an interesting statement about tube sites
 

I just updated my blog (see sig for shameless promotion) with a post about a friend of mine. We were talking about the online biz (he works for a gun shop that sells some stuff online) and he tells me about the game they play at work where they surf tube sites (he actually said, "we surf redtube") and email each other nasty videos. then he says, "Those sites can't be good for you." We talk for a few about them and he continues to say, "I will never join another paysite with those tubes around. Why should I, those tubes are better than half the paysites out there."

It was pretty telling. Obviously he has been inside some shitty paysites, but he is also very happy with what the tubes are giving him for free. This is a guy who buys memberships and has had a membership to one site or another just about non-stop for the last 3-4 years. Now he doesn't have a membership and has no desire to ever have one again.

Not good.

A friend of mine that I partyed with tonight told me that he loved youporn and that he surfed it whenever in "need" so to speak, he had heard some guy talking tonight about Redtube though and that they have longer videos, he was gonna check it out......

Would that mean they are also not buying anything advertised on the tube sites?

The friend I reffered to above joined AFF last week because there was some hottie in his (our) hometown on profile :1orglaugh :Oh crap

check out this comment from a surfer regarding a legal tube .. :(

Jeeves UK
( 2 hours ago )

Checked this web out and didn't find anything worthwhile there. Found much better films elsewhere. Also much too much advertisements there and strange directions that took me to a web that wanted my credit card number for some reason. I don't think I'll be visiting again. Thank you anyway mate.

I asked my friend about that and he said no he hasn't bought anything from the ads on the tube sites. As he says, "they are all the same and I just ignore them."

When I play Counterstrike and the talk turns to porn all of the guys say they go to either tube sites or torrent sites. No one would even think about paying.

I have to see that as being the norm more and more as time goes by. Even Google came out and said they don't know how to make money from Youtube. In fact, they make so little from it they don't even include it on the balance sheets.

I'm assuming the tube sites will die out as earnings start to fall and either go away or the big ones with brand recognition will morph into the new standard for MGPs, just in a "tube style" layout.

i can see that.

Most counterstrike players are probably kids anyway, who don't have credit cards, and so wouldn't be able to buy membership anyway...

yep I agree. I think eventually their advertising will stagnate. They can't make much selling paysites and dating and cams will get old and eventually they will have to change.

For tube sites the biggest cost is bandwidth and as long as the cost of BW keep going down they will keep going. COGENT is selling $4/megs (you have to get a 10G port) and this cost will go down, not up as time goes. The encoding technology is getting better so now days you can push very high quality video for less bandwidth.

They dont pay for content and they dont spend on marketing....so margins must be good.

it is not going to happen, the BW is getting cheaper + most people don't have a clue what AFF or a REAL lifetime cam revshare COULD make you in a long run, the top tubes will be making shitload of moeny for years to come even if they takes their sites down right now

You could be right, but there seems to be arguments on both sides. For example, what was with all the sales rumors not long ago. Unless those were false, why would people be trying to sell such a cash cow so soon after it's become successful? Thieves or not, the big tube sites were started by people who can smell change and they will bail out as fast as they got in if they sense trouble IMHO.

Funny thing is if someone could ever look at the books for one of these tube sites you could predict their future in about 5 minutes.

Those kind of guys will enver buy anything anyways. If they are satisfied with the crap that redtube and others are then they weren't never going to buy anways. I've been to the tubes including redtube. It pretty much sucks. Navigation is poor. Video quality isn't much better than what you get from a 3 clip gallery on a TGP.

Personally I'm picky. I might have to surf for a couple of hours before I find something that's even remotely passable as jack-off material.

Majority of sites provide the quality videos of Tube Sites so the customers are failing to see the difference. SO everyone really is suffering to a high degree on conversions, but at the same time promoting sites offering lame compressed DVD porno clips for a premium is not going to impress anyone it will not make big cash and limits what webmasters offer surfers.

