Ftc's Tro Denied (moviepass)

[WDjay]

Webmasters Direct continues to stand behind this product. We do not believe there is anything deceptive or unfair about it. The FTC's requested TRO was denied yesterday.

[BoyAlley]

It'll be interesting to see how this plays out....

[woj]

wtf is tro?

[Thomas N]

wtf is tro?

Temporary Restraining Order.

[WDjay]

wtf is tro?

Temporary restraining order

[OldSchoolJim]

[pocketkangaroo]

Webmasters Direct continues to stand behind this product. We do not believe there is anything deceptive or unfair about it. The FTC's requested TRO was denied yesterday.

Not to be a dick, but you are probably the only one who believes it isn't deceptive or unfair.

[WDjay]

Not to be a dick, but you are probably the only one who believes it isn't deceptive or unfair.

So far, me and one federal district judge.

[pocketkangaroo]

So far, me and one federal district judge.

He rejected a TRO which hardly is an endorsement of your product. It just mean he felt that it didn't cause irreperable damage to consumers at this time with the evidence presented. That is something difficult to prove when it comes to a computer that technically can be fixed.

The true vindication will come in court. Just take a look at the win-rate of the federal government in cases like this.

[WDjay]

anti drama bump

[RawAlex]

If the judge was on the same level as the senator that asked someone to "send him an internet", then you know how it got there.

I read the terms and conditions for the site, and wow...

Alex

[JMM]

And the spin begins.

TRO's are often denied. Judges are reluctant to close a business without due process.

I have seen your product. I have seen what the FTC can do. I'm rooting for the FTC.

[crockett]

And the spin begins.

TRO's are often denied. Judges are reluctant to close a business without due process.

I have seen your product. I have seen what the FTC can do. I'm rooting for the FTC.

I agree I hope they hammer these guys..

[Martin]

whats the deal with moviepass that makes it shady?

[Dirty F]

We do not believe there is anything deceptive or unfair about it.

[JD]

damn man. you must be a mind reader! I was thinking EXACTLY that same thing

[giftedtwisted]

Webmasters Direct continues to stand behind this product. We do not believe there is anything deceptive or unfair about it. The FTC's requested TRO was denied yesterday.

believe all you want

[Love Sex]

triple that

[MaDalton]

triple that

you can make that four

[Dirty F]

This guy is almost better than

[bbc3826]

WOW is all I can say

I'm speechless

[BoyAlley]

This guy is almost better than

Mine's bigger.

[Thee Johnclave]

It sure didn't take long for the FTC to come knocking on this "non-deceptive" product.

[Brujah]

Are you keeping them in your Exits while this is going on?

[Quick Buck]

I don't really understand the moviepass business model... maybe because I have a mac :P

Can't people just uninstall within a few days it if they don't want to pay?

Is moviepass accused of using drive by installs? Or is it just the reminder popups that everybody is upset about?

If people are purposely downloading the application, using it, and getting free videos from it I guess I don't have a ton of sympathy since thats what the entire concept of rebills is based on.

The FTC went after maxcash for using dialers and their TRO was granted immediately. So does that mean that maxcash was worse?

[Love Sex]

I don't really understand the moviepass business model... maybe because I have a mac :P

Can't people just uninstall within a few days it if they don't want to pay?

Its ransomware.

its advertised as FREE so you download to watch/ use it. But its really accepting a 3 day trial for software and if you dont remove it your forced into a contract. It pops until you pay for the removal.

Taken from there terms of service
2. HOW IT WORKS
BY PARTICIPATING IN THE MOVIEPASS MEDIAPIPE FREE TRIAL OFFER THE MEDIAPIPE SOFTWARE WILL ENABLE YOU TO ACCESS THE AVAILABLE CONTENT FOR THE PERIOD OF TIME SPECIFIED ON THE ADVERTISMENT YOU HAVE CLICKED THROUGH. IF YOU DO NOT EITHER CANCEL OR PROVIDE PAYMENT INFORMATION DURING THE TRIAL PERIOD OUR BILLING SOFTWARE WILL BE ENABLED UPON THE EXPIRATION OF YOUR TRIAL PERIOD. THE BILLING SOFTWARE WILL RUN ON YOUR COMPUTER, DISPLAYING POP-UP WINDOW REMINDERS THAT PROVIDE YOU WITH VARIOUS METHODS OF PAYMENT FOR THE ANNUAL LICENSE. THESE POP-UP WINDOWS WILL APPEAR MORE FREQUENTLY UNTIL YOU CHOOSE ONE OF THE PAYMENT OPTIONS AND PAY FOR THE LICENSE. THE BILLING SOFTWARE IS SOLELY DESIGNED TO PREVENT FRAUDULENT AND UNAUTHORIZED USE OF THE MEDIAPIPE SOFTWARE. IF YOU FAIL TO PAY OR CANCEL DURING THE TRIAL PERIOD, YOU ARE LEGALLY OBLIGATED TO PURCHASE AN ANNUAL LICENSE TO THE MEDIAPIPE SOFTWARE AT THE PRICE LISTED IN THE ADVERTISEMENT YOU CLICKED THROUGH TO INITIATE INSTALLATION.

