Why is it hard to convince people that piracy is theft?
 

Recently through the nature my business I have came into close contact with piracy and content pirates and I can not fathom the mentality of pirates and leechers! As a computer scientist, I have tried to always pay for the license and when I couldn?t use the open source alternative version. This was partly due to respect to my fellow IT men who work hard on the products and a doze of healthy fear of conviction; I extended this attitude to multimedia products as well.
So when I first encountered piracy I told myself that it is some impulse reaction of some consumers who think, because they have paid a lot of money for something they have to share it with others so everyone else can use it. But lately I have encountered more than a bunch of people that do this thing with a burning passion. There are people who produce over dozens of pirated material everyday and put the time to distribute them all over the web. Why would you want to do it, is completely over my head, Now what is worse is seeing some people charging money for access to their pirated material. You might ask why is all this strange to you. Le me give you an example.
Out of any bunch of normal people it is very hard to find people who would just randomly walk into a TV store and pick a TV set up and use it, and defiantly there would be less people who would sell it after taking it. Now say you catch one of these people who did it. The person will confess that he is thief and everyone else will agree with is. You can not find people who would defend stealing they might justify it but will not defend the act it self. Now let?s look at media piracy. out every handful of people almost everyone would gladly use any form of pirated material and some few will try to make money but the thing that is most painful is if you accuse them of theft not only they believe they have not stolen anything but also will fight tooth and nail to prove they are innocent and what they did was innocent! You can never hear that in a court hearing about bank robbery people are using the bill of rights or privacy acts and laws about freedom of speech to justify their actions or get away free from theft charges, but when it comes to piracy they will do it gladly and make the producer look like fat cats who are greedy! And at the end you the hard working producer comes out looking like an ass! Like when Metallica tried suing the pirates! They lost a lot of their fans! Why people think piracy is any different from theft? What moral element is missing in this equation?
Any opinions?

See, your mind is playing tricks on you.
What sane people considers walking into a TV store and stealing a TV set to be the same as sharing something I own.
Say I bought a book, buy your logic I shouldn't share it with anyone because it would be stealing ?
You crack me up.

About the same as trying to tell webmasters by giving it all away for free they only hurt themselves!

I'm sure the tube sites are hurting badly :1orglaugh
Free! Why $0.00 Is the Future of Business

Are you really that fucking stupid?

Loaning someone your book is a whole different action than making a copy of it and selling or giving it to them. Seriously, you arent so fucking stupid that you dont know the difference, right?

You aren't able to follow any logic.
Why don't you comment on the TV analogy genius ?
I was talking about the difference between sharing and stealing with an example that at least matches the concepts.
I never said there aren't differences between sharing hard goods and digital goods.
And this is exactly the reason you are laughed at by "pirates", because you're missing the least amount of common sense and your logic is one of a two years old.

Two things:
1- Loaning a book is completely different, thats why we have libraries and by the way they pay licence fee!
2- Content such as the ones produced by people here are only intended for sole audience and very small domestic sharing, what I am talking about is in very large scale, sure you can share a piece of material with one or two people but I am talking about things such as videos made by Realty king that get over 1000 Downloads per month on only one forum. I think That is beyond sharing something you own! that is damaging the person who created that piece and put effort in it! we all know the price per piece of content is not the real price of it but it is a part of the price!

Main reason being its an intangible product. Also, they are only stealing "digital copies", not the actual product itself so they feel they can distance themselves from any real kind of theft. Time will change this I believe. Its pretty funny that we seem to be de-evolving in that in the early days of the internet certain types of people felt that the internet should be full of free resources for everyone...15 years later instead of building a commercial reputation the internet is known as an even bigger free for all. :Oh crap

Well why don't you explain it to us? What I am talking about is the moral side of the story why pirates don't feel bad doing this? the same pirate who makes all this material available on the internet for free will not still a piece of candy!

It's fraud. By copying and distributing, you lower the market value.
It's just like printing money. The more you print, each unit become less worth. If one country did that to another, there would probably be war. Especially if it were US dollars :)

Say I buy a DVD, with how many friends am I allowed to share it ? and based on what law ? (not talking about digital copies here)

How the fuck can you pirate a tv? You going to buy one and make copies of it and sell or give them away?

I feel like I'm speaking to a fucking retard.

why don't you read the OP again. and this time really read it if you are capable of doing so.