Thats not the whole reason, another reason people are not subscribing is because even low quality tube videos "Do the trick" for many surfers.

The Top quality sites are worth paying for, no doubt about it but when compared to free its always going to be a tough sell.

Twisty's is a good example of providing content worth paying for, so is Playboy, so is Cybererotica, so is FTVGirls. Many Solo Girl sites are worth paying for as well so long as there is an interest to see more.

But again if dudes are pressed to pull out a credit card or watch free clips to get off to, they gonna go with the free clips. Torrents are killing us all thats a whole nother topic, not much loss in quality on them torrents and some of the content on them is excellent beyond even great pay sites in playback.

What kane is saying is that there is a certain percentage of people that used to buy memberships to paysites that no longer need to any more because of some of the tube sites giving away full clips.

This is lost revenue.

Just like how Craig's list killed millions of dollars of revenue for newspaper want adds.

That revenue is was just lost.

Craig's list does not make generate anywhere near the revenue compared to what all the newspaper add revenues for all the newspapers generated individually.

That is just lost revenue. :(

on that note, I have personally always been a "as long as I can see the action i don't care about quality" kind of guys

hell, if all their is around is a vhs tape that barely has video, i am game....just pop it in, wack it and turn it off

And now people have more money to spend somewhere else :D

I am the same way LOL, I put my mind just like a surfer does as I have to alot of the time just to make good convincing designs and I pretty much have the outlook of a surfer when it comes to finding good stuff. I go beyond going "Wow that chick is hot I think I will promote her!", No I think yeah I would hit that, she has alot of things "I like in a girl" Honestly I even subscribed to sites but the really good ones.

It really has gottin to the point of not worth paying for, not even the really good ones can beat free. Lets see... Here is my line of thought.

24.95 A month VS. FREE?

Humm? Uhh fuck off unless it happens to be that exclusive Brunette I am kinda curious about. OH wait thats a phony site anyways, its just a canned solo girl site. She aint live in that site or maintain it herself...

Or how about this.

3 Free Trial VS. FREE?

Na I rather click over to another video thats free, why bother me with getting the credit card, sneak in the wallet? Besides I rather not even put my name into something thats going to hastle me if I do not cancil.

Or how about this.

3 FREE DAY TRIAL Plus prechecked cross sales and access to 50 sites?

Hell's no I am just looking for a hot brunette fuck that I aint got time cancil 2 to 3 memberships... What the fuck I dont got time to check all that shit out!

Now those are just the very basics and some of the tricks I use to determine alot of things about a site in not only my surfing habits but my design habits as well. Oddly many program owners do not even understand those basics let alone anything advanced about deciding to pay for a site.

We come to the age where the surfer is far more smart than the average webmaster. Not many more dirty tricks realyl work, phony shit can be smelt a mile away and any kind of descrepancy in what is offered seems a little off can spook a surfer far away even when they might have considered paying...

Now all of the above in my previous statement covers about 95% of the adult subscription sites out on the net today. Thats seriously no joke and webmaster's are very limited in offering what can actually transact.

FTV for example, who the fuck does not promote FTV? we all do! Why?
So we wonder why ratio's hurt? LOL! We all promote Twisty's thats a fucking given as well.

So surfers are exposed to about maybe 15 sites that are worth paying for, the rest is total shit and we all sell the same thing! There is alot of money to be made still but tapping the genuine effort to create a quality site goes beyond what most webmasters are willing to do.

Solo Girl sites that are serious with a participating model that loves the work tend to do great these days, at least for me ghee I wonder why??? :) I am speaking from my own promotions as well to a degree, I do better with solo girls than most any other type of subscription site.

There are a ton of reasons why many programs are epic failures and close shop within 6 months of openning. The above are just a couple of the reasons.

And now I will shut up, the lesson is over.

In many cases I would agree. With this guy when I asked him how long he had been a member to other sites over the last three years he said out of 36 months he has probably been a paying member of a site for around 30 months. He had joined 8-9 different sites over that time. When I asked if he just joined, downloaded he whole members area and then canceled he said no, he downloaded what he liked, but not a whole lot. So this guy is a perfect customer, he buys, doesn't download or use torrents and keeps paying, but now he is gone.