[rowan]

IF YOU FAIL TO PAY OR CANCEL DURING THE TRIAL PERIOD, YOU ARE LEGALLY OBLIGATED TO PURCHASE AN ANNUAL LICENSE TO THE MEDIAPIPE SOFTWARE AT THE PRICE LISTED IN THE ADVERTISEMENT YOU CLICKED THROUGH TO INITIATE INSTALLATION.

First time I've ever heard of a trial that forces you to buy an annual license!

[baddog]

So far, me and one federal district judge.

If you think the denial of a TRO means the judge has already made up his mind that you are clean you are nuts.

He is just letting a jury decide. And a jury is going to hang you guys.

[marketsmart]

i am all about free markets, creative ideas, inventive business models.... i do think that moviepass is deceptive at the least... sorry moviepass but you will lose this case in court...

the ftc has a good track record of only taking on cases they can win... the tro rejection doesnt mean much...

i wish you the best of luck but i wouldnt be buying any new cars or houses if i were you....

[spacedog]

I can't believe you fly that banner trying to score affiliates,,,,

Who want's your measly 50 cents...

Pretty cheap if you ask me,, you collect nearly 200 bucks off the installs, but you only pay 50 cents to the webmaster..


Shit, I see thousands of programs that pay Over 50 %, you on the other hand like 1/1000th of a percent.. (ok, I'm not doing the math)



Make it $99 per install & I will send you 1/2 million installs per month

[rowan]

I can't believe you fly that banner trying to score affiliates,,,,

Who want's your measly 50 cents...

Pretty cheap if you ask me,, you collect nearly 200 bucks off the installs, but you only pay 50 cents to the webmaster..


Shit, I see thousands of programs that pay Over 50 %, you on the other hand like 1/1000th of a percent.. (ok, I'm not doing the math)



Make it $99 per install & I will send you 1/2 million installs per month

It's all about the money, isn't it...

[Quick Buck]

I'm not by any means defending them, but I took a completely clean ghosted machine and ran a test on it and I don't quite get the upset over it.

Here are the steps I went through (along with screenshots):
1) I download the installer
http://ww2.quickbuck.com/moviepass/step1.png

2) I run it and it shows me their terms in a browser
http://ww2.quickbuck.com/moviepass/step2.png

3) I agree to the terms and start watching movies
http://ww2.quickbuck.com/moviepass/step4.png

4) I decide to cancel and follow the link
http://ww2.quickbuck.com/moviepass/step5.png

5) I click once more to complete the cancellation process
http://ww2.quickbuck.com/moviepass/step6.png

6) It's cancelled.
http://ww2.quickbuck.com/moviepass/step7.png

7) Their uninstaller didn't kill the license manager that was running, but after a bit of surfing I saw no ads, I checked a bunch of popular sites and saw no affiliate codes. So I killed it in ctrl-alt-del and then did an add/remove from my program files and there is no trace of it left on my system.

Conclusion
To download the app I had to purposely run it, and then seperately agree to ther terms which were pretty clear. In huge letters it says that if I don't cancel within 3 days I have to pay.

Cancelling my membership took a visit to a web page and two clicks to cancel.

It took me more work to download, install, agree to terms & watch the movie than to cancel the membership.

I guess if you didn't bother to even read the huge "urgent reminder" (see step 2) then it might not make sense, but it seemed more clearly disclosed than even the average cross sale imho.

Maybe I'll start seeing popups soon, but thats my report for now. Will return with more if I have any.

[Love Sex]

7) Their uninstaller didn't kill the license manager that was running, but after a bit of surfing I saw no ads, I checked a bunch of popular sites and saw no affiliate codes. So I killed it in ctrl-alt-del and then did an add/remove from my program files and there is no trace of it left on my system.

.

would you try it again without removing the license manager manually to see see what happens then.

