My take on the zango/aff scandel
 

fucking idiots seem to be following me and asking me my take on this in threads not related to it so here's my respond.

1. - AFF did not pay me to make any statement for or against them.
2. - If I felt it necessary I could replace AFF in less than a day.

That being said - here's what I really think.

I do not believe it is right to tell someone else how to run their business. I'm getting annoyed at all the fucking idiots on here that tell me to dump AFF over this - I don't tell you morons how to run your business - why the fuck are you telling me how to run mine?

Am I happy about the zango situation - no - I'd be a fucking idiot if I was. I personally believe zango is an illegial scam operation that will eventually face legal problems for what they are doing and they are HURTING PEOPLE. That is wrong. I personally choose not to do business with zango on that reason.

That does not mean that cause another company I use uses them that it effects my realtionship with that company. My realtionship with AFF is based on how AFF treats me - directly. I really don't give a fuck what they do to others.

Same as friends - I keep a friend based on how they treat me - not other people. Only fucking high school idiots form clicks like that.

Does Zango effect my account - probally.

Is there anything I can do about it - we're looking into codes to stop zango and will support ANYONE that wants to do legal action against them or other things to stop them from stealing from me. And I truly believe they are stealing from me and other webmasters and that is wrong.

I havn't sceen HUGE drops in my sales with AFF over zango, but it's VERY hard to prove exactly what one's losses are in a fliud situation like zango - but that doesn't mean it hasn't been a gradual loss to them and it's very VERY possible I'm loosing thousands of dollars to them every month.

I concern myself with things I can controll. If my sales with AFF fall below a profitable level I'll drop AFF and try someone else - till then my relationship with them is solid and they are profitable for me to date.

I'm not going to tell AFF what to do about zango - it's their business.

A simple business fact is if zango steals too many sales affiliates will drop aff and promote someone else. If zango is taking 10% of AFF sales - well think about it - then it's 10% EASIER for a competator to offer a better deal. If zango is taking 20% - it's 20% easier for a competator to make a better deal - and so on till it's impossible not to use someone else.

I personally fell using zango is a slippery slop - it's alredy cost them reputation. Reality is the real losses will depend on how deep zango digs into webmsters pockets.

Zango is not a method I would use personally for finanical gain - Aff may have a point in trying to regain losses to them, but if they feel they have to use zango cause they are feeling losses - then affilaites are too. :2 cents:

I continue to use AFF mostly cause they are stuck in a bad situation on this circumstance. I know the owners (both of them) PERSONALLY and if KNOW if they could find a way to make this right they would - it's very difficult though and I understand that and I know they are troubled about this and stuck between a rock and a hard place in the whole thing. It does not make sense for them to allow zango to send traffic to their competators. So what are they suppoed to do? Sending to cams.com isn't a perfect solution but it's at least something....suing them takes months to years and all traffic is lost till the lawsuit ends.

a LOT of other companies are using zango and havn't had to endure what AFF has on this board over this- companies many of the people bashing AFF are currently using.


so - now are all you fucking trolls happy knowing what I think? I doubt it - you'll all probally continue to whine at me. uggggg

Well said... :thumbsup

Go Sleazy , GO:thumbsup

That's a reasoned response that seems to make sense.

I was going to say you summed it up very well, but it was a little lengthy to be considered "summed up." :)

As I have told others, if you notice your sales dropping as a result, move on.

I don't really get why everyone is jumping on AFF, except that they love bandwagons. If you promote AFF and your income is dropping because of zango, it is pretty easy to change your links, if you have built sites with foresight.

I am sorry, I do not speak french... but i do kiss that way... :thumbsup

It's gonna be a trip seeing how things look once another Class action is filed against Zango (this time, with the clients sticking to the suit).

It all boils down to this Sleazy, you continue to promote a sponsor who has no qualms about marketing themselves via Zango. If you don't like Zango and its possible negative affects on the industry, then stop promoting the sponsors that continue to feed its revenue.

As far as AFF/Cams being in a tough dilemma, thats bullshit. Lars has stated that the revenue and traffic from Zango represents a very small portion of their overall numbers. If he was telling the truth, then there is no dilemma. Have some ethics and take a stance like other sponsors have done and do something positive for the entire industry. Most likely, the revenue lost from affiliates who stopped promoting them because of their affiliation with Zango far outweighs whatever benefit they receive from marketing via Zango. Sleazy we all know you've been promoting AFF for years and they pay you nicely to only promote them, so you're the last person I expected to have an objective viewpoint on the situation.

a-fucking-men on that one.

