Are there any good reasons WHY McDonalds workers shouldn't be earning $15 to $20 an hour?

[$5 submissions]

Most of the beneficiaries of an increase in fast food worker wage rates will be young single females. This is also the demographic group most susceptible to going on welfare if they have children out of wedlock. Proponents of boosting the minimum wage of fast food workers to $15 to $20 say that there would be LESS welfare dependency and social subsidies if these workers get higher pay.



According to some estimates, the economy would improve due to higher spending power by fastfood workers which comprise a large chunk of the working population. Also, the cost of a Big Mac will "only" increase by 68 cents. 68 cents USD.

Do you buy this argument? Would would be GOOD REASONS for keeping wages the way it is?

[mineistaken]

And how many businesses (especially small ones) would fail because they won't be able to pay their employees what MCD would be paying? Everybody would need to increase salaries big time, that would mean inflation.

[$5 submissions]

And how many businesses (especially small ones) would fail because they won't be able to pay their employees what MCD would be paying? Everybody would need to increase salaries big time, that would mean inflation.

How about the businesses that would get increased business because fastfood workers would have better purchasing power?

Mind you, I am not advocating one way or the other. I am just saying, look at both ends of the equation.

[SuckOnThis]

Clinton wanted to raise the minimum raise back in 1996 and Newt and the rest of the republicants argued it would drive the economy into a recession. Clinton was able to get it raised twice and we saw the biggest economic explosion in US history. Republicans on the wrong side once again.

[L-Pink]

Consumers don't want to pay the increase in food prices due to salary increases, sales drop, workers are laid off, existing workers overworked, remaining customers don't like declining customer service, sales fall further, more layoffs …..


Also … If you have never owned a small business employing minimum wage workers you don't realize most are over-paid at minimum wage.


Maybe the problem is under educated young females with children. Fix that PERSONAL problem before telling a business owner to help rectify their piss poor life decesions.



.

[poncabare]

why would you pay them triple for doing something any trained monkey could do?

[SuckOnThis]

why would you pay them triple for doing something any trained monkey could do?

Kind of ironic coming from someone who runs a truck drivers dating site, don't ya think? How much do you think truck drivers should make? $4 an hour?

[Joshua G]

yes. at 8 bucks an hour, restaurants prefer cashiers. at 15 bucks an hour, restaurants will fire their cashiers & replace them with touch screen ordering systems.

[RubyGoodnight]

There are jobs out there that already offer $15 to $20 an hour - including positions at Mc Donald's.

If someone working at McDonald's wants a job that earns them $20 an hour, apply for them. If they get the job, it's upward movement. If they don't get the job, work on the skills they need in order to get it.

Minimum wage is there for a reason - as a first step for getting onto the 'employment ladder' - not as a long term income.

[tony286]

People would rather have the collective pay for welfare programs because god forbid it goes to a livable wage. If it stood with inflation it would be about 20 bucks an hr. Which is a glaring reminder how flat wages have been for 30 yrs.

[Paul&John]

Consumers don't want to pay the increase in food prices due to salary increases, sales drop, workers are laid off, existing workers overworked, remaining customers don't like declining customer service, sales fall further, more layoffs ?..


Also ? If you have never owned a small business employing minimum wage workers you don't realize most are over-paid at minimum wage.


Maybe the problem is under educated young females with children. Fix that PERSONAL problem before telling a business owner to help rectify their piss poor life decesions.



.

this

[TheSquealer]

Makes perfect sense. Everyone here wants to pay 10.00 for a Big Mac.

Genius.

[Dvae]

Why $15 - 20?
Why not $35 - 50.

[Robbie]

$20 an hour to work at McDonalds?

Is there any common sense left at all? Everybody can't make that kind of money. There is a reason that UNSKILLED workers do the work they do and get the money they get paid.

And there is a reason that people go to college and become skilled to EARN that kind of pay.

I would say that anybody who believes in all of this kind of talk should just take a look at what it gets you: Detroit

Detroit has been run by Democrats for decades. Hasn't had a Republican mayor since the 1950's. Completely unionized, etc., etc.

If you want to see a lab experiment in real life of what the results of this kind of economic thinking are...just look at Detroit.