Im doing some research on it check out this http://www.consumeraffairs.com/enter...moviepass.html

[KrisKross]

Let it run on your system past the 3 day trial and then watch what happens.

[Due]

I'm not saying I agree or disagree with their promotion methods.
But if they really where forcing people to spend $100 or something on a product they didnt want, wouldnt they have been eaten by Visa / Mastercard for chargebacks long before the FTC even noticed their product?

[Rui]

And the spin begins.

TRO's are often denied. Judges are reluctant to close a business without due process.

I have seen your product. I have seen what the FTC can do. I'm rooting for the FTC.

You can say that again...

Hope the FTC nails not only the company but the personal assets of those that profitted with such shady dealings

[Theo]

I'm not saying I agree or disagree with their promotion methods.
But if they really where forcing people to spend $100 or something on a product they didnt want, wouldnt they have been eaten by Visa / Mastercard for chargebacks long before the FTC even noticed their product?

not necessarily,this is a too general assumption to make. They could process a ton of legit transactions under the same merc.account and balance the CBs.

[Manowar]

mad drama yo

[rowan]

7) Their uninstaller didn't kill the license manager that was running, but after a bit of surfing I saw no ads, I checked a bunch of popular sites and saw no affiliate codes. So I killed it in ctrl-alt-del and then did an add/remove from my program files and there is no trace of it left on my system.

The only issue I have with your test is this step. Only a relatively small percentage of people who install the software would know how to do this. If you have the time, try again and omit this step. I'd be interested to see if anything [else] happens in the long run...

I can see a direct discrepancy between the T&C that Love Sex posted:

IF YOU FAIL TO PAY OR CANCEL DURING THE TRIAL PERIOD, YOU ARE LEGALLY OBLIGATED TO PURCHASE AN ANNUAL LICENSE TO THE MEDIAPIPE SOFTWARE AT THE PRICE LISTED IN THE ADVERTISEMENT YOU CLICKED THROUGH TO INITIATE INSTALLATION.

and the warning page:

http://ww2.quickbuck.com/moviepass/step2.png

The former says very clearly that if you cancel you're still obligated to pay.

[Dirty F]

I installed it a while back and halfway the install i got one virus warning after the other so i uninstalled it right away. It took me AGES to get rid of the shit that stayed on my puter. Everytime when i rebooted i got warnings and other shit telling me to install this and that.

[Dirty F]

Once again, as mentioned before, they redirect all firefox users to their own sponsors (so the affiliate loses 25% of their traffic to these thieves) because they can't exploit ff browser. I think that says enough.

[jayeff]

Hope the FTC nails not only the company but the personal assets of those that profitted with such shady dealings

That would be a start. What would be even better is if the FTC pulled in everyone who was sending traffic too MP. They were profiting too and likely responsible for most of the surfers who ever found the site.

[Eservices2k3]

Webmasters Direct continues to stand behind this product. We do not believe there is anything deceptive or unfair about it. The FTC's requested TRO was denied yesterday.

Are you aware of the FTC's track record? There is no beating the FTC. Unless of course you consider spending hundreds of thousands of dollars for lawyers and a settlement fee a victory. Afterwards, your business model will have to change, and you'll be monitored closely both financially and morally.

Lose-lose situation. The best advice I can give you is to go buy an industrial size tube of lube.

[rowan]

I can see a direct discrepancy between the T&C that Love Sex posted:

IF YOU FAIL TO PAY OR CANCEL DURING THE TRIAL PERIOD, YOU ARE LEGALLY OBLIGATED TO PURCHASE AN ANNUAL LICENSE TO THE MEDIAPIPE SOFTWARE AT THE PRICE LISTED IN THE ADVERTISEMENT YOU CLICKED THROUGH TO INITIATE INSTALLATION.

and the warning page:

http://ww2.quickbuck.com/moviepass/step2.png

The former says very clearly that if you cancel you're still obligated to pay.

Actually looking at it again the meaning is ambiguous. I presume it's meant to mean:

If during the trial period, you fail to pay or fail to cancel, you are legally obligated...[...]

That sentence in their T&C needs to be rewritten.

[Scootermuze]

The former says very clearly that if you cancel you're still obligated to pay.

Hmm.. that reminds me of Acacia..
If you sign the contract, then we lose the case and have no trademark authority, you still have to pay us..

or to that affect...

[SteveLightspeed]

I've always said, someone needs to make a sponsor program using the name "bury-it-in-the-terms-and-conditions.com"

There is so much money to be made honestly on the net, why does anyone feel like they have to play all these bullshit games? It hurts the whole industry.

Steve Lightspeed