The Iraq war. What are your feelings now?
 

A few years ago, there seemed to be a very much pro Bush and pro war feeling from most of you in the USA, almost not beliving that others outside the USA thought it wrong.

So how do you feel now?

In the UK, I think 80% or more are against the war and glad Blair is now going.

And in other countries the mood also seems to be against the war.

Also from the news in the UK you get the feeling people are now turning against Bush.

so what are your feelings now?

Get the F out of course! that goes without saying

so have your thoughts changed or did you think this from the start?

Happy to be the first here to rant:

I have always believed that the President was misleading us to believe what he wanted to be the truth. It was obvious in the intelligence evidence from the beginning. It was too vague, and I never saw any actual proof, just speculation and artist renditions of what weapons look like and where they might be.
The changes in our laws and the insult to the Constitution that has come out of this, namely the Patriot Act is a joke.

"WMD" was the biggest, meaningless catch phrase since Nancy Regan came up with "Just say no"
The President lied to us.
From what we know now, our actions amount up to an actual invasion.
Our troops answered the call to defend , what they were told, was a threat to America, and to get the bastard that bombed the WTC.
Bush is an unintelligent ass,
Cheney is a crook.
The only respect I have for the people in this administration is for the ones that quit.

Why is the Vice president allowed to be on the board of a company that supplies the military with food and gas, as well as, other supplies, and how come no one sees that as conspicuous circumstances and timing?

It's time to bring everyone home, and rebuild our military.
Fuck Iraq, let them figure it or for themselves, and use our resources to protect our country here, on our own soil.

The next time some shit jumps off, let the rest of the world do something.
That's all I got.

Complete waste of time and money... Bush is probably the worst President in U.S history.. drove the economy down and sent his people to war becuz he thought someone had WMD! Jokez

Bomber

waste of time, money, and lives.........

http://www.pckate.com/blog/blogbanner_torture1.png

ADG

I could care less about Bush but I honestly believe that we had more than ample reason to go into Iraq and kick arse. While everyone hypes up the WMD arguement, well, there was a list of a dozen or so reasons why we went in - gross violations of prior terms set up with Iraq after the 1991 Gulf War including them shooting at US warplanes.

Shoot at a US Warplane and we'll invade your country and destroy your government. That sends a pretty clear message to others.

i know i hate being lied to :(

?If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the thereat posed by Iraq?s weapons of mass destruction program? President Bill Clinton Feb. 17, 1998

?I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -if necessary - to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security.? Sen. John F Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

?We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country.? Al Gore, Sept. 23 2002

?We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction.? Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

?We must stop Saddam from ever again jeopardizing the stability and security of his neighbors with weapons of mass destruction.? Madeline Albright, Feb. 1, 1998

?He (Saddam Hussein) will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 19983.? Sandy Berger (Clinton National Security Adviser), Feb. 18, 1998

?Saddam Hussein has been engaged in development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspections process.? Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA) Dec. 16 1998

I know I hate being lied to what the fuck seriously?

?If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the thereat posed by Iraq?s weapons of mass destruction program? President Bill Clinton Feb. 17, 1998

?I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -if necessary - to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security.? Sen. John F Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

?We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country.? Al Gore, Sept. 23 2002

?We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction.? Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

?We must stop Saddam from ever again jeopardizing the stability and security of his neighbors with weapons of mass destruction.? Madeline Albright, Feb. 1, 1998

?He (Saddam Hussein) will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 19983.? Sandy Berger (Clinton National Security Adviser), Feb. 18, 1998

?Saddam Hussein has been engaged in development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspections process.? Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA) Dec. 16 1998

I never understood how half the country could actually think it was a good idea to put someone in charge of our country, who today, probably couldn't even pass a highschool SAT test.

Clinton dropped more bombs on Iraq than in the first Gulf War

The Gulf War never ended it was a cease fire.

Who cares about the war, Hello!, Paris Hilton is in jail....

drop a bomb on them...

"When the economy is good, you can bomb Jerusalem, and nobody will give a shit."
-Me
At least in the first one, WE ACTUALLY FOUND MISSILES! He was shooting them at Israel!
Case closed.

I think if we just increase spending, everything will be fine. Imagine what we could have done fighting terrorism with ALL THAT MONEY AND ALL THOSE RESOURCES wasted in Iraq! WOW that was a huge mistake. Epic might be a better word to describe it. Epic mistake.

You remember the day that Colin Powell was used as the dummy to present what was described as "evidence" to the UN? That was prob the last straw in a lack of credibility in the US admin.

It never did need *any* security service or intelligence to know this was a charade. Even the photographs presented as "evidence" had already been published and discounted by press on the ground at these locations.

