US or by persons/entities who are not US citizens/residents/based/incorporated?

(8) See comments from (3) above.

Who has access to this sensitive info? Compare this to the WHOIS database.

Would this database conflict with EU GDPR?

How would those few actually willing to provide personally identifiable info be protected from hackers?

Would it block access to companies looking to mine data and sell it like those who sell background checks?

Would someone be able to type in the name of their coworker or neighbor to get info from the database?

Would the database draw the attention of stalkers and sexual predators?

Synopsis: good luck passing and enforcing this clusterfuck. :helpme

All that would happen online is porn would find a new way to monetize.

Well said. It could mean the death of affiliates uploading content, especially Tubes. Paysites can afford to to do these measures.

Well said. Remember all the fear-mongering over 2257?

Whatabout xxx fear-mongering ?

I vote for that :thumbsup