If you are terminal, is suicide wrong?
 

Some of you may know I was told by the doctor a few weeks ago that I have a tumor in my kidney. He sent me in to have a CT scan done and yesterday I got the results and it was not good. The scan showed the tumor extending into the liver and he said it appeared to be wrapped around some type of main artery that runs up and down the body. From what he told me the survival rate for kidney tumors at this stage are 5-10%, and we don't know if it has spread to other parts of the body, thats the next test I have to do. He's telling me that he wants to do surgery and told me it would be very risky due to the artery.

So since I have no health insurance I will have to pay for the surgery myself, and with such small odds I'm wondering if it would even be worth doing. I have pretty much already accepted the fact that death is a real possibilty. I have a 5 year old and I would at least like to leave him the money I do have, but if I do this surgery there will be none. I know having me around would be a lot more important for him but I feel either way there isnt much hope. I feel terrible for him, I can't even look at him right now without crying. He already has gone through more than he should, his little brother was killed in a car crash a few years ago and me and his mom divorced last year. So I am seriously thinking about not doing anything and when things get to the point where things start getting bad just ending it. Is that so wrong? I don't want him growing up thinking his dad killed himself but I figure why go through all the suffering when that is going to be the outcome anyway. Whats the right thing to do here?

I would be hard to say not being put in that situation personally

get the surgery... its not even a question dude.. think how much your son will look up to you when he sees how u were faced with this problem and pulled through in the end.. determination at its best! get the surgery man... anything else is not even an option!

Tough decision since I'm not in your shoes. Before you decide ANYTHING...get all your ducks in a row. Get all your medical facts straight, get second opinions, etc. Don't accept what one Dr. has to say and base a life or death decision on that.

There is help for those without medical insurance. Contact your DPHHS/Welfare Office or whatever. If you don't have insurance, there are other options besides suicide.

I think leaving your son with a legacy of you killing yourself. vs. leaving him with money is a no brainer. He will be less screwed up being poor than having memories of a father who killed himself. But you need to do what is right for you. Just look at all the options, look at all the resources out there and don't make any rash decisions. And least of all, don't make a selfish decision. The one's left behind have to suffer the most.

Dude you will not find your answers on this board.

This is a subject you should be talking about with real people.

There is ALWAYS hope. Remember that- there are many who pull through.

think long and hard, you already know the answer

:(


there is no right answer. i am so sorry, i can't fathom what you're feeling and going through. i hope that somehow the doctors can help you beat this, don't give up hope yet.

you are more important now than your son when it comes to money. there are people I am sure who will make sure he is cared for. get the best medical care you can.

that's weak. sorry to hear man.

i believe people have the right to choose if they live or die. the ultimate dicision is up to you.

Get the surgery man, even if you unfortunatly pass away, it is still the right thing to do. By the time your kid is old enough to think for himself I am certain he would think the same thing. Money can only buy you things (shit that truly doesn't matter), but you have the chance to buy back your life for yourself and your son. Goodluck with it too.

It is your choice and I feel for you. If you do pick suicide, be sure to write a letter or make a video tape for your son explaining why you chose that path. He will at least have something from your heart to remember you by.

My friend's step-brother died last week of lung cancer. The docs gave him three to six months to live. He decided that he had enough tests and treatments. He died in his bed from the big C with his father at his side.

Whatever choice you do make, think about it and talk it over with family and friends. Weigh the options carefully and I wish you luck.

man.. sit and talk with your family.. dont bring it to a fucking chat board - this situation requires friends and family - not the sympathy of the porn industry.

dumbass.

the son doesn't even have to know it's suicide - once the cancer really starts coming on it would be like he died naturally - just take morphine instead of chemo and surgery...

that said, I'm sorry to hear this mate, but i've just had an uncle beat cancer last year.. I don't think suicide's wrong in these circumstances at all, but there is always hope. Would you want your son to kill himself if there was a 5-10% chance he would live?

You're probably right, I suppose probably will do the surgery. Its just that I've seen a few friends go through this and they fight, go through hell for a few years and still die. Not to mention a 5-10% prognosis is not good.

Surgery is the only option, or whatever advice the doctors give you.. there is ALWAYS hope and I bet that little 5 year old needs you more than you know...

Thats an interesting question, and most likely the answer would be no unless his quality of life if he did survive would be bad. That definitely puts things in perspective.

and still, it is so relative...

Put your money in an irrevocable trust. Get the surgery. If you die, they can't come after your familys money to repay the debt. If you live, then figure out how to pay it off over time.