I don't think there is any set rules! it is like the third date rule! It is just a convention if you shared it with 10000 people in United Arab Emirates it is completely ok! why ? because they could have never bought it in the first place hence no damage to the producer but if you share it with someone who was going to buy it but he is not going to buy it because you gave to him that is a damage ! it is based on a very old philosophy :
"Baby go to eat!"

I merely tried to point out stealing a TV and a piece of content should be same.
say four DVDs from MOOD Productions will cost 200 dollars it is same as a cost of normal cheap TV!

it damages the normal users as well, if everyone just bought the product producers would be able to sell it for much cheaper and it would be easer for everyone to enjoy quality material for cheap.

so if I understand you well, this so call pirates, are breaking a "convention" set by whom ?
Just to get it right.
I'm allowed to share the dvd with 10k UAE friends I'm also allowed to share it with 10k USA peeps as long as I ask them before if they're going to buy the damn thing first. Is that what you're saying ?

Why not? If you buy a TV, copy the technology and brand name..then distribute, that is piracy too.

Yes, You can share to the point that you are not damaging the sales, if customers bye the new production to the point that the producers can make enough profit then producers can make them available for free later and make profit on new ones. Basically the people who put time and effort to produce the thing should profit form it. and I think Porn folks deserve it cause not only they are the main target of piracy they get the least sympathy form government or society and they get shit for what they do! which is utterly not fair!

Yeah thats what a lot Chinese producers were doing! which really hurt the producers who put time and effort to come up with the technology!

Thanks for the clarification. Now lets move on.
Lets work with some hypothetical numbers here. Lets assume that globally
about 10% (quite huge I'll say) of the users are buying porn.
Based on what you said above, is it safe to assume that we could share the DVD
with the other 90% of the users who aren't going to buy anyway ?

Pirates know piracy is theft

They do it for fun, or share so that they too can get other free/pirated material or for profit

/thread

I confess the definition of ? going to buy ? is a bit tricky, by going to buy I mean the people who have the means to buy things if they want to! So yes if you distribute your DVDs for free in Africa it does no harm but if you do it in France or Germany or here in Luxembourg it will hurt your business.
My main point it is if someone can bye things they should pay for it if they don?t have the money they shouldn?t use them unless the owner is charitable and gives it away like the Africa case!

I understand what you're saying but let me remind you that in countries such as France, Germany, Luxembourg which you quoted above there are (we can get percents here) a considerable size of people who can't afford that DVD.
Is it ok to share that DVD with this people regardless of the country ?

the problem is thats what we thought at first but as our job is fighting piracy we have encountered people who do it either for a living! or they do it because they think it is what they are supposed to do , so they can stick it to the man! and if you are asking how they can make money just check one of these free hosting sites you get 7 dollars for 1000 downloads and there are forums with more than 1.5 million downloads per month just add the ads spaces ont he forum all other bunch crap and it is profitable business!

Can you read? My post is so short.... at the end it says FOR PROFIT. WTF Is so fucking hard to understand?

The one's that say they do it because they think that's what's right... really just want free video games and movies.

/Thread closed

well if it is your production or you own the full rights I think you can do whatever but remember in France they have the means to buy it but they don't have money so it goes into the work more for more luxury style of life but in UAE you can get your dinges chopped off for buying porn! so I don't mind they copying my stuff! but if in France if they want porn they have to work for it like we work from 8 in the morning to 22:00 !!! Believe me I have my eyes set on this beautiful porche! but I cant afford it yet, you don't see me going there and driving away with it! the point is someone paid for that porche and someone else spend a lot of money making it! so they all deserve the pay off!

Missed that bit! :winkwink::upsidedow

Ok. Let not get derailed here because we are trying to solve a problem. Lets also not restrict this to a country or a group of them because
we are talking about something global and we don't want to get screwed results.
Let me remind you, I just bought a DVD. Please tell me which of the two cases are you supporting:
1. I'm allowed to share the DVD with all my friends who can't afford to buy it
2. I'm not allowed to share the DVD with anyone, if they can't afford to buy it they should work more.

Thanks

Sorry I didn't really understand this!

I would say the second option but the same way we take our poor friends out in our expensive car (Ford Feista!!! ) A little preview wont hurt so they get motivated to buy.
if more people buy the DVD it becomes cheaper, so cheap everyone can afford it!

That is really a moot point when it comes to online piracy, the people 'stealing' own computers and have internet connections. Chances are they can afford to rent movies and buy dvds.

Ok,
so you are agreeing that I am allowed to share this DVD with the people that can't afford it. Correct ?
I'm confused about the second part though. Are you saying that I'm not allowed to share the entire DVD and just snippets ?

