DRAMA: Calling me FRAUD over cross-sells!
 

I have been in this business for over a dozen years. I have promoted 100s of affiliate programs and never had ANY sponsor calling me fraud before so I am taking this to heart.. even our own affiliate program is older than the one accusing me of fraud. Only minor thing they forgot that I did not push them directly.. I cross-sold them so I can cross-check the cross-joins I sent them; here's the screenshot:

http://www.toyrev.com/_stats.gif

Now, free trial to rebill ratio was very poor but what would you expect from free joins to 39.95/mon non-exclusive sites? I guess they could make their monies of upsells. But it's also one thing to say your traffic is not working out for us please stop sending traffic; it's another thing to accuse an affiliate of FRAUD.

I spoke with their reps:

Me ‎(27/04/2009 12:35 PM):
yes but you can't just say frauds on cross sells.. if it was fraud we'd get CBs too but we did not get a single chargeback since we started cross-selling.. it's one thing to say you don't want my traffic anymore it's another thing to call me fraud over cross-selling and terminate account without pay.. please ask your boss if he'd liketo discuss this with me over at gfy..
him ‎(27/04/2009 1:11 PM):
no i agree with u 1000%
him ‎(27/04/2009 1:11 PM):
let me see what i can do
him ‎(29/04/2009 11:33 AM):
hey, it might have been one of ur affiliates who brought in a bad join, so i talked to my manager and we both agreed that we want to send u exit traffic to helpu out because of the mishap
me ‎(29/04/2009 11:35 AM):
hi "him". ok but do you want me to take the cros-sell out? i have no problem taking it out if it's not working out for you guys
him ‎(29/04/2009 11:38 AM):
well it was workin for us, but some of the joins jus werent clean, not ur fault at all... so ya we gotta pull that plug, but ya were gonna send u some traffic, cuz we understand these things happen

So they still weren't admitting that they didn't want my traffic cause of poor conversion but who cares as long as I got paid.. atleast that's the impression I got then that I would get paid. But when no paymt I ask:

another him ‎(10:49 AM):
Our affiliate program has been around for many years and we have always paid for legitimate joins. However we do not pay for joins that are fabricated, or illegitimate use of a credit card, or non-arm?s length of the affiliate. We have determined your join fall into one of these categories and therefore is a violation of our affiliate terms of use. We have therefore terminated your affiliate status with our program and we will not be paying any referral fees on this account.

So these guys calling me fraud because they could not convert trials to rebills? If you see the screenshot.. there was not 1 single CB as they claim?

As I told him that I wanted to discuss this on gfy:

him ‎(11:42 AM):
icq me the url of the gfy post so that i can give it to our lawyer
me ‎(11:45 AM):
sure! not a problem at all lol.. I should take you to court with this too instead anyways that's a good kick.. i'll let GFY know about this threat too..

So what you say should I name any names? Will that be unjust or illegal? Or do I have the right to post here if I feel I was done wrong? Tell me guys what you think?

what sponsor?

hmmmmmmmmm

sounds like the program you are having problems with are a waste of space bunch of shit idiots that are obviously losing money because your traffic is so good but they can't get any rebills because the sites are shit!

:2 cents:

I will tell you if you tell me your thoughts.. do you think I was done wrong and I should name the sponsor? Or do you think I should name the sponsor just for a drama?

don't name them until they sort it out.

that may only cause problems.

but,

If you don't someone else may get fucked by them.

From what you posted it looks like you came out of the dugout throwing the GFY drama post game around. It sounds like you had a hair across your ass from the beginning, and possibly rightfully so.

Just saying, throwing around threats of public humiliation isn't the best way to get the job done. That's just MO

hmm.. ya know that was after some discussions and after he told me:
him ‎(27/04/2009 12:29 PM):
to be honest i didnt want urs pulled but the big boss said there were frauds

before that there was an email notification and I had picked up the phone to reach him several times but only got answering machine.

Besides "if throwing GFY drama post game around" helps to get paid then why not? Sure beats the heck out of going to court over this kinda matter?

So much drama lately.

I say:

It's impossible to stay clean when throwing shit.

...

If it is true, name names. You would not be breaking any laws (but I am not an attorney). Is it against the site rules to name them? Like another poster said, you may be helping other affiliates out. I hope it's not CamDough (site plug). I'm sure it's not bcoz it would have been me that you spoke with. Good luck on getting your commissions.

I don't think you did anything wrong and I think you should get paid.

Spending money on cross-sales is similar to spending money on advertising. Sometimes you make a killing. Sometimes you lose your shirt.

The buyer should pay you for what you've sent and stop their relationship with you going forward. The fact that the cross-sales were not profitable for them is not your problem.

:2 cents:

totally:2 cents:

Why bother even posting all that if you aren't going to name the sponsor, please stop wasting our time.

yup we want names! :winkwink:

What he said ^^^

g'luck w/ getting it resolved.

True. That's what we'd do with our program.

If it was camdough and did the same with me I don't think you'd be making this post hehe. So no, it surely is not you.

If they don't want your traffic because it isn't converting they can do several things. Lower the payout is one of them. If that doesn't appeal to your then they can terminate the relationship. They keep the money because they don't want Russians creating 100 such systems to screw them with... Having to weed out who to pay takes more time then the traffic is worth.

