Some questions about Tube sites as Future Pay Sites
 

Now that there is no more doubt that tube sites have finished off Paysites, has anyone implemented a pay tube site version where members get some teaser content free but need to pay for enjoying the full version?
If yes can someone please post a few URLS here?
And what billing system can work with tubepaysites? I guess CCBill can work with such tube sites

The point really isn't the format, it's the large amount of FREE content :2 cents:


.

Check out our movie site www.hotbox.com. It's basically a tube paysite. You can watch 3 sample videos and then must join.

We're running our promo for a 2nd FULL month straight: $150 per join! None of this once a week on friday only if there's a full moon and the price of gas is up. Our promo lasts for a FULL month and sometimes longer.

well i have seen so many d tha. basicly all big network site have a kind of tube site setup. i have also one that has a tube site feeling only much cleaner and is a normal paysite, only much more dinamic. but i do offer 3 minutes of every movie we have. ours is still in the making. but i can tell its not easy at all. much more complex than a normal paysite. took us about 8 months to make it, test it perfect it. We use ccbill but again it can be tricky. Take a good programmer a cms and start from there.

brazzers has a tube kind of style http://www.brazzers.com/tour3/?actio...esc&site_id=78

o yeah www.vids.com is a perfect example of a tube paysite.

hotbox quality isn't much better tan those free tube sites, that's a shame

http://bigtube.com is a nice mashup

Tube is the new lube.

unfortunately it is true. Surfers have got so used to tube sites and formats that in future they will all want to be able to click and play any video they like with option to download it if possible.
Static paysites will soon be gone with the wind

pretty good one bud

Yes. They are the future.

Example tube pay site, and stats in sig. No. I will not publicly post urls.

However, my members are loving them (direct email feedback) and I am launching three more this week. Customers prefer that as a business model, and seeing what they are getting up front. No more fucking rip offs like before to some 50 scene site that has not updated in 5 years.

They can see the updates, and content, and even sample it before signing up. So it is an upfront buying option for them to make an educated purchase. I am moving ALL my pay sites to this format as it is the delivery system of choice for 2009.

For those BROgrams and pay sites that do not have a ton of content, nor update a lot. The charade is up. So keep pushing your upsells and cross sales. In 2009 with the economy, and educated surfer with enough stories of the banged credit cards, the sites with little content, and no updates, or promoting content on tours not even in the site.... the gig's up.

I have used this technique on other sites for years. Showing what you have. It works like a charm. However, if you do not have a lot of content, or trying to do the classic adult industry rip off. You are not going to sell shit. As a lot of BROgrams ratios now show accordingly.

It's called sweet justice.

:2 cents:

:1orglaugh

paytubesites is the new hype, and some of us know its working ;)

which script are these tubes using?

Yes we have been beta-testing our tube affiliate program http://www.tubetender.com for around 6 months now and even though conversions are not as good as traditional paysites for our in-house traffic we are constantly under 1:800 we are anticipating a full launch sometime around December-January once we have done some more testing with our tours and then we move on to increase retention from around 2 months on average to 4-6 :)

A hype, but not the future. No paying members will watch tubes on their HD TV. At least not the format and way it is done today :)

So you're treating a tube like a VOD kind of offering? They are very closely related, in that sense.

What works today, will possibly not work in 2 years. Common sense. As technology and broadband speed's improve, more people move to better resolution tv's and monitors. The adult industry are going to need to advance with the technology. However, 90% of the industry TODAY in 2009 will not be here in 2 years time.

The only constant is change. Adapt or die.

-30 second preview of the clip on the tube to freeloaders.
-They are then prompted to join.
-Members watch full length stream. So they can not have to save it, or preview before d/l.
-Or can download HD original for better quality. Or ipod/mobile version.

I do not offer trials. So they pay $29.95/34.95. I offer no tour. No upsell. No cross sales. The site and it's content sell it's self. Previews get them reved up. They can see some 800+ scenes and sample 30 seconds of them. See the 100+ models. Get it in the format they prefer. Download or not. See how often updates are happening.

It is where you should be in 2009 with the current technology, and surfer preference for delivery method. This is what they are doing for free, so they want their pay sites in the same format they know and prefer. Again, common sense.

:2 cents:

There is not tube pay site script on the market for $50.00-99.00. If you want one, you will need to pay much more for it. Not Mansion prices, but more than most want to pay.

To use the argument presented for why standard paysites are going out due to free tubes... Why would a surfer decide to pay for a super-tube site when they're used to it for free?

