Do you think shooting porn is the road to riches?

[Bman]

Totally agree. The "Glamour" market is falling by the day and thankfully not a market I've ever made a lot of money in.


Or is Steve buying content from Max Candy because he's a crap shooter?

Oh Paul,
As much as I think your a good photographer, I do believe you are wrong on this point. A good glamour picture today will outsell any amateur picture. Now by glamour I mean stuff you see in American mainstream magazines such as FHM or Maxim or the half nude South American or European versions. Just beacuase you throw a lot of light at it does not make it "Glamour" However Glamour changes quite considerably over the years. Look at playboy and you should know what i mean; even the photography in Hustler.
Also i believe that there are very few people shooting real Glamour in this biz, cause really and truly the ones who can quickly move on to mainstream mags and products and make a hell of a lot more money. A lot play the game, only a few play it well.
;)

[Major (Tom)]

i can name a few big programs that have shitty content but do great.

duke

[Zuzana Designs]

I believe your investment is what will make you money .. spend less get less back .. there are so many niches out there and everyone is diff.. you have to get what the surfer wants or webamster to make sales off the content in bulk .. they may want the amateur in the kitchen masterbating with fruit cause it makes them feel closer to the model .. if you promote glamor you need those pics .. this topic is sooo wide that does anyone really know what does best .. you can say I know what made me money, but so can the next... it comes down to what the customer wants (surfer)
I have friends that love the amateur stuff.. and when I say why they say cause thats what makes it feel real cause they hate the staged stuff

[reynold]

there is no easy way to success... every field/profession requires a lot of faith and determination in order to succeed.

thanks for that one!

[jonesy]

mr markham?

[reed_4]

How I love porn!

[Paul Markham]

Oh Paul,
As much as I think your a good photographer, I do believe you are wrong on this point. A good glamour picture today will outsell any amateur picture. Now by glamour I mean stuff you see in American mainstream magazines such as FHM or Maxim or the half nude South American or European versions. Just beacuase you throw a lot of light at it does not make it "Glamour" However Glamour changes quite considerably over the years. Look at playboy and you should know what i mean; even the photography in Hustler.
Also i believe that there are very few people shooting real Glamour in this biz, cause really and truly the ones who can quickly move on to mainstream mags and products and make a hell of a lot more money. A lot play the game, only a few play it well.
;)

A true Glamour set will make more money than most sets. The problem is the market is shrinking.

Micheal Ancher, one of the best free lance glamour shooters in the world, will shoot and sell 20 to 25 sets a year. He sells them everywhere and at all levels. An individual set will make more money than a teen set.

But we shoot 100 teen magazine sets a year and the over all earnings are higher.

[Paul Markham]

i can name a few big programs that have shitty content but do great.

duke

Very very true. But as this thread has nothing to do with programs what are you getting at?

This thread was to warn/advise new shooters what they need to compete in todays market.

If Lightspeed started today he would still be successful with poor equipment, because he has the talent and totally understands his niche. But he would be getting ahead faster if he had better equipment?

However equipment and being able to use it was just two things I mentioned. But the is seems the most important to most. To me the most important thing is what Steve has and can't be bought. Then researching and learning. Mayber some here think you can shoot pporn with only the equipment.

The equipment can be bought and any half decent shooter should be able to buy it.

Solo girl day Custom shoot = $1500
Model = $500
Location = $200
Extras = $100

How bad are you not to invest $5,000 to return a $700 profit before equipment. Equipment that if bought right will last for years. Expected life span of decent equipment 500 shoot days. 500/$5,000 = $10 a day.

Neither photography nor pornography require only the equipment to be good.

[Paul Markham]

there is no easy way to success... every field/profession requires a lot of faith and determination in order to succeed.

thanks for that one!

Very true. I missed them off my list.

[Paul Markham]

I've made my living for 6 years now with no training in photography, video, computers, html, design, or marketing. Pure drive which has lead me to where I am.

Then you're the same as me, I've had little training from other guys in the business but mainly survived on drive and my wits.

Where did I advise to get training?

Teach me pls. Because I am shitty photographer

Come to the studio and you can watch me work.

[Paul Markham]

It's not the shot that sells, it's the story that it tells.

Very true, which is why most of my advice is based on learning about what you're shooting. This costs little money but does take some time, not a long time, and research.

shooting exclusive custom content is a 'mom and pop' biz . . shooting like you and max candy is something all together different . . shooting like joa @ ama is different still . . . I can say one thing though with absolute certainty: most of the models I see on tours I would not be able to shoot . . .

Shooting like Max, Aaraon, and others does take skills and experience and I would advise people not to start at that level. But then the idiots would tell me I'm scared of the competition. Like someone starting up is going to jump in at this level.

It's funny that if I said I was going to jump in at the level of Topbucks or Adult.com I would be flamed and called an idiot. But shooting content it seems anyone can jump in at any level and be a threat.

[2HousePlague]

It's not the shot that sells, it's the story that it tells.

