Important Copyright Ruling: LimeWire Crushed in RIAA Infringement Lawsuit
 

Damn! When something goes to court you never know what the judge will do.

I like it if what is reported is an accurate description of the ruling and it holds up on appeal simply having a business model that relies on user infringement makes you personally liable for the infringement. This has the potential to change the entire user submitted business model. (tube, gf site, bbs you name it)

Cue gideongallery in 5...4....3......

You mean that software actually did something besides spread trojans and viruses?

I guess the judge is not a time shifter :(

uh uh uh....

Lime Wire - I have used it. I did not know this case was so serious.

Good ...

.

Interpol is going to confiscate your bot for that.

Please. Limewire wasn't used for timeshifting. The people I knew that used that crap only used to to illegally obtain copyrighted material for free. Timeshift. Just as bad as people that claim they only had child porn for "research" purposes.

Good. I'm glad to see the hammer starting to fall on some of these scumbags.

<-- insert timeshift here -->

Interesting TEST she used.

The second factor would be the problem in nailing "illegal tubes" -- worked to attract infringing users. The rest of the elements are probably present in the facts surrounding most "illegal tubes".

Beautiful. As I've said before, things are moving rapidly against copyright infringers and this will continue to gain momentum despite "safe harbor" and equally lame crap.

The other breaking story of interest where the producers of the movie Hurt Locker are going after the USERS who downloaded their film illegally. They already have cooperation of 75% of the isps.
http://thresq.hollywoodreporter.com/...e-pirates.html

This is all getting quite serious and the bells are tolling...

That's the most interesting part. If they can get a decision to stick on the downloading end-users vs the users that are sharing, that'll be a huge impact decision.

Here is the actual ruling if anyone wants to read it:

http://online.wsj.com/public/resourc...limewireop.pdf

How many of us would owe millions to sony or virgin records if they decided to go after the "little guy" back in the 80's and 90's

http://www.ac-et.com/bargains/photos/large/2828.jpg

J/s :2 cents:

None of us. Because people doing tape trading or making copies to play in their car weren't destroying the music industry. Once it went online and started being mass distributed to millions of people for free...that's when it became destructive.

You should get together with gideongallery. He likes to talk about VCR's. You could bring the cassette deck. I'll bring the reel to reel tape machine. It won't matter...none of it put together for all the 1970's, 1980's and 1990's combined would add up to just one hour of people downloading stolen content today.

i agree 100% but i am LOL'ing at "tape trading"..isnt that what p2p is ?.. the concept is still the same..although the technology obviously is more advanced today..stealing is stealing...just ironic that it was ok to bootleg Van Halen 1984 back in the day off a friends store bought copy but now it could put you in jail or serious debt:Oh crap

Bump for the truth of Robbie. Thanks for the info on the ruling.

Very well stated.


.

Yeah, you're right. In my opinion though...it's not the companies that produced the contents fault. They are simply trying to stay alive. And I don't think anybody has ever had a problem with people sharing shit with their buddies.

I think if people want to place blame, it should be placed squarely on the shoulders of the torrent and file sharing sites that are USING people to upload content that they got from a paysite to create the traffic demand for free shit that the site is monetizing on pre-paid ad spots.

I don't think any company wants to go after the end user/potential consumer. But the way the laws are written has kinda tied everybodies hands behind our backs to keep us from going after the REAL crooks: The owners of the torrent and file sharing sites.

I bump that judge:thumbsup

Gideon's late. Lemme guess, he'll say "will lose on appeal" or something.

This got me to thinking about the stereo system I had back in the late 70s :)

I had everything to make copies but they never went to anyone else.
Albums went to the reel to reel for continuous play.
Albums went on cassette so I could listen to them in the car.
Had lots of friends but I was never asked to make them a tape.

I'm sure others gave out copies but it was nowhere near what happens today with intellectual property :Oh crap

http://www.julie-clarke.com/public_h.../RocknRoll.jpg

Now that's a fucking audiophile :thumbsup

Goddamn! I woulda killed for that system! I never had a real nice system...just a big piece of furniture stereo/turntable that was as long as a couch with the speakers built in the cabinet. I remember getting all excited when I got a second hand reel to reel and thought I was making great recordings of my records. Matter of fact I would play the reel to reel versions I had recorded from my turntable and tell all my friends it was a better quality! Even though of course it wasn't because it was second generation. lol!