Take out the "love a bandwagon" hypocrites, the "love to bash AFF" trolls and sig whores and this drama loses most of its steam.

As I've said many times, continually attacking how one company chooses to do business is not the way to solve the adware problem and this broken record is getting very old.

:thumbsup :thumbsup

Perhaps people would be more acceptable of AFF/Cams actions if they were simply protecting themselves from the competitors that were trying to hijack the traffic being sent to their sites. But they're not.

They're doing the exact same thing and hijacking traffic/sales I'm trying to send to ImLive, CamCrush, Streamate, iFriends etc., not to mention the dating sites I'm trying to send traffic/sales to.

Why is AFF/Cams being focused on? Because they said. "Oh well, fuck you WMs, we're going to continue anyway" and proceeded to try and spin it. If they stopped their actions, the focus could be moved to other companies.

Changing links doesn't matter if AFF/Cams are targeting keywords in Zango that gets triggered by your sites domain for example. You could be promoting any cam site and AFF/Cams could be hijacking your traffic and sales.

greed. plain and simple. will the owners of AFF miss a meal if they don't do business with Zango? will they miss a mortgage payment? if they even lost a million dollars would it make a difference in their lives?

people are being stolen from who may miss a mortgage payment one day because of Zango and others like them. and will AFF give a shit? should they? that's their call but their public statement that they have been forced into doing business with Zango is laughable and preposterous.

Sure you could take that narrowsited approach if each individual only cared about themselves and not the state of the entire industry we operate in.

ummm, so you are suggesting that whether you are an affiliate or not, they should run their business according to how it effects you?

Similar to HATING gun violence but continuing to promote bullets? :):)

well said, sd :thumbsup

lol, so you'd be friends with a rapist as long as he wasn't raping you?

Interesting comment Sleazy, thought I am not sure I agree with you.

I guess it comes to down to each person has to vote with his/her wallet.

Matt

Everyone has a right to their opinion and to do things in their own way.

Swap out your AFF links and don't trade with someone who has them if that is what is best for you.

got zango ?`

I'm suggesting that if you don't want others to spread the word that you're stealing WM traffic and sales, drive potential affiliates away from you, work to reduce the traffic sent to your sites, then you should run your business ethically. Companies do what's best for their bottom line.. End of story. If the losses in traffic due to this issues becomes large enough, then they will change their policy.

Would you sit idly by and say and do nothing if it was shown a company was hijacking the potential customers going to gotwebhost?

Exactly. At the micro level everyone will do what is best for them until there is a macro effect.

Again, if your bottom line is being harmed move along. If enough people do this then it will affect AFF's bottom line and they will have to modify how they do things. This really doesn't make sense to me.

I will admit I haven't read much on zango, because (whether you want to accept it or not) it really doesn't effect me. So, I know a little about it, but not enough to debate its effect on the industry.

But just like I have told people privately, if people are being hit in the pocketbook, they will leave. If enough people leave, then AFF has to deal with that.

I am guessing that people aren't really feeling it financially because I haven't heard about mass exodus away from AFF or anyone else that uses zango.

As far as people trying to hijack our customers, again, I am not concerned as I know we have no competition. They may try, but they can't touch us.

so you admit to doing biz with people that steal other people's $$$$$

im not too suprised at this.

fuck zango and fuck people that do biz with them

oh i forgot one thing fuck you sleazy :1orglaugh

hrm.. i think that was the first well thought out (imo, of course) summary of this situation i've seen.

nice post sleazy

What doesn't make sense to you.

Moving away from AFF/Cams does not improve my bottom line because they continue to hijack the traffic I'm trying to send elsewhere.

The only way to improve my bottom line is for it to become more important to AFF/Cams that they stop what they're doing than continue it. And to do that, other WMs need to understand that they're also being hurt by the actions of AFF/Cams and hopefully they will stop sending sales/traffic to them as well.

Typically, I would do what most people around here do.. Burry my head in the sand and carry on. But when I saw the pop up on one of my domains, I knew I couldn't do that.

I don't get how they are stealing other people's money. Well, scratch that, I can probably creatively put myself in your situation where you think a popup is taking money from you, but let me ask you (and anyone that wants to answer) this question:

If you are promoting some solo girl site, and in her members area she is promoting some Lightspeed Girl because their traffic is similar, is she stealing from you because she isn't giving you a cut from what she makes on the LS link?

I mean, she should be concentrating on getting the rebill instead of providing that traffic leak. Right?

What about programs that have popups and don't pay you for signups they make on their exits? Are they stealing from you?

Do you not send traffic to any of these types of programs?

