Paying Designers 4 Work Upfront
 

How many you do pay your designers 100% for work upfront as a "standard"?

:1orglaugh

on small orders with new clients it is standard with us. normally its 50/50

Unless we have an ongoing relationship with the client, we require a 50% upfront payment. 100% if the client seems a bit fishy ;) LOL

My mainstream help invoices me once per month, AFTER all the work has been completed.

You probably have an ongoing relationship with him, then.

Now yes, but it's actually been like this from day one.

I've paid for smaller banner orders upfront once I have a history with someone, but on any site designs, 50% upfront/50% on completion.

That is actually more of a 'standard'.

Just like on the lancer sites. They are doing the work, and getting paid at the END upon completion of specs, and full acceptance of work. You can hold/escrow/flash the cash to them.

But they are not paid until work is done 100% to spec.

As I said in other post....

Just like on the freelancer sites. You are paid upon completion. That is the standard.

That does not mean everyone runs their business that way. But it is more so any industry 'standard' then people being paid in full, or 50% up front. Especially to any new designer with no reputation or notable recognized references or recommendations.

If someone is really good with a solid reputation, and comes highly recommended I can see on your first contact maybe setting up some mile stones on payment for points of completion. But that's a judgment call. However, typically they do the work, send an invoice, and are paid upon full completion of work.

I've never paid anything upfront.

As a client, I've not had a problem with this; as a provider, I haven't had a problem either

50/50 shares risk and provides motivation, but a small item, with someone who is known in the business and has a decent portfolio and reputation, pay 'em up front if it's reasonable -- although something as involved as a site design should be 50/50

:thumbsup

I can't say, "never", because on larger projects like a CMS or things of that nature you always have to take other things into consideration. However, in those cases I/we simply set milestones on completion and payment.

I do not have a problem with doing milestones on a project, especially bigger ones. But I need to see progress along the way, and we have a clear understanding. I also have done contracts. But all depends on who you are working with, and size of the project at hand. New, repeat business, size of project, etc..

I've paid three designers for eight new designs over the last month 1/2. They (the 3 designers) came highly recommended here on GFY, they had great ports, and I started each of them off with a 'test' design. Meaning, I paid in full and if I didn't like the designs then I wouldn't hire them again.

I had a budget to spend and wanted to try differant designers for differant projects. I was happy with all the designs/designers so I gave them more projects and paid them all upfront, in total, now that I knew how they worked, liked their designs, etc.

A happy paid designer does better work then someone who grumbles, or feels pressure, etc. IMHO.

Results (a sample):

www.sexxybrandon.com
www.misterpeabodyeurope.com/index1.html
www.milfmia.com

Still working on the Mister Peabody Europe site - links, and it has to be submitted to CCBill and Epoch - but there ya go. LOL

50/50 is the best option for both parties

Depends. New designer? Repeat business?? Size of project???

While there are plenty of stories on both sides, I can assure you that the number of stories from clients getting fucked over by designers will far outweigh the vice versa.

I know myself I can think of many instances of designers blowing time lines, they themselves set, by weeks/months. I have received designs that were not completed. Designs that still needed revisions after 1st version, and they did not want to do because of dead grannies, their computer blew up, internet connections down, or other 'classics'.

I would be the similar stories of people being fucked by designers far outweigh the examples a designer can give on the other side of the fence. Hands down.
:2 cents:

much more problems occur on the lower bargain deals - combo of cheap clients wanting everything for nothing being major pain in the butt + not very skilled designer with total loss of motivation after first few days dealing with crazy mofos. I don't mean anyone particular, just an observation after years of dealing with both sides of a fence.

i prefer 50% upfront especially from new clients

50/50 , even old clients

It's okay to fire your clients. ;-)

I lol at "to spec" I've never seen an adult related company "spec" anything out, hahahah Not a single RFP even... sad :(

That being said 50/50 seems to be a great middle ground... keeps everyone involved safe. I personally wouldn't trust a freelance guy that didn't ask for 50% up front. It generally means they haven't gotten burned yet so they're inexperienced, hahaha

Edit: And obviously on going relationships are subject to an entirely different set of rules, or even personal recommendations between trusted parties, etc...

:1orglaugh :thumbsup

I have my employee sitting here in the office with me who does graphic design, Wordpress installs, video editing, Photoshop work etc. I don't like outsourcing anything. For crying out loud, I don't want to have to write up an email and get an invoice for every little change.

True dat.

As I said previously,.. designers can run their business however they want. I am sure they can run a business with no clients and be perfectly happy in their GFY lives.

My point was, there is no industry 'standard' of a 50/100% upfront for design work, which some people tend to infer. It varies by client, and relationship as repeat business is a whole different ball game, as is a long term project.

On a side note, some other 'classics' I can think of along this track are getting invoices in a timely manner. Getting things delivered on time. Consistent work where one time it's great, next time is shit... probably because granny died for the 10th time, brand new iMac died unexpectedly and had to have everything reinstalled, and so forth.

:winkwink:

Stop rubbing your good fortune in everyone's face foo. :winkwink: :1orglaugh

I know your guy is and employee lucky mofo. Some of us hire contractors. As for invoices, they are needed for tax purposes for those of us who are not hobbyists.

You could hire me... but you'd have to match my salary :1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Your GF already has that covered in 'perks' my cheeks are not willing to spread.
:winkwink:

50/50 over the net is usually how I've done it with designers

No design for you! (c) soup nazzi :1orglaugh

:1orglaugh

people are just people, all kinds )
what you said earlier about designers is also very true, no denial in that.
some people luck business sense and responsibility, some technical skills, some think they entitled to waist tons of time for minimal reward (pun to crazy mofos).