Doesnt the argument that they've killed paysites and therefore the format should be better monetized towards content seekers just fall on it's face?

Isn't that a giant "oops" waiting to happen?

You always make me laugh with your hypotheticals, and abstract shadow boxing.

When you are doing either pay sites, or tube pay sites, and have some facts and examples to put behind your convictions. Feel free to jump in with the devil's advocate.

I base my position in this discussion on actual facts. Not the PR_Tom hypothetical's.

:1orglaugh

No offense to you toots, but I frankly chuckle at anyone who is not a program owner, webmaster, or has done pay sites in some way shape or form to tell me what a customer 'wants'. What converts. What the future is. If you do not have experience in this matters, I simply find it hard to take board lore beliefs seriously.

:winkwink:

Dude, I asked legitimate questions. If you are thinking I am just making comments in the form of questions, then you give me too much credit.

The argument has been made that tube sites have killed off traditional paysites. So I'm trying to take it further and ask how do you now put the genie back in the bottle and sell to those people who came for the content that is free.

Paying members will demand more quality and interactive, and less bullshit. So I think we can forget all about SEO, "click here..", affiliate programs, dating, webcam programs etc. The TV will be their "google" and interactive, and it will find exactly what they want. Intelligence. With spoken words, not typing. Porn/webcam will be in truly HD and with alternative scenes, to match preferences. Dating will be real persons, and your TV will try to match and connect. Maybe not in 2 years, but faster than we imagine. That's my vision :)

Fair enough.

So we will pick up on what has been discussed endlessly prior on tubes and the future of porn. Or what I see in tube pay sites that makes them successful.

1. Customer can see what they are buying. So you need a lot of content.
2. You must provide something they can't get elsewhere. So mainstream porn is out.
3. You really need to find a niche or spin or something you do better than the rest.
4. You must interact with your members, patrons, fan base and tailor content 2 them.
5. Provide delivery of your content in the preferred method. Whether tube, mobile, etc..

:winkwink:

That is where it's headed, and people should be moving their productions and networks in that direction. I agree. Both in quality, and presentation. If you are not investing in the future, you are going to be out of business soon. Maybe not 2009, or 2010. But soon enough.

Well it's a new box on the same idea as when paysites started up. Nothing wrong with it, but it's entirely familiar you know. Many companies dont look past next week I agree with that, but a few of them saw next week from 5 yrs ago too. Those will survive I think. Not many, but some.

I also think there is a potential in 'real' cybersex. In HD. What can be more exciting, funny... and safe? :)

If you asked 6 years ago about people paying $10-25 dollars for a SINGLE CLIPS (i.e. clip store) you had people laughing and saying it would never happen, and surfers would not pay for one scene when they can get 100 for $10-30.00 and so on.

They were wrong then. The masses have been wrong about many things, many times. The surfer, and consumer decide what and how they buy porn. Not the webmaster. This is now more so the Walmart, pull method, that consumers are used to. They ask, or demand and you serve it up when they want, how they want.

Not the old push method that many in adult are still stuck in. We shoot what we want, how we want, with little to no member input (custom requests) and we will provide it to you in the way we want, and you will accept it.

The consumer has shown they are not accepting that any longer, and taking their dollars elsewhere. So the business model has fundamentally changed, just as the technology has changed.

So trying to fight it is futile.

Right now on my tv I can go for adult pay per view, sort by niche, and even preview some of them. I can search for just the adult performer I want to watch. The only thing they dont show is the cumshot on current tv porn. Not sure whats available in other markets, but thats how it is here. 10 bucks per movie, or triple features for like 20 bucks. Subscription lasts 24 hours. No cross or upsells. Just titles, 2257's and away we go. The titles show right up on the bill in the mail, but I dont give a damn if someone knows I watched porn. Wow, I'm so busted. :winkwink:

Wow. I want YOUR cable company!!! :thumbsup

I dont disagree with you, Barefootsies. I was just thinking when reading this thread that this all seems so familiar.

edit. lol, I have time warner cable. It's quick to select a movie, click 1 button and see who the main performers are. There are many catagories of porn on the pay per view and pay per view 2 channels, plus the standard spice, club jenna, etc etc etc channels where you pay for a block of time.

Agreed.

The 2009-2010 flavor is the tube/pay site. Who knows what it will be in 2-5 years.

However, we all know that technology is not going backwards. So productions on the whole need to be wider resolution, and higher quality. Also more tailored to demand. That will ultimately keep you in business despite production short falls.

