here's your free healthcare, dear rabble.
 

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/20/he...ef=todayspaper

no more breast exams, no more pap tests until 50 and 40 respectively.
its rationing, pure and simple. all hail obama.

mammograms:
"""It found that one cancer death is prevented for every 1,904 women ages 40 to 49 who are screened for 10 years...."""

uh, there are 23 million women in the US in that age group. lets do some math.
12,000 deaths are prevented by screening that age group (by their numbers).
not only that, but the argument is now being framed that the "less testing" group are "backers of science driven medicine" and that its "the scientific perspective"
you know, those of us who know early detection equates to lives saved still think the earth is flat.

Its truly shocking that our populous has become so sheepish as to be spoon fed this shit and accept it.

"""For decades, the medical establishment, the government and the news media have preached the mantra of early detection, spending untold millions of dollars to spread the word. Now, the hypothesis that screening is vital to health and longevity is being turned on its head, with researchers asserting that mammograms and Pap smears can cause more harm than good for women of certain ages."""

now early screening is a "hypothesis" and we're supposed to believe early testing "can cause more harm than good"

hahahaha, yes. undetected cancer leads to death, what is the "harm" that matches that on the other side?




wake up sheep.

Sounds like a great plan.



:disgust:disgust:disgust:disgust

there are a lot of arguments on all sides of the debate.

a large % of medical procedures of 100% unnecessary (many will put it at between 20-30%) - whether its doctors forced into practicing defensive medicine to protect themselves from lawsuits, or the procedures themselves are generally thought to be pointless and ineffective (blood screening for prostate cancer) or when patients simply demand x-rays and mri's or additional tests because they personally want to feel better about the situation.

the problem in all this that i can see is that government cannot/will not address these issues for what they are. no matter what changes occur... we still have doctors paying retarded malpractice insurance... we still have radiologists having the most risky profession because they might not notice something or miss something in 1:10,000 x-rays. we still have an over supply of ambulance chasing attorneys and a general "victim" mentality.

people don't want to be told they can't order unnecessary procedures.... tort reform is never going to happen, insurance companies will always be criticized for not covering unnecessary/ineffective procedures as being the bad guys etc etc etc.

people are for reform.

the system should be reformed.

but more than anything...people are for a personal sense of security - which is what they are really voting for - and it really doesn't matter whether or not the reality lines up with their own personal emotional needs. just like a union offers a sense of security... until all of the sudden, there are layoffs, or strikes etc and every employee is still fucked.

this is a losing battle for rational, reasonable people

emotion will ALWAYS win over reason.

There has always been rationing. In a flawless system we would all undergo a battery of tests a couple times a year.

What does this have to do with Obama?

This is a 2002 USPTF study recommendation.

First of all... this article has nothing to do with HCR... as usual you are making imaginary connections in your twisted little brain to somehow justify your belief in the talking point (rationing). You are an idiot sir... k thx. Please stick to doing what you know how to do because political arguments are not your forte.

dear idiot. your inability to connect the dots does not make ME the one who doesn't understand.

Dear child, the FEDERALLY appointed board, is rushing thru these recommendations now so that they are not labeled for what they are (rationing) once rabble like you get your free healthcare.



keep up or please, don't bother posting in adult threads. stick to the threads explaining what you'd hit. :thumbsup

not sure what you have to gain by lying.

Early testing.... “Yes, it helps some people, but it harms others.”

That article seems to be missing a few statistics too. On average, at what age and how often does the average person with Insurance get these tests done?

How often does the person with no insurance get these tests done?

It's extremely safe to assume, every other year and starting points adjusted for coverage of millions of people, is logical and has nothing to do with rationing.

I guess it's a trade off... get rationed by the insurance companies which I have zero power to fight, not even a voice... or let the gov ration us, and we can fight or voice or vote.

I have to agree with Nation-x...typical republican bullshit connection:warning

yes, its a trade off. Those of us who pay our own way trade off the excellent care we get to pay for those who do not pay their own way.


oh, and you do NOT get rationed by the insurance company. you are 100% FREE to pay your doctor directly.

it must be hard being right all of the time.

another with his hand out speaks.

its ok hank, despite what reasonable people believe, you'll get your hand out.

nah, its not hard.

I'm actually laughing because so many of you are going to get what you want and that will lead to you getting exactly what you deserve! :thumbsup

Obama wants clean air and clean drinking water.

Republitards Response: "Damn socialist government! Keep your sick agenda out of our lives! Bring back the real America I grew up in dagnabit! Real Americans love dirty water and polluted air! Obama is like Hitler!"

children posting nonsense on chatboards. One of the banes of the internet.

That's exactly what I think every time I read what 12dicks has to say.

Right back at you, you backward thinking moron.

Who the fuck doesn't want healthcare reform?!

Idiot!

Hey champ... your Doctor covers Gov provided healthcare already. I can't imagine the type of problems a Doctor would have if they adjusted care based on how people paid.

Btw... Not every Doctor takes Cash. I know, it's crazy... but it's true.


They don't ration? Never heard them deny people medication that has taken it for years - to live, because "they" don't think you need anymore. So they ration your medical coverage? You cost to much, so they gota make it up by taking away what keeps you alive... much cheaper to cover you once they are dead and can cash in on a life insurance policy they took against you.

Hell, even if they don't ration you.. they can still increase your rates to match the costs of the medical procedures, deny to cover it and you have no choice, drop you at any time for any reason.... all because the "choices" you made in your life.

