My Blackjack Experiment and Tips
 

Since the casino opened, one town over, I have been going and playing blackjack a few times here and there. I have never really gambled prior, including scratch offs, until then. I ONLY play blackjack.

Every time I have started with $100.00, and more recently kept $100.00 in reserve... Just in case I start out rough. Over three months going here is what I have learned, and been successful (i.e. making money, or breaking even) doing.

Blackjack tips:
**Money management is how you actually MAKE money at BJ.**

-Do not follow the "rules" the casino dealer, or other players at table tell you blindly.

-2's and 3's are WILD CARDS. Not BUST cards. I do not double down ever.

-4, 5, and 6 ARE bust cards, and you should double down when possible.

-Double down on (your) 11 only if dealer has a 7 or less is showing. Otherwise, you just take your 'hit'. If someone else at the table wants to throw their money up there, let em. I offer it up to people, some do it, and lose more than they win. But that's greed for you.

-Split Aces and 8's if the dealer is not showing a face, or ace.

-If the dealer is showing a BUST CARD do NOT take the free hit on a soft anything. You want THEM to bust. You will draw a 10/Face more times then not on a 'soft' anything.

-Unless you have the minimum table bet out there, ALWAYS buy insurance when the dealer pulls an ACE. Especially when you have a 11, 20, or higher bet on table.

-Do not do progressive betting, double downs, splits and all that crazy shit. Pick one, and stick with it. You will lose your ass trying to do them all. I typically never go higher than $20.00, and typically play at $15 every hand religiously.

-Set a limit for yourself. Whether double or tripling you money for the day, or time on a clock. What I like to do is win a few hundred in red, and then start asking for green on the win ($15 bet) so they take a few red, and I get green instead. I replace the couple of red from my pile, and once I have all green, and no more red, I leave and cash out. No matter if I am winning or losing, or how long I have been there.

-I do NOT hit on a 12/13 when facing a 2/3. I almost always get the bust card I want the dealer to have.

Keep in mind. The way you are playing YOUR cards will effect the cards the dealer gets. Especially on those 'soft' hands, splits, etc..

-Play consistent!!!!! If you are never going to hit on a 12/13/16 then NEVER DO IT. If you are trying to win using "the force" and always changing your game play on those hands, you are almost guaranteed to lose your ass over time.

-If the dealer draws a 20/21 five times in a row. Get up and move. Same if you are losing hand after hand. Do not let pride, or a nice dealer, fuck up your money. If you are losing, move your ass to a new table and do it before sitting there taking it for 12-25 hands in a row. Especially if you are pulling junk cards.

-When someone enters, or leaves, the table. Typically someone is going to get a BJ. Increase your bet. If dealer gets ACE, buy insurance against it.

-If someone is playing crazy at your table. Get up and move. Their inconsistent play will fuck up your cards whether you are down stream or upstream from them. If you are there to make money, you need to move. If you are there to have fun and do not give a shit, mail your check or money order to....

Keep in mind, these are my tips from experience and winning money playing this way. I used to follow the rules from wizard of odds, and what the dealer and others told me. However, I would burn through my bank roll, and typically only break even or lose. Doing it my way has earned me some nice cabbage playing consistently this way. Regardless of what others say, and the dealer rolling their eyes at you.

Feel free to add in your own tips.

& be sober when playing !

there is no system, you were just getting lucky....i thought I had a system before as well, but....

That's why it is called gambling.
:2 cents:

a lot of what you said is true. but some of it is way off the charts wrong. i could type a university paper on playing blackjack, but don't really feel like it. way to add to the thread i know lol. i used to count cards, read several books and taught myself. i've won 10's of thousands of dollars playing blackjack, and then, i just quit cold turkey once i started making real money in adult. i remember going to vegas for internext in 2001, and didn't play a single game, even though you have to navigate around 200 tables in the Venitiane to get to the elevator lol.

I used to carry the wizard of odds BJ play card with me to the casino, and play according to it literally to the letter. I would keep it on the table and reference it.

I typically would lose.