Fighting the future, or daily threads complaining about the good ole days are futile. Technology will advance, and consumer demands will change. So you have to change with it. While I do not have all the answers, nor claim to, I also keep an open mind on some of these stuff and trial and error it. See if it works, and then roll with it.

That said, it just humors me to see so many fighting the inevitable. The good ole days are over and not coming back. So either start investing in your future, or move on to something else. The industry has passed you by. The one hour work day is over for many, and they simply are too lazy or apathetic to upgrade their company. That's fine. They simply need to just stop complaining about it.

:winkwink:

Very nice.

I have Charter. Even though it's owned by Paul Allen, and you would think that he would be on the technology cutting edge. We seem to fall somewhere in the middle of the pack for those new upgrades.

However, it TW has it. Eventually everyone else will. :thumbsup

Paysites still continue to sell. There is still lots of paysites selling. I should know, I see their bandwidth usage for Member Channels.

Yep.

Good content will always sell.

:2 cents:

It's a paysite, any standard adult biller can process them. And yes, roughly two years ago I saw my first tube paysite. It failed.

Putting all of your content up or members area on the tour, means "your selling content" and not actually selling the people. It's as simple as that.....


That's what "actually" wrong with paysites. 99% let the content do the selling, which is why 99% are failing.


It's so simple... it's the same reason paysites and programs were dieing a full two years before the first tube came around. All marketing on the Internet has changed in the last 5 years. If your selling anything in mainstream the same today as you were 5 years ago, then you're not making crap compared to the people that changed.

It's no different in adult....not everyone is hurting, some changed and have cut ratios in half over the last two years, double sales, set record numbers - month over month.

Not everyone is dieing... sounds like some people need to wake up to the real facts.

Sorry bud. Simply do not agree.

If you have strong content, you do not need to have tours or give away 5-20 minutes of clips, nor try and convince people to buy. They see it for themselves.

On some of my membership sites, I have always shown the whole archive to non-members. They can see what is in there, and even come by daily for 24 hours and grab the new. After that, they have to pay. They click the archived, and get the join page.

Tube sites are just a movie driven version of that presentation. Which has served me well for YEARS. People are tired of being ripped off. Sites with little content. Never update. Promise you one thing, and do not deliver it. That is the reality of this industry. I have found it MYSELF when buying memberships to sites. That shit is cliche for a reason.

Sure, not EVERY site is like that. But I could probably name a half dozen off my head easily. The fact is that little thought is given to the end user, and it shows throughout this industry in the old pay site business model.

Good content that fills a niche or need does not need a sales pitch. People can see it themselves and do not need to be sold on how great your shit is. They see your site, the updates, the content, the descriptions, the models. They can make an informed buying decision without a pitch.

:2 cents:

True dat.

Many of the big tubes have premium areas which are essentially paysites or a white label version of somebody else's. Personally, I think when you find a tube member who is willing to get their credit card out you should be jumping for joy. Remember back when the traffic inside AVS sites was like gold because those people had proved they had credit cards and that they would use them? A tube surfer that proves he will buy porn should be similar.

True... but think what happens when you learn to sell the people and not let the content sell for you.

I guarantee your ratios will split in half.

People only need to be SOLD what is in the members area.... end of story. When you let the content sell, people make up the story of what is being sold.

That's bad marketing.... you should be controlling the story.



8+ years ago, this would be correct.... today, it's not the case or we wouldn't have the mass industry wide problems we do.

Again, if you actually sell the people (not pitch them) you will cut your ratios in half.



GREAT Example to post..... Her team controls a massive network, 100's of sites that NEVER update, some that do, not totally unique content, not unique niches, for sure not super HQ, even faked HD content... They twist and sell that content more ways than most of us could dream.


And yet, they STILL Dominate.... and they sure as hell aren't letting the content do the selling for them - or they would be like the others.

Lol.

I'll let you believe what you like friend. I know what works well for myself, my niche, and how to convert it. I have no complaints on my ratios, and they are not going to get much better than I have both now, and over the years. When you, or your teams, can generate sales like this...


http://www.gfy.com/sell-and-buy-forum/931567-nice-weekend-stats.html

or this....

Join Page

...on that little bit of traffic a day (i.e. not playing the volume game). You let me know, and I'll buy into your sales pitch and selling them marketing beliefs.

