Where did the "Original" energy come from?
 

Ok, So my best friend is a Minister, and I'm an Athiest. And we had a 4 hour debate over our beliefs again, which to date has now been going on for I shit you not, 20 years. Basically it boils done to the original energy that created the universe. The way he see's it is simple, God created the universe therefore is outside of the laws that govern that universe. Since Energy can not be created or destroyed where did the original energy come from unless it was created by God. Basically his argument reduces everything no matter how you look at it to a faith belief, since no one has this answer. So, any ideas, where did this original enery come from?

It came from the Extreme Hole.

i am a human:

i get drunk
i smoke weed
i fuck chicks
i stretch while i am peeing
i fart whenver i feel like it


and i am supposed to answer this?

you wasted that much of your time on nonsense like that?
you need your head examined.

LOL! It's is funny to me the in 20 years of depating with him it really comes down to this 1 question. Which can not be answered, on either side. Course my stance is a simple one, Man created "God" to fill in the questions that arose from attaining a level of self awareness.

All this energy has wrapped itself into a few book's that pit brother gainst brother in war's, thousands of years of human strife and the ultimate comming of god to the planet earth.


Yeah...
Umm. Right.

I'm going to share Spinoza's God.. with some Wiki quotes.

Spinoza argued that God and Nature were two names for the same reality, namely the single substance (meaning "to stand beneath" rather than "matter") that underlies the universe and of which all lesser "entities" are actually modes or modifications.

Spinoza contended that "Deus sive Natura" ("God or Nature") was a being of infinitely many attributes, of which extension and thought were two. His account of the nature of reality, then, seems to treat the physical and mental worlds as two different, parallel "subworlds" that neither overlap nor interact. This formulation is a historically significant panpsychist solution to the mind-body problem known as neutral monism. The consequences of Spinoza's system also envisage a God that does not rule over the universe by providence, but a God which itself is part of the deterministic system of which everything in nature is a part. Thus, God is the natural world and has no personality.

Spinoza has had influence beyond the confines of philosophy. Albert Einstein named Spinoza as the philosopher who exerted the most influence on his worldview (Weltanschauung). Spinoza equated God (infinite substance) with Nature, consistent with Einstein's belief in an impersonal deity. In 1929, Einstein was asked in a telegram by Rabbi Herbert S. Goldstein whether he believed in God. Einstein responded by telegram "I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baruch_Spinoza

That's wrong on so many levels... MY EYES are bleeding. I'm just thankful that man has not figured out smellavision.

Here is what I think.

We exhist in a dimension, this dimension has an unlimited number of alternate realities and timelines as does this dimension itself in physical "Space".

Time itself is merely a law of this dimension and most probably an element of other infinite dimensions.

So just when you think our very universe or dimension is unfathembly big, may I introduce the thought that really no one has a mere beginning clue as to how big all things are when considering dimensional properties of anything in exhistance and things not in exhistance. But keep in mind even things that are non exhistant. Exhist.

Thus...
God does indeed exhist even if god does not.

Is god evident in the bible, koran? Sure it is.
The real question of those books is whether or not they are even worthy of living and dying for within a "Belief" system that rules mankand's behavior.

What we are is Natural and yet un-natural.

Morality has nothing to do with it, nor does Prayer nor does just simply being "Alive" what ever it is. We all exhist and yet at the same time never exhisted. We never truly die to non-exhistance.

In short...

We are all god's.

NICE! Thanks you for pointing this out to me. I'm reading it, but of course it's going to take a bit to absorb. I'm going to have to head over to Barns and Noble and see about finding some of his works. In what I'm reading , he lokos at the debate as I have come to look at it....

Interesting passage about MUTIPLE Gods in the bible...

Genesis 3:22 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

Copyright ? 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society
NIV at IBS International Bible Society NIV at Zondervan Zondervan

22 And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."


Note the "US". This whole Tree of life thing is skipped over by most christians, it's not "God" giving eternal life but this tree.... If you do a little study on the bible you will find that God is granting access to the tree of life, which will sustain the sole forever. Which if you dig a little deeper does follow the laws of entropy. You have to add energy to a system to sustain it.