However, playing my way, especially over the past month, I have managed to win into the low $XX,XXX over some roughly 30 times playing. My main goal when I play is to double or triple my money and leave. I am not looking to win $4000.00 or be one, of many, who play for 9-18 hours to "win big".

Double or tripling my money is good enough. However, sometimes you get one a roll. Past two days I have won just under $1400.00 profit, after my $300.00, over 9 hours roughly.

double or triple is great. the problem, at least for me, was that i got pretty addicted to bj. reading books, high limits table, hell, i've played high limits with our then premier (sort of like a governor in the US), i was kind of obsessed. since i quit 9 years ago, i've only played once on a cruise ship, and once in a snowboard resort in las lenas, argentina. won big on the cruise, lost in argentina. silly game, that bj is.

Well for me, I simply wanted to get out of the house and go out and mingle with actual people doing something else other than work or sitting in front of a computer.

So I read up on blackjack, talked to people, tried out the different progressive betting, and other bullshit I was told. Tried the wizard of odds thing, and kept detailed notes on the outcome, including things that influence my play. Like idiot players. Also my winning, losing, and bets.

I am not saying my way is right for everyone. Most people seem to be there to win big. For me, I am happy to WIN and take money home every time I go. So for me, I read and tried different things in person. Then I would also try them against the computer on blackjack.com. I would make sure that I would pick a similar set up as the RL casino. Using 4+ decks.

I would try the different progressive betting strategies, and I would play the cards according to the "rules" everyone tells you to follow, and I would lose over time, with both RL casino, and online.

However, when I changed my game play to more conservative, and playing to win, not win big, then I would always leave with money. Typically double, triple, or more. I would also win more money over a shorter course of time. Which is key. I do not want to sit in a smokey ass casino for 6-12 hours.

Also, I am not in there to win my mortgage payment. But I hate to lose.

You can't beat the odds and given enough time, you will always lose more than you win at a casino unless you're cheating. Its stupid to think you've outwit the casino (especially you Barefootsies :1orglaugh).

Edit: So my advice is, play poker :)

Whoa - gambling... You might win, you might lose.

I fuck pussy.

heh, well i guess you are on some kind of roll. i've made 10 of thousands, i've also lost them. from playing for over 10 years, learning how to count cards (super hard and super stressful, and really only gives you a slight edge), i can say it pretty much boils down to luck. i have seen a guy win 100K playing absolutely retarded. hitting on hard 17's, splitting 20's, doubling down on 17, etc. it's just luck of the draw.

of course no one wants to lose dude. just saying, if you have any sort of addictive personality, bj is not a great choice.

great to get out of the house though, just don't start dropping serious money (whatever that might mean to you) on it. you will eventually get fucked big time. sorry for being preachy. now i want to go and play some bj lol.

Yep. You have to hit it hard, and fast, and leave.

(insert 'the Gambler' soundtrack here)
:winkwink:

there you go, some good ol' Kenny Rogers 4u

I was ready to write a long post addressing many of your points and why they are just flat out mathematically incorrect and go against years of proven success. However, you seem pretty new to the game and I believe every player has to find their own path. I've been playing blackjack for 20 years and have logged tens of thousands of hours of play offline and played a few million hands online.

I like the fact that you've dove into the game and really tried to figure it out without adhering to a set of predefined rules. I encourage you to continue to tinker with many of the "rules" you listed above as I believe you will eventually begin to re allign them back closer to basic strategy. A big part of your early success I believe is that it appears you are playing at relatively low stakes that are comfortable for you and you are disciplined. Discipline is extremely important to having winning sessions. Too often I've seen friends set "win" goals and get up, but they don't set "loss" limits and continue to chase the comeback.

I would encourage you to learn some simple counting methods (as I assume you are having to play out of 6-8 deck shoes) and eventually incorporate some progressive betting techniques based on the count. Betting flat as you suggested is a long term recipe for disaster, even if you've had short term success. Many of your double or triple up sessions could have been greatly maximized had you employed some simple progressive betting techniques. Even with basic strategy the house has a 1-3% advantage, employing your own rules you've outlined above, the house would have closer to a 6-8% advantage.

