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-   -   interesting read on the economy: (https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=889598)

Grapesoda 02-23-2009 08:55 AM

interesting read on the economy:
 
There is an old Russian fable, with different versions in other countries, about two poor peasants, Ivan and Boris. The only difference between them was that Boris had a goat and Ivan didn't. One day, Ivan came upon a strange-looking lamp and, when he rubbed it, a genie appeared. She told him that she could grant him just one wish, but it could be anything in the world.

Ivan said, "I want Boris' goat to die."

Variations on this story in other countries suggest that this tells us something about human beings, not just Russians.

It may tell us something painful about many Americans today, when so many people are preoccupied with the pay of corporate CEOs. It is not that the corporate CEOs' pay affects them so much. If every oil company executive in America agreed to work for nothing, that would not be enough to lower the price of a gallon of gasoline by a dime. If every General Motors executive agreed to work for nothing, that would not lower the price of a Cadillac or a Chevrolet by one percent.

Too many people are like Ivan, who wanted Boris' goat to die.

It is not even that the average corporate CEO makes as much money as any number of professional athletes and entertainers. The average pay of a CEO of a corporation big enough to be included in the Standard & Poor's index is less than one-third of what Alex Rodriguez makes, about one-tenth of what Tiger Woods makes and less than one-thirtieth of what Oprah Winfrey makes.

But when has anyone ever accused athletes or entertainers of "greed"?

It is not the general public that singles out corporate CEOs for so much attention. Politicians and the media have focused on business leaders, and the public has been led along, like sheep.

The logic is simple: Demonize those whose place or power you plan to usurp.

Politicians who want the power to micro-manage business and the economy know that demonizing those who currently run businesses is the opening salvo in the battle to take over their roles.

There is no way that politicians can take over the roles of Alex Rodriguez, Tiger Woods or Oprah Winfrey. So they can make any amount of money they want and it doesn't matter politically.

Those who want more power have known for centuries that giving the people somebody to hate and fear is the key.

In 18th century France, promoting hatred of the aristocracy was the key to Robespierre's acquiring more dictatorial power than the aristocracy had ever had, and using that power to create a bigger bloodbath than anything under the old regime.

In the 20th century, it was both the czars and the capitalists in Russia who were made the targets of public hatred by the Communists on their road to power. That power created more havoc in the lives of more people than czars and capitalists ever had combined.

As in other countries and other times, today it is not just a question of which elites win out in a tug of war in America. It is the people at large who have the most at stake.

We have just seen one of the biggest free home demonstrations of what happens in an economy when politicians tell businesses what decisions to make.

For years, using the powers of the Community Reinvestment Act and other regulatory powers, along with threats of legal action if the loan approval rates varied from the population profile, politicians have pressured banks and other lending institutions into lending to people they would not lend to otherwise.

Yet, when all this blows up in our faces and the economy turns down, what is the answer? To have more economic decisions made by politicians, because they choose to say that "deregulation" is the cause of our problems.

Regardless of how much suffocating regulation may have been responsible for an economic debacle, politicians have learned that they can get away with it if they call it "deregulation."

No matter what happens, for politicians it is "heads I win and tails you lose." If we keep listening to the politicians and their media allies, we are all going to keep losing, big time. Keeping our attention focused on CEO pay? Boris' goat? is all part of this game. We are all goats if we fall for it.

Agent 488 02-23-2009 09:01 AM

looks like crap people email blindly on the internet.

Pleasurepays 02-23-2009 09:02 AM

i don't think its about "greed" - its about a desperate need to assign blame and have something "somewhere else" to point the finger at, as being the problem. Doing that, means you don't have to do the really tough thing and point the finger at yourself.

people by nature are irresponsible and its far easier to play the victim than to accept responsibility for our own actions

HorseShit 02-23-2009 09:02 AM

cliff notes please

JFK 02-23-2009 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by budsbabes (Post 15538188)
looks like crap people email blindly on the internet.

some of the blindly mailed "crap" on the internet actually makes a lot of sense:2 cents:

Kevin Marx 02-23-2009 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays (Post 15538191)
i don't think its about "greed" - its about a desperate need to assign blame and have something "somewhere else" to point the finger at, as being the problem. Doing that, means you don't have to do the really tough thing and point the finger at yourself.

people by nature are irresponsible and its far easier to play the victim than to accept responsibility for our own actions

Bingo.... dead ringer.

The blame game works better than anything else. You can get away with anything if you can find someone to blame for it in the end.

Grapesoda 02-23-2009 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by budsbabes (Post 15538188)
looks like crap people email blindly on the internet.

actually it's from a column of a well known 'economics professor at stanford'

pornguy 02-23-2009 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bm bradley (Post 15538170)
There is an old Russian fable, with different versions in other countries, about two poor peasants, Ivan and Boris. The only difference between them was that Boris had a goat and Ivan didn't. One day, Ivan came upon a strange-looking lamp and, when he rubbed it, a genie appeared. She told him that she could grant him just one wish, but it could be anything in the world.