Will always remember a two second reaction in a CNN press interview with Hans Blick within days prior to the invasion, when he was asked "When US troops invade, do you think Iraqi troops will use nuclear weapons?" The guy stopped for a second, obviously stunned that he was being asked this stupid question - then smiled and answered with a hint of sarcasm, "No, I don't think they will somehow". It was already well-known the whole charade was a farce.

Hell.. can even remember predicting while Rummy's bullshit "Shock and Awe" was in progress that this will be yet another "Vietnam" - and ... low and behold... Intelligence services must be very severely mentally incapacitated to not have a clue of this already - but don't think they were not aware, just in the land of nod and with very little clue of the "way it is" in that region (still think they are totally clueless on this).

OK.. my :2 cents: - the instigators of the Iraq scenario are accountable. They are responsible for the severe hardship, death and injuries of many people (on both sides). I'd go as far to say their action was far worse than any serial killer. There is also the economic cost to their own countries - that has got to be one of the biggest economic disasters ever. Again - they are responsible - no one else.

Equally, both the US and the UK have no business whatsover in the Middle East - they should not even be there. The UK has had a history of screwing up that region and the newcomer on the block (US) has done the same, but with slightly different agenda - the current one being greed and screwing more oil from the region. Bets on, that will never happen.

There are wars and wars - most have been "honorable wars" and had fairly universal support. The other kind, such as in Iraq, are both dishonorable and repugnant to any civilized person. Ultimately, there is a "real cost" to this and I'd have total sympathy for the victims in that real cost (they are usually innocent people) - but always remember who are the main culpable parties. For these people, I have not one ounce of sympathy - they deserve an equal dose of the hell they created for others.

I think it's called karma :pimp

I feel that nation building is a long term endeavor, and that things are going fine.

I feel our country has gone soft.

I feel the Dems are traitors, and using the war for partisan purposes with a loss to our national security.

I feel our worst enemies are within.

:(

Are you admitting to something here?



Bush is a major disaster. The USA needs to apply for disaster relief after Bush is thrown out of office on his arse.

I'll answer this - simply because your post is beyond the realms of stupidity.

It is not any business of any country to assume some "rights" to "nation building" in another country. This simply demonstrates total arrogance and stupidity.

Soft?? On who exactly?? Al Queda perhaps??


Enter the national disease - it's all the fault of some political party in the US. News for ya - the world does not give a flying fuck about any political party in the US - they are irrelevant.

Suggest you immediately sign up with US forces and get into the front line and support the country you believe in so much :thumbsup

What I've been thinking since the begining: thats its bullshit.

OH SHIT YA! I LOVE IT!
POST OF THE MONTH!

IllTestYourGirls


made some very valid points . . Al Gore 2000 loser for the Iraq war ... John Kerry 2004 loser for the Iraq war


all of them democrats were for the Iraq war .. so the team leader mr. President made a good decision . . his camp . .the republicans said yes .. the opposition .. the democrats said yes .. so what he gonna do ? say no ?? ? fuckk no .. he be the team leader he not be makin decisions all the time on his own .. normal people dont understand that

if your team says yes .. the other tream says yes ? what is he going to do ? say NO ? ?

Saddam was a threat for a very long time .. and if you know how the world works it was very clear that he was a threat that had to be dealt with .. it was done . . not an easy way . . but it was handled

so right now ? what to do ? what to do ? them people dont like US presence is what the media is trying to make you believe . .

but is it true ? you do know who owns some of the media ? and you do know that you choose what media to follow ? you follow media that shares your point of view

media is being used for political agendas . . and right SOME media is PARANOIA . . they dont want 4 more republican years . .and they are doing EVERYTHING to make sure that wont happen

the game is dirty . . small minds are being played with .. the small minds can vote

Chesterfield ! fuckk yeah .. not that good of a post but an intelligent one . .love your nickname am ordering a chesterfield couch next week :thumbsup

Fuck your US airplanes. keep them out of foreign sovereign airspace and nobody will shoot at them ... :2 cents:

No Fly Zone is not a UN sanction, or part of any peace treaty... it was a unilateral violation by the US and the UK ( and France at the very beginning ).

Get informed!!!!!

Actually, there have been many war profiteers, as the Bush Administration has taken privatized war-making to a new level, so that companies led by political contributors can pocket lots of money at the expense of our soldiers and the people that are dying, while the taxpayers pay for it.

One of my biggest concerns is the funding and arming of what amount to private mercenary armies. How long I wonder, before these partisan para-military forces are turned against our own country? They are getting their training today in Iraq, and elsewhere around the world.

Please take less than five minutes and check out this YouTube Video About Blackwater.

The following article is condensed - Read the entire article HERE.

ADG

A few things its funny when they blame the democrats for being pussys when most of them serviced during vietnam but most of the republicans are draft dodgers.Also the Republican president said osama dead or alive this motherfucker killed 3000 of my fellow citizens.Where the fuck is he and the right doesnt talk about that.If there was a draft for this war tomorrow,the right would be calling for it to be over so quick it wouldnt be funny. Its easy to be for a war that doesnt cost you anything personally.Also over 60 percent of this country want us out of the war.