The bottom line though is that you've had success doing it your way and nobody is going to be able to tell you to do otherwise if what you are doing now is working for you.

Agreed.

It is very hard to not get sucked into the, "I can double this $750.00 in a few more hours", or the, "If I go to the ATM, I can bet more money", and so on.

For me, especially after reading up, playing online and in the casino, the different ways, bets, and basic strategy.... I have to play regimented and consistent. When I do, and do not deviate. I typically will win. Worst case scenario break even. It is hard to walk away. Winning or losing.

Now, one thing that I did not include and anyone playing well knows is, this is not a game play for EVERYONE. For me, I factor in the time I want to play, and get the maximum return in that time while minimizing losses.

Keep in mind, my objective is to play a few days a week. Win or break even every time, and take home double or triple my initial bet. Once I get there, I will leave. As the saying goes, "The longer you play, the more chances you will lose. In the end, we (casino) get it all".

Today was an exception as I planned to play until 3P, and then come home. Putting in 4 hours. So I made more than normal, which was nice.

Again, this is not a guide for everyone out there. This is really based on my own experience, and conservative nature. I am not looking to win thousands in one night. I am content to slowly milk the casino a day at a time. I also do not want to play for 6 hours, or an entire day. So my game play, bets, and how I play reflect that. I win, over time, minimizing risk and doing money management.

I appreciate that feedback from the other BJ players. Always good to hear your experiences, especially those of you playing with larger dollar amounts, and over decades. :thumbsup

I've studied blackjack statistics, theory and card counting at A level standard. A lot of what you said in OP doesn't make sense from a statistical point of view, but hey - whatever works.

I hear ya, and completely agree.

I have read all the numbers, and stats as well from the various sites. Different in the hand dealt shoe, versus continuous shufflers. The difference in the number of decks, as well as the progressive betting (which are interesting) on how different people play, or gamble.

I guess, as lazycash mentioned, we'll see over time how things work out. Right now, I have tried a number of different ways in real life head up with a dealer, as well as at a full table. Not just one table, but different one's. I have also tried it on computer models, setting the game up the same with the number of decks, and following the wizard of odds card.

It is very interesting, to say the least, with the different results. Again, this is a method that has been working well for me over a month now solid in the casinos and accomplishing what I want in the return, for the time I am willing to invest. So we'll see how things progress over time, and as the 'tweaks' lazycash and quiet mentioned come along.

Only on a 9, 10 or 11. Higher you stand, lower you hit...

You always double down on an 11, unless the up card is an ace, in which case you hit.

Split Aces and Eights regardless of the face up card.


Buying insurance will always make you lose in the long run. Unless you're a VERY good counter and there's a high % of face cards.

Stick to the rule book, with proper play minus counting on an eight deck you can get the house advantage down to somewhere near .4% If you can count, you'll gain a 1% edge.

You only need to limit yourself if you're one to make stupid play. If you STICK to a system you should never have to quit.

12 Vs. 2/3. Hit. 13 Vs. 2/3. Stick.

This makes no sense. Gambler's fallacy - makes no difference because Blackjack has no memory that would affect that.

A good idea to keep your head, but if the count is good - stay.

If dealer has better then a 7 and you have 11 don't let someone double on your bet if you don't want to. If you get dealt a 5 or under you should be hitting again....

Arnox is right, the way to increase your odds is to get as much money on the table when your cards are beating the dealers up card + 10.

But hey play however you want and have fun... I always go in anticipating a loss and if i win it's just a even better time :)

I never claimed it did. I was talking about MY STRATEGY.

People will leave a table if..

1. Players are not taking their hits.
2. Players are playing crazy.
3. Dealer pulls to back to back blackjacks.
4. Dealer pulls 5 straight 20/21's to win.

Everyone has their own rule of thumb. If you play, you know this.

I am not saying the book is right, or wrong. I am not saying people who have played 20 years are wrong. Nor that believing in all the odds will make you win, or lose, better or worse over time.

