CCBill clamping down on links...

[SilentKnight]

CCBill continues its slow but relentless check-up of client's link pages. As you're probably aware by now, CCBill won't process for website's they don't approve of - nor can you link to any site that also links to sites they disapprove of.

For those of you who use CCBill but haven't received The Call yet, below are the elements/words you cannot link to, and can't link to sites that link to such sites:

> Here's the version CCBill emailed to a client in September 2005:
> CCBill's ''AUP'' limits - cannot have on webpages/site and cannot
> link to such webpages/sites. Any and all depictions and/or actual
> occurrences and/or content and/or marketing and/or references to: 1.
> Underage: Provocative and/or Non-Provocative; including Hentai or
> animations. - 2. Rape: Rape, involuntary sex or forced sex; in all
> mediums including Hentai or animations. - 3. Bodily Excretions:
> Scat/fecal matter, person to person watersports, and/or a woman's
> period or menstruation. - 4. Extreme Violence: Acts of extreme
> violence, and/or depictions of extreme violence in all mediums
> including Hentai or animations. Extreme pain and/or implying and/or
> suggesting extreme pain. Flogging (severe beating). - 5.
> Bloodletting or Bloodshed. Consumption of Blood. (Webmasters note!
> The blood rule can affect your linking to vampire fetish, goth
> fetish, and horror movie fetish sites!) Self-mutilation.
> Cannibalism. Depiction of gore inflicted by oneself and/or another
> individual or group. 'Snuff' or 'Fantasy Snuff' content and/or
> content involving or implying death or serious bodily injury.
> Autopsy photos. (Webmasters note: This can affect your linking to
> necro fetish and "darksites".) - 6. Diaper Fetish: Diapers, Diaper
> Fetish and/or sites which depict models in diapers in all mediums
> including Hentai or animations; Sexual or Non-Sexual. --- Forbidden
> on CCBill's website but not mentioned in the email list: Bestiality,
> Incest. --- Not forbidden on CCBill's website and not in the email
> list, but forbidden according to CCBill staff: Chloroform (chloro,
> chloroformed), Kidnap (kidnapped, kidnapping), Ransom.

So a word to the wise. If you're processing with CCBill - check and recheck your website links, and follow the chain to avoid getting The Call.

One of the largest bondage porn companies almost lost their provider a
couple of days ago for a very similar reaon...they were linked to a
site...and that site had a link list (top list) and somewhere buried
in there was a site with beastiality...so that was over 3 sites away
and the merchant flipped out, shut them down for 12 hours and
basically said if it happens again they'll be out for good.

[ForteCash]

Yeah, I wouldnt process for that stuff either, but kinda sux =(

[SilentKnight]

Yeah, I wouldnt process for that stuff either, but kinda sux =(

Did you even read the list? Much of it on there is perfectly legal in North America - and there's no justification of why they won't process for it. It comes down to their own anal subjective prudeness.

[diesel]

Every move they make is to keep the business safe, clean and honest.

[DWB]

lame. some of that is no big deal at all.

[KRL]

WTF???? Cannibalism?????

Who does cannibalism sites?

That's a new one.

[Theo]

why would they ban Cannibalism?

j/k

[Theo]

LOL KRL was faster ;-)

[Matt Collins]

Every move they make is to keep the business safe, clean and honest.

...and this protects the vast majority of us! I don't mind them taking the safer road as that truly does benefit the majority of webmasters and the inudustry as a whole.

Plus, remember, CCBill is a private company and they have the right to process for whoever they want. No one has a God given right to processing through CCBill.

As an industry, we need a safe and secure CCBill and this is part of the price for that.

Matt

[Tam]

It comes down to their own anal subjective prudeness.

And there you have it, it is their program, their processing, their everything, if they choose not to have dealings with something, they have the right to do so. I know that sounds harsh, but at the end of the day, it is their system and they do have a right to refuse anything they choose to refuse.

And frankly, much of what they have added to that list, I agree with 100% and have wondered why they never did this before.

BUT, in the end, just as your sites are yours and you get to choose who you deal with, so do they and that's just bottom line. I am not being rude, but it is their system.

[Tam]

LOL
Matt, I think we were on the same page at the same time.

[MediaGuy]

Also - I don't know that its CCBill per se that determines these things.

Remember that VISA packs a punch in these matters and probably they're the ones who dictate certain things to the 3rd party guys.

