12clicks' Position On Cross Sales
 

After reading the rash of threads recently regarding cross sales, it's clear that most people don't know much more about the subject other than whatever it is that's been yelled the loudest on the boards. As someone who is in the cross sale business, I thought I would respond to the hysteria.

Pre-checked cross sales are a legal, commonly used way of doing business that both Visa and Mastercard allow. When done correctly (as in, how I do it) there is a huge benefit to the program owner with very little risk. There is also a correct way to handle the surfer so as not to scare them away from adult sites altogether. When done incorrectly, the industry is put at risk.

Hidden, pre-checked cross sales are misleading, wrong, and most likely illegal. None of us should be surprised to see some large programs prosecuted by the DOJ or FTC for this underhanded practice.
I do not support them, condone them, or do anything besides pray for their demise. They hurt us all and we do not now, nor will we ever, do business with people who practice hidden cross sales. If we have a partner who turns to the dark side, we will drop them in a heart beat.


However, there has been way too much lumping together of properly done cross sales with the hidden, shady cross sale practices that we all know are going on. This is done mostly by the uninformed but also by some who's agenda it is to discredit a business practice that is not their own (in typical GFY style)


Take our model for example.
Our prechecks are fully visible and explained in detail above the submit button. There is nothing hidden about them. They are right in the surfer's face. However, if the surfer doesn't understand or somehow doesn't see the checkbox, he WILL receive an email in plain text (so as not to get caught in a spam filter) explaining that he has joined along with the website URL and more importantly, the CANCEL PAGE URL. There is simply no deception. But we go even further to protect the surfer. If, somehow, they didn't see the checkbox and didn't get the email, our descriptors that show up on their credit card statement have our toll free customer service phone number and our cancel page url. If they contact our customer service and ask for a refund, we refund them in full NO QUESTIONS ASKED. It doesn't matter whether they say,"I have no idea what this charge is" or "I just want to cheat you out of money" we give a full refund. All of that is to take care of the surfer!



We also have a few proprietary ways of protecting the program owner who sells to us from the small percentage of disgruntled surfers as well but that's not for public consumption. There's a reason we're better than our competition and I'm just not going to give it away on a chat board.

And just a quick word on retention. Since I also sell off some cross sales, I too, am very concerned about retention. Because of the way we operate cross sales, we've always enjoyed great retention. At a time when you hear people struggling for 3month retention, we're looking at many many many surfers staying with us for over a year. The myth that cross sales hurt retention is just that, a myth.

I'm currently working with some of the biggest most ethical companies in our business and there's a reason for that. If you're a program owner who's interested in cross sales, contact me and find out why.

I love you 12clicks, even though you're not Canadian

Good Read.

Hehe, thanks for clearing that up 12clicks - now I won't have to put the red icon (read means danger) next to your cross sale! :)

Straight and true post...:thumbsup

The absolute best post on the subject yet to be posted. Props to 12clicks. :thumbsup

nice post

Thanks 12 Clicks. That is the way x-sells are done. The surfer ALWAYS has the opportunity to get their money back. And some do opt for that, most don't. All that fake fucking drama is just that...fake.

Now I suggest we all make sure our content isn't all over the tube sites. THAT will definitely hurt your sales if your entire members area is ripped on a torrent or a tube.

I switched to encrypted streaming in my members area (not ONE of my udates from the last 2 months are anywhere but my members area) and hired removeyourcontent.com to monitor and pull the old wmv's off. My sales are going up.

Stop the drama over x-sells which have ALWAYS been there, and start addressing the real problem...tubes and torrents. There is a reason I can't sell half of the paysites out there anymore, and it is NOT x-sells. It's the fact that the members areas are available for free.

Now if you could get some sales to your sites you might be able to check out how it works. ;)

You are such a loser, it's actually funny.

Just remember, when you post something and someone quotes you and posts a "LOL"?

They are not laughing with you, they are laughing at you.

He's NOT ??:Oh crap

God I miss you!!! :wetkiss When you talk like that I just get all hot and....:helpme



Now let's just see if one, ONE, person out of the group of people who were fighting to the death against cross sells will actually read 12Clicks post without shaking their head *no* the whole time, take in some new info on the matter, and come back with some nice questions to better understand what they think and what 12clicks said. :upsidedow

I like to troll 12clicks too every once in awhile...But you gotta be selective with it man....

It is unlikely they will. :winkwink:

It just seems to me that if prechecked sales aren't misleading in any way, why have them pre checked? If the surfer wants to join them, they will check them. That aside you seem to handle them very professionally.

Great post Ron. I agree with philosophy.

Nice,but i dont remember is there anyone who promote 12clicks.

thanks for clearing that up! now....has everyone started thinking about INTERNEXT VEGAS???

Ahhhh an intelligent post...love those :)

If someone wants to incorporate xsells into their business model, well this is the way to do it. Above the submit button and clearly described for the customer...the additional customer followup is the icing on the cake. Most mainstream ecommerce sites follow the same practices.

