| Bill8 |
08-17-2010 05:42 PM |
Quote:
Originally Posted by cambaby
(Post 17422431)
All those cars and manufacturing plants on Mars are warming that planet too.
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I can't expect you to look at the science behind the rightwing claim that there either truly is global warming on mars, or that, if there is, it can be compared to global warming here on earth.
understanding the science isn't your political motive, and I understand that.
but if you don't wnt to be a buttpuppet for the oil companies, you might want to check your sources.
Here's a relatively recent and well formulated rsponse to the "mars is warming too, therefore warming here isn't anthropogenic" oil company story.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/...rming-too.html
Quote:
There have been claims that warming on Mars and Pluto are proof that the recent warming on Earth is caused by an increase in solar activity, and not by greenhouse gases. But we can say with certainty that, even if Mars, Pluto or any other planets have warmed in recent years, it is not due to changes in solar activity.
The Sun's energy output has not increased since direct measurements began in 1978 (see Climate myth special: Global warming is down to the Sun, not humans). If increased solar output really was responsible, we should be seeing warming on all the planets and their moons, not just Mars and Pluto.
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What do we know? Images of Mars suggest that between 1999 and 2005, some of the frozen carbon dioxide that covers the south polar region turned into gas (sublimated). This may be the result of the whole planet warming (see Mars images hint at recent climate swings).
Dwarf planet
One theory is that winds have recently swept some areas of Mars clean of dust, darkening the surface, warming the Red Planet and leading to further increases in windiness - a positive feedback effect (see Dust blamed for warming on Mars).
There is a great deal of uncertainty, though. The warming could be a regional effect. And recent results from the thermal imaging system on the Mars Odyssey probe suggest that the polar cap is not shrinking at all, but varies greatly from one Martian year to the next, although the details have yet to be published.
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Summary - the rightwing argument is that an increase in solar radiation must be causing the warming on both mars and earth - THEREFORE we don't need to conserve our fossil carbon, we can drive and burn as much as we like because its the sun that will kill us not carbon dioxide.
BUT - we have been measuring solar radiance officially for 30 years (and unofficially for hundreds), and there has been no increase in solar radiation.
The one scientist who has promoted this theory - yes, that's ONE, as in a single guy, is a russian who hasn't had a single article on this published in the scientific literature - so it can't even be discussed seriously by scientists, it has yet to be stated as a real theory in the peer review process.
Here's the famous 2007 article which is the base of it all, published in national geographic, which is not part of the peer review liturature.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...s-warming.html
Quote:
In 2005 data from NASA's Mars Global Surveyor and Odyssey missions revealed that the carbon dioxide "ice caps" near Mars's south pole had been diminishing for three summers in a row.
Habibullo Abdussamatov, head of space research at St. Petersburg's Pulkovo Astronomical Observatory in Russia, says the Mars data is evidence that the current global warming on Earth is being caused by changes in the sun.
"The long-term increase in solar irradiance is heating both Earth and Mars," he said.
Solar Cycles
Abdussamatov believes that changes in the sun's heat output can account for almost all the climate changes we see on both planets.
Mars and Earth, for instance, have experienced periodic ice ages throughout their histories.
"Man-made greenhouse warming has made a small contribution to the warming seen on Earth in recent years, but it cannot compete with the increase in solar irradiance," Abdussamatov said.
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