I know one dude who runs a necro site and it doesn't matter who he tried to go with - same thing; Visa said, supposedly, that its a no-no.

[diesel]

I know one dude who runs a necro site and it doesn't matter who he tried to go with - same thing; Visa said, supposedly, that its a no-no.

Really? lol

[RonC]

Every move they make is to keep the business safe, clean and honest.

WINNER WINNER WINNER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is called long term business planning and compliance with Card Associations wishes. We feel that is an important feature of your Processor Company. Do You? I know of a processor that is going to loose their Mastercard Privileges over this next week(don't ask I am not telling and no it is not Paycom) , for not spending the 7 figures per year that we do checking for things like this. Sucks but it is a REALITY.

Maybe I should change our slogan to "We work harder so you can make more money marketing like DIESAL does with CCbill. LOL


Diesal Cya at the PhoenixForum


Ron Cadwell
CEO
_________________
CCbill.com
Cavecreek.com
DRMnetworks.com

[diesel]

WINNER WINNER WINNER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is called long term business planning and compliance with Card Associations wishes. We feel that is an important feature of your Processor Company. Do You? I know of a processor that is going to loose their Mastercard Privileges over this next week(don't ask I am not telling and no it is not Paycom) , for not spending the 7 figures per year that we do checking for things like this. Sucks but it is a REALITY.

Maybe I should change our slogan to "We work harder so you can make more money marketing like DIESAL does with CCbill. LOL


Diesal Cya at the PhoenixForum


Ron Cadwell
CEO
_________________
CCbill.com
Cavecreek.com
DRMnetworks.com

That would be an awesome slogan Ron

[DutchTeenCash]

WINNER WINNER WINNER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is called long term business planning and compliance with Card Associations wishes. We feel that is an important feature of your Processor Company. Do You? I know of a processor that is going to loose their Mastercard Privileges over this next week(don't ask I am not telling and no it is not Paycom) , for not spending the 7 figures per year that we do checking for things like this. Sucks but it is a REALITY.

Maybe I should change our slogan to "We work harder so you can make more money marketing like DIESAL does with CCbill. LOL


Diesal Cya at the PhoenixForum


Ron Cadwell
CEO
_________________
CCbill.com
Cavecreek.com
DRMnetworks.com

exactly

why go just on or over the edge risking everything

better safe then sorry imho

ps love to have a beer or two next week

[SomeCreep]

CCBill continues its slow but relentless check-up of client's link pages. As you're probably aware by now, CCBill won't process for website's they don't approve of - nor can you link to any site that also links to sites they disapprove of.

For those of you who use CCBill but haven't received The Call yet, below are the elements/words you cannot link to, and can't link to sites that link to such sites:

> Here's the version CCBill emailed to a client in September 2005:
> CCBill's ''AUP'' limits - cannot have on webpages/site and cannot
> link to such webpages/sites. Any and all depictions and/or actual
> occurrences and/or content and/or marketing and/or references to: 1.
> Underage: Provocative and/or Non-Provocative; including Hentai or
> animations. - 2. Rape: Rape, involuntary sex or forced sex; in all
> mediums including Hentai or animations. - 3. Bodily Excretions:
> Scat/fecal matter, person to person watersports, and/or a woman's
> period or menstruation. - 4. Extreme Violence: Acts of extreme
> violence, and/or depictions of extreme violence in all mediums
> including Hentai or animations. Extreme pain and/or implying and/or
> suggesting extreme pain. Flogging (severe beating). - 5.
> Bloodletting or Bloodshed. Consumption of Blood. (Webmasters note!
> The blood rule can affect your linking to vampire fetish, goth
> fetish, and horror movie fetish sites!) Self-mutilation.
> Cannibalism. Depiction of gore inflicted by oneself and/or another
> individual or group. 'Snuff' or 'Fantasy Snuff' content and/or
> content involving or implying death or serious bodily injury.
> Autopsy photos. (Webmasters note: This can affect your linking to
> necro fetish and "darksites".) - 6. Diaper Fetish: Diapers, Diaper
> Fetish and/or sites which depict models in diapers in all mediums
> including Hentai or animations; Sexual or Non-Sexual. --- Forbidden
> on CCBill's website but not mentioned in the email list: Bestiality,
> Incest. --- Not forbidden on CCBill's website and not in the email
> list, but forbidden according to CCBill staff: Chloroform (chloro,
> chloroformed), Kidnap (kidnapped, kidnapping), Ransom.