He'll be back when he learns tubes are crap. fcat is say paysite go out of busines sbecause of this. well then where is the new content for the tubes goingot come from? Now someon might say ther's plenty of old content out ther to last for years. Well maybe, but why do they make so much porn now anyways? Because it gets old fast and guys want something/someone newer fresher. sure 70's, 80's and 90's porn appeal to a certain group but populate a tube full of nothing but pornf rom the 70's adn see how many people you get to come back. Not many. Why not? It's FREE and the guys probably haven't seen 99.99% of it. Because guys want the freshest newest just turned 18 slut off the bus from Nebraksa getting gangfucked by 5 black dudes. If porn companies can't make money off their new movies they won't make any. I wouldn't.

Yes, the "age" of the "dirty tricks" working ended about 8 years ago. Now it's all about offering a quality product that satisfies the niche. There are not and never will be any tube site that can do what a well thought out solo girl site can do.
And when I say "well thought out" I'm not talking about a site with some fancy design that has a flawless, skinny girl with breathtaking photography that is airbrushed to hell and back.

I'm talking about giving surfers in a particular niche exactly what they want. If you know your niche inside and out, have a model who is REAL (loves sex, is an exhibitionist, does the same things in "real" life that she does on her website)...then you are pretty much untouchable.

Having said that...I do think that Tube sites are definitely hurting the "mega" sites that basically have a "theme" and then hire every porn slut in L.A. to shoot. I can't make a sale for those sites anymore. I went 0:23,762 last month for one of the biggest affiliate programs out there. One that I have been an affiliate of since they first opened many years ago. I'm still getting checks from rebills from back when they sold like hotcakes. But for the last year or two...nothing.

And their shit is saturated on tube and torrent sites. It's killing them because their members area can't offer anything more than the tube and torrent sites do.

They present 100 L.A. "pornstar" girls that also shoot for every other "mega" site fucking the same dozen or so guys that work for that same "modeling" company in L.A. so that hurts them already. But then you throw in all their members areas at tube and torrent sites and it is destroying their new sales.

I hate it for them because I know for a fact how much money and time they put into their production.

But with no end in site for tube and torrents...I would say that the big companies like that could learn a thing or two from the small one-man shows like me and could turn this thing around. But not with the current business model of the mega site.

In the meantime, be smart and promote solo girl sites. You can start here: SOLOSLUTCASH :)

Jesus christ I got interested in this topic till I had to start reading a novel, thanks guys!

I am amazed that this is still an argument. Clearly tube sites are hurting sales. Just a heads up but TGP's hurt sales and now tube sites give away more porn and hurting sales worse. If you honestly can't see that you are semi retarded. But 90% of us are going to do nothing about it.

The industry itself is largely to blame for the mess its in.

All of my friends who used to join pay sites, no longer do. They get all their porn from Tube sites and Torrents. Me too. I used to join a site here and there, now there is no need.

Congrats to all the winners!

its something that was going to happen sooner or later anyway. the internet makes the anon distribution of intellectual property easy. first it was music, then porn, movies soon to come

Doing the same thing but I have free passes to some paysites. I never use them to look at porn, I just go to a tube.

Forums are the big ones, and they are getting bigger... easy to use for even a beginner surfer, and they have all of the quality paysite rips and sologirl site rips that were mentioned and its all organized into easy to find threads

and those forums are getting linked and filling the search engines so any casual surfer that knows how to use google will find them sooner or later

tubes only benefit the surfer.

The only real things tube sites have over paysites, besides being free is variety. You can watch softcore strip vids or hardcore fucked up jap porn all in one place.

Ive been told by many that the forums are THE SHIT for high end photo sites and solo girl content.