[fitzmulti]

A > So we don't have $10 Big Macs / Whoppers.

B> See "A"

[arock10]

So $20 an hr is $38k a year (40hr work week) before taxes. Most of this money would go back into the economy and would actually be a livable wage.

Instead people make $8 an hour and use the government to make up the rest...

[brassmonkey]

exploitation low paying jobs raising a item 300%+ what it really cost

[beemk]

Kind of funny coming from a guy who has employees in third world countries who most likely pays them less than $3 per hour.

[dyna mo]

based on my visit to kfc today, yes. they don't perform at $17 hour level.

hadn't eaten fat food in ages, got a hankerin, bellied up to the counter and ordered some extra crispy breasts and was told they were out, it would be ~15 minutes. wait, you're out of fried chicken at teh kfc? who's running this place? oh, yeah, figures.

[L-Pink]

So $38,000 is the pay for a job you can learn in 1 day?

[mikesinner]

It should be going up at least a couple bucks but in the long run it would do little to help them. I'd rather see universal healthcare developed in the U.S like it is in every other developed country.

[brassmonkey]

So $38,000 is the pay for a job you can learn in 1 day?

sure my first job was materials handler. working with chemicals

[videobunch]

Mcdonalds, Walmart or any place like this is a job for teens getting into the work force. Teaches them the fundamentals of work so they can move on after getting an education or while getting one. The issue is, people think they are entitled to more and instead of working for it they rely of gov to bail them out or bitch and complain. These were not jobs designed to be a forever or to provide for a family.

My wife put herself through college while working at Sams Club. She made $6.50 per hr. Sure she could have stayed there her whole life but as most, this was not her life long dream. I started out cleaning boats for $5/hr while in high school, then went to prepping boats for new sales to working on boats before college. So it all comes down to the individual.

You wanna be lazy, then be happy with your $8/hr and stop being a burden on the rest of us. Making consumers pay more for products and good because your lazy ass wants a hand out does not solve any issues. But then again we are a place where everyones gets a trophy even if you finish last.

[L-Pink]

sure my first job was materials handler. working with chemicals

Did you have a work hoodie with your name on it?

[videobunch]

Most auto worker jobs don't take any more brain power than working at a fast food place. Yet they don't have to work for minimum wage.

That is why more and more robots are taking over those roles. They wanted more pay for entry level jobs as well. Not to mention how many times have you heard the auto industry needing bailed out or filing for bankruptcy. Back then, you;
1. Went to the plant to work and you worked your way up.
2. Went to college
3. Joined the military.

[Dvae]

sure my first job was materials handler. working with chemicals

Translation. You worked at a Meth Lab.

[baddog]

There are several; but the fact that you started this thread means you don't really care to think about it.

[brassmonkey]

Translation. You worked at a Meth Lab.

actually it was at a major cosmetics company you would know the name.

Did you have a work hoodie with your name on it?

when i worked at shamrock yes. i worked in the freezer my first year.

[tony286]

Mcdonalds, Walmart or any place like this is a job for teens getting into the work force. Teaches them the fundamentals of work so they can move on after getting an education or while getting one. The issue is, people think they are entitled to more and instead of working for it they rely of gov to bail them out or bitch and complain. These were not jobs designed to be a forever or to provide for a family.

My wife put herself through college while working at Sams Club. She made $6.50 per hr. Sure she could have stayed there her whole life but as most, this was not her life long dream. I started out cleaning boats for $5/hr while in high school, then went to prepping boats for new sales to working on boats before college. So it all comes down to the individual.

You wanna be lazy, then be happy with your $8/hr and stop being a burden on the rest of us. Making consumers pay more for products and good because your lazy ass wants a hand out does not solve any issues. But then again we are a place where everyones gets a trophy even if you finish last.

63 percent of min wage workers are over 20 yrs old. It costs you when adults are the working poor. Also your $5 hr was worth alot more than min wage is worth today.

[Robbie]

So $20 an hr is $38k a year (40hr work week) before taxes. Most of this money would go back into the economy and would actually be a livable wage.

Instead people make $8 an hour and use the government to make up the rest...