Interesting news. In the U.S., those niches are all either illegal or extremely taboo. I believe the majority of legit webmasters will not have a problem with this.

[Matt_WildCash]

When playing by Mastercard or Visa's Rules its best to go that extra mile to make sure your nowhere near the line of crossing it. We only have 2 decent processors left and luckily they are solid and here for the long haul.

[Manowar]

When playing by Mastercard or Visa's Rules its best to go that extra mile to make sure your nowhere near the line of crossing it. We only have 2 decent processors left and luckily they are solid and here for the long haul.

[JD]

jesus, hentai is on the list? someone please tell them that the weird looking tenticle people aren't real...

bart simpson called me and said he was pissed about this email

[NinjaSteve]

WTF???? Cannibalism?????

Who does cannibalism sites?

That's a new one.

ha! that's crazy!

[quantum-x]

WTF???? Cannibalism?????

Who does cannibalism sites?

That's a new one.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...m+porn&spell=1

4th link. You have been warned.

[Bansheelinks]

http://www.ehacked.com/front_page/articles/cannibalism/

You have been warned.

unreal how sick some people are. unfortunately those pics are real.

[quantum-x]

unreal how sick some people are. unfortunately those pics are real.

Yeah, I changed the link out on a second thought, but now it's back :|
Apologies in advance for bad taste.

[Juilan]

Would Kidnap by aliens be a no-no? I am totally serious.

[czarina]

I don't mind them banning something like cannibalism or necro, but what the heck are they thinking about by banning something like piss. How is that weird? A lot of people love the piss thing, and it's becoming more and more normal. Same thing with diapers. A 35 year old woman dressed in a diaper is not implying that she is underage, it is just a fetish. What will they ban next, school girl uniforms? How about pigtails?

[Bansheelinks]

A lot of people love the piss thing, and it's becoming more and more normal. Same thing with diapers. A 35 year old woman dressed in a diaper is not implying that she is underage, it is just a fetish.

I think they are trying to avoid the association with shitting, banning the diaper thing. Yes its an ultraconservative move but a lot of shit sites have been closed down.

btw, totally unrelated but an interesting fact.......Hitler liked to be shit on by women and pissed on.

[Pornwolf]

Looks like Hentai sites are in for some rough times. Most of the characters look 12 and it seems like they like to show pain.

[AmateurFlix]

they were linked to a
site...and that site had a link list (top list) and somewhere buried
in there was a site with beastiality...so that was over 3 sites away
and the merchant flipped out, shut them down for 12 hours and
basically said if it happens again they'll be out for good.

I hope ccbill wasn't the processor doing that. Not that any of the sites I link to have links to any of this shit (and are unlikely to, since my stuff is mostly softcore niche) however if someone signed up at a site that I'm trading with and got auto-approved on their toplist I'd be pretty pissed if my site got banned over someone else's auto posted links.

[NetRodent]

unreal how sick some people are. unfortunately those pics are real.

No, they're not.
http://www.snopes.com/horrors/cannibal/fetus.htm

[SilentKnight]

Interesting news. In the U.S., those niches are all either illegal or extremely taboo. I believe the majority of legit webmasters will not have a problem with this.

All illegal or taboo? Really?

Best be gettin' Hollywood on the phone and tell'em to close up shop. I could've sworn I've seen many of those topics in the movies.

[CDSmith]

While I agree with most of those rules and fully agree that it's the right of the CCBill owners to decide what they will and won't process for, I do have a problem with the inclusion of "depictions of pain or violence"..... I mean really now, why is it called "acting" and is acceptable when depicted in movies and on TV, but is magically a huge no-no simply because it's on the web?

Something is wrong with such double standards.

There are plenty of fetish models, producers and actors who would take severe exception to those specific rules.

[Bansheelinks]

No, they're not.
http://www.snopes.com/horrors/cannibal/fetus.htm

thanx for posting that, NR. its better to know those are fake than real.

[Elli]

Even Penthouse has featured peeing photos.

[SilentKnight]

While I agree with most of those rules and fully agree that it's the right of the CCBill owners to decide what they will and won't process for, I do have a problem with the inclusion of "depictions of pain or violence"..... I mean really now, why is it called "acting" and is acceptable when depicted in movies and on TV, but is magically a huge no-no simply because it's on the web?