War is all about profit.

Stick to spamming ref links...

Sure... noticed this stuff for a while now. The old term was "contractor", and still is, but with expanded sphere of operation. "Contractors" use to deal with stuff the "official govt" could not touch (ie CIA operations at hands length etc).

It's clear that now includes mercenaries dressed up as "contractors" and employed by corps which rip off big time. At the same time, these are the people being used to commit offenses where conventional troops would have a problem.

Shit.. only me, but if I was on some opposing side with a country that conducts it's wars with hired help - they are first in line for a bullet in the head and have no sympathy for em. (Tho - still feel sorry for the guy who does this kinda whoring to earn a living).

On the subject of "sympathy" - just think it is totally disgusting to see kids of 17-18 upwards being sent to a war zone based on the agenda of a perverse idiot. I'd never wish that on any kid - the effects can be long lasting and they have little chance against experienced fighters. Saw a clip on TV recently - three "soldiers" in Iraq around 18 years - hell, they were still stuck to their video games - sad shit.

Back to the economy - firmly believe (after the war is over and a priority) the economy is seriously screwed and suspect to an extent we don't actually know about yet. Can't see any change in this but downwards for ... who knows? Ten years ahead? This is going to cause severe damage all round - both internationally and on the domestic front. It's hard to conceive that the extent of the damage could have happened in.. around 5-6 years. Suspect the US is already at risk on the economic front - especially where other nations are holding large levels of loans, and, tho nobody wants to rock the boat - it prob would not take much for problems to surface.

Give you an example of "confidence" - there was a trade deal with China signed recently for the mutual trading in cars etc. This would have given US car manufacturers an opening to the Chinese market and same with China. But... the US implements... think 2% on Chinese cars and China then slaps 25% duty on US cars. Basically they don't give a shit - the Central Bank of China is already holding more dollars than they want and have an upper hand. It's the old debt-ridden corp scenario where the bank can break the corp any time it likes.

It's kinda stunning that this scenario has been allowed to progress like this and, you are 100% correct, the bill at the end of the day will be presented to US taxpayers - tho they really had little say in the accumulation of that bill. Sad times.

I honestly believe we had every right to go into Afghanistan. Essentially the entire world agreed -- The United States had the golden ticket, a free pass. The entire world, for the first time in years, wasn't pissed at us. The entire world MOURNED for us. The entire world wanted us to have JUSTICE. So we invaded. And for a while, it was truly just. It appeared that we could right what was wrong. It appeared that we could create a beacon of peace in the middle east through swift action and diplomacy.

Then the Iraq "war" happened.

Now look at us.

You have MORE American resentment than you did before 9-11. You have MORE people distrusting us, MORE people hating us... and all of that hate, all of that distrust, all of that disgust is the fault of the Bush administration. We went from having almost the entire world behind us in Afghanistan to the entire world hating us because of Iraq. We went from having a shot at actually bringing some stability in the middle east to creating an environment that breeds terrorists.

To be fair, all of this shouldn't be placed on the administration. The mainstream media played its part perfectly in gaining support to invade Iraq. They stopped asking one of the most important questions in American history "where is Osama Bin Laden?" and instead started to ask ones that took us in the wrong direction, namely about Saddam and his magic WMD stockpiles. We ignored the UN, we decided to go with junk intelligence. We ignored the world.... our soldiers are paying the price.

So there you have it. We’re in a “war” with no end in sight. 70,000 innocent Iraqis lay dead. More than 3,400 American soldiers are dead. More than 275 coalition deaths. And my god… the wounded in this war is unthinkable. There is no telling how many Iraqis lay maimed, how many are limbless, how many have completely lost their quality of life. Our own soldiers injuries have surpassed 25,000, many of which have lost entire limbs, their eyesight, their hearing.

I never agreed with the Iraq “war”. The reasons for going in were fabricated… many documents were forged, bogus testimony was believed by the most untrustworthy of sources. Saddam, as ruthless as he was, provided stability in Iraq. He didn’t put up with any bullshit and his country was “free” of terrorists. Sure he was a dick, sure he was dangerous – but not the United States nor the civilized world or anyone immediately outside of his region.

Here’s to getting out of Iraq before 2020. Cheers. :glugglug

Cool couch! You'll have to have us all over to discuss this topic and try out your new couch.

Webby and notabook are posting gold. You are saying what I'm thinking! Thank you!

haha.. i'm pretty conservative and even i thought that was bizarre. for people ranting and raving about an air tight case... they definately never proved it.

Would agree with that notabook and that there was international support for that action. It would prob fall into the category of an "honorable war".