Really? I've never known a teenage kid working at McDonalds as their first job "using the govt. to make up the rest"

I'm not even sure what "the rest" is. You work, you get paid. End of story.

If they jack up the food industry wages...then two things will happen:
Eating at McDonalds will cost a lot more
And even MORE teens and young adults will be out of work.

I'm just shocked that you or anybody else don't understand that young people with NO experience or training need entry level jobs. You're suggesting taking all those jobs away.

[Robbie]

63 percent of min wage workers are over 20 yrs old. It costs you when adults are the working poor. Also your $5 hr was worth alot more than min wage is worth today.

Then that would be people who are unskilled labor and/or older folks who are supplementing their social security income.

I know a lot of people who work at Walmart. Never met even one of them who was on welfare at the same time. A lot of them are women who work the registers and dept's and the money they make is the second income along with their husband's income. They depend on that second income (and the employees discounts they get at Walmart) to make ends meet.

And MILLIONS of families depend on Walmart's low prices to be able to buy things for their homes and also groceries now that Walmart has food as well.

Tony, you are talking about driving prices up so far that poor people will not be able to afford it anymore.

[brassmonkey]

actually it was at a major cosmetics company you would know the name.



when i worked at shamrock yes. i worked in the freezer my first year.

shamrock is one of the best companies in the united states. it's open 24hrs 7 days a week. if you need employment go there.

[Tom_PM]

History has proven over and over again that increased spending power in the hands of the majority means increased economic growth in all segments of society, hasn't it?

A miserly bah humbug is usually the answer.

[Minte]

If you are going to pay fastfood workers $15,what are you going to pay welders? $50, Tool & Die Makers $100?

[brassmonkey]

If you are going to pay fastfood workers $15,what are you going to pay welders? $50, Tool & Die Makers $100?

with the profit margins they have it would not hurt them. greed plus if they pay you like that you wont be working for them long they dont want that

[Robbie]

History has proven over and over again that increased spending power in the hands of the majority means increased economic growth in all segments of society, hasn't it?

A miserly bah humbug is usually the answer.

Yes...when the majority of the population is SKILLED. You don't just hand people money for nothing. And paying a grunt at McDonalds $20 will not help the economy in any way. The exact opposite will occur.

If it's such a great idea and everybody would make more and the world would be full of rainbows and unicorns...then don't you think that guys who are a lot smarter than you would have already done that?

According to that philosophy their businesses would just be booming!

But strangely enough...none of them believe that. Only people who don't own their own businesses think it's a great idea to pay unskilled labor big salaries that they don't deserve.

Wonder why that is?

[$5 submissions]

Kind of funny coming from a guy who has employees in third world countries who most likely pays them less than $3 per hour.

It would be supremely ironic if your statement wasn't so ignorant of facts. 1) I pay way more than minimum wage here because I need ROI-positive productivity 2) $3 per hour would be LOTS of money here 3) you can't blindly superimpose US wage rates/standards of living all over the world-you have to view local wages in context. I guess I couldn't expect you to think through all that.

[Robbie]

with the profit margins they have it would not hurt them. greed plus if they pay you like that you wont be working for them long they dont want that

That is the problem with this country. The "they can afford it" mentality.

That's not the way it is supposed to be. You WORK for your money. Not just show up and get paid what you think you should get because "it would not hurt them" and they must be "greedy"

No. There is a reason some people rise up. There is a reason that some people are smart enough and brave enough to take risks and start a business in the first place.

And there is always room for people who are smart and hard working to move up the chain.
Even at McDonalds and Walmart. There are people making a damn good living. But no...not the fry cook or the checkout girl.

[$5 submissions]

There are several; but the fact that you started this thread means you don't really care to think about it.

Well, it probably elicited a better conversation than flat out saying that the minimum wage has a disparate racial impact and serves only to distort wage signals throughout the economy

[Robbie]

the minimum wage has a disparate racial impact and serves only to distort wage signals throughout the economy

wtf????

You think that the guy asking me if I want to supersize that meal making a "minimum wage has a disparate racial impact and serves only to distort wage signals throughout the economy"

What a load of crap. It's unskilled labor. It's entry level work.