Something is wrong with such double standards.

There are plenty of fetish models, producers and actors who would take severe exception to those specific rules.

Exactly...its nothing but a double standard.

Sure, its their own company and they're free to dictate policy however they want...but that doesn't stop us from questioning their censorship practices.

If they cease doing processing for sites that link to sites that contain their banned elements - where does it all end? Hell, I'm willing to wager almost any site that contains links these days will eventually wind up leading to a porn site of one kind or another far downstream.

And while I realize they're also subject to the censorship whims of Visa...there's stuff on that list that isn't outlawed by Visa.

[corvette]

And while I realize they're also subject to the censorship whims of Visa...there's stuff on that list that isn't outlawed by Visa.

Our AUP is not there just to protect CCBill against Visa issues, it is also there to protect CCBill legally and financially, and we process for other credit cards other than Visa and we have to comply with ALL association rules, not just Visa.

In and of itself, CCBill does not make more money by rejecting sites. First and foremost, we are in business for the long haul and will not engage in practices that put CCBill at risk.

SilentKnight, I happen to know a lot about how our Policy Review Department works and the reasoning behind all of our policies, I can answer any and all questions you have about our policies, no problem?if you really want to know, icq me 45471840

And if I don?t talk to you, have a good weekend

[SmokeyTheBear]

wow hard list to follow. that would basically mean ccbill wouldnt process for any major hollywood movie.. I cant think of one movie that wouldn't contain at LEAST 1 of the things from that list.. so does that mean no linking to sites like google ? warner bros ?

[gornyhuy]

By these definitions, does asslicking and anal sex count as scat?

[KRL]

No, they're not.
http://www.snopes.com/horrors/cannibal/fetus.htm

http://www.ehacked.com/front_page/articles/cannibalism/

Those don't look like faked fetuses. They look totally real.

Holy shit, its gross and discusting either way.

[Mr.Right - Banned For Life]

That is great ccbill is doing that.

[SilentKnight]

Our AUP is not there just to protect CCBill against Visa issues, it is also there to protect CCBill legally and financially, and we process for other credit cards other than Visa and we have to comply with ALL association rules, not just Visa.

In and of itself, CCBill does not make more money by rejecting sites. First and foremost, we are in business for the long haul and will not engage in practices that put CCBill at risk.

SilentKnight, I happen to know a lot about how our Policy Review Department works and the reasoning behind all of our policies, I can answer any and all questions you have about our policies, no problemhahaha8230;if you really want to know, icq me 45471840

And if I donhahaha8217;t talk to you, have a good weekend

I'm seldom on icq - but if you'd be so kind as to provide answers here in the forum, I'd be appreciative...I'm sure a few others would be interested in hearing them as well.

My questions are rather basic and straightforward - why does CCBill outlaw processing for sites that contain material protected under the 5th Amendment and Charter of Rights - content that can easily be viewed in a large number of mainstream Hollywood movies these days (i.e. - extreme pain or violence, consumption of blood).

And why is the onus placed on webmasters to police the content of links twice removed, and how does a webmaster ascertain the content of a paysite link without paying to access the member's area?

For example - as it stands now, if I have a link to a site that unknowingly contains something in their member's area that contravenes CCBill's acceptable content, I'm still at risk of losing MY processing. Therefore, I'm left with the choice of either losing the potential affiliate revenue...or risk the possibility of CCBill pulling the plug on MY sites.

We're currently processing with Verotel, but have considered using CCBill in the past on some of our sites. But since we handle primarily bondage & fetish production (all content legal in both U.S. and Canada) and the majority of our links deal with the same subject matter - CCBill's policies give me cause for concern.

[Ian]

I'm fine with all of it. The hentai stuff is kinda confusing to me but it's gotta be definitely more confusuing to any Jap afficianado who's wanking his crank to it,tentacle beings and all.

[FetishTom]

The double standard is puzzling - I can use my VISA card to purchase tickets to a mainstream film containing a woman being drugged/kidnapped but not to a website that contains an identical scene.

Is it the argument that the website is designed to appeal sexually which is not the intent of the film? i.e. primary intent is the issue not the actual scene. This is pretty specious as film makers include all sorts of imagery a lot of which is designed to appeal sexually - in fact the website is more 'honest' in that the intent is more open.

Also who died and made VISA or any other credit card company God? If content is illegal and I am constrained from viewing by the laws of the country I reside in then that is reasonable, albeit with some caveats I will not go into here.