Ivan said, "I want Boris' goat to die."

Variations on this story in other countries suggest that this tells us something about human beings, not just Russians.

It may tell us something painful about many Americans today, when so many people are preoccupied with the pay of corporate CEOs. It is not that the corporate CEOs' pay affects them so much. If every oil company executive in America agreed to work for nothing, that would not be enough to lower the price of a gallon of gasoline by a dime. If every General Motors executive agreed to work for nothing, that would not lower the price of a Cadillac or a Chevrolet by one percent.

If the CEO for Ford or Chevy took a pay cut from his 35k an hour pay, How many people would avoid being laid off??

Quote:

Too many people are like Ivan, who wanted Boris' goat to die.

It is not even that the average corporate CEO makes as much money as any number of professional athletes and entertainers. The average pay of a CEO of a corporation big enough to be included in the Standard & Poor's index is less than one-third of what Alex Rodriguez makes, about one-tenth of what Tiger Woods makes and less than one-thirtieth of what Oprah Winfrey makes.

But when has anyone ever accused athletes or entertainers of "greed"?

Is Orca's show laying people off? If so, then maybe she needs a pay cut as well. What about Tiger?? How many people has he laid off??

In general the athaletes are greedy and a lot of people have spoken out about it. They get the X million dollar contract and all of a sudden they dont play as well as they did while in college. Wonder why??? They DONT have to. There is NO CLAUSE in the contract that says they MUST make X touchdowns or X home runs.
Quote:

It is not the general public that singles out corporate CEOs for so much attention. Politicians and the media have focused on business leaders, and the public has been led along, like sheep.

The logic is simple: Demonize those whose place or power you plan to usurp.

Politicians who want the power to micro-manage business and the economy know that demonizing those who currently run businesses is the opening salvo in the battle to take over their roles.

There is no way that politicians can take over the roles of Alex Rodriguez, Tiger Woods or Oprah Winfrey. So they can make any amount of money they want and it doesn't matter politically.


Err Yes they can, They just need to get control of the companies that own the teams. Its a little harder on Golfers but they do play for money from the different associations.


Quote:


Those who want more power have known for centuries that giving the people somebody to hate and fear is the key.

In 18th century France, promoting hatred of the aristocracy was the key to Robespierre's acquiring more dictatorial power than the aristocracy had ever had, and using that power to create a bigger bloodbath than anything under the old regime.

In the 20th century, it was both the czars and the capitalists in Russia who were made the targets of public hatred by the Communists on their road to power. That power created more havoc in the lives of more people than czars and capitalists ever had combined.

As in other countries and other times, today it is not just a question of which elites win out in a tug of war in America. It is the people at large who have the most at stake.

We have just seen one of the biggest free home demonstrations of what happens in an economy when politicians tell businesses what decisions to make.

For years, using the powers of the Community Reinvestment Act and other regulatory powers, along with threats of legal action if the loan approval rates varied from the population profile, politicians have pressured banks and other lending institutions into lending to people they would not lend to otherwise.

Yet, when all this blows up in our faces and the economy turns down, what is the answer? To have more economic decisions made by politicians, because they choose to say that "deregulation" is the cause of our problems.

Regardless of how much suffocating regulation may have been responsible for an economic debacle, politicians have learned that they can get away with it if they call it "deregulation."

No matter what happens, for politicians it is "heads I win and tails you lose." If we keep listening to the politicians and their media allies, we are all going to keep losing, big time. Keeping our attention focused on CEO pay? Boris' goat? is all part of this game. We are all goats if we fall for it.

Politicians are out for themselves first, and a wayyy distant last is the people they are supposed to represent. and that wont change any time soon.

Grapesoda 02-23-2009 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pornguy (Post 15538490)

Is Orca's show laying people off? If so, then maybe she needs a pay cut as well. What about Tiger?? How many people has he laid off??

I figure what she paid for her 30+ acre estate in monticito she could help lots of bothers in south central :)

Quote:

In general the athaletes are greedy and a lot of people have spoken out about it. They get the X million dollar contract and all of a sudden they dont play as well as they did while in college. Wonder why??? They DONT have to. There is NO CLAUSE in the contract that says they MUST make X touchdowns or X home runs.
it's the agents that are driving the prices sky high, just like they did with actors and just like they did with porn models. personally I think the athletes could take a huge cut in pay and bring ticket prices way down...

Quote:


Politicians are out for themselves first, and a wayyy distant last is the people they are supposed to represent. and that wont change any time soon.
bingo!!!

pornguy 02-23-2009 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bm bradley (Post 15538551)
I figure what she paid for her 30+ acre estate in monticito she could help lots of bothers in south central :)



it's the agents that are driving the prices sky high, just like they did with actors and just like they did with porn models. personally I think the athletes could take a huge cut in pay and bring ticket prices way down...



bingo!!!