Let that same person put some time in. Let him move up the chain. And if he's really wanting to make a career at McDonalds and he has the drive and ambition he will become a manager. And maybe one day own his own franchise.

But entry level? Seriously? "distort wage signals"???? And the race card???

[$5 submissions]

How many guys in this thread would agree with this statement: The Minimum Wage is RACIST?

Here's one guy that agrees (not the future NPR commentator asking the question in the beginning):

NOTE: The first paragraph of the answer echoes L-Pink's comment. Interesting, no?

[$5 submissions]

wtf????

You think that the guy asking me if I want to supersize that meal making a "minimum wage has a disparate racial impact and serves only to distort wage signals throughout the economy"

What a load of crap. It's unskilled labor. It's entry level work.

Let that same person put some time in. Let him move up the chain. And if he's really wanting to make a career at McDonalds and he has the drive and ambition he will become a manager. And maybe one day own his own franchise.

But entry level? Seriously? "distort wage signals"???? And the race card???

READ FURTHER, ROBBIE. Minimum wage laws = ARGUABLY the most racist laws on the books. See the video I posted above.

[Robbie]

How is McDonalds hiring a young man for minimum wage racist?

If I owned a McDonalds and had to pay $20 to the guy flipping hamburgers, I'm never gonna hire some slack ass teenager.
I'm going to hire a grown man who will EARN that $20.

And then you are going to have even MORE teen and young adult unemployment. And that is going to lead to more crime.

Where do you expect teens and young people to get their first jobs?

"Hi, I'm 17 years old and I would like my first job ever to be a $20 an hour gig screwing around at McDonalds. I would also like the sun and the moon and the stars please".

[TheSquealer]

Funny how the broke, unemployed and labor of the world always seem to think they understand how business works and think they know how to run an economy. GFY is 90% employees or the unemployable. Makes for great entertainment when the subject turns to business. Where is 12clicks when we need him???...

[$5 submissions]

How is McDonalds hiring a young man for minimum wage racist?

If I owned a McDonalds and had to pay $20 to the guy flipping hamburgers, I'm never gonna hire some slack ass teenager.
I'm going to hire a grown man who will EARN that $20.

And then you are going to have even MORE teen and young adult unemployment. And that is going to lead to more crime.

Where do you expect teens and young people to get their first jobs?

"Hi, I'm 17 years old and I would like my first job ever to be a $20 an hour gig screwing around at McDonalds. I would also like the sun and the moon and the stars please".

Well, it has a racial element when BECAUSE OF MINIMUM WAGE LAWS, young people with no skills can't be hired. If you are young and have no skills, your output is probably not worth the minimum wage and mandatory benefits and other expenses related to employing you. So, you don't get hired. Most of the guys who suffer this are *DISPROPORTIONATELY* BLACK and ethnic minorities. ABOLISHING MINIMUM WAGE LAWS would do more for racial progress in America than all of Al Sharpton's divisive BS. Indeed, it was labor unions who pushed for minimum wage laws to protect union workers from the low wage price competition of African-Americans. See below for more info:

[Robbie]

I can agree with that. I think people should be paid what the market for their skills will bear. No more, no less.

The minimum wage laws have good intentions. But like everything...there are unintended consequences like you just pointed out.

[Mutt]

Well, it has a racial element when BECAUSE OF MINIMUM WAGE LAWS, young people with no skills can't be hired.

Why then do we see so many black teenagers working fast food jobs if the minimum wage laws according to you stop unskilled minority teenages from being hired?

You are calling for the government to download welfare costs on private industry, which isn't fair. Minimum wage jobs were never meant to support a teenaged mother and child, they were for teenagers living at home and now old people supplementing their pensions.

I just googled and saw this http://money.msn.com/now/post--fast-...-actually-want

Independent fast food chains seem to be paying employees more than the big chains - they can because they don't have the corporate overhead and other costs big chains do. BUT read what the owner of one of these independent places has to say - he runs his restaurant with 4 employees per shift, where McDonalds has 7 or 8. The smaller guy can run a more efficient restaurant than a big franchise chain can. If McDonalds could operate with the same efficiency there would be even less jobs for unskilled young people.