But if the content is legal then what is VISA's problem? If VISA (or whoever) does not 'like' bondage and denies access then I am being censored by a private company which did not give me a list when I signed up for the card dictating what (legally) I could and could not use it for. Would you be happy to be handed such a list along with the card? Woud it not be more honest then this back door censorship?

And say the next thing could be 'we don't like black dudes banging white chicks' or 'we dont like black dudes period' or 'Indian resturants are a blight on our community so no more curries will henceforth be purchased via our cards' It has to start somewhere and banning legal content is always worrying.

A lot of people here are getting 'sniffy' about scat sites (pun intended) and 'good on CCBill etc' but wait untils its your turn and see how you feel. I do not care for scat sites but have no desire to ban people from viewing them.

I do not blame CCBill for protecting its business, its there to make money and pissing off VISA is not a good business plan. Staying ahead of the game is also sound business. My point is more about the principle of what is happening and the dangers or where this policy could lead.

[corvette]

We have spent a lot of time, effort and resources creating polices that we feel make us safe on a variety of fronts; legal, financial exposure, various contracts/covenants, etc...as well, it is not a secret that we are conservative in order to maintain the excellent and long-lasting relationships that we have with our upstreams

Then we have also spent a lot of time, effort and resources creating various systems, processes and procedures designed to efficiently and effectively bring the riskiest accounts to the attention of the Policy Review staff asap

It took a team of people 1 year on just the design and architecture of the Policy Review system, as well as an enormous amount of my time

Then we spend a lot of time, effort and resources constantly reviewing new accounts as well as our existing accounts.

I am going to let our record speak for itself

We feel all of our decisions come from a very reasonable standpoint, and if you do not agree, we can discuss your account on a one-off basis

[SilentKnight]

We have spent a lot of time, effort and resources creating polices that we feel make us safe on a variety of fronts; legal, financial exposure, various contracts/covenants, etc...as well, it is not a secret that we are conservative in order to maintain the excellent and long-lasting relationships that we have with our upstreams

Then we have also spent a lot of time, effort and resources creating various systems, processes and procedures designed to efficiently and effectively bring the riskiest accounts to the attention of the Policy Review staff asap

It took a team of people 1 year on just the design and architecture of the Policy Review system, as well as an enormous amount of my time

Then we spend a lot of time, effort and resources constantly reviewing new accounts as well as our existing accounts.

I am going to let our record speak for itself

We feel all of our decisions come from a very reasonable standpoint, and if you do not agree, we can discuss your account on a one-off basis

So, in summary...you and the company spent an enormous amount of time on essentially - becoming subjectively conservative.

Fine.

But that doesn't answer my earlier question:

Why is the onus placed on webmasters to police the content of links twice removed, and how does a webmaster ascertain the content of a paysite link without paying to access the member's area?

[jjjay]

Did you even read the list? Much of it on there is perfectly legal in North America - and there's no justification of why they won't process for it. It comes down to their own anal subjective prudeness.

it's their business, they can run it how they like. you don't have to use them. go get a merchant account.

[corvette]

We feel all of our decisions come from a very reasonable standpoint, and if you do not agree, we can discuss your account on a one-off basis

SilentKnight, i had written the above in order to answer that portion of your question. If you had submitted an account to us and it was rejected, we can discuss it on a one-off basis.

You mentioned that you were not (currently) a client, you can call it what you want, but our clients feel comfortable that their processing structure is well-protected and reinforced.

If you have any more questions, feel free to email them over and ill get them answered, have a good night

[email protected]

[SmokeyTheBear]

no offense ccbill but this is just a legal "out" isnt it..

Basically this means ccbill can pull anyones account at any time being so open ended like that

ASACP contains several sites that would fall into the description above ( example guba.com ,pisspalace.net )

So people cant link to asacp ? or they can but legally you could cancel their account at any time you choose because the site would have violated your TOS ? .. shaky territory indeed

[2HousePlague]

Rock on, CCBILL!

It's all about trust, baby.




2hp

[KCat]

Why is the onus placed on webmasters to police the content of links twice removed, and how does a webmaster ascertain the content of a paysite link without paying to access the member's area?

That would be my concern as well. I don't do any hardcore on my site at all, but I do link to other webgirls. Even a link to a cam network might contain girls who do pee shows or mature couples who still have sex during that time of the month.