Well it technically could always be followed along and I made a fortune from it and peoples personal biases. I know already you were into AOL traffic like I was cause we competed if you knew it or not. I wanted as much AOL traffic as possible, while others laughed at me. To me the standard AOL user (hacks aside) had already proven to me that they had a credit card in the house, and was at least willing to type it into their computer. From there we would take AOL traffic and drop them into a free site upselling an AVS site, which was just a larger version of your free site. Good AVS sites rebilled like a mofo as well. From there you upsold your AVS buyers and rebillers to your own personal even larger niche paysite. You were really getting a shit load of bang for the buck content wise. Even when they hit the paysite the would still buy, be it sex toys or unrelated/non competing niches - often through the very same chain yet again of sending them to another AVS.

Not counting rebills, I could typically expect 3-4 purchases out of one customer and they would be HAPPY. Somewhere people got greedy and wanted all of that upfront and would rather just fuck them out of it. Well that and giving to much away thinking more was better. If person A was giving out 15 pictures, just consider how much more traffic you may get if you gave 20, or the HC or the cum shot and so forth.

As someone mentioned already we can never get the genie back in the bottle. Best we can do is find ways to satisfy the consumers in a way they are willing to pay for. Just find it sad that I went from 1:100 with AOL traffic and a customer that would buy 4 times on average and rebill 3-4 times per stage at a minimum (AVS, Paysite) to now where SE traffic is still lucky to be at 1:500 with quality keys and they may rebill twice if your lucky with 1 purchase. As traffic gets more "free" the more fucked the ratio. TGP was 1:500 and now it often is 1:5000 etc. Come to think of it todays SE traffic is yesterdays TGP traffic ratios.

Fucking GFY freezing up.... :disgust

Anyway Doc, I am sure you know your shit for your mainstream porn and decade in the business and can speak at length, and at conferences on your sales pitch idea, and all this and show people how it works.

However, I know how to sell my stuff. Do it well. Bet there is no one who is going to get the same, or better, results then I am getting myself and willing to bet you money on it.

As I said before, I can't speak to all markets in adult online. Nor claim to. However, I can cite from experience, and post numbers to back up what I say. Unlike many in this industry, or on the forums.

So I'll leave you, and your marketing ideas to your mainstream porn niches, and I will stick to what works in my fetish markets. I obviously have no complaints.

Carry on.
:pimp

I figure anybody that was around back them competed with me :) AOL traffic was gold. Firstly, they had a CC and secondly they weren't usually savvy enough to know about tgps straight away.

btw..I have some AVS rebills that are near enough 5 years old.

As a note, I work in Niches... not mainstream porn. But, this has nothing to with niches or fetishes though. It never has.

If it did, wow so many of us would be screwed.

You can find general niche sites, with a trickle of traffic/sales with 1:5 ratios. It truly isn't an uncommon thing.

What's uncommon is doing 100+ sales a day and having bad ass ratio, cause nobody is doing 1:5 and 100 sales a day.


This has to do with ways to monetize your traffic - a new way to market... and I know for a fact, you aren't using them and anyone that does, improves, period.

Well, this discussion is just getting started.
Barefootsies has made some very good points and I fully agree that the tube sites have killed the paysites, most of them. Today's savvy surfer searches for porn video tube rather that just porn video and ends up on one of the tube with over a thousand free videos....incredible variety to choose from...no need to download....just mouse over or click for a quick previoew and select from thousands other similar clips. And from hundreds of such tube sites. FREE !!
Of couse some paysites will survive but the writing is on the wall. These tube sites are attracting surfers by the thousands per hour and effectively waeaning them away from paysites whcih are begining to look a bit dated anyways.
Do a search on blacklabel ads or adengage and almost all sites at top in terms of daily surfers are tube sites.
So instead of fighting the current it may be better to ride it....create tube sites with very very little free content but give the users an option to buy and enjoy thousands upon thousands of videos in members area. For eve more charges offer HD content and for a little more they can download the clips as well.
The free tube sites will stay around as well as long as they can monetize the traffic which thanks to mushrooming of ad companies is only going to increase. However a user who sees something specific in a pay tube site will happily pay as long as he can see clearly what he is getting and as long as he does not get it free

oh, and dont forget you too can monetize the freeloaders just like those damn free tube sites...infact this could be a good way to give them a solid run for their money.

lets see some more tube paysites examples

They really did? Weird, that I didn't notice it.

:winkwink:

True dat.

...how were MGPs any different? Other than everyone agreeing to keep it to 20 second clips... I see some FLV hosted galleries with videos up to 6 minutes in length now... :2 cents: