Did Bin Laden get exactly what he wanted and DID Bush fall into his trap?
 

Just seen an expert on the BBC News say this.

Did Bin Laden think Bush would attack Afghanistan and drag him into a war he could never win in reply to 9/11?

It certainly has turned out that way. Bin Laden must of known if he did something as terrible as 9/11 a President like Bush would never let it go without a retaliation. The idea that he thought Bush would do nothing like Clinton did with the previous attacks is even more absurd.

Bush took his eye off the ball and made it easier for Bin Laden by attacking Iraq. Doubt if Bin Laden planned for that, I bet he was pleased about it though.

The question now is do we carry on in this un winnable war or do we pull out and tell them we will return if they attack us or do we step it up?

And how do we step it up?

Obama made a very good point yesterday while talking to students. He said giving into terrorists is not a solution. The more you give in the more they want.

Discuss.

Bin Laden wanted the financial collapse of the US. He got that - took a few years, but he got it.

Sure there are other factors in the US and now global financial fuckup, but spending billions on a fight that has no end in site can't have helped.

everyone's an expert Paul :winkwink:

That as well.

It would be interesting to know how much the two wars have cost in terms of Afghan citizens. We might of been able to give each one of them a job and got them out of poverty, which breeds radicals, for a lot less. There would still be the crazies who will never put down their guns, like in N. Ireland recently, but they become insignificant without a lot of the peoples support.

I bet he didn't expect the USA to spend 3 trillion dollars on bombs. Or was it 7 trillion.
I forgot which one.

I often wonder if the the money would have been better spent throwing it out of C-17s over Afghanistan, solving;

a) The ill feeling toward the USA
and
b) Poverty.

http://www.air-attack.com/MIL/c17/c17header.jpg

I think Bin Laden got more than he could have ever wished for. I'm sure he expected a retaliation and assumed that we would invade Afghanistan and get drawn into an extended conflict there. Iraq was a gift to him. Sure we have killed some terrorist in Iraq, but by invading them and then occupying that country for years we have created many more terrorist than we killed. Now the terrorist get to point at us and say, "See, we told you they are imperialist scum. They invade countries and occupy them and try to install their own government there." and many of the people of that part of the world will believe them. Those who were on the fence about us now have something to hate us for.

Add in the fact that we have spent around a trillion on Iraq and that our economy is collapsing and he is probably dancing in his cave.

The rough part is that you can't win once you get involved with terrorism. If we do nothing we look weak and that invites more attacks. If we attack them back there is the chance that we cause more hate to be aimed towards us and the more we attack them the more they want to attack us. It is a sad, sorry, never ending circle. There is a line in Macbeth where he realizes that all the back stabbing and violence will only lead to more back stabbing and violence and he says, "I am in blood and they say that blood shall have blood." Truer words have never been spoken.

Before 9/11 we had tinkered in the terrorism situation. On 9/11 we officially became part of something that will never end, at least not in our lifetime.

It sucks no matter what you do.

Plan to pull out has already been formed, Paul you must have read that, but great spam....and good content offer, i might be interested lol

:pimp

Kane explained perfectly why this solution will not work. You bomb Afghanistan to that level and those left hate you more and Muslims all over the world become potential terrorists. Nazis thought they could bomb Britain into submission, did not work, the Allies thought they could bomb Germany into submission, did not work. The Israelis THINK they can bomb the Palestinians into submission and that IS not working. Can you tell me when it did work?

However maybe you meant is as a joke. :winkwink:

LOL You totally misunderstood what I was saying.

I was saying, it might have been better to just use those big ass transporters (they are not bombers) to drop the trillions of dollars IN CASH on Afghanistan!!!! Like cash cash - not bombs!!

I am never an advocate of war or violence.

Dropping the cash would as I said help relations, end poverty in that country and no lives would have been lost.

As crazy as it might sound it isn't a terrible idea. One of the problems with the middle east is that they have a huge separation of wealth. They have a very small number of people who are extremely wealthy and a huge number of people who live in poverty and have little or no education. Much of what education they do get is based in radical religious teachings. Add into that a government controlled media and many people in these countries have no real world knowledge of the US other than what they are told. Then they see something like Iraq and it just reinforces what they were told. A great example is when Israel recently attacked Lebanon. After they shelled and destroyed some areas of the city members of Hamas were in those neighborhoods handing cash to the people who had lost their homes and helping them rebuild and relocate. You know many of those people are now (if they weren't already) Hamas sympathizers and I wouldn't be shocked to learn that some of them full on joined the group and took up arms.

Afghanistan also teaches us a great lesson. We backed Bin Laden and Afghanistan when they fought back the Russians. But when that fight ended we did nothing to help rebuild the country or offer the people of that country any kind of future. When you are poor and hungry and scared it breeds an environment for radicals. So the Taliban moves in and they provide so people don't question. We saw it on a small scale here in the US after 9/11. If they had tried to pass the patriot act 2 years prior to 9/11 it would have died in committee and been a black eye on anyone who authored or supported it. But after 9/11 people were scared and they wanted to be reassured that they would be okay and nobody questioned it. It is why so much of the country agreed with the invasion of Iraq because we were told they were part of the attack on us.

You can also look at parts of Africa and see this. People are starving so religious groups go in and feed them and help educate them and in the process they tell them that using condoms is bad and will send you to hell and the people that are poor, undereducated and scared believe.

If we somehow can destroy much of Al Queda and get Bin Laden and secure Afghanistan so that the Taliban can't take control again we have to make sure that we do something to help push the people towards their own independence so that they have options and are not as susceptible to radicalism.

But, in the end, I fear we can never beat terrorism nor can we really make much of a dent in it on a large scale. Too much of that part of the world lives in poverty and ignorance (and I don't mean that in a bad way, they just know no better because of their environment and place and ways in which they were raised) for there ever to be any real understanding between us.

they don't call Afghanistan 'The Empire Killer' for nothing. it had a part in taking down the Soviet Empire and now the American Empire.

i'd like to say 'nuke it'.

can we harvest all that poppy first? :(

Bin Laden already won, if you believe that he was really the one in charge of it all.

Bin Laden said he didn't do 9/11 - Just stating the facts.

You are never going to win a gorilla war. Never ever. You might win battles but never the war.

I prefer to think Bush used Bin Laden to get what he wanted.

This is widely reported by CIA who wrote books about it: there was this moment, at Tora Bora, & we had Bin Laden by the balls. Osama apologized to his troops on the radio for their dire situation in Tora Bora. Then Bush held back our troops, & ordered Afghans on jackasses to lead the final battle. This gave Bin Laden the opening to disappear.

the war in afghanistan could have, & should have been over in December 2001. But we had a POTUS with a much longer & wider war in mind. He knew if we knocked out al queda in Tora Bora, there was no way to bullshit us into Iraq. So he sent in jackasses on purpose, knowing the war would go in with Osama still out there. By Feb 2002, Bush was publicly stating "i don't care where Bin Laden is"

If the so called liberal media was doing its job in feb 2002, they would have exploited this statement to death, put families of 911 victims on the air to voice outrage. Instead, they were in love with the POTUS with an 87% approval rating.

So there was no trap. The Afgan war should have been over. But your supposition is correct: Bin Laden is much smarter than Bush.

Sorry I totally misread it, saw the pictures and it dominated my thought. A picture is worth a thousand words. LOL

I think your plan might of been cheaper. People with something to lose are easier to keep quiet then people with nothing to lose.

Lets not forget Obama wants to send MORE troops and spend MORE money in Afghanistan so it seems we have a few presidents and a lot of congressmen and senators that fell for the trap as well.

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

good old repuke proverb .... :1orglaugh

fuck me 8 years later and still think bin laden was behind 9/11

Mr Bush and the Neocons carried out 9/11 (False Flag Terrorism) - google it

secret society controls America

these people control Obama - new laws are coming in for guns.

We already are. :winkwink:

*grabbing tin foil hat*

I think the Martians were behind it and the proof is in War of the Worlds. Tom Cruise was not acting. LOL

Israel OWNS america's ass. how many Neocons had Israeli passports? large majority
Who OWNS the majority of the media = Mr Murdoch:)

By the way War Of The Worlds is the worse movie i've ever seen.

Also 7/7 London bombings was an inside job - watch 7/7 Ripple Effect on Youtube.
no terrorists set bombs off that day, even the picture they show from the day before is FAKE.

Kenny Craig would say - look into my eyes look into my eyes, the eyes, the eyes, not around the eyes dont look around the eyes, look into my eyes, YOUR UNDER. :)

You don't know what gorilla warfare is? Clown.

I guess I was an expert too since I said the same thing 2 weeks after 911.
Of course I was called an idiot then.

its debate-able, depending on who you ask. but if you look at it with an openmind and what bin laden's intentions was, then you'll see he suceeded. Hitting the World Trade Center was an attack on the US/Worlds economic system. Two key targets were hit, our financial and war/power symbol... the 3rd target could of been the whitehouse. Anyway looking at the economy now, Bin Laden one.

Look at it like this Americans are so set on revenge and blame at any cost. Disrupt the financial system and then force a country to spend billions a month seeking revenage. Bin Laden wins hands down. :(

You are even dumber then I previously tought ... :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x...warfare_w2.jpg

http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...orilla+warfare

So which one of those is it ..... :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh


or , maybe in your igorant dumbass normal uneducated state, you meant :

Guerrilla warfare

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guerrilla_warfare

I would agree with you. At the time I thought it was a justifiable war that needed to be done. Now I'm wondering whether it would of been better to have sent Cruise missiles into the terrorist bases and tell them they can have more of that if they come out of their country again.

Maybe we could of won without invading Iraq, but Bush had his agenda and nothing could budge him.

The tin foil hat brigade are wrong. The last place Bush would of hit was The World Trade Center. Even he knew what it did.

And another one for the uneducated fuck knowned as LiveDose ....:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o...-Warfare_w.jpg

Don't go to the zoo ... there could be GORILLA WARFARE .... :1orglaugh:):)

Thanks for the correction but your hostility is bizarre. I'm having a casual day on GFY, watching sports, drinking and having a conversation here with someone. Glad I could make your day.

Get a grip before you have an aneurism.

The alternate history...


https://youtube.com/watch?v=lVksVZs0nmo

:helpme
:error

LOL American banks bank-rolled Hitlers war.

I'll take my licks in this thread. NP. Idiotic mistake but let me make a quick point...

'You are even dumber then I previously tought ...' --- Typo from rushing and trying to be a smart ass.

'or , maybe in your igorant dumbass normal uneducated state, you meant' --- Typo from rushing and trying to be a smart ass.

'And another one for the uneducated fuck knowned as LiveDose ....' --- Clearly a stupid individual.... 'knowned'... hahaha :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

That is not entirely correct, go read Jawbreaker by Gary Berntsen, he was the head cia guy on the ground leading the invasion. This book goes into what lead up to and happened at Tora Bora, extremely easy read and a truly fascinating story on how the US dropped the ball

Without war, we wouldn't be comfortably chatting to one another about this topic right now. It's sad to say, but war is an essential role, us human beings, will always continue to carry out.