But in 1979 I thought it was the best sounding system in the world! :1orglaugh

Looks funny to see all that tech with old-fashioned lamps/tables, though I'm guilty of the same kind of thing, lol. Musta been bad ass...I've lived in apartments/condos for most of my life so I've forgotten what a good audio system sounds like.

Robbie, I always highly value your opinion as both clear and balanced, seriously - thanks for taking the time out of your day to post! :thumbsup

But here I think you make a logical mistake. If it was ok to copy a record in the 80's with/for your friends, in reality I'm not doing anything different today if I were to share a new song with my friends on Facebook. True, it's much easier, many more can do it, it takes less time to produce thousands of copies and with the help of Internet it can be available for being copied around the clock.

But in reality that is really the only thing that has happened. It's much easier to faster produce a massive amount of copies. In principle, it's still doing exactly the same thing, different technology but the outcome is the same. Based on that principle, one could argue that today's craving for "free" is based or fostered from and among those who learned back in the 80's that it was ok.

Make no mistake about it, I strongly oppose copying, file sharing, torrents and the like. Have I tried them, sure, like most everybody else. I quess we're all children of our own time. Just as you say it was ok back in the 80's, one could say today it's ok to copy cd's, videos and so on. The problem is of course the scale, now one illegal copy can slip out and then pretty much ruin the whole product, practically overnight one illegal copy of a song can be in every American home and most listeners in the Western hemisphere. It would have taken an awful lot of time and arrangements to produce that vast amount of copies on regular tapes, and many child copies far out in the family tree would be of so degenerated quality it would not be pleasant to listen to.

Do I think that something need to change in order for content producer's, musicians and other creative artists can earn a living and even take an occasional economical hit if something turns out to not be popular/sell at all? Yes, absolutely. But the only real difference is speed, and that you and I don't need to know each other today to still be able to share/copy a new song.

Not here to bash you in any way, but saying that it was ok at one time and then turn kind of cripples the argument. Speed, preserved quality and easy of contact/organization are the only differences, the principle - copied content - is still the same.

I don't disagree in theory with what you're saying Adraco. But it wasn't just okay in the 1980's. It was okay in the 1960's and 1970's too. And long before that as well. My dad is an antique dealer...and not only was there an Edison phonograph with dual cylinders to make copies, but a lot of folks back in the 1800's would just take a blank wax cylinder, put it on a phonograph and bring another phonograph in front of it and record a copy.

What I meant was that people sharing stuff amongst friends has always been around.

But big websites monetizing it and using people like pawns to do the stealing for them and then monetize the traffic has led us to what is happening today with entire sites being ripped and given away for free to millions of people. Thus completely devaluing the product.

That never existed until the internet age.

That's what I meant when I said that people who produce things never cared about people sharing with their buddies. If I made a cassette copy of the latest Pink Floyd record back in the 1970's and gave it to my best friend...he wasn't gonna be satisfied until he had his own copy of Dark Side Of The Moon without the generational loss and hiss of the shitty cassette copy.

Fast forward to now...and millions of people can just download it online for free in CD digital quality.

That's the difference for music, and why the only place you can buy music is at Best Buy or Walmart. No more music stores. That industry has been all but destroyed and tens of thousands of jobs lost because of piracy.

BIG difference between friends sharing a tape compared to internet piracy and file sharing when applied to the real world.

And the factor that makes it completely different...is the guy running rapidshare or hotfile or piratebay making millions of dollars without lifting a finger while the folks who did the work, took the risks and had the creativity to begin with...starve.

My parents had the same style stereo hi-fi. It had a TV in the middle with speakers on each side and you would lift the top up to get to the turntable or controls. It looked like a piece of furniture and was as long as a couch :thumbsup

I'm guessing this picture was taken around 1977 because of the album I'm holding. Back then a typical stereo was a receiver with a turntable built on top and hardly any stores carried stuff like this. The reel to reel was an Akai that my brother bought in the PX while fighting the Vietnam war. The rest I got mail order. Stereo sound was mainstream and quad sound was just starting to emerge. The Onkyo Receiver put out to all four speakers and when in their place the sound filled the room perfectly.