That is very good point , MILF hunter offers a one year full membership for less than 100 bucks for the whole year! Naughty america does it for 7.5 USD per month!! a decent internet connection for pirate level Download around here cost 65 euros per month!

Yeah thats more like it, just enough so it is serves as advertisement as well as a preview, so it is a win win situation

Piracy is AWESOME and there is a HUGE difference between piracy and stealing..

piracy is about using force to take what you want (cool) stealing is just taking something that doesn't belong to you...

I will fucking pirate your content, but i will not steal it..

if you had the balls to stop me, i might not pirate your content..

but you are just another whiney bitch which makes me even more exited to pirate things you own..

At this point we are talking about a hard DVD, not a digital copy. Please follow the thread if you want to add something meaningful.

This is quite shocking to tell you the truth. Please tell us more.
Let me remind you the context we are talking about right now.
I just bought a DVD and I'm trying to decide which friends I can share it with.
Please let me know why you think I'm not allowed to share it with anyone in full.

Thanks.

Thanks for giving me a heads up, I don't own anything really we fight piracy and we stop pirates! But you are welcome to try to steal my stuff!

Because if they watch it in full the chances are they are not likely to buy it and that will make the producer go broke and steal a TV!

Bro, i would never steal for you... I will PIRATE you... big difference... :thumbsup

actually it is a related issue! most of the time you lend a DVD to people they will rip it and put it on the net!

somehow I CAN Not USE THE word piracy int he same context you do my tongue gets to big for my mouth when I want to even read that sentance :1orglaugh

I don't really think you are following this thread and its really a shame.
First of all, there is noone to stop me from sharing that dvd in full with my friends.
Second of all let me redirect you to a few posts ago: http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showpo...5&postcount=14
Where you agreed to the fact that I could share it with an unlimited number of people, if we follow some criteria.
We are now trying to establish that criteria but you are starting to contradict yourself and we're just running in loops.
So we are again back at two options:
1. You don't want to have a meaningful discussion based on logic and thats ok, I can forget about this thread
2. You want to debate this problem and you can address my post at http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showpo...5&postcount=29 with an option you can argument till the end.

because quite simply piracy is not theft.

when you take a tv out of a store, the store loses possession of the tv
when i make a copy and give it to some one else the original is still in possession of the original owner

that the point, the fundamental difference, copyright infringement is a FRAUD (claiming you have using rights when you do not) not theft.

The only reason copyright lobbies are like the RIAA are trying to reclassify it as theft is because they want to ignore fair use (the copyright granted right to use the content )

They want to argue that if you don't have permission from the copyright holder you never have permission at all, which is absolutely not true, all fair use is authorized even if the copyright holder doesn't want it to be.

I think the issue here more the sharing bit! Yes you are right, no one will stop you from sharing your DVD with friends and family, Which in prev post I made clear If I was the right owner would not like to you share the dvd you bought from me with your friends in full however I am more than happy if you want to run a preview session of course no one will do this and they will go ahead and share it with friends and I as producer will learn to live with it , my problem is as soon as you share they will either copy the DVD or they will stop buying, So to sum up : No I don't want people who didn't pay to enjoy my production , and no I wont go after people who only share DVD, but I will go after the people who copy or sell it digitally or physically, now my question is how can you guarantee that these poor friends of yours are not goign to resell or copy or uplaod this dvd of mine that you bought from me a small price?

I am just tired of hearing the excuse that the only people who utilize piracy are those who couldn't afford/wouldn't pay for it otherwise. If people want to see something bad enough, they will pay for it but when there is a free option dangling in their face what do you think they are going pick?

Fair use is not distributing on the internet though. Fair use is showing it to friends in the privacy of your own home. Most definitely fair use does not come into play any time a profit is being made.

Ok, this is the second time you can't answer a question and you're trying to answer with something else. Therefore I will answer your initial question and be done with it:
Q: Why is it hard to convince people that privacy is theft ?
A: Because you can't follow simple logic.

Have a good day.

Completely true but issue is all this fair us is ending up as piracy if you just showed to some friends who didn't pay although producer might not like it , it doesn't do much damage but as soon as you lend to anyone they will make a copy and uplaod it, plus when you take the tv out of store the reason it is stealing is the store owners loses profit and gets damaged by the loss of tv it is same for a piece of content the producer will face damage!
And we as a company never go after people who lend each other DVD but we go after people who either sell your content to someone else or make it available for free on the net for millions to download!