The 10 month study of DADT by the DOD
 

...and the Military has been completed. According to the Secretary of Defense 70 percent of troops overall said repealing the law would have positive, mixed or no effects...but those that serve in Combat Arms were for the most part opposed. Combat Arms/the fighters compose about 10% of the Military.

More eyes on.

This is one of the non issues that one day every one will look back and laugh on about how people could be so worried about it. Like whites only water fountains, just a stupid idea.

you know it's always interesting when someone makes a thread about a controversial subject but doesn't take a side - is the King saying that he thinks gays should be banned because "The Fighters" oppose queers? You are with the tough guys I bet right King? The bitchin guys that think decorated fighter pilots should be tossed out because they take it in the ass....

Take a side or shut the fuck up.

If some pole smokers want to take my place on the front lines be my guest. Who am I to say he doesn't have a right to fight for his country?

dude - your avatar kicks ass - fuck those guys

You are not and have never been in my chain of command...thus I do not take orders from you...sport.

OK Mr. "Good Old USA!!!"

69 percent of military personnel said they have worked with gay or lesbian service members - of those 92 percent said it's not an issue... repeal of the absurdly archaic DADT is just around the corner...

Maybe the world is getting a little too complex for your backward way of thinking...sport....

A 10 month study - sure takes a long time.

Wonder how much that cost us.

President Truman polled all active duty military in the 40's and over 80% said NO to integration of blacks and jews. Congress was dead set against it as well. Almost nobody supported desegregation of the military. Truman signed an executive order to banish segregation in the military and it's worked out just fine.

If Obama signed an executive order banishing DADT right now, he'd get spontaneous parades and people wondering what finally woke him the hell up.

This is just one of the issues that the talking heads dance around without even barely mentioning history and how it sometimes takes a pair of actual balls to get shit done.

http://www.trumanlibrary.org/whistle...ion=chronology

Ok.. since I seem to have killed the thread I'll try to restart it.

Some may ask whats the relevance of desegregation? The relevance is that the whole premise for things like DADT is the assertion that being lesbian or gay is a choice rather than what you were at birth. Some people think you choose your sexuality like you might choose a car or a house or a sandwich.

Once you wrap your head around the fact that gay people are born gay like black people are born black, there is no more confusion about why desegregation and civil rights are entirely relevant. In fact, you quickly realise that it's the only thing that is relevant.

Just imagine not letting people who fuck standing up to be married, or telling them to "just not mention it" and everything will be fine. Are you ok with that? Ridiculous, right? Whats next, doggystyle?

I'm not gay. But I am sick of people not understanding the simplest things in the world.

I don't understand the people that are against gays. They should stop having gay babies and the problem will be solved. It's ridiculous how people blame others for problems they create.

Col Oliver North...who is retired military...still has very close ties to the military and spends a lot of his time in the field with them...mostly Combat Arms units...has stated that every single NCO and Officer that he has talked to is against the repeal of DADT. He said that if it is repealed we may lose up to 30% of those that belong to Combat Arms and that may lead to the reinstating of the draft. The Secretary of Defense..as well as some of the top Generals...has stated that it will...at the least cause short term problems.

I read that as 30% of troops overall believe that repealing DADT would have a negative effect and some portion of that 70 percent believes it would have mixed effects or no effect at all. That is seriously the worst wording of poll results I have ever seen. What if mixed effects was 15% and no effect was 25%? All of a sudden, positive and negative effects are tied at 30%, but that line makes it sound like positive is overwhelming majority at 70%. Keep in mind what political correctness beats into everyone's heads, and some of those answers may not even be accurate...no one wants to be labeled a bigot.

Truth be told, the kind of young men that the military is mostly comprised of are extremely immature for the most part, and the last place they're going to learn how to maturely comingle with gay men is from military commanders who likely grew up in an even more prejudiced military background. We're not at the point yet where we can take the next step. Just like slavery needed to step down to segregation first and stay there for a while before the country was ready for full equality, the military needs to be ready for no DADT first before they can consider doing away with it. I am someone with a gay sibling whom I love to death and this is not speaking from any sort of prejudice, but from concern for people like her who would like to get into the military and be SAFE. Right now they would simply be safer if no one knew their orientation than if they openly served, simple as that.