While my friends all had stereos that sat on their night tables I was quietly spending my paychecks on this setup. Compared to the average stereo of that day it sounded unreal. Friends would come over and I'd blow them away with some Ted Nugent, Boston or Pink Floyd.

Good times for sure :)

This is why I continue to value your opinion and try to read and follow your posts!

Already Gutenberg or the munks/priests copied, but at that time it was books. Allright, we can stop the history lesson there. :)

I of course concur with you that the problem arises when someone makes it a business, a very profitable one, to live and earn off of someone else's property/work. It would be like free books outside the store and free cd's outside the concert and somehow the one giving them out would earn by having ads on his shirt.

And maybe the only way to stop it/prevent it would be to limit the right to free speech, and not allowing such websites at all. Get Google and Yahoo onboard to not list them or the content, that you as an author "registers" your new content with the Big G&Y and receives some kind of key. Then it will only be allowed to be played/listed/shown on sites withch have the autorization key. Maybe making it illegal to advertise on those stealing sites? It's already complicated to host them and not many host's will touch them. By continuing to chase them, the cost of moving or protecting themselves will eventually became too high to make it worth it. Harder bank regulations, not allowing banks to move/handle such incomes. More digital money, so it could be more and easily followed. Unfortunately the US are ages behind Europe in this. I mean, writing paychecks to workers, sending affiliate commissions as checks - it all seems like a big joke :1orglaugh. Haven't seen a check in Europe or Japan the last 10-12 years, but everytime I'm in the States - everywhere. Hopeless! And so much harder to track down than would be bank payments all in the digital world.

Maybe this industry, which I'm not in full time just spare time, would need to come together and create some kind of union to work against this. Then questions comes to who to pay for it and how much? That's a different discussion, but as long as one guy sits over here having his own little empire and another over there with his little empire, it's very easy to use uerilla methods against both and take advantage of them not talking or being organized enough. For someone who sees the opportunity and is a little organized, they can even become larger than all those small empires here and there, and then by their sheer size be able to hire lawyers and techs to protect them, legally and technically.

Off to a meeting in an hour, gotta get ready. Good morning from Europe!

this is what governments do, when they don't have solution or know how they put restrictions. solution for technology is technology.

I think the simplest way would just be for the govt to define "user uploaded"

If it's going to be "user uploaded" then it must be created by the user. And not just a user taking somebodies else's video and piecing them together and calling it "parody" or any other nonsense way to sleeze around the fact.

If you're going to do a "parody" then do it the way it's supposed to be done. Dress up as the characters and film it yourself. You don't see the Saturday Night Live comedy show using actual footage from other sources when they do a skit with the President or a well known entertainer as the subject.

Nope, they show some actual talent and creativity and dress up and act the part themselves. THAT is parody in film.

My point is that if "user upload" = "100% user created", then the problem is solved. No need for censorship or taking away anybodies right to free speech.

Then let rapidshare and piratebay and pornhub and all the rest of them see how well they can monetize video clips of teenage rock bands playing or stupid animal tricks.

That isn't what the music industry said at the time.

Remember this?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ling_music.png

(That was British so you probably didn't see it, but it was massive here).

What about videogames?

How about Don't Copy That Floppy? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_Copy_That_Floppy

Or this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beware_...assettes#1990s

When the printing press was invented, all the monks said it was piracy. And would ruin them.

How do you propose they police the sites to remove copyrighted content?

Piracy can be reduced by a lot and it can happen very quickly. All it takes is for Congress to pass a bill. Piracy is not just going to continue to grow exponentially without anyone stepping in to make some new rules. As internet connections get faster and industries lose more and more money something will be done.

My guess is some government "panel" will come in to rescue the industries effected, (music, movie, software, adult).

The recording industry has already dropped its policy of filing lawsuits against individual infringers in favor of partnering with ISPs to filter for unlawful content.

Congress has also already introduced an amendment that would allow for "reasonable network management" practices such as deterring unlawful activity, including copyright infringement.

If a panel like this was created then sites could be "filtered" by all the largest telecommunication giants. Imagine if this "panel" said we are going to block all U.S. based traffic to Piratebay, rapidshare, megaupload, etc, etc..It would obviously never eliminate piracy but it will put a huge dent in it and at a big cost to our current unrestricted internet.