The greatest experience comes is when you get to deal with civilized people who know what they are doing and have respect of others and their efforts and I must add, usually it turns very productive too.

LOL I just watched that episode last week!

I don't do design, but I ask first-time clients to pay full price upfront. After recurring projects, I ask for 50% then the other 50%.

I use the same model.

And freelancer site is not a model at all, it's a kindergarden.

Amen BROmance. :thumbsup

I am not saying all designers are bad. Nor are all programmers bad.

You will find a rare gem every now and then that not only does what you expect for the pay. They set realistic deadlines, and keep them. They keep in constant contact. They also will/tend to far exceed your expectations set. You feel good when you highly recommend them to others. I have been that lucky in the past year or so.

They are not cheap, but worth every penny.

There are tons of flaky clients around. No point in taking a chance on wasting time on doing something they'll never pay for, no matter how well the job is done. So a 50/50 deal IS the norm for me.
I realize it is normal to be paid on completion - and that makes sense in mainstream where the markups are considerably higher AND when you're dealing with repeat and clients who you know will honor their commitments. But, this is adult ;)

Always 50/50

Mainstream (depending on your definition) is 1000% worse. Not only in flakes, but in scams, hobbyists, and other bullshit. Look at almost any mainstream board for example.

That said, 'mainstream', is a subjective term that means different things to different people. Mainstream online, versus say, mainstream working with you local area business for example. Obviously two different things.

:2 cents:

Yep. Varied by how you choose to run your business.

Just as some clients are not going to pay until the end, when delivered 100%, and invoiced accordingly. That is how they choose to run THEIR business.

Correct.

protecting your business interests > trust another party with your money or resources.
both sides before trusting one another with funds or pulling efforts in must lookout for their own interests and financial security.
that's why I personally find 50/50 to be fair and keeps existing relationships in check and good condition for both sides.

If you're first using outside designers then you gotta view it as a gamble - you must be willing to LOSE whatever you pay a designer. Why? What if he/she flakes? What if the design sucks? What if if if if?

Realign your expectations. Online porn is a gamble, there ARE no 'sure things', so roll with it and don't get freaked if you get burned once or twice. Try Vegas.

:1orglaugh

I couldn't agree more.
In fact, when there is a disagreement and something was made that the client isn't satisfied with, it either gets redone or a refund is issued. The 50/50 is all about commitment.
Actually, in REAL businesses, you know, real AFK business, it's quite the norm for the buyer to have to provide escrow or a bank guarantee, when entering into bigger contracts.
It's just like as if in the online business, no one seems to appreciate the time spent, the resources put into creating something perfect for the client. Only a risktaker would go all out on a 0% down deal - UNLESS it is for a known client with whom there is an ongoing relationship <- that is what it all comes down to.

No one appreciates the bullshit a lot of design jobs turn into that have become classics.

Granny dies 12 times. My new iMac blew up and I have to install everything. My phone dead. ICQ not working for 3 weeks. My email hacked. Among countless other classics many paying clients have heard over the years.

On a real world side note, I am sure that the models working for me would LOVE to get 50% of the pay at the interview prior to work. They would then "promise" to show up for photo shoot and commitment to work. They would of course right? Oh, and be on time?

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

I can only imagine that my cleaning lady, lawn care dude, drive way plow driver, handy man doing construction on my house the past two years would all love to get 50% down before they ever lifted a finger. The quality of the work, and timeliness, would be spot on I am sure.

Barefootsies, when you sell content or anything else - do you provide first and then collect?

I always pay designers up front.

Also when I am buying crack in the hood I often get a local crackhead to go buy it for me so I don't get busted. I'll give him a $50 or $100 bill, have him fetch me a dime bag of rock and bring me my change.

Both work out equally well.

I did it recently with a bigger project of mine. It was a mistake from my side. I am still waiting for a partial refund from this designer... Shame.

My contracts vary.

I can send out content to buyer, without license and docs, with tracking number. They do not get the docs/license until paid in full. I can build sites for people, and control the domain name, and not turn it over until paid in full.

So the short answer is, "have I"? Yes.

That said, a design is no different in your example. A design is one piece of the puzzle. It still must be cut and encoded, typically, to CSS/HTML and integrated into the design. So you are not 'done' until all of it is completed (assuming you actually have the skill set to do it all. Some designers do, some do not).

Hence, you flash your pretty design, and get paid before they can actually 'use' it.

:2 cents:

You will almost never get a refund.

They don't have it.

usually always 50/50.. some take it all if it's $300 or under....

designers who do shit for nothing are the ones you wanna stay away from. :1orglaugh

this question wouldn't even be asked if this was mainstream cause in mainstream custom web design is still looked on as being a "premium service"...

in Adult it's looked on as being a "free service" because no one makes $hit in adult anymore.

Really?

I have always paid my programmers and designers for their completed work. Where are these 'free' ones you speak of in the adult industry?

:1orglaugh

paysites even collect their membership fees before giving access to the full thing - reason why they do it is they have put in an effort to produce or get it and they want to secure their part of investment before providing whole thing.

so on the other hand they don't trust anybody with their product before one puts money on table, on the other hand they ask to trust them 100% in the commitments where they're payees - this model is old and i don't find it fair for all parties involved.. its all about trust and delivery. you expect one put out 100% but laugh when someone expects same from you. i can't find it right.

You asked about MY business. For example, when I build a site for another, or license my personal content. Memberships have nothing to do with your O.P. you had asked in regards to your statement.

Big difference. They see what they want. They pay for it. Receive the goodies immediately for instant gratification. Not waiting weeks of months on end for what they hope is right.

Not exactly the same thing.

Um, if you do fulfill 100% of your commitment, you are paid 100%. I do not see the problem here you are arguing. I did not say anything about someone not being paid for their work. Work being completed that is.