We're in the business of impulse buying, but there is a world of difference between fully disclosing to the customer that they are being invited to purchase additional complimentary products - and all before they actually agree to join or buy - versus tacking on additional costs in a way that relies on the consumer not catching on to the 'extras'.

Good discussion, OneTwoClicks :winkwink:

Good post. I didn't say anything in the other thread anyway, but I did assume they were all lumped in with the rest. This thread clears that up pretty well.

Touche!


:1orglaugh

perfect informative thread

I appreciate the intelligent feedback from the business people here.

I agree
12 clicks uses cross sells very 'polite'

well said 12, the problem is most arent doing it the way you are :(

HOLY FUCKING SHIT!!!!!!


STOP THE PRESSES!!!!


THERE ARE OTHER PEOPLE ON THIS BOARD WHO MAKE SENSE!!!!!!


http://search.tvnz.co.nz/photogaller...ailed_it_2.jpg

NAILED IT 12C!!!!!

i was beginning to think i was alone here.

Great Post Ron.

I believe a huge reason for the public backlash is the struggle many webmasters are experiencing. Our industry has always been known for easy money. The money is still there to be made. It's just not easy money. You have to work hard and have a smart business plan to make it.

no the problem is people use the blanket word 'MOST' too often on this subject and don't take consideration for programs that do this legitimately, which was probably why 12 clicks was posting this in the first place...

well we could all shout about it. you know, maybe convince people to use me...........
haha

Thats funny, Ron talking about ethics :1orglaugh
Thats the same as Pussyserver saying he isnt racist.

And that god you made a thread expressing your views. Everybody in this industry is really interested to know what 12clicks thinks about xsells :1orglaugh

Thats because even the dumbest webmasters are smart enough to not send any traffic there.
The only way he can sell them is by buying xsells funny enough so people get tricked into signing up to his piece of shit sites as he knows surfers actually checking out the site dont pull their cc.


Ron and ethics :1orglaugh:1orglaugh omg :1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Their is no real backlash for Xsales the whole thing was started by trolls.

And dunno why 12clicks is getting congratulated here considering his history. He just stated the obvious that has been said over and over again by legit people on this forum..

You guys.. soo funny...

god is not the one who took the time to learn you something

i'm sure that your gratitude, however misguided is appreciated though.

boy, you can certainly tell when the kids get home from school

nice post indeed :)

Is it possible for other people to buy pre-checked cross sales thru CCBILL?

You know how when you're in a group of people and someone says something retarded and everybody realizes it except the idiot who said it?

This thread is the group of people, you're the idiot.

From an affiliate perspective pushing revshare its still a sour subject.. question is will the program owner doing a cross sale give the affiliate added value.. will they invest a lot of money in feeds to improve retention like one of my sponsors I push (builttoconvert)

Will the program offer more than 50% revshare? Or will the program just pocket that extra money and offer nothing new?

Anti Cross Sale Nazi's just need to ask for no cross sales on thier join pages its always an option with most affiliates programs if it bothers them.

THe Nazi's won't do it though its big cut in the check and it is easier to shit on programs and whine about it for them rather than admit to themselves that they are just as guilty as the irresponsible program doing it.

Or the ANti X Sale Nazi has no traffic and the agenda of hate just suits them to dive in with the other retards crying about it.

Hate and negativity is a self feeding thing and it's always about capitalising on something that is not understood.

I could care less what you think hot stuff. You post more dumb and offensive shit than any other person on this board and that includes 12clicks. This guy has talked a ton of shit so he should be able to handle a little joke. If im such a loser then I must be completly wrong so it shouldnt hurt his feelings much, should it?

Ok, so your saying that 12clicks is rolling in the sales. I get it, im wrong your right. :1orglaugh

lol.....

Well said Ron.

IMO I don't think anyone should put more than 1 pre-checked cross sell on their join pages.

Awesome post 12 Clicks:thumbsup

quoted because HERE is the REAL problem with our industry!

:thumbsup

I know how much I send him and I'm a small fry. I know how much my friends send him and they're small fries. When you've been in this business as long as I have it's fairly easy to extrapolate sales trends.

One thing you should know about 12Clicks is that he's not a porn guy, he's a business man.

Werd:pimp

To yo MOTHA!

Thats great. I never said he wasnt a business man, whatever that is. I only base my opinions on statistical facts, so since you guys are marketing genuises and all I wont question it. I was just getting a quick jab on him but you want to make a big deal of it trying to defend him. please keep on keepin on.

You've seen his stats?

So giving free content to surfers who most likely would never sign up for a paysite is worse for this industry than fucking over people who do pull their cc and pay for a site. Yeah that makes sense idiot.

And Robbie is just saying that because his content is shared on tubes so hes pissed off. He doesnt give a fuck that surfers get billed for 120 bucks in hidden xsells but hes crying all over the place when one of his vids is on a tube site.

If you think tube sites are worse than hidden xsells then you must be real fucking slow. Like reaaaal fucking slow.