[Buncha]

According to some estimates, the economy would improve due to higher spending power by fastfood workers which comprise a large chunk of the working population. Also, the cost of a Big Mac will "only" increase by 68 cents. 68 cents USD.

This "68 cents" claim originated from a Huffington Post article last week. It was debunked the next day by the Columbia Journalism Review:

A Big Mac miss by The Huffington Post

The Huffington Post reports that McDonald?s could double its workers wages by raising the price of a Big Mac by 68 cents. It went large on the Internet on Tuesday.

Unfortunately, what it originally claimed was a study by a University of Kansas researcher turns out to be something?a term paper, maybe??given to Huffington Post by a KU undergrad. And there are serious problems with it. The correction on its provenance came too late, though: it?s all over the internets.

-------------------

The bottom line is: This ?study? and The Huffington Post are both wrong.

Unfortunately, bad information spreads pretty fast these days. The false findings got picked up far and wide. I retweeted a Henry Blodget post at Business Insider before looking into its origins.

FULL ARTICLE - http://www.cjr.org/the_audit/a_big_m...e_huffingt.php

And so HuffPo posted a retraction:

Errors in McDonald's Wage Analysis

On Monday, The Huffington Post published a story entitled "Doubling McDonald's Salaries Would Cause Your Big Mac To Cost Just 68¢ More." HuffPost has since learned that the research used as the basis of the story contains significant errors that cast doubts on its claims. This story has replaced the one originally published in this space.

The story drew on data presented by Arnobio Morelix, an undergraduate student from The University Of Kansas who identified himself as a researcher for the school. In an interview, Morelix told the HuffPost that only 17.1 percent of McDonald's revenue goes toward salaries and benefits, meaning that for every dollar McDonald's earns, a little more than 17 cents goes toward the income and benefits of its employees.

However, as the Columbia Journalism Review subsequently noted, Morelix's analysis only takes into account the payroll and employee benefits of McDonald's company-operated stores while excluding franchise businesses. Prior to publication, HuffPost asked Morelix if his analysis included franchises and he said it did. He later conceded it did not. McDonald's franchises make up more than 80 percent of McDonald's restaurants worldwide. This means that a majority of the payroll and employee benefits of McDonald's workers are not included in Morelix's findings.

A typical fast-food restaurant spends 30 to 35 percent of its income on labor, according to a recent release from the Employment Policies Institute, a research organization whose work is often cited by those who argue against increasing the minimum wage. The institute estimates that small-business owners who run McDonald's franchises spend about a third of their income on wages, which would mean the price of a Big Mac would go up by $1.28 to $5.27.

A doubling of wages at McDonald's would almost certainly involve some layoffs, asserts Dean Baker, co-director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research and a HuffPost blogger. At the same time, more workers would stay in their jobs longer, Baker added.

Experts generally assume that roughly one-third of the cost of increased wages gets passed on to consumers, with much of the rest of cutting into profits, Baker said. Regardless, McDonald?s is so vast and lucrative that it could easily survive a major wage increase, Baker added.

?The idea that it?d put McDonald?s out of business, there?d be no way,? said Baker.

By the reckoning of Bonnie Riggs, a restaurant industry analyst at market information and advisory firm the NPD Group, a doubling of wages for all McDonald's workers is "not even in the realm of feasibility." With fewer and fewer Americans eating out at restaurants due to factors like the payroll tax hike and increases in gas prices, Riggs said restaurants like McDonald's are trying to discount prices as much as possible to get customers through the door. This means the company's profit margins could not withstand a labor cost increase of this magnitude, she added.

FULL ARTICLE - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3672006.html

[Robbie]

And there you go... reality.

[brassmonkey]

That is the problem with this country. The "they can afford it" mentality.

That's not the way it is supposed to be. You WORK for your money. Not just show up and get paid what you think you should get because "it would not hurt them" and they must be "greedy"

No. There is a reason some people rise up. There is a reason that some people are smart enough and brave enough to take risks and start a business in the first place.

And there is always room for people who are smart and hard working to move up the chain.
Even at McDonalds and Walmart. There are people making a damn good living. But no...not the fry cook or the checkout girl.

thye can afford to pay more! they need you to take less so they can pay executives 10 million a year!