...and the whistles and the bells, and the heavens and the hells --

2hp

[WWC-Pajio]

...nice thread!! It's good to hear those things...

[Paul Markham]

...nice thread!! It's good to hear those things...

It's always good to talk about the business.

[travs]

This is something new huh.

"There's no money shooting porn"

I've had some discouragements like these few years ago---which is "there's no money being a webmaster".

All I can say is...you'll never know unless you try.

[Big Red Machine]

The 16K new videos you mention ,then the ShoeBox Producers. Yeah thats alot of porn.

[jaYMan]

I totally disagree as well.

[joefriday]

pual let me ask u this question then can u rape a prostitute or is it just stealing????????

[joefriday]

i meant paul

[Paul Markham]

i can name a few big programs that have shitty content but do great.

duke

Agreed.

However why do they do great?

Because the surfer is more likely to click on a link to shitty content?

Because the surfer is more likely to sign up to shitty content?

Because the affiliate is more likely to sign up to shitty content?

Because they saved money on buying shitty content and put it into driving traffic?

Also, did the affiliates make more money because the site had shitty content?

Or.

Did they start back in the days when it was easier and living on reputation?

Or are they unable to tell the difference between shitty content and good content so doing the best they can.

BUT HOW MUCH MORE WOULD THEY HAVE MADE HAVING GOOD CONTENT?

[Paul Markham]

This is something new huh.

"There's no money shooting porn"

I've had some discouragements like these few years ago---which is "there's no money being a webmaster".

All I can say is...you'll never know unless you try.

There's a fortune is shooting porn.

It's just not easy as some think.

[amateurcanada]

Models aren't too difficult to find, who do you think is fueling the 44 filmes a day hehe. I've made tons filming on crappy equipment, always a year behind teh times specifically because people are sick of mass produced adult pornography. If your niche is amateur friendly go for it :D

Just some thoughts. Don't be afraid to jump into the pool.

My best advice is this, test your marketing ability, see what others sell then try to market them to see if you will turn a profit. If you do not profit from promoting others, you will NEVER profit promoting yourself ;) and you can quote me on it...

[Paul Markham]

pual let me ask u this question then can u rape a prostitute or is it just stealing????????

Would not know. Never had to rape a girl to have sex or steal to make money.

What is right for you is not always right for others, but do tell us your answer.

[Webby]

Where in what I posted did I say amateur porn is not a good seller?

People in the UK know these magazines, go look at Escort, Razzle and New Talent. We are one of their major contributors. Look at the readers wives pictures in the back of Club Confidential, we are the major supplier.

Amateur is a great market and we shoot for it all the time. But it still needs skills that I mentioned in my original post. Or did you miss this?

"Amateur" has got to be one of the strongest niche markets in the UK - always was!

It may only be me, but still think the UK makes the best "amateur" content with a "real ragged at the edges" look. I remember an editor for Paul Raymond on Escort mag (you prob know who I mean) who loved 35mm sets shot handheld on a cheap Kodak camera

[jimb]

hey Paul, not to bash you or anything but look at it this way. Every business is based on the owners drive to gain success. In this business you can have shitty content, shitty site design, and much more shitty stuff. BUT if you work hard and hustle everyday to get traffic up, then your building an empire.

Give it 5 years and your the size of lightspeed or bigger

Just another way to look at it.

Jim

[s9ann0]

downloading porn is the road to riches

[reynold]

I want to get rich thru porn. business and pleasure should go together.

[SilentKnight]

Do you think shooting porn is the road to riches?

After looking at it from every possible angle over the past decade - I can best sum it all up by saying:

It depends...

[SilentKnight]

Interesting thread Paul - and you raise a lot of good points.

One that I'd debate over is the $5k in equipment. A lot depends on what you're including in that five grand, though. If you're including studio space, then I'd tend to agree. But if you're only talking of camera and lighting - then I'd say you can get away somewhat cheaper than $5,000 if you shop around and research prices and gear.

You can get a decent dslr these days for around $2k (we paid $2100 for the e10 about 3 years ago (including cable release and tripod) - its well over 100,000 shots and still shootin' like a charm). As for lighting, although I primarily shoot with available light whenever possible - I did build a pair of diffusion softboxes for the studio for under $100...and they work as well if not better than expensive store-bought ones.

And of course, a lot depends on what kind of content you're shooting. Other than a 30,000 sq. ft. old industrial building we occasionally lease in the summer months for studio space across town - I don't generally pay for locations. I prefer scouting around for old abandonments and alternate places that don't require putting out cash for.

Just a few thoughts...

[nastynun]

Paul I have always wanted to ask you. What is the deal with just "shoving" a dildo or vibrator up your models? It looks so unnatural like it does not belong there. It has the look of how a female feels when using tampons. It's just THERE because it has to be. It never seems to really look erotic or enticing on the models faces other then their cheesy smiles. Is this some sort of trademark you use?

P.S. I don't know many real girls who shove vibrators up their asses or twats they use them to vibrate the clit not ass fuck with. That's what dildos are for or real cocks..