Let me repeat this for you once more, there are many factors not mentioned, that also play into the 'luck of the draw' not mentioned in this thread. That said, thanks for taking the time to post up chief.

Agreed. Basic strategy.

Works for some.

Agreed. :)

Is this single deck you are playing? That makes a HUGE difference and players have the most advantage playing single deck.
But this part to me didnt make any sense.

"-4, 5, and 6 ARE bust cards, and you should double down when possible."
I would never ever double down on a 4,5 or 6.

Also, if there are idiots at the table, they can make you lose. I like to sit at "3rd base" maximizing my chances of not letting other idiots at the table do stupid things.

Let me clarify for you...

If the DEALER is showing a 4, 5, or 6 face up, and you have an 11 or lower.

I just move.

Them sitting upstream can still fuck up my cards. I prefer to sit at a $15 table versus the $5/10 (whatever is lowest, typically 1-2 tables per night are low at this casino) where most of the crazy shit happens. I have found most of the newbies, "just wanna have fun" crowd stick to the lowest tables.

Being on a higher table then the rest will also minimize, but not prevent, the shitheads who jump in for ONE HAND and then jump out when they bust or lose.

AH! Yes that makes much more sense.

Is this that new Firekeepers casino out in BC? How is that casino? Was still being built when I moved from Kalamazoo in July so I never got a chance to check it out :(

Have you been out to the Four Winns casino in New Buffalo? Damn fine casino, one of the nicest I have ever been to. When I go to the casino I go in to lose and have a good time, thats why craps is my true love, more social and can be a fucking blast when things are going good!

You ever go up to Wayside and play their "charity" blackjack and poker games :1orglaugh Lost many of dollas on drunken nights in that place,good times though.

Correct.

I like it compared to some others I have been to. Although, some of the serious gamblers do not like it and endlessly bitch about it compared to Mt Pleasant, Four Winds, and some of the others.

Nope.

I hear about it all the time from other players though.

Real interesting read bf. I think your on track pretty well. I used to know the book and generally play by it in casinos in mn.

You make an interesting point.. it seems if you are the odd guy making off-book plays and everyone else is on the book, you get the advantage. As you even said, "bet off book sometimes" (but be consistant with you're off book bet, which makes sense) but as you also said leave the table if you get someone really all over the place with their play.

Takes balls of steel to play off the book and piss everyone off tho, but ya pretty much have to have balls of steel to even think you can make it as a gambler.

Remember something I learned on some long losing rides home alone: (when I finally quit for good, altho my friend drags me back and we play with a small limit)

You either gamble or you dont gamble. If you gamble, the game is never over until you quit gambling. Even if you win and leave with their money, the money is only "on loan" until you bring it back into action. Doesn't mean you cant cont to win over time and in essence be ahead, just that it isnt ALL your money until you one day quit. :)

This applies more to slots thos, they win a jp and then continue to come back 10 times and give it all back.

Unless you are really a good player for the value of your time, the real problem is it is very time consuming and them losing days are a bitch, but some guys can do it.

I am sure many have tried for say 30 days. But you have to be pretty good or play fairly high stakes to make your time worth it after those 30 days and thats if you are in the black, heavon forbid after 30 days you are in the red.

That's what breaks most guys. They try and realize it is way too time consuming.

True dat. Quick example for you.

When I first started playing, and even now I see it to some degree, the "rules" change depending on who you are sitting with. If you play 5 days, with 5 different groups of people, they will all have 'tips' and they will all be different.

The most common one's I come across are as follows....

1. Always hit on a 12/13 against a 2/3
2. Always hit on a soft anything, regardless of what the dealer is showing.
3. Always double down on an 11, even against a FACE or ACE.

Those are just a few of the most common one's I hear almost daily. This does not even get into the splits, and some of the other crazy shit I have seen. Like standing on a 12-15 against a FACE, or double down on a hard 17.

What I love is the classic blame game that happens when some are losing. Take the hit on a soft/whatever. You took the bust card. Do not take it, and you should have. Same for hitting/standing the 2/12 thing. It is endless. So you are always going to lose the 'public relations' game.