I totally agree with you 100% and I hope I did not come off sounding like I was attacking you.

It really sucks to see the sheep line up and follow what people tell them

Just search this board its self and read how obama was the savior. you will also see me posting that he is a politician and will fuck as all for his own gain.

Grapesoda 02-23-2009 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pornguy (Post 15538697)
I totally agree with you 100% and I hope I did not come off sounding like I was attacking you.

It really sucks to see the sheep line up and follow what people tell them

Just search this board its self and read how obama was the savior. you will also see me posting that he is a politician and will fuck as all for his own gain.

I never feel attacked by you .... to me this column is an interesting read and I probably believe it... however I'm sure there are other sides and agendas... I really like t. sowell's work

_Richard_ 02-23-2009 12:42 PM

interesting point regarding the sports/media centers

Grapesoda 02-23-2009 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SBR Richard (Post 15539028)
interesting point regarding the sports/media centers

yes it is isn't it? I totally think the gov is trying to grab all the banks

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE 02-23-2009 01:03 PM

Propaganda...

Apologists for the wealthy... Now thats something new.

mhende6600 02-23-2009 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdavis (Post 15538193)
cliff notes please

ditto his statement

lofasz 02-23-2009 04:33 PM

The 11th commandment...
 
Thou shalt not covet, thy neighbor's goat.

Penthouse Tony 02-23-2009 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bm bradley (Post 15538170)
For years, using the powers of the Community Reinvestment Act and other regulatory powers, along with threats of legal action if the loan approval rates varied from the population profile, politicians have pressured banks and other lending institutions into lending to people they would not lend to otherwise.

Isn't this just Republicans demonizing Democrats so they can take back power? When times were good no bank complained about this Act. They all loved it. It made them ridiculous money.

$5 submissions 02-23-2009 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bm bradley (Post 15538339)
actually it's from a column of a well known 'economics professor at stanford'

Thomas Sowell?

mynameisjim 02-23-2009 05:05 PM

I think what people are angry at is that certain CEOs received huge bonus payouts based on "performance" when they pretty much bankrupted their own companies and half of the country in the process.

Few people complain about what Steve Jobs, or Bill Gates, or the Google founders make. Most people thought it was awesome that the guy who created Youtube sold it for billions.

cykoe6 02-23-2009 05:22 PM

Good article. It is a shame so few understand what is happening right now.

pornask 02-23-2009 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdavis (Post 15538193)
cliff notes please

:2 cents:

BlackCrayon 02-23-2009 05:46 PM

You can't compare these CEO's who knew damn well things were tanking but did and said nothing to athletes or celebs. Their actions had a direct effect on what is happening now. Of course they are far from the only people to blame but they do share in it. When some asshole celebrity gets paid 10mil for a movie, it doesn't effect my paycheck or my 401k.

onwebcam 02-23-2009 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bm bradley (Post 15538170)

No matter what happens, for politicians it is "heads I win and tails you lose." If we keep listening to the politicians and their media allies, we are all going to keep losing, big time. Keeping our attention focused on CEO pay— Boris' goat— is all part of this game. We are all goats if we fall for it.

While I agree with that point mostly these politicians are bought and paid for by these big money interests. So it's "heads I win and tails you lose" to the big money interests via the politicians.

Grapesoda 02-23-2009 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by $5 submissions (Post 15540463)
Thomas Sowell?

yup, that would be who

Janak 02-23-2009 06:50 PM

Everyone should just be rich. That'd work, right?

Grapesoda 02-23-2009 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onwebcam (Post 15540657)
While I agree with that point mostly these politicians are bought and paid for by these big money interests. So it's "heads I win and tails you lose" to the big money interests via the politicians.

yep and it's looks like the political's are going to gain accesses to our banking system.... now they can seal money without having to waste time putting a scheme together. $.02

rokstarz 02-23-2009 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhende6600 (Post 15539099)
ditto his statement

Here is some cliff notes for ya:
...titties, titties, titties...[insert pic of porno dans dick here]...titties, titties, titties.

That make it a little more interesting for ya?

tony286 02-23-2009 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sagi_AFF (Post 15540401)
Isn't this just Republicans demonizing Democrats so they can take back power? When times were good no bank complained about this Act. They all loved it. It made them ridiculous money.

you are right :thumbsup

tony286 02-23-2009 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mynameisjim (Post 15540465)
I think what people are angry at is that certain CEOs received huge bonus payouts based on "performance" when they pretty much bankrupted their own companies and half of the country in the process.

Few people complain about what Steve Jobs, or Bill Gates, or the Google founders make. Most people thought it was awesome that the guy who created Youtube sold it for billions.

very true.i think maybe the guy who wrote the article may have a small agenda.

Grapesoda 02-23-2009 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony404 (Post 15541066)
very true.i think maybe the guy who wrote the article may have a small agenda.

read up on him and then decide $.02


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