I remember that one. I think the point is being missed here though. Back in the 70's-80's etc there were no enablers such as Limewire which makes money by making illegal downloads accessible to everyone with a click.
There was no "sharing store," you got a mix tape from a friend. Limewire has made it possible for millions of users to download illegal content everyday and by doing this they are making buttloads of money. Limewire PRO...fuck em. Take out the big enablers of pirated content.

Really?

Wow. I mean, I know America is powerful and all, but are you actually saying that if congress does something, piracy throughout the world will stop?

Even if America *did* run the world, what law do you think would stop piracy? You have people selling DVDs for a buck on the streets. You have uncontrollable P2P. You have private forums. You have private FTP. You have fricking Usenet. How do you stop all that?

But Hollywood has made more money that ever before, for the last TWO YEARS RUNNING? They are not losing money. They are raking it in.

Well, they tried for years to bully and lie and realised piracy went up. So now they are trying to get the ISPs to pay to police the internet. And you think that is likely to happen? Really?

So you, as a pornographer, think allowing your government to watch what you do online and censor it, if it chooses to, is A Good Thing? Are you unaware of what is going on in Australia, China, etc?

People really need to stop wasting their time worrying about something that cannot and will not ever be stopped and start using that time constructively.

Heck, how many blogs could Robbie have set up promoting CM with the tens of THOUSANDS of words he has typed here about how piracy is awful?

I guarantee you this, he would have gotten more sales doing that than he did posting here

I am not pro-piracy. I am anti-stupidity though. And fighting a fight you ain't never gonna win is a stupid fight to have.

I wrote this post called "What if everyone is wrong about piracy" some might find interesting.

http://www.adultmarketing.co.uk/2010...-about-piracy/

its totally different though. back in the day you would let your friends copy your tapes but how many people would really get them? 10..20? With digital sharing you can let 100,000 or more download off your copy. its a whole other level.

Okay, it's been a day and a half and no gideon...did he die?

Where did I say through-out the world? Go back and read my post pal. :2 cents:

I never said STOP piracy, sigh..Again go back and read my post. :disgust I said it would put a DENT in piracy but it could never be stopped.

Source?

Yes I think it can happen. ISPs are already fighting in court for the right to filter traffic.

I never said it was a good thing. I said it would come at a price..

Who is worrying? This is a discussion about an infringement lawsuit and piracy in general.

Cool, but I'm not 'fighting a fight'. Just giving my point of view on the subject. I do think it's funny how certain people get all bent out of shape about it..;) (yes that goes BOTH ways, both the people against piracy and those who are not).

http://www.internetnews.com/governme...or+a+Fight.htm

^ Read that above article, there are SOME BIG PLAYERS pushing for this and it's been an on-going fight.

cue you in every thread

That is TOO easy. If the legislation were changed tomorrow...you better believe those sites would take that shit down INSTANTLY. If they didn't, me and every content producer on the planet would be salivating to get our lawyers on them and I'd own their ass.

Of course there will always be little ones out there too small to notice...but that's not the problem. The problem is the BIG ones who are monetizing our work and killing the biz.

You mean how many blogs I could have written that NOBODY would read because they are all at pornbb or rapidshare of piratebay or pornhub.

Don't weep for me brother...My paysite is doing great. I'm crying about my affiliate work. I've been an affiliate for 13 years. A paysite owner for 3. I've posted my affiliate stats on here many times. That money is now 1/4 of what it was before piracy. THAT is what is killing me.

The inability to make sales with sites that don't know how to protect their content is what is hurting me financially.

And unfortunately I can't do anything about that and neither can anyone else. Only new legislation (which is happening as we speak with an international treaty being worked on) will change it.

But believe me, if I could somehow write blogs about Claudia-Marie and that would magically fix all the other paysites so their shit wouldn't be everywhere for free and I could start making 90 grand a month as an affiliate selling paysites again as I did up until 2008...I would be blogging my ass off right now.

Somehow I don't think a bunch of Claudia-Marie blogs will fix that. :1orglaugh

na the little pussy wont show his head in threads like this, only the ones that go in his favor.