One of the absolute most frustrating thing for me is, people who do not play their cards and every hand are hoping for a bust. Or claim, he hasn't busted in awhile, and is due, and so on. They play defensive, and lose hand after hand, and keep talking about the bust instead of playing the game right. Typically fucking up the whole table.

I simply get up and move after I see it a few hands. Same for those who hit one time on a 15/16, and the next time don't. Either hit it always, or never hit it.
:2 cents:

yep, mid-level usually has the best players. high limits - hit or miss. most of the time you get players that have a clue, but you can also get idiot millionaires with absolutely no clue what they are doing. when you are playing 400+ bucks a hand, it's hard to not punch someone in the face lol. you know, the guy that hits 15 when the dealer is showing a 6. pulls a 10, dealer gets a 10 (so would have bust), and then a 5. double martini please :glugglug

Agreed.

Although it must be the luck of the Irish for me right now. I have only had a handful of days I did not leave with my full $100.00 (break even) or lost what I had came with.

I also agree with you on it feeling like a job. If you go a few days back to back, especially when I used to play 6+ hours in a sitting. It would feel like a fucking job. Driving over there, and sitting there, and all the run through to make your money.

I have played with some the night and early morning, when home, slept, worked, showered, and went back and they are still there 18 hours straight trying to win. when I came back at noon today. There was a granny just today in fact who was $500.00 down and trying to break even. When I came back at noon today. She had been playing since 6P Friday night. When I took off at three, she was almost even. Maybe down $100-125.00.

Fucking crazy.

It sounds an like newbies trying to make money online, or in porn. They try for 30-180 days with their scripts they paid almost nothing for, using the same over saturated content or sponsors, chasing the same traffic as everyone else with a budget the fraction of their competition, and if they do not make millions they give up.

Funny how that works. :winkwink:

Yep. Played with this one regular Friday like that.

I have played with him before and will typically leave the table. He plays like a crazy man, and has blown through thousands in as little as a half an hour, or $3000.00 was the magic number last night in an hour and a half.

He does shit that makes absolutely no sense. From splits, to hitting on bust (not wild) cards when he has over 12 and sitting at 3rd base, or splitting 7's against a FACE/ACE. In his case, I have NEVER seen him win or walk away from a blackjack table winning. He openly admits he has not idea what he is doing. People have tried to coach him, and he does not listen.

He might as well lite the money on fire.

1. Always hit on a 12/13 against a 2/3
3. Always double down on an 11, even against a FACE or ACE.

Those are right out the book I believe.

My gut always told me if everyone is on the book (and almost all are or the one smart guy will let you know :) hehe) that you need to shake it up on your own vibe to be succesful. If you go along with the crowd and play the exact book out of Hoyles paperback or whatever, that you'll prob lose like all the rest.

--Fun gambling story

I use to play the old roulette system (which I thought only I knew) of always doubling your bet until you win. As the odds with black/red are almost 50/50 (which is why small indian casinos set the cap at $500) so if you bet $2 on black and lose you then bet $3 on say red, if you win you made 1$ if you lose you bet $6, if you win you make $1 and so on. In indian casinos you can play this about 12 hand until you are stretched out..

Actually this is not that old of method invented I think in the last 100 years, anyhow I thought I had a system. after all what are the odds of inessence losing a coin toss 12 times in a row which is what I must do not to get that $1 profit. (then restart the sequence again)

Well you guessed it. I did ok for a while made a couple hundred then the odds got me. I amazingly lost 12 straight! hehe

That was the end of that system :)

Correct.
http://wizardofodds.com/blackjack

Yet that will depending on WHO is sitting at the table. Some want to play the bust. others want to play by the book. So every day that 'rule' is different depending on who you are sitting with.

I'll spare the ethnic stereotypes that crack me up, or I find entertaining and typically reinforced anytime I play. However, let's just say that 'some' are a little more superstitious, and loud about it. :)

Nah. Nothing new. It is called the Martingale.