Like I said, I haven't been reading enough to know all the details . . . but is AFF the one installing zango on the surfers pc? Doesn't the surfer have to have installed it of their own free will?

I agree, people telling you not to use a sponsor because of the sponsors relationship with someone else is crossing a line.

But, general industry ethics discussions are good and valid. Even making general statements on the board that people should drop AFF is valid - but no 1 person should become a target.

I'd say no one should become a target except for those directly accepting zango traffic. :2 cents:

easy answer to your question when i promote a pps sponsor or a revshare sponsor what i dont get credit for everything i choose to promote them my choice the payout i get is based on what i dont get credit for but i dont remember ever promoting zango and allowing them to do anything with my traffic they make me $0.

So, your gripe should be with zango I would think.

no the gripe is with anyone that buys their traffic if no one buys it its worthless.

its like buying stolen shit its one thing to buy something that you think might be stolen but another thing if you know it was stolen.

anyone buying from zango knows it stolen or by now should know it is.

Sorry, I don't see how it is stolen unless zango is a virus that was installed on the surfers machine without their knowledge.

From what I have gathered, zango is offering something to the surfer (not sure what) via toolbar. Right? Toolbars aren't exactly new, and I believe they have always been profitable.

I thought I read that someone has a script to disable it. I would think utilizing this would be a smart way to go. No?

In an ideal world but we know that's not the case... i.e. the 3M settlement due to "affiliates" installing Zango on unsuspecting surfers and also the "difficult" uninstall process.

Regardless, it's AFF/Cams giving money to Zango and buying the keywords that hijack my traffic.

The ones that murder using guns are the ones thrown in jail, not the gun companies. i.e. AFF/Cams is freely making the choice to use Zango and hijack my traffic.

stolen traffic is stolen traffic no matter how you spin it buddy.

I have a very simple question. If AFF/ALT/CAMS are stealing a huge portion of my signups, then why do they still convert so well?

Do you think I'd still be flying their banners and pouring money into adwords if they were jacking my commissions at a significant level?

The answer is no. I'm not in this game for brownie points. I'm in it because I love making money online. If they stop converting I will drop them, just as they would stop paying me if my conversions tanked.

Please tell me why I continue to receive checks from the Lars crew if they are jacking my signups. I'd love to hear it.

You think I'm in some special whitelist that doesn't get popped from Zango? Give me a break. Lars doesn't even know who I am. The last time I asked him a direct question in a thread he suggested I contact my affiliate manager.

All of that being said, I am anti-Zango to the core. But knocking my income down many notches to make a point would be idiotic.

If they are stealing from me by paying me, then they have my permission to do so. Lars and company: please keep stealing from me...I love the checks.

so what you're saying is that its ok to steal as long as its not too much ?
or not from your pocket.

way to go

This is what I would think is common logic.

BTW, I love your traffic. No harm no foul in this one. I respectfully agree to disagree.

:)

Do you know any AFF affiliates that are noticing decreased paychecks? I don't.

Not at all. If they are stealing from me then why are they still converting so well for me?

Answer that simple question.

and does that makes it ok ?

If you're promoting AFF, then your sales don't get stolen by AFF anymore since they apparently fixed the cookie thing. So as long as their poping AFF over your AFF stuff, you'll get the sale.

But if you try something else, then they could be effecting your conversions with that other program due to hijacking some of your traffic.

In other words.. If YOU ADVERTISE 100% AFF/Cams and absolutely nothing else, then carry on.

Anything else you may advertise (like competing cam/dating sites), well then you may be losing traffic/sales to aff/cams.

So if they're not stealing from you its ok ?

It is affecting you directly... From what I understand 0,5 to 2 % of your sales were stolen for you directly by AFF (using Zango as a tool to kinda shave).

I might be wrong but from the threads I read they replaced affiliate cookies by their own using that method.

But I can agree that using aFF or not is your own decision and the money that come in at the end of the day is what matters. Zango aren't gonna be there in a year or two from now but AFF will be.

P.S. With the payouts they are giving to affiliates, it's just normal that they have to use such tactics to turn in a profit.

For the record, I am not "in bed" with aff/cams. I also promote Pussy Cash and Dating Gold. I suggest others do the same. Try them all.

I have so many sites that "they" couldn't possibly know everything that I run.

I am not denying that this is going on, but I do think it's being blown out of proportion in terms of aff/cams.

Click the "free porn" link in my sig. What cams and dating sponsors have the fat banners? Not aff/cams at the moment.

I do still promote their properties, however, and I still get a check from them twice a month like clockwork. Sometimes big, sometimes small, but no complaints.