I'm in Canada. All I have ever known is tax supported health care. Never had a problem with it personally. I just happened to notice you have a severe superiority complex. You had a little success in life, which I assume beforehand must of sucked, now you seem to think you know what is right/best for the rest of America. Its pretty funny/sad.

dear child, healthcare reform is fine. Thats not what we're getting. We're getting the largest government program ever imagined.

which government program is run well again?

hey champ, every doctor DOES take cash.

I am flattered by your youthful references - thank you old timer!

Military, Nasa, I get my mail like clock work, va benefits role in on time every time, people do get covered on healthcare, irs is always on the ball to tell me when I fucked up.... do I gota keep going?

Now if you want to talk about crap departments, random local branches, etc... yeah we can find that same issue in EVERY business in America. It's not like the Insurance companies is a walk in the park to deal with.

its kind of easy seeming superior on this board. In real life I hang with my equals. Here I mix with rabble with very little concept of the world around them. present company not excepted.:thumbsup

Dang, you're like way wrong... We had to find a OBGYN that took cash. Anesthesiologists also don't always take cash. Some Doctors work for the Hospital, and have no ability to take Cash for services.

You can even search google, #1 term is a lady asking why Doctors won't take cash.

sure kid.
that all sounds good until you type in the words "waste" or "fraud" plus all of the agencies you listed into a google search. I'd suggest you do it but you're not interested in getting the truth, just your hand out.

I can find endless examples of waste and fraud in Insurance companies too.

all doctors take cash. lie as you'd like.:thumbsup

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/k...bblerabble.jpg
http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/k...bblerabble.jpg
http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/k...bblerabble.jpg
http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/k...bblerabble.jpg

no you can't.

Dude. your stupid as shit... They have a program called COD, cash only doctors. just like they have them for Insurance only Doctors.

You can find websites that list the Doctors and what you're needing done, and it tells the type of payments they accept.

Man, you're thick..

hahahaha... sure kid.

Some do, but not all.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...f&oq= &aqi=g2

listen kid, we get it. it doesn't matter what the cost others will pay, how well it works, what others will have to give up, as long as you get your hand out.

we get it.

I suggest you read the links you posted.

Just like you will get your hand out when you become an old man... but then again, you were paying in so it's rightfully yours to claim.

And it wouldn't be a hand out to me, I earned my coverage. And I have insurance.

First result.

"Not all doctors will accept cash payments. "

http://patients.about.com/od/followt...ceptinsure.htm

Just so everyone sees the line in the article:

can't read?
ok, I'll help you.
here's the text from the link you've provided:

Question: Why Don't Some Doctors or Healthcare Facilities Accept My Insurance?
When it's time to find a doctor, whether we need primary care or a specialist, our choices are limited by doctors who are willing to work with our chosen health insurance. How does that work? Why do doctors accept some payers and not others? How does this affect a patient's care?



odd, nothing there about cash.

thanks for playing.

Because you can't read...from the article,

Here is a picture of the "equals" 12dicks hangs with...

http://www.FetishSoup.com/GFY/Stooges.jpg

a one line blurb at the bottom of the page. yeahn ok. so bring your credit card.


what's it like having to be so intellectually dishonest to rationalize others paying for what you want?

ouch, you got me.
did the guy in the trailer next to you laugh when you showed it to him?

12clicks basically says anything he wants, the text I posted is clearly written on that page but he will act as if it is not.

Anyone who thinks all doctors accept cash, must have never been to a doctor in their life. Some dont accept cash and ONLY ACCEPT INSURANCE LOL

WellPoint is a U.S. Corporation...

"WellPoint failed to provide beneficiaries with access to needed medications, charged beneficiaries co-payments higher than allowed and improperly disenrolled seniors from health plans, the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS) said Tuesday...:

"UnitedHealth Group agreed to pay $50 million to settle a New York Attorney General investigation into a scheme by health insurers to defraud consumers by manipulating reimbursement rates, plus another $350 million to resolve class action lawsuits on the same problem."


"Congressional investigators have discovered that large health insurers in every region of the country are relying on faulty databases to underpay millions of valid insurance claims."


"The NY Attorney General, Andrew Cuomo, called it "an industry-wide scheme perpetuated by some of the nation's largest health insurers to deceive and defraud consumers."





I can go on for hours, the search results for 2.2 million pages for one phrase...

lol......

Here at GFY 12 clicks is like that guy at the beach you see playing 5 chess games at the same time vs the tourists.

Nope. He was just upset that I was making fun of his dad.

It only takes 1 line to lay down the truth... you can find more in the millions of results, lots of people ask why they can't get doctor X type to take cash. You simply choose to ignore the facts.


How are you so intellectually slow that you can't understand that everyone pays for all the wonderful crap you have around you and use every day. The roads, the bridges, the clean water and lands, protection, safety....

Ron,

Hand out...this is nothing about a hand out. Actually what the article is quoting from were studies in 2002 to help the health insurance industry, hmo's, ppo's and the like to cut cost by cutting down on expenses for testing that they deem unnecessary and you know it...

So, if you have a health care plan then you know the above has been rationing your shit for years with higher premiums and higher deductibles, preferred doctor lists, referrals, insurance riders and other shit, as I have seen with my health plan.

So come up with a better example and get off the hand out bullshit:2 cents:

it sure does and you sure can:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...6084749AAEwcqv

"""All doctors will accept cash payments up front. (In fact, they probably prefer it, so that they don't have to deal with the hassle of billing and collections!)

You'll have to call around to find a doctor who's self-pay price for services is within your budget.
Source(s):
15 years working for health insurance companies and medical providers""""