Obviously you are a different case since you have a program and therefor are not some fly by night Russian shit fuck.

So option number #1 is usually extended to you.

If you keep getting an answering machine it usually means the owner is a keyboard warrior and doesn't like face to face or even phone to phone discussions. Nothing you can do about that except for call him a loser.

I'll just say for now that stay away from this kinda bullshit:

the cross sale is a free 3-day trial to one of their sites that rebills at $39.94. they pay $20 for every member who accepts the trial even if the member cancels before the rebill and they cover all chargebacks.

Then you will see some gfyers backing them up with these =>

Never had problem.

Always pay ontime.

etc.

They won't even pay on legit joins let alone covering chargebacks.

I dug up and looks like these guys got lots of dirty laundries too but as always some GFYers still kiss their ass or it maybe their hired hands who knows.

With talking all this shit just name the program already.

Once I figure they really don't care about just 1 more negative threads about them I will. I'm trying get in touch with a part owner/gfy frequenter right now.

I dont understand this business. SUE THEM ALREADY!

Yeah, it would be way better to handle things directly.

Wrong, it makes you look like an idiot for not suing him in the first place.

Not taking sides, yet. A post like this is really just amusing, with no company named, it really is not very informative. As for the image, unless we know what time-frame is covered by it, it doesn't tell us anything, surfers have 60 days to dispute a charge on their credit card, so today your CBS might show zero, but maybe if you run it for a larger period, it would show CBSs.

:2 cents:

Amount isn't that big for me to worth suing them. Besides they had like a 100 mil pending couple years ago they wouldn't care about just a mosquito suit lol.

It's showing from Jan 1 (I started around Jan 15) until today and as you may have noticed from icq dates I removed cross a month ago. I'm not showing company name simply cause I'm not wanting to name names just yet.

60 days? We all WISH it was just 60 days.

I have a feeling that we are talking about an amount in the hundreds, not thousands. Why would you sue over a few hundred dollars? Waste of time, unfortunately.

Sorry if I'm wrong on that seven... good to see you still around.

Why do I get the feeling that the company that you were xselling solicited you in the first place asking to put up their cross sales? :)

fucking lame

Hey Sly! Didn't hear from you in a while! How's it going? Looks like you are not with phatservers anymore? Topbucks? That must be a good company to work with.. congrats!

Yes, amount is very low.. if it was in thousands I would drive down to have a chat with them first. There was a sponsor few years ago who missed payments in the thousands and I did totally drive down to their office twice and made them pay me in cash both times lol.

maybe because that is probably exactly what happened :1orglaugh

now time to move on the next lucky bugger

both of you are absolutely right! One of them hit me up over ICQ and was able to convince me.. $20 for every free join even if they don't rebill, they'd take any refunds or chargebacks and bla bla!

Drop you guys a hint.. couple years ago some people were predicting this sponsor would change their name to monkey bucks or something.. they actually never did :winkwink:

another hint:

someone even suggested they'd relaunch as ChimpanzeeBucks

That would make them Guerilla Traffic.

-=- QFT -=-
:pimp

LOL guerilla is not the same thing as gorilla :2 cents:

We have a small department that looks over signup patterns for irregularities and this account was flagged. Two days later we got an email from CCbill saying the signups were not authentic. We thought it was odd that we would get these types of signups under a cross sale account, but CCbill confirmed what we had found out. It was possible that the transactions going through his affiliate program were bad and they naturally came to us, or they were done by himself trying to make money on the cross sale deal. We don't know. I can't divulge the exact reasons because that would just make smarter thieves (and I am not calling you a thief btw). We always want legitimate business and you coming to the boards with this is extremely unprofessional. Best of luck nonetheless.

This matter is closed and I will not be commenting further.

Well there you have it.

it is great how easy is to kill someones business only because one email and bad feeling ...

Can you forward this email to me? Otherwise, CCbill seems to have NO record of such email being sent to you.

According to them all signups are legit, they just did not rebill well. And like I told your guy if any signups were "unauthentic" I would be notified too cos they are "CROSS-SALES"!

And your trying to avoid paying is "professional"?

Dude, let me do the same too.. please forward that email that ccbill sent you about the "unauthetic" joins. I authetify the autheticity of that email with ccbill and we close the case totally! This is the easiest thing. I will accept the joins were unauthetic as you said, and you will look good and honest as you say you are :thumbsup

what do you gfyers say? Is that a bad offer I just made?

I think this issue stinks, and if I were you I would have done the same/similar thing. Maybe its not the best way, but I don't give a fuck. If you don't want to sue them for such a small amount and you believe justice is on your side, than its OK to take it to gfy for sure and all the webmasters can decide if they want to do business with them or you :pimp

BTW someone from Guerilla Traffic contacted me in late 2008 wanting me to submit galleries promoting their sites, the dude was kind and helpful, but a little pushy for my taste. I got access to the member area(s) but to be honest its not the best I saw and after sending a few traffic I dropped them. But now I am sure I will never retry.

Very fair offer.

What he said.

Nice site in your sig dude. U a lucky guy screwing all these girls in the name of porn lol.

Can't think of anything more fair for all parties involved.

It's a job. Somebody's gotta do it. I've got a fitness instructor/part-time model coming in tomorrow. Good times. :-)