That's short term. And surfers aren't dumb either...I have started actually joining the forums where I have found threads with our stolen content listed. I go on and identify myself and then I explain to the guys that they are being used by some asshole to gather stolen content for him. And that the owner of the tubes, torrents, and the forums whose specialty is listing them are getting pre-paid spots from you know who and lining their pockets off of my work all in the guise of "free" porn. I further tell them what it does to us and our bottom line and how if it continues it will eventually stop any new porn from being produced.
And you know what? Everytime I've done that it worked.
The guys on the forums who were doing it to me not only stopped...but they are like a new network of guys who write me and tell me when they see our shit out there.
They were pissed!
They THOUGHT they were sticking it to "the man" by getting free porn. But when they found out they were really lining a thiefs' pockets while hurting Claudia-Marie financially...it pissed 'em off and they changed their position.
I've often thought about attempting some kind of "surfer education" on my sites...but I don't want to basically give those forums, torrents, and tubes any free advertising by talking about them.

The only solution I can think of would be being able to protect your content, which so far is basically impossible.

with DRM someone can easily use a screen recorder to get an unprotected version - not to mention that you apparently can't even use DRM with Macs.

If some sort of technology was released similar to DRM but unable to be cracked with a screen recorder, and able to be used on both PC and MAC, I'm sure that would help out a lot of paysites with rich/exclusive content that surfers are willing to pay for.

Would be nice but don't hold your breath.

tubes suck torrent suck. I am baffeled by those that use them. Sure download a 20 mintue scene form a torrent in only 2 days WTF? I'd rather join a paysite and jerk off NOW. Tubes? rarely have any content I would be looking for. Maybe I'm goingot the wrong ones. Please enlighten me to the tubes that have all these HQ full length movies because I can't find any.

If that is what you have to offer for "lessons" then you need to go back to school. :disgust

Start with your vast over simplifications...
"95% of the sites are the same."
"Everyone is suffering."
"Everyone's sales and ratios are going down"

So start with the use of 'all', 'everyone', 'never' and 'always', and how you should not use them in your over simplifications. Many of us have grown every year while others are hurting.

You want a tip?
Many surfers (notice the use of language here toots.. not 'all', or 'every') are tired of sites that update 4 times a year, or once a week and demand $24-49 a month.

Your smart and its true they think they are part of a movement .

:2 cents:

I think ya just put yer foot in yer mouth.
Why ya always hatin on me? I am about to tell ya to fuck yourself.

I do not know you.
I do not hate on you.
I agree with you when you are right on things. Disagree when you are wrong.
I simply am correcting, and addressing your statement(s).

There are a number of us who have not been hit in our ratios. Sales are higher this year then last, and higher then the year before.

I'd concede, if you had stated that, some of the big programs are hurting. Particularly those who rerun the same bullshit. Or those cookie cutters who only update once a week, or a dozen times a year. But that was not your statement.

While some of the industry is hurting. Some are unaffected. Some simply do not change, and are trying the same old late 90's, early 2000 tactics of throwing shit at the wall and hoping enough sticks. Not learning how to actually "convert" a sale. Thinking giving away everything for free is a smart idea instead of innovating.

But I digress...

I also wonder if the Feds will wise up and realize that tube 2257 documentation might be an issue, especially for the amateur stuff that wasn't stolen from a compliant video; I hope DOJ/FBI start going after them!

Dave

I think the problem with that is, most of them are overseas not in the usa.

I think the number of CS players in the age above 18 is PRETTY high.

Anyway, most of my friends surf tube sites too!

Yeah the cable guy that came out to my house and installed high def was asking what I did for a living. I gave him a brief overview and he asked me if I knew about the tubes. His response was generally the same, stating why would anyone in their right minds pay for a membership when its offered for free. :disgust

That exactly corresponds with my experience, and I am talking about guys who can afford to buy themselves escorts every other day and used to also join paysites before just for fun.

The picture quality and variety of the stolen content that's now on the tube sites is pretty good, it's enough to satisfy me and anyone else I know, apart from yourself I suppose.