One of the dealers told me about it, and that is how he plays. You need a big bank roll to do it, but apparently it works for him.
http://www.blackjacktactics.com/blac...ng/martingale/

It is one of the reasons there is a 'max. bet' I guess. Here are some of the other 'systems' that some play, or have tried, in regards to progressive betting.
http://www.blackjacktactics.com/blackjack/betting/

i agree with the ace/face, depending on where you are playing, slap on the insurance, likely to either win, or break even.

12/13, if you are counting cards, that is a fluctuating situation. other wise, just make up your mind and do the same thing every time. i've always counted cards, so my play was a little different at certain times. the BEST place where counting cards comes in, is in 3rd world countries, and cruise ships. they typically usually use far less decks per shoe, giving you a much larger advantage.

i've seen hundreds of guys do this lol.

of course, you can always start playing multiple hands once you hit the max lol. seen a lot of that too.

Amen toe dat shit. :thumbsup

I have only saw one guy, my very first night playing, who was playing $400.00 a hand like that. He ended up leaving with a few grand, but he was down big time and on the ropes before battling his way back. I want to say he left with $3800.00 that night.

While I am sure it could be more common in bigger city casinos, or Vegas. Few I have seen with that kind of PHAT bank roll to pull it off. Or play like that. It is not to say they do not play in the back room, at $25.00 min. per hand. I just have never seen any beyond that one dude.

There ya go exactly. Martingale. I read a book somewhere. This was years ago and I thought NOONE around here knows about this.

But yeah in Blackjack a variation could be successful but yes you would need a bankroll and of course the odds of a disastrous night losing 15 in a row hang over your head. That method has almost guaranteed small results for a few nights but you have to put a money bag on the other side of the odds teeter-totter every night. :)

only 100$ to play with? whats the minimum bet .. 1$?

here in montreal the minimum table is 25$ per hand unless its packed and then 15$ minimum appears

Typically the tables on the floor are $5-15.00 min. bet. You can go into the backroom and play $25.00 per hand if you like. I typically will play at the $10-15.00 tables.

However, that varies based on how busy they are. Some days all tables are $5.00. But I prefer to play on one of the higher tables on the main floor simply to avoid the table jumpers. Or I should say,... minimize them.

man this is bringing back memories. i've done it myself. several times on win streaks (several, hell, many times) i've played 3 hands. the biggest i ever won was one dude playing one hand, and me with three. huge night. min 200 a bet, more for extra hands. i pulled in 20K that night.

i'm glad i quite lol. so addictive. chips everywhere!

Yeah, the dealer dude who told me about it swears by that method. I guess he goes three times a week, and typically says he plays until he wins $500.00 and goes home. However, he said he has also lost all $500.00 as well.

However, he said over 3 years he has tracked everything in a book at home. Winning, losing, how he played and so forth (which had given me the idea). He said that method has served him best over the past year to year and a half.

But you can take it for what it's worth. It was an interesting discussion all the same, and lead me to read up on the different techniques and tactics. I tried some of them a couple of them, and simply did not care for it.

Impressive!!

If memory serves, at this casino you can only split ACES twice, and take one card each. You can only play two hands at once, and you have to have double the minimum on each of them.

I guess the rules can vary, even in Michigan, depending on WHICH casino you play at.

yeah man, it varies greatly. you can play three hands in Edmonton, Alberta (where I mostly played). in vegas, at some of the casinos you can take over an entire table and play every hand yourself. crazy stuff.

in argentina, anything goes, you can play the entire table yourself. i've never done this lol, but it's quite a spectical.

It can be fun and exhiliarating if your on a good table and things are cooking. It is pretty hard to really take the social aspect out and as you say make the long drive to sit in a corner working the martingale on a roulette table.

Or similiarly playing alone in a high stakes room or just playing alone all the time. I hated playing alone with just me and a dealer on reg stakes. Seems you always lose plus it is more ackward to get up right away when you can smell a hot, cocky dealer who immediately rubs you wrong or is real cranky and emotionless which is even worse.

I liked getting on a hot table. At least then you had fun and maybe walk out a winner too. :thumbsup