Would also add... when someone takes a shot at ya, the immediate instinct is to hit back, but on a higher level this may not be prudent. There are plenty ways of skinning a cat and possibly more effective ways - no hurry and plenty time to do it capturing your "opponent" unawares.

Who knows and I sure don't, but smell (in addition to the Afghanistan operation, tho not letting that mess up the longer term goal) it may have been better to "gear up" (with personnel, language training and extended intell etc) and conduct covert operations and attempt to strike at the heart of Al Queda operations - almost to the same level Al Queda elect to use and with the aim of terminating leadership and command structure. This is not a "war" as such, but sustained strikes at where it matters - and no need to have much public discussion over it.

People like Al Queda have never been "beaten" by conventional forces - it has been the same pattern in many countries for centuries. The total flipside to this is often these types of opponents have ultimately sat down at a conference table and, over time, a resolution has been found. (Same scenario, tho different geo situation with the IRA etc).

Still think the instant desire to act was, least in this instance, an error - with declarations of a "War on Terrorism" etc. That type of war is never winnable.
The effect his been an increased support for Al Queda and spreading of sympathetic groups internationally - making the final goal more difficult to achieve.

This is almost like the mentality of a good cop - they will not rush out and have a tantrum without intelligence and background data. They may take a year or so (and sometimes a lot longer) establishing "associations", planting undercover officers etc - then hit when it's least expected.

Sure... the stupid attention paid to Iraq ruined the whole scenario and cost the US a lot of cred internationally.

I remember watching Mr Powell and Tenet and Negropointe behind him and just had a gutty feeling there was a setup going on. When the pictures were flashed on the screen as being something "new" - that was it :-) The same images were already published months earlier in the press and with accounts of the times the press visited these locations and found nothing interesting.

Got plenty respect for Colin Powell and still feel he thought he was presenting a valid case.

Is internet porn ok under sharia law ?

Nation building is essential because democracies don't export terror.

Lets get real US troops will be there the next 10 years and total cost will exceed well over 1 trillion dollars. If the American public knew what they were signing up for when supporting this war back in 2002/2003 , Bush never would of pulled it off.

Our kids will be taught that the decision to go to war in Iraq was the worst foreign policy move in US history. That will be a historical fact soon, if it isn't already.

Since when were you the decider of what other nations should do?? Duh?

Just stay right where you are and quit messing with other people and clean your own backyard up. It currently smells like a sewer.

If you want to ask who exports terror - check the arms exports of the US. You could also ask the survivors/families about the terror they suffered thanks to the torture trainers at SOA.

I think it's pretty clear now to anybody with half a brain that it was a bad idea going to Iraq and that the guys who were saying that invading Iraq would end up turing into a occupation were US troops would have to stay for years causing 100's of thousands of lives and billions of dollars were right. It's also clear the Bush Admin is full of shit.. I think it's losing support in the US heart land very quickly too and the end is near. I give it a few more years max before the US people start demanding the troops come home and the US will pull out. Just my 2 cents.

Peace

do you have any actually facts to proof you are so so right on this ?


- problem with your thinkin
- will be explained


all your thinkin is based on speculation .. thats a problem .. think about it .. yes you speculate that he was not a problem .. yes you speculate that he had no intentions in our direction . . but how do YOU know that ? cant imagine you have em on speed dial and that he was actually informing you about every move he was going to make

two words : terror funding

thats the problem . he does not like the US . he has lots of money . what he be doing with his dollars ?

we dont know .. have no idea .. is he makin large donations to certain organisations without our knowledge ? we dont know . can we stop him .. yes we can and we did

crazy people in charge of countries with lots of monies is NOT a safe situation and SHOULD BE seen as a threat


for that reason Iran is not that much of a problem .. them bitches are broke . .well as good as . . :warning

sure only 4 important rules for internet porn

- no sex
- no nudity
- no camera
- make lots $$


thats sharia law .. sell nothing .. make money . . cool system . it works :thumbsup

"FUCK IRAQ! FUCK AFGHANISTAN! AND FUCK..THE FUCKIN" DIAZ BROTHERS"
"WE'LL BURY THOSE COCKROACHES!"

http://blogs.smh.com.au/entertainmen...carface470.jpg

If poeple knew back then, what would happen in Iraq now, they would of never gone in.
Iraq war just created more terrorist. Us made a bad mistake going there, now their stuck there, and probably won't be able to leave for the next 10-15 years.

http://www.bloggerheads.com/abu_ghra...torture_01.jpg

http://www.ontheissues.org/Abu_Ghraib.jpg

http://bottleofblog.typepad.com/phot...d/torture5.jpg

http://www.knowledgedrivenrevolution...mo_Outside.jpg

ADG

same as they have been since the start

the war was not necessary and was making a short list of people a lot of money

wait until Iran gets some nukes, then things will really heat up.

Literally!:helpme