Hell, keep in mind that OUTSIDE of that specialized sector of population, even looking at a supposedly progressive state like California, gay people can't get the full equality they're seeking. That should say something.

It's all false premise and innuendo. All of it. Pure shit. Pure fear based politics and for what gain? To keep being able to disciminate against people because they dont have sex the same way you do?

It's simple civil rights. People are born lesbians, they're born gay. There is no sexuality salad bar where you load up on sexual preference. Why does this not penetrate the brain and sink in? Just dont believe it?

I suspect that you associate with people that have life styles that you approve of...and do not associate with people that have life styles that you do not approve of.

In the civilian world people may put in their 9 to 5 with people that have life styles that they do not like...but after 5 they do not have to associate with those people...and especially do not have to live with those people.

In the military you not only have to work with people but you have to live with people and when in the field it becomes a 24/7 scenario.

So you think if DADT was banished that "all of a sudden" there will be a problem, even though the EXACT same number of soldiers will be gay that were before the ban? Please.

Besides which, in the military, you do what your told and follow the chain of command, dont you. Your point is moot sir.

The number would remain the same but the number that don't tell will not remain the same as they will come out of the closet which will be a surprise to many of their comrades in arms.

While in the military one is required to follow orders and the chain of command...but if DADT is repealed their will be a percentage that will get out of the service and their will be a percentage that will not enter the service...because of the repeal. How severe of a loss and how severe it will affect recruitment...only time will tell.

DADT was implemented to allow gays to serve...prior to that gays were not allowed to serve.

DADT was a flawed policy from the get-go IMHO. There is no justifying pure discimination based on some quality of birth. Be it skin color, religious beliefs of family, gender, or sexual tendencies.

There is of course a justification for "discrimination" if it affects the ability to maintain a viable all voluntary military. President Truman did not have to concern himself with this as there was a mandatory draft in his time. A repeal of DADT will definitely have an adverse affect...and only time will tell how severe the affect will be. I suspect that it will be a relatively minor and short term...and a worse case scenario would be the draft would have to be reinstated.

Changing society's perceptions is CHESS, not checkers. Look how long it took to go from slavery to equality for blacks (and even still it's not REALLY all the way there) and how many different major historical events and truly amazing civil rights activists it took for it to happen.

When I grew up, the biggest insult you could say to another dude was that they were gay, and not meant in an empty way like "that shit's gay" vs. "that shit sucks", but that they liked other dudes. This is in sunny SoCal where people are supposed to be progressive and tolerant. This was in the late 80s and throughout the 90s. Just what, 2 years ago, again supposedly one of the most progressive states denied gays the right to marry...not even a vote such that we denied a certain law that would allow gays to marry, we ADDED AN AMENDMENT to our state's constitution specifying marriage as between a man and a woman! We actually took a step BACKWARD with respect to gay rights, and it was not that close of a vote either - won by over 4.5% after gobs upon gobs of people trying to drum up support to defeat it. So you think somehow society in this country in approx 2 years has advanced far enough from that for one of the most bigotry-prone sectors of it to treat them as complete equals?

NO SHIT people are born lesbians/gay. Smart people and those who grew up with tolerant parents know that. How many of those people are in the military?

*sarcasm* I think we should allow cannibals in the military. They're people too and if a comrade gets shot and killed, they'll have food and won't use up the other rations. People's fears that the cannibal will all of a sudden want to eat THEM in particular is pretty irrational. */sarcasm*

The military report is out and the commanders opinion is that there will not be adverse affects. Have you honestly considered that you might be wrong on this one? I mean really, it's got to make you wonder at some point, it's just a matter of when it is.

It's still going to be the worlds most deadly fighting force, it'll simply be more honest and true and by that virtue, even stronger.