I know people will laugh at these questions but my girlfriends and I buy a lot of content and we have talked about your content before and the topic came up. So please do FILL us IN

[L-Pink]

Paul, I luv ya man.

But I hate to say that I disagree. I've made a good living, with no photography training, shitty equipment, and flying by the seat of my pants the whole time.

The trick to making it in this biz is doing what you love. Pick one thing you do well, and love to do, then do it better than anyone until the money starts flowing. Heart goes a long way in this biz. The most successful people in adult usually started as hobbyists! ..... (and drive mini-vans)

Steve Lightspeed

........

[Jamie]

example and it's doing amazing

http://www.bikiniscam.com/maintour.php/11/28/A

That's just a ripoff of Netvideogirls, nothing new

[Elixir]

shooting porn makes me happy

[toddler]

I agree, but you don't have to produce good content to make good money. I think the most part revolves around your skills (Marketing, sellling, etc...)

We've already proven multiple times that you are a complete fucking tool. The above just reinforces that.

[ContentSHOOTER]

Could not agree more. Some many people are fed up seeing this glamour airbrushed photography, real is better.

Well said Batts, I have no idea how anyone could get off to a girl that is so over lite and on top of that airbrushed, and those oh so lavish settings and with every hair in place to. Just my

[Elixir]

shooting porn makes me happy

[RogerV3]

hardwork is the way to go.

[2HousePlague]

hardwork is the way to go.

A fucking men.

2hp

[J. Falcon]

Very interesting thread.

[Shinjiro]

Could not agree more. Some many people are fed up seeing this glamour airbrushed photography, real is better.

I think in this aspect it is to each his own. I personally like the glamour air-brushed style of pornography because of the simple fact I like the bitches that I beat my meat to looking perfect. I can understand how some people like the reality style, but its just not my cup of coffee.

[F-U-Jimmy]

Its been 38 years and im still loving it. Would not change a thing and made a good living from it, what more can you ask for ?

[Manowar]

a lot of content shooters going out of business or changing path right now, it's depressing

[BVF]

If you don't have a budget of $5,000 minimum for equipment forget about it. Even that budget is pushing it..

I know this is from 2006 but this right here is BULLSHIT and it was the same back then.

[Barefootsies]

I know this is from 2006 but this right here is BULLSHIT and it was the same back then.

Agreed.

I started my whole production company for less. Including equipment, lights, and 6 shoots.

Paul is right on some things, but when he is wrong. It's so ABSURDLY wrong. It takes the kudos off of the times he is right on anything.

[Peace]

Just be more creative and success will come. That is what i believe in.

[xenigo]

Some of the stuff in this thread cracks me up. Sure there's guys who can't hang. It's called business for a reason. Most people don't have a vision beyond getting paid to look at hot naked chicks. Most people think that's what I do for a living.

And I think Paul's correct about the cost... it will cost you that much if you buy good cameras (5D Mark II, 24-70, 70-200, and lighting) But on the other hand, an amateur photographer isn't going to know what to do with that equipment anyway so it's a little pointless. It's only after you gain experience that you realize the advantage to owning the high-end equipment.

[BigRod]

I wouldn't say shooting porn is the road to riches, but once you've found the road to riches it's a great way to spend your time!

[Paul Markham]

a lot of content shooters going out of business or changing path right now, it's depressing

Yes very true. With so many telling you how easy it is it's amazing how many are going out of business. The two do not tally up.

It's easy to point a camera at a naked girl or couple, it's hard to make it so good it will make someone pay for it.

[r0t8]

i've always wondered how you find models. seems like waiting months to ask them after you've become friends with them would be really inefficient and you wouldn't get many that way. if you're looking for 10 new models that could take years going that route. do you hand them business cards at clubs or what? i'm a web developer, a good photographer, and pretty decent looking so i could do everything myself if i could just find willing girls.

[Paul Markham]

I know this is from 2006 but this right here is BULLSHIT and it was the same back then.

Then maybe you would like to give us your budget to the road to riches for shooting porn.

Like so many flamers there is nothing behind your statement. Give us the list of what you think a guy needs to buy to be successful shooting porn. Yes he can start with a $500 stills camera and a $1,000 video camera and maybe buy them second hand. But will it lead to riches? And do it with prices at the time I wrote the post and not todays prices.

If you think so tell us how it works. Barefootsies can also do it.

Peace is right, the future will belong to those who are more creative. The pity is in todays market few will be. But that will be good for the few who are.

xenigo $5,000 does not buy high end equipment. But what you call high end I might not.

Yes you can cut the budgets and be like 1,000s of others cutting the budgets. But when the girl or couple walk onto a set and see you with your bottom end kit they will start to think you're not a pro. A pornographers job has little to do with photography or the equipment. It's the ability to think up a scene, convey it to the models and make them perform that scene. Having good equipment is one step towards impressing them you have a clue.

Even if it's all switched off and you're using amateur kit they still know you're a professional. I'm shooting more and more content with me mobile phone for the mobile phone market. But the models know I'm a pro because they see the pro kit.