I will answer from the perspective of a survivor of suicide.

My mother chose to take her own life march 1, 2003.

She chose to take her own life due to her deteriorating physical condition.

The guilt, the anger, the hurt I live with daily is something I would never wish upon someone.

I try to rationalize it all by saying she was in pain and it would only be selfish for me to want her to be here...however I don't think she fully explored all of her options.

YOu're talking about taking a step in a clear direction that you will never be able to correct...it's final...there is no coming back.

So with that in mind, explore all of your options fully, yes your chances according to your doctors are grim...however there are still chances..you're kid would rather have you around than a bank account full of money..and honestly would probably rather know that a disease took your life and not some action at your own hands.

You're talking about a decision making process he will not be able to even begin to comprehend for years to come...shit I'm 37 and am still trying to work through my mother's.
good luck, and good health.

I'm sorry to hear about your mother. I know what you're saying, I've always felt that suicide is the most selfish thing someone can do. But on the other hand, do you have any comfort at all about the fact that she is not suffering anymore? I don't know what her particular situation was, but I do think the medical community has this attitude to keep someone alive at all costs regardless, and I'm not sure that is right either.

Suicide is a sin

get the surgery and hope for the best.

:( that really sucks man, sorry I cant provide more input I just dont know what to say :(

Agreed.

Get the surgery man... what kind of hope is it gonna give your son when he sees his own father giving up.. if he see's that your a fighter and you dont give up,, that example will be worth more to him then any dollar amount.

Same thing here, don't do that !

Do the surgery !!

... and this is why health care should be a gauranteed right in all developed nations.
Without life, you have no other rights. :2 cents:

I hope you don't start asking for donations.

Sorry about your cancer. That is too bad.

My grandfather was terminally ill and after much persistance simply decided to stop his dialysis and die. It was sad but noone questioned his decision as he'd perservered so much before.

Go for the surgery. If at some point after that you deteriorate and life becomes too unbearable, then consider ending it. It's too early man, things can go either way. At least give survival a shot.

You have no option! there is no desision to make here!

You either decide to try and save your life by having, and paying for the surgery, or you make your final plans! and do nothing!

I am sorry to sound harsh, but If you have a child, you owe it to him to fight! there is no option!

Do the surgery, and do it ASAP! time is a factor!:2 cents:

Sounds good until you have to pay for it. Can you think of any other "rights" that come with a price tag? Rights are limitations placed on government, NOT requirements of government action.

Once you make the government responsible for paying for health care, you open your personal life up to all sorts of meddling. Why should society subsidize risky behavior such as smoking? On average smokers require much more medical care than non-smokers. So lets ban smoking so conserve tax revenue. Its not so bad, smoking is unhealthy anyways. But why stop there, lets ban alcohol as well. Alcohol does a real number on the liver and leads to impaired judgement which is the cause of many injuries (particularly around automobiles). Obese people are more at risk of diabetes and heart disease. Better put those people on the treadmill. In fact lets make being overweight illegal, after all obese people use more than their share of medical care. While we're at it, we better limit what they eat as well. We eat so much unhealthy food in our society. Better off just banning all that bad food. The more sexual partners someone has, the greater the odds of them having an STD. STD treatments cost money you know. Lets not go spending more of the public's tax money than we need to. I guess we better ban sex outside of marriage. People don't need multiple partners, its just too risky. A lot of people also get injured rock climbing, riding motorcycles, skiing, etc. Lets ban those for recreation, and only allow those activities for professional reasons under a special permit. The government will take care of us. The government has our best interests at heart.

I may be in the minority, but I think alcohol and smoking should be banned. :2 cents:

Definitely get a second opinion! I am a strong believer that mind over matter is a very powerful thing. You can't give up believing that you can get through this!
My mother was diagnosed with a similar situation...cancerous tumor, dangerous operation! She made it and so can you! It's not easy but, you don't want your son growing up seeing you as quitter!

eh...I wont pass judgement, be it moral or religious, but before you even consider it go here and read some of the survivor's stories:

http://www.survivorsofsuicide.com/

complete nonsense. Most countries provide health care and none of them have banned smoking or alcohol (most have more relaxed drug laws), or forced people onto treadmills, or told them not to rock climb. And the worst offender at trying to control it's citizens sex life is the USA.

If you don't want to 'pay for other people' because you are gambling on winning the health lottery then fine, that's an arguement (selfish, but valid). However know that you are paying far more in premiums than you would pay in additional taxes, just to line the pockets of insurance companies, who in turn lobby politicans for further financial gain.