Easy, the "policing" should be done by the site owners. The person uploading the content has to provide proof they own it. Obviously 95% of the shit up there now, is stolen and no proof can be provided.

If everything has to be approved by the site then there is no excuse of " we didn't know".

If the govt then gives out harsh fines, and with too many violations blocks the site at the ISP level, then it is resolved. Let the sites get hit with $500 fine everytime content theft is found on their site and see if they comply or not.

It's easy to police if the fines are harsh.

My bad. I assumed you would want to stop piracy throughout the world. Clearly, if you do not do this, then piracy doesn't stop. You can use the internet to connect to servers on other countries. Maybe you haven't thought your position through. Pal.

Really? You are unaware of this. Hehe. Brilliant.

http://boxofficemojo.com/yearly/

Same with videogames

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28682836
http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/NPD_sales_figures

And music too!

The digital music business internationally saw a sixth year of expansion in 2008, growing by an estimated 25 per cent to US$3.7 billion in trade value. Digital platforms now account for around 20 per cent of recorded music sales, up from 15 per cent in 2007. Recorded music is at the forefront of the online and mobile revolution, generating more revenue in percentage terms through digital platforms than the newspaper (4%), magazine (1%) and film industries (4%) combined.
http://www.ifpi.org/content/section_...s/dmr2009.html

In fact, music sales increased in 13 markets in 2009:
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/n...ts-in-2009.ars

Astounding isn't it? One would think that, seeing as you can download all the 360 games you could want, how you can download the latest movie often BEFORE it out, and that it is painfully easy to nick music that all these industries would be absolutely on their knees. Screwed. Unable to exist cos of evil pirates. But somehow, they are all smashing all previous records?

How do you think THAT works?

Unless, hang on a min, what if they all made up all the figures about piracy all along!?!

"On the government side they looked at three figures which have been widely used to argue in favor of increased IP enforcement. According to the GAO, none of the numbers stand up to scrutiny because they, "cannot be substantiated or traced back to an underlying data source or methodology."

These include a FBI estimate that US businesses lose $200 to $250 billion annually due to counterfeiting. These figures were originally found in a FBI press release, but the agency, "has no record of source data or methodology for generating the estimate." "

http://www.afterdawn.com/news/articl...s_ga o_report

You see, All the other content producing industries act like ours does about piracy. Yet they are all making record sales.

So maybe, just maybe, it isn't copyright infringement that has fucked porn. Maybe we fucked it ourselves with bad business practises. Shady xsells. Circle jerks. Dialiers. Poor customer service and frankly, bad products?


Love to read a citation from the ISPs asking if they can please filter their customers' internet service.

Let's assume, rather than make money selling internets, they want to spend any money policing them for the government. So, how do they pay for the infrastructure? Putting consumers bills up! How else? Brilliant so far. So everyone has to pay more for their internet. It gets better... How do they determine what is copyright infringement and what isn't? They would have to do low level packet analysis. So that means any privacy you had is gone. There will be a team at your ISP searching through EVERY PACKET of data you have to see if THEY THINK it MIGHT be infringing copyright. Then of course, there is the tricky situation with open wifi, spoofed IPs, etc etc.

Do you see? Even if they catch you, they then have to prove the person paying for the internet connection was responsible for downloading a file that is CLAIMED to be copyrighted. Then you would have to prove he DID download it. And it IS what it claims to be.

Jesus. Can you imagine that process?

People that want the privacy to consume content on the internet? Anyone that wants the right to sell content to people on the internet without the government recording everything they buy? People that distribute game patches via P2P. Indy musicians who rely on p2p 'free' distribution to get gigs and deals (kate nash etc). The EFF. The ISPs. The consumers. Pretty much everyone apart from the copyright infringers. They will carry on, as they always have done. See Sweden, France etc for examples of law having NO EFFECT AT ALL on piracy levels. It did increase the purchase of encryption software in Sweden though.

So there you have it.

My pov, backed up with real facts from real sources.

You can never stop piracy. Denting it is pointless. OK, close rapidshare. Who cares? Did closing Napster kill music piracy? No. In fact, the high profile court cases only prove time and time again to INCREASE awareness of how easy it is to pirate stuff and therefore increase piracy.

Spend your time worrying about something you might be able to change. IMHO.

Have a lovely saturday. I'm off to do the gardening.