But I bet if you were farced with the same choice the thread-starter is, you'd change you opinion about the issue.

5- 10% aren't good odds but they're better than nothing. Sounds like you've already resigned yourself to your fate but that fate isn't a certainty by any stretch - unless you choose to do nothing.

I'm sure your son would want you to have the surgery rather than any amount of money you could leave him.

Have you lived in a country with socialized medicine? For the record I'm an American living in Canada (which as universal health care). Compared to the US, the medical system here sucks. There's a perpetual shortage of nurses and doctors. And the nurses have tendancy to go on strike about once a year. If you go to the emergency room, you'll be lucky to see a doctor in 12 hours (unless you're spurting blood from every orifice). Finding a family doctor (atleast in Montreal) is almost impossible. About a week ago there was story in the newspaper here about a guy who waited over a week to have a broken bone set. In flu season its common for hospitals to turn people away because they don't have enough beds. One of my friends had to wait four months to have some tests done on his urine.

My dog has a knee condition where the kneecap pops out of alignment. Currently it doesn't happen frequently enough to require surgery but I was told that if/when surgery is needed it would take about a week to schedual. A person who needed a similar operation would have to wait probably around 6 months.

Dental and eye care are not covered by the government and the service is as good as in the states so its not a cultural difference.

I'm not gambling on winning the health lottery. I'm working to ensure I can afford private insurance. There was about a five year period of my life when I didn't have health insurance. I am athsmatic and during that time I had a few attacks which proved quite costly. However, even then I wasn't a supporter of socialized medicine.

I find it very hard to believe that the government could provide the same quality of service for the same cost (or less) than the current situation. The government is not an efficient organization. Insurance companies have a reason to keep prices low (competition) the government has no such incentive.

So its not about principles its all about the handout?

I agree. Being able to afford health insurance is not the problem, I am also diabetic so I was not able to get coverage period, companies would flat out turn me down.
And whats really irritating is I have paid close to half a million dollars in taxes over the past five years and I could not get any health coverage whatsoever, even before this latest episode.

Now everything I have worked for will end up going to this and then some, but if it saves my life then it was worth it. If it doesnt then my kid not only loses his dad but any financial security in the future.

I agree with everyone else, get a second opinion. If u do need the surgery, onlu you can decide if you are going thru with surgery. All I can say is that you have a child, think about that child, what it will be like for him to know that his dada could have been with him longer but chose not to. :(

You need to go for the win.

5-10% survive...why can't you be one of them ?

Living in a country without basic health care sucks.

How people can vote republican when we have situations such as yours is totally beyond my comprehension.

Talk to your friends and loved ones. Accept their strength. With their help, you will come to the decision that is best for you.

If you believe in a god, may that belief provide you comfort.

If you believe in a rational existence, know that your loved ones are with you.

I think the same way,very hard to tell...

k. I won't bother to quote/reply bit by bit, because I really didn't intend to threadjack this guys serious situation. (I hope he listens to my advice about protecting his familys money in a trust before putting himself into debt. The main downside being he would be unable to borrow against those assets) But I do want to point out that in most countries with gauranteed health care there are also private health care practices if you want to buy your way to the front of the line. The rich will still get special treatment. But as a society we must take care of eachother. If someone is suffering, it's inhumane to deny them care based on their savings account. Money is not a measure of a persons worth.

it is your life and your decision. But my advice is to go for the surgery if you are not in terrible pain. And see another dr.
My mom had brain cancer surgery in 2002 and the medical communitity gave up on her.. they gave her like 6-8 weeks.

I brought her home paralysed and blind after the surgery and everyone called me a fool. It took me some time but I taught her speak and walk again and she lost her vision for her right eye only so she could watch tv, etc. and she did not have physical pain.

She was on chemo from the very beginning and just had another surgery.. there is always hope. If we trust the surgeon in 2002, she'd be dead by now.

Like I said it's you life and your decision but if you are a fighter, don't miss the 10% chance. It is too easy to give up imho.

I'll keep my fingers crossed and wish you the best.

The doctor said you have a 5-10% chance of surviving after the surgery, even if it's that small, there's STILL a chance. There's still hope. Get the surgery. I am sorry you have to go through this. But please have faith.

HA! If there really were such things as sins, then there wouldn't be things like cancer!

He's not asking for donations but